Brutalist Architecture Discussion Thread!

[gascooker 4]

Chartsengrafs - How do you think the Shefield Estate could be implemented in-game, given its size? One of the features that i was thinking about in this kind of architecture is is modularity - it could make for some interesting growth patterns in game, whereby the game engine can create whole new housing estate configurations susing some bascic modular parts.

[dolphin66 5]

Once this thread is put into BSC forums...this will be a great thread to follow...good luck all

[gascooker 4]

Tonks - do you consider Fareham shopping Mall to be brutalist? its original incarnation may have been but i have only known it after numerous post-modern facelifts... do you have any pics of it pre-facelift (I know its first face lift was during the 1980s, the facelift you talk of if very recent, ie last couple of years)

We are trying our best Dolphin, i hope it gets moved soon.... 

[Sabretooth78 808]

Date: 6/23/2005 2:50:40 AM Author: masher

Like...how come no one has mentioned habitat 67?...

It's ugly but at least interesting....

quote>

 

Holy Carp!!

 

That's the most discombobulated looking piece of _ that I think I've ever seen!

[gascooker 4]

What's interesting about this building sargeantcm is how organic it sort of looks, even though its very Brutal.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Unfortunatly i dont have any pictures of the old one (in fact i dont have any of the new one) allthough a good example of the modernist style in fareham would have to be the civic center, the concrete midrise just off the high street. Anyway, your a portsmouth lad originally, perhaps you will know what i mean about the Mile End Road tenement in Portsmouth, you know, the one that follows the ferry port and the North end of Portsmouth Dockyard. It has always interested me, as like a 'Horizontal Skyscraper'.

[gascooker 4]

Yes - i know where you mean Tonks - I studied that for my degree in Architecture, many moons ago -

The fareham civic centre, is actually a realy nice building, i think - although its not as brutal as it could be, a few traces of modernist proportions (and yes they did use a lot of classical proportions believe it or not) are pleassing to the eye... But like as discussed earlier, the building is well maintained - so its fate is sealed. Brutalist buildings which are not maintained are bound to become ugly and disliked...

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Fareham Civic Center has actually been one i have wanted to do for quite a while now, next time in fareham i will try and remember my camera.

[Emozo 0]

if anyone needs inspiration for a brutalist highrise to BAT(as if there wasnt already enough) i think this should be considered,(derwent tower in gateshead/newcastle)


Derwent Tower known locally as The Rocket, was built in 1969 by Pittender A.I.G.H. on the site of Clavering Avenue and East Ravensworth Road. * It is 280 feet high and is the tallest building on Tyneside. It has 420 steps and two lifts.

The architect was Owen Luder who also designed the notorious multi-story car park in Gateshead. The design is unique in Britain. Only one other of this design was built in Europe.

There are 29 floors with a total of 196 flats and is built in the shape of a cog wheel with five risers. Each riser has its own water supply contained in one of the five tanks situated in the glazed area between the tenth and eleventh floor. Most blocks have these on the roof.

The base of the building was originally a 150 space car park. This is now used as storage for Gateshead Council. Owing to the history of flooding from the The River Team (or Gut as it has always been known locally) the building is based on a sunken ring of concrete. This forms a further basement which was designed to hold large pumps which are used when required.

The Tower has six flats on each floor, two-bed roomed flats to the tenth floor and one -bed roomed flats from the eleventh to twenty ninth floors. It has spectacular views from the top floors.

The adjacent Maisonettes were once linked to The Rocket. This walk way was removed when the flat roof was changed to the present design.



this is the best picture i could find on the internet, if anyone is interested ill try to get out and take a better one. i think this is a really good example of how well brutalism can work when thought goes into the design, not sure what its like to live in tho.

Quote and pic from
http://www.thenortheast.com/

[gascooker 4]

this is an intersting design - in a way its quite functional and modernist in that it would functionally provide a lot of light to each component flat. Whats at the base?

[Chartsengrafs 0]

gascooker:  I have also given some thought to Park Hill and how it could be implemented in game, and I too figured that a modular system would probably be the best solution.  The only difficulty with that is that Park Hill is built on a sloping site, and every story (perhaps bar the 13th), has direct access to the ground at some point.  Of course, a modular building system based on Park Hill would be ideal for the game, because I think we all make fictional towns and cities in-game anyway.

 

It's interesting that you mention Brutalist buildings not being maintained properly, causing them to become ugly and disliked.  I think that was one of the biggest downfalls of the style - the use of raw concrete for exterior surfaces leads to weathering, which is severely detrimental to the appearance of the building when it is not cleaned and maintained.

[Exhagaga 0]

I really like brutalist architecture, i live in an almost brutalist house(lotsa concrete, little carpet or plasterboard or wood or...much else.) I really like Habitat 67 so i was wondering if there's a BATed version yet, or at least a similar style. Any links to some would be greatly appreciated

[gascooker 4]

In the context of the game, does anyone think that there are too few examples of RL  Brutalist buildings to merit being growables? ie is Brutalism in SC4 a landmark or reward one-off scenario?

If you take habitat 67, is it too unique for it to grow more than once across your cities?

[rp2005 165]

Date: 6/24/2005 9:51:07 PM Author: gascooker In the context of the game, does anyone think that there are too few examples of RL  Brutalist buildings to merit being 'growables'? ie is Brutalism in SC4 a landmark or reward 'one-off' scenario? If you take habitat 67, is it too unique for it to grow more than once across your cities?

quote>

I don't think you can afford to think about he RL frequency too much.  Many of the existing growables are buildings that in RL are one-offs.  You have to bear in mind that given brutalism's popularity as an architectural style, there are far fewer examples in RL than there should be.  As any growables would be optional, there's no reason for habitat 67 to be treated any differently from any similar sized residential block.

 

 

[GaryReggae 80]

Charsengrafs: The Shakespeare and Lauderdale towers in The Barbican Centre are currently the tallest residential buildings in the UK, they are 403 feet with 43 storeys!!! After that is the slightly lower Cromwell Tower, also in The Barbican. I think the Red Road towers were the highest in Europe at their time of construction (the 1960s) but when The Barbican was constructed in the 1970s, it claimed the title of the UK's tallest residential building.

Fareham Civic Centre would be a good building to BAT.



I've found another picture of the Derwent Tower, it was designed by Owen Luder, the architect responsible for The Tricorn!!!


There is info about it and Owen Luders other buildings here

Here's another Brutalist tower block I've found a photo of, this one's in Gosport:

[deadwoods 542]

Wow, I think I've picked up more Architectural knowledge in the last few days on this thread than I have in ages. All these photo's make me think much of Canberra is brutalist. There is tons of bare concrete, basic structure stuff.

I wonder how some of FLW's work ties into this. He experimented a lot with raw concrete, which was very much the new material in the early parts of the 20th century. However his work was rarely brutal. There was always an attention to detail and proportions to make the buildings suit their landscape. One of my favourites is the Unity Temple in Oak Park. A stark bare concrete facade and simple geometric shapes, but the detail is exuisite.

[p2h5 3]

Has this been mentioned?  But the Barbican Centre in London, which was built on a massive derrelict site, and contains high value apartments, a library and massive perfomring arts centre.  It is a true marvel of 70s town planning, as all the pedestrian walk ways are raised up, emphasis is on open spaces and gardens, and all the flats have underfloor heating, and the garbage is collected by a Garchey system, one of the few remaining in the world, where waste is flushed down the sink, into large tanks, where it is then collected by a tanker and disposed of.

 

Gardens for the residents, set into the lake (which is frozen in this picture)

 

 

There are three tower blocks, all about 40 floors tall, and they are the tallest residental towers in Europe.  One of the penthouses has a terrace which was orignally specified to be large enough for the owner to land his harrier jump jet on.  The rest of the apartments are in lower blocks, which are mainly elevated above the ground:

 

 

 

http://www.barbicanliving.co.uk/images/brochures/sketchandrewes.jpg'>http://www.barbicanliving.co.uk/images/brochures/sketchandrewes.jpg width=698 border=0>

 

There is a very interesting website, http://www.barbicanliving.co.uk , which has loads more images, and more original advertising material and information on the design and exact specification of the apartments, as well as pratical informaton for residents.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

I checked the Barbican Site, very interesting (i was on there for an hour), Anyway, i started looking for similar sites dedicated to the tricorn and i discovered that the Tricorn had the Worlds First Virgin Music Store, a little bit of Tricorn History there.

[GaryReggae 80]

Grerat Barbican site!!!

Here are some sites about The Tricorn:

http://www.braggs1.fsnet.co.uk/50s/architecture/reflections.htm

http://www.rmaz.co.uk/tricorn.html

http://www.vodex.me.uk/portsmouth/tricorn.php

http://www.tricorn.doughnut.org.uk/

http://www.arthurflowers.co.uk/ruthberg/tricorn.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southampton/webcams/tricorn.shtml

http://www.garfnet.org.uk/pictures/index.htm?20030629.htm

http://www.timmcginley.com/Tricorn.html

This one is about Brutalism in general but it's very interesting:

http://www.braggs1.fsnet.co.uk/50s/architecture/concrete.htm

[Chartsengrafs 0]

Date: 6/24/2005 9:51:07 PM Author: gascooker

In the context of the game, does anyone think that there are too few examples of RL Brutalist buildings to merit being 'growables'? ie is Brutalism in SC4 a landmark or reward 'one-off' scenario? If you take habitat 67, is it too unique for it to grow more than once across your cities?

