Bat4Max v2.6 HD

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Originally posted by: Simcity player

I thought it worked the same way 3ds max 9 worked.

I followed the instructions like at the begining of this thread.

originally the 3dsmax 2010 was under program files.quote>

Simfox has already said this a million times, and I don't think he needs to say it again.

3ds Max MUST be installed into folder that doesn’t have any empty spaces in the path.quote>

The folder where 3ds Max is installed can not have any spaces in it. You need to install under something like C:\3dsMax2010 or just simply C:\Max.

1. Unpack the content of the archive into root folder of you 3ds Max installation.

2. Move content of …\gamepacks\bat\scripts\startup folder into …\Scripts\Startup\ folder on your 3dsMax installation folderquote>

You also have installed your gamepacks folder in the wrong place. It needs to go directly into C:\Max.

The only files that need to go to the C:\Max\Scripts\Startