New Urbanism In SC4

[rdu-steve 0]

I make neighborhoods off the main roads.  These neighborhoods have about 50 R lots and 3-6 C.  The C should be placed where the neighborhood street attaches to the main roads, or next to the local MT stops.  I've been thinking of increasing the C:R ratio to help with all the traffic.  We'll see.....

[berkthomas 0]

I employ these concept regularly, and they do work.  I generally make my "towns" the size of the original elementary school diameter.  I space these apart and place Industry in between (on the outskirts of town) in a buffer zone of undeveloped trees.  the commercial is the placed on the connecting roads.

 

This works great and they can be linked together to further decrease commute times.

[MayorVieira 1]

The big problem is, sims don't seem to like walking.

[berkthomas 0]

Keeping zones withing "walking distance" means that they would have a VERY short drive if they choose to do that.  Also, they will walk a short ways to Mass Transit. 

 

This setup really is quite efficient.  The only thing you need to keep an eye on is that each sub-city area has everything it needs close by.  If the sims cannot find a place to work in their area it can really create a commuting nightmare to get to another area.  Balance is the key here.

[Shoe 2]

Yes, it would be nice if Sims would walk up to 25 tiles(or 1/4 mile in real life). This seems reasonable and in many of the New Urbanist things I've read about they try to build the neighborhoods in a 1/4 mile radius around a park or central area. That way it will be about a 5 minute walk for most people in the neighborhood to get to the center, where they could find restaurants, recreation, and mass transit stations.

Right now I think Sims only walk 5 tiles.

[digitalurbanity 0]

I build tight grids with every third or so intersection with a rotary. each neighborhood i build i think of as a "node" with its own services and transit stations, connected to other nodes around the city center. the only problem is with the pathfinding engine of course is that the sims dont follow the routes you plan in your head most of the time, funneling traffic down side streets etc.
It's also hard to maintain high densities of single family homes without setting each one historical which is darn tedious.

[Meg 368]

I'm familiar with several neighborhoods around Arlington, Virginia that were designed to be part of the New Urbanism.  Most of them involve buildings that have stores on the first floor or two and apartments or condos on the upper floors with parking garages underneath.

I find this concept to be unsettling.  I just don

[defacto_junior 0]

I agree with you SkiGeek. Did you know that only less than 20 percent of the Earth is populated by mankind? (even less i think). We have all the space we need in the world and New Urbanism is only a concept that highlights isolationism, social divisions, and antisocialism. People living in the same neighborhood will belong to the same social class, work in the same places, go to the same places, and won't hardly care about the world outside their own community. This will be because all their needs will be fulfilled inside their own neighborhood.

 

Although it would considerably reduce commute time thus making the game a lot easier

[Meg 368]

Well, reducing commute time in the real world is a good goal, too. 

 

Years ago, I bought a townhouse.  At the time, it was 45 minutes away from my office.   When I sold the house 8 years later, it was 90 minutes away from the office.  Neither building moved; that was just due to traffic.

 

I honestly believe that traffic contributed to my decision to take early retirement.  I just couldn't take spending 3 hours a day on the road anymore.  I moved briefly to a place closer to work.  While it had a great view (see the thread on real life landmarks), that area was far too crowded for my tastes.

 

I'm lucky; I could take the early retirement and say the heck with the whole thing.  But most people are still working, faced with the choice of a long commute or unpleasant living conditions.  Not good.

[mcwesty2000 0]

I have been using this idea also, i have named areas, all fairly distinct and unique, with their own neighbourhood centres with library and shops, and most with there own primary (elementary) schools (or private schools). The concept works brilliantly, you have each neighbourhood linked to each other using distributor roads, highways or dual carrageways. A main spine road runs through each neighbourhood which in turn leads to the cul-de-sacs, and streets. This concept i borrowed from the 'New Towns' idea.
Industry is separate, and there is a main town centre for primary shops and offices.

However the new concept in british planning is to create fairly high density mixed use schemes, schemes that are sustainable or schemes that don't require cars, people use public transport or walk instead. There is a new scheme in Edinburgh like this. Do a search for the "Quartermile,Edinburgh" project at the former royal infirmary site.

[ckwong 0]

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On 10/20/2003 10:34:31 AM Shoe wrote:

Yes, it would be nice if Sims would walk up to 25 tiles(or 1/4 mile in real life). This seems reasonable and in many of the New Urbanist things I've read about they try to build the neighborhoods in a 1/4 mile radius around a park or central area. That way it will be about a 5 minute walk for most people in the neighborhood to get to the center, where they could find restaurants, recreation, and mass transit stations.

Right now I think Sims only walk 5 tiles. ----------------

Try increasing the walk speed to, say, about 14 from current 3.5 by modding the Simcity_1.dat file. I have tried it and Sims would walk a more realistic 20+ tiles. Bus/mass transit stations do not need to be placed so near to each other anymore, get used more often, reducing cars and jams. For more info on how to mod, check out the modding section of the forum.