Many of the larger structures would be more suitable as landmarks or rewards, but I think some would work well as growable lots.  Using a modular system, as we discussed, would allow large estates like Park Hill to grow on high density residential zones.  something in the style of Alexandra Road might be suitable for medium density zones, and those mushroom-houses (I think they're great!), would be an interesting alternative for low density zones.

 

Exhagaga:  I notice Alex there in your avatar - the London estate that 'A Clockwork Orange' was filmed on is another great example of Brutalism.  The name of it escapes me at the moment, but if I find it I'll try to post some pictures.

 

GaryReggae:  Thanks for clearing up the 'tallest towers' issue!  I didn't realise that the Shakespeare and Lauderdale Towers and the Barbican were built as recently as they were.

[wallasey 8]

Well I would just like to say that this is a fantastic thread and long may it continue!

Anyhoos, I thourght that you would like some scouse brutalism, after all Liverpool was where the first ever munciple flats were built in the UK way back in 1869! The following 60's flats are from  here .

 

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/pastliverpool/galleries/housing/gallery/flats/images/large/n92.jpg align=baseline>

Hartisbourne Flats in Childwall

 

http://www.mersey-gateway.org/pastliverpool/galleries/housing/gallery/flats/images/large/n96.jpg align=baseline>

Netherfiled Road South. These flats overlooked the docks, the river Mersey and on a clear day, North Wales. They were demolished some time ago and the site is now parkland.

 

Well I hope this is a small insight into two of Liverpool's now demolished brutalist flats and recently another two have been buldozed aswell!

 

PS both pictures are from the site linked and are porvided by Merseyside Archives and Liverpool Central Library

[brancra 1,114]

Brutalism is to architecture what heavy metal is to music- severe, unrestrained and having a few loyal followers.  The style was popular for civic buildings constructed in the 1960s and 1970s in the United States (ex. Hennepin County Courthouse (1977) in Minneapolis), but it never caught on the same way as it did in Europe. *Thank goodness*[:0]

[Chartsengrafs 0]

Date: 6/25/2005 11:27:47 AM Author: brancra

Brutalism is to architecture what heavy metal is to music- severe, unrestrained and having a few loyal followers.

That's a pretty good way of putting it! 

 

I remembered the name of the estate that 'A Clockwork Orange' was filmed on:  Thamesmead Estate, in the London Borough of Bexley.

 

Here are some photos:

 

Under construction:

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-under-construction-00699-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-under-construction-00707-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/southmere-lake-00704-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-under-construction-00697-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

Landscaping and finishing touches:

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-under-construction-00708-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-00710-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-00712-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

The completed estate:

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/showpiece-00705-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/thamesmead-from-maplin-house-00700-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/coralline-walk-00702-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/southmere-lake-00709-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

This last one may seem familiar:

 

http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/images/bexley/thamesmead/southmere-lake-00711-350.jpg align=baseline>

 

All of the images above are from here .

[Odainsaker 2,134]

Cool thread, an awesome opportunity to show off some images of unique buildings from Japan with their own special Brutalist treatment.

 

We will begin with a favorite of mine, the Yamanashi Press and Broadcasting Center, from the city of Kofu.  This puppy by Kenzo Tange was finished in 1967, and we can clearly distiguish the service cores supporting modular spaces bridging between them, all arrayed to give the impression that the structure can be modularly expanded in any direction.  In truth, this is particularly Structuralist (the first in fact of this offshoot style), but the overall impression is the same.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/yamanashi1.jpg align=baseline>

 

What really makes it cool is the setting amidst the low-rise, tile-roofed buildings and the mountainous background.  What a bold landmark!  Perhaps it is just me, but I always want to think of this place as the command headquarters in some 1970s Japanese sci-fi series.  Am I the only one, can you not see the giant robots?  Does anyone else remember Ultraman and Dynaman?  Today, the building is now the Yamanashi Culture Hall.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/yamanashi21.jpg align=baseline>

 

Makes me think of server bays in a computer center, but then Tange did also design Singapore's giant calculator building.  It's interesting to see how such human affectations as vertical banner signs, colorful flags, and rooftop string decorations are overpowered by the sheer sculptural might of the concrete structure.  The interior originally included broadcasting studios and printing works, and now hold exhibition spaces, hence, there are fewer opportunities for windows, allowing for more play between the open spaces and the bulky masses.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/yamanashi3.jpg align=baseline>

 

Would make a spectacular BAT!