[Shoe 2]

I would have to disagree with Defacto. The suburban sprawl type growth creates more isolation than New Urbanism. Since everything is so spread out, people is sprawl areas use a car to get everywhere, which isolated them from everyone else who is in a car. In the small, New Urbanist neighborhoods, people see eachother as they pass by in the streets, there is more of a sense of community. And New Urbanism doesn't mean that there arent low density houses with lawns, because there are. It's more of a mixed zoning.

[ApathyNinja 17]

Mixed-use buildings in SC4 would go a long way towards this ideal. That'd be something I'd like to see if the Modd Squad can cook up: Buildings that have R$$ and CS$$ jobs in a way that people can't live and work in the same building entirely.

I'm gonna have to try out this concept next time I'm playing, it sounds interesting.

[Skippydam73 0]

Here out in the suburbs of Portland Oregon there is a project that is going to be actually similiar to what you have been talking about. Its about 1600 acres of land that will transformed into different housing and a little center for shopping. Its not going to be like a mall type in there but more of your retail services. There is another project out here called Orenco Station that has been nationally recognized for creating a similiar neighborhood. They have the retail services on the ground floor with people living above. Just to the outside of that they have the neighboorhood of houses all close together. The only bad thing thats happening here is you do not have a big lot, meaning a very small patch of lawn. But they do put in a nice size park in the middle. Its difficult for someone like me who grew up in the country and now moving to our second home on a 5000 sq ft lot. There are trade offs between the two. Its not for everyone though. The reason for this type of approach though is to conserve rich farmland and control city sprawl. Until we are able to zone for mixed buildings, its going to be somewhat difficult to simulate the real life version.

For any that are interested, here is the link for Orenco Station.

www.orencostation.com

[+Guest]

Oh, god! Don't start me off on prefab housing developement. Its taking over!

[ckwong 0]

----------------

On 10/21/2003 3:38:02 AM ATPjohn wrote:

Oh, god! Don't start me off on prefab housing developement. Its taking over!----------------

It beats being "squatter"

[elerium 0]

Back to SimCity talk, while it's not exactly urbanism (more like "ruralism"), I've recently been having the most fun designing pedestrian-heavy farming/rural towns. Instead of having some res grids a distance away from some farm grids, I just zone some res right next to/across from the farmhouses that spring up. It's actually been really successful, and it looks pretty cool on a larger scale too.

 

It's intuitive, but I discovered you can force citizens to walk using one-way streets. It's keeps commute times low for rest of the town. Here's an example:

 

 

With Rush Hour then, I think it may be possible to make some larger city designs with one way's that separate the smaller neighborhoods you speak of from one another but would still allow freight to leave or firefighters/some outside commuters to enter.

 

When dealing with separated communities, it's important to zone slowly to see if you've got the right proportion of com/res/ind, you can't trust the RCI demand bars, even the detailed ones, to tell you what your small community needs.

[elerium 0]

Here's another goofy example of restrictive trafficking:

 

 

Notice that's the query for the Evening commute. In actuality, in the mornings they all (200 or so) drove to work! So when their day ends, they park at the train station, ride to their part of town, and walk (much more than 5 tiles) home. Their cars magically are home the next morning. So SimCity isn't flawless in it's simulation.

 

I don't have a screenshot of it, but Sims are willing to walk even farther than this if it's heading home. When I replace the train stations with parking garages, they do the same thing, but walk that long road distance by the wind generators.

 

Because walking speeds are so slow, for both of these cases the actual commute time wasn't good at all (but still managable, something like 50-70 mintues instead of under 30 using normal roads), but it's interesting to play with.

[mcwesty2000 0]

QUARTERMILE, EDINBURGH

The joint venture between Bank of Scotland, Kilmartin Property Group and Taylor Woodrow - named Quartermile Edinburgh - is to create a flagship project, not just in Scotland, but the UK.

The masterplan proposals are set to transform the site into a vibrant residential and business community, which connects and integrates with the surrounding area, marrying the old and new of Edinburgh.

On a parallel level, a fusion of old and new architecture will create an inclusive environment. As we are faced with the challenge of regenerating one of the most important parts of the city centre, there is a strong awareness of the structural, historic and architectural importance of some of the old hospital buildings.

Our involvement in the project is the conversion and redevelopment of the two Sidney Mitchell medical wards in the centre of the site to a mixed-use retail, office and public concourse area. It is a key centrepiece to the masterplan linking to the cultural centre of the scheme, and provides and exciting blend of contemporary modern architecture and restoration.

We are very pleased to be working with Foster & Partners, Richard Murphy and Page & Park on this

[+Guest]

(Off topic slightly) How the hell did you get the planning for that? In the Westcountry you can't move your ass without some liberals protesting and going on strike.

Call me.... whatever you want, I find the idea of New Urbanism (you were the informants, never heard of it before) a little creepy. I get the image of people walking round like the kids from Village of the Damned, or the surreality of the housing developement in Lawn Dogs.

[mcwesty2000 0]

How do u get planning for what??

[+Guest]

Sorry, it was a proposal (2 posts up - Edinburgh)

[mcwesty2000 0]

The NHS vacated the old hospital, and moved to the new one, so Edinburgh City Council decided to go for a new innovative scheme to create a new mixed use community scheme. It would have gone through central government for planning permission. Planning in the UK is a little different from US planning.

[mentarman 14]

New Urbanism seems to me to be a way to get the convenience and community and bustling street life of Old Urbanism (ie, cities) in the suburban areas where people have fled the real and perceived problems of cities to live in blandness and conformity. As such, it is slightly better than suburban sprawl development, but still pales in comparison to just living in an older urban center -- for example, working to revitalize a neighborhood that already has much of the infrastructure in place. But that's just me.

[mcwesty2000 0]

The problem is Edinburgh has a greenbelt around it which means that they cant build any new developments on the outskirts, so re-using old sites is the only way to keep up with the high demand for housing, offices & shops.

[+Guest]

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you were talking about a whole, like, extension of the city (and didn't realise it was you who posted it in the first place ), and when I say Westcountry, I mean Devon because I can't read and I can't write but I come from the Westcountry and I can drive a tractor.

[Meg 368]

----------------

On 10/21/2003 6:55:57 AM mentarman wrote:

New Urbanism seems to me to be a way to get the convenience and community and bustling street life of Old Urbanism (ie, cities) in the suburban areas where people have fled the real and perceived problems of cities to live in blandness and conformity. As such, it is slightly better than suburban sprawl development, but still pales in comparison to just living in an older urban center -- for example, working to revitalize a neighborhood that already has much of the infrastructure in place. But that's just me.

----------------

Yes, it's definitely a matter of personal opinion.  One person's "blandness and conformity" is another's "peace and quiet".  To each his/her own.  Fortunately, many of us live in places where, to some degree, we get to chose.

If anyone is interested, here are links to websites that explain New Urbanism and it's cousin, Smart Growth.

http://www.cnu.org/about/index.cfm

http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

New Urbanism is an interesting concept, I think.  It kind of goes back to the past, before the 1950s where every town had everything you needed.

 

Suburban sprawl has gone a little far in a lot of areas.  I'll use the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, PA area as an example, where I live.

 

There's a lot of new development in the Wilkes-Barre area in many places.  It's nice to have new places, new businesses, but they're all outside of the downtown area, which is in distress.  Businesses downtown either shut down or relocated to the outskirts.  My area is now consisting more of strip malls, industrial parks, and suburban residential communities.  Plans to revitalize downtown areas are in the works, but it could be too little, too late.

 

Scranton has its own problems.  While Scranton made a smart move by placing a major shopping mall downtown, adding new businesses, and fixing up the area, sprawl continues.  A city that is millions in debt doesn't help, either.  More industrial parks, commerce parks, and strip malls continue to be built.

 

What makes this worse is that there's a lot of land that could be reused.  We're still suffering from our past as a coal-mining area.  Acres and acres of land are taken over by culm, or anthracite coal waste, that should be cleaned up and redeveloped.  This problem is more unique to my area, though.

 

My area consists of lots and lots and lots of small communities, where only a tiny handful are really self-sufficient.  While a few towns tried to redevelop parts of town, it hasn't helped.

 

Unfortunately, New Urbanism will not be accepted everywhere.  We need more New Urbanism communities and Old Urbanism communities, but I think people need to change first.  People like cars, and some people don't mind driving for an hour or more to get to work.  The suburbs will remain for quite some time.

 

It can't work in SimCity, though.  I think mixed zones and less dependency on roads is needed first.

 

I think I went a little off-topic.

[mcwesty2000 0]

Suburban sprawl happened in every city in the world as far as i know, to combat it in the UK greenbelts were set up around all of the largest settlements to try and discourage out-of-town development. By the 80s out-of-town shopping areas and malls were seriously discouraged as the centres of settlemnts suffered. This is why inner city redevelopment and gentrfication was introduced, and where mixed use higher density schemes originated from.

[digitalurbanity 0]

New Urbanism does not necessarily mean packing houses arms length together, its still possible to get quite denser than sprawl using "traditional neighborhood development", in which housing developments are built much like they were from the 1910's to the 1940's. Being built on a gridlike pattern with the lots being around 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre. These neighborhoods had to be built in a way as to be accessible by transit (aka streetcar suburbs) and generally had commercial services within walking or a short transit ride away. 1/4th to a third of an acre is plenty enough to have a 2 car garage, a garden, and a swimming pool in the back yard, and a decent sized front yard to create a barrier from the street. An important thing to point out is that space does not privacy make. The most effective means to create privacy on any lot is though effective landscaping and smart architecture. Something most sprawl does not have. it attempts to create the sense of privacy by having large amounts of space, even though you can easily see the backyards of everyone around you from your second story window.