 

Thinking of contrasting settings, here is another Tange creation from 1960, the Kurashiki Town Hall, a new civic centerpiece of a post-war industrial boomtown.  Reinforced concrete given that special Japanese treatment recalling the simplicity and modularity of traditional Japanese wooden structures to keep it at a relatively human scale.  But look at the context, the area included a historic district with traditional whitewashed walls and tile-roofed houses.  Audacious to the point of alien (why not a 2001 black monolith instead?), though in a way, it kinda works.  Today, the building has been refurbished into the Kurashiki City Art Museum.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/kurashiki1.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/kurashiki2.jpg align=baseline>

 

Black and white photographs can be so misleading with these buildings when pristine, as it plays into their sculptural strengths.  Current color photos of the Kurashiki City Art Museum show the concrete facade screens now have a much more weathered and discolored look.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/kurashiki3.jpg align=baseline>

 

Brutalism in Japan was contemporaneous with another movement, the Japanese Metabolist Movement, which sought to adapt machine technology and mass production to buildings in ways inspired by organic growth systems.  Trees, stems and leaves, skeletons, and biological cells are popular references, but all share a theme of generalized central megastructure from which individual units grow or cluster, and even if need be, are shed and regrown anew following the cycles of inhabitation.

 

The best example of this is Kisho Kurokawa's truly funky Nakagin Capsule Tower of 1972, the world's first full-fledged capsule building.  This Tokyo landmark boasts two central service towers, onto which individual habitation capsules are attached.  These prefabricated capsules contain the basic necessities a working Tokyoite would need, from built-in beds and showers to built-in computer and media consoles, all within a very compact 2.5m x 4m space (the Space Race was at its height during this time).  The capsules remain independantly detachable, so that different configurations can theoretically be made to the building's capsule clusters over time in response to changes in social and economic living patterns.  The flaw in Metabolism is that those changes to the capsule arrangements will never occur, as it makes no economic sense for owners to bring in heavy cranes to pluck off unleased capsules or rearrange them every season.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/nakagin1.jpg align=baseline> http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/nakagin2.jpg align=baseline>

 

I always wondered what living inside a tumble dryer was like!

 

Arata Isozaki took the capsule tower a step further with his conceptual City in the Sky, visualizing potential forests of these tree-like megastructures and their leaf-like living capsules.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/isozakicluster.jpg align=baseline>

 

Oh, Brave New World, indeed!

 

Over time, Metabolism grew away from the rough-hewn concrete look in favor of steel gantry megastructures and the machine techo-aesthetic.  Two other cool transitional towers, though I have yet to find any online images (and my paper copies are copies of copies) are Yoji Watanabe's Sky Building No. 3 and Sky Building No. 5, both built in Tokyo in 1970 and 1971.  Though both have the heavy concrete prefabricated feel of Brutalism, both were deliberately given the complicated techo-look of navy battleship superstructures.  The former naval lieutenant/modern architect was having too much fun for any Modernist to tolerate.

 

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Hey, im not sure if any of you ever played Transport Tycoon but this building was in it!

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/nakagin1.jpg align=baseline>

Anyway, as for Gascookers Modular idea, i like the idea yes. But how could we do it, Ploppables are out of the question as we all know (allthough if we could get the secret sorted out to Ploppable RCI's it would be great)/

 

 

[Emozo 0]

heres an idea of how all this capsule stuff could be implimented, i think it will be good if the capsules were randomly placed in the buildings skelaton so as the city grew so did the buildings. for example when a building is spawned in its lot by the simulator it is just a collection of supports (skelaton) then as demand grew and changed we could see different combinations of capsules appearing so that almost every duilding would be unique. by BATing say, 10 different modules, the simulator could place them randomly on the building. i think the best way for this to happen is to make the buildings with their own program (so the game code need not be changed) which decides how the should look and what properties they should have depending on demand with their given options.

its a bit complicated and im not sure if this could work but it would be very interesting if it could

[rp2005 165]

I love those japanese buildings - the capsule tower is a great concept and would make a great BAT.  As for the concept City in the Sky, I hope the SimMars people are looking in ...

 

This is the Bradford and Bingley building that I mentioned earlier in the thread:

 

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/BradBing01.jpg align=baseline>

 

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing02.jpg align=baseline>

 

And some detail:

 

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing03.jpg align=baseline>

 

And finally:

 

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing04.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

[toxicpiano 125]

<---Edited for excessive rudeness--->

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 6/25/2005 2:49:16 PM Author: toxicpiano

<---Edited for excessive rudeness--->

 Unfortunatly your post was not helpfull and can actually be considered racist, if you dont agree with this type of architecture, post a mature reply stating your reasons, that was just pure flaming.

[Emozo 0]

<Edited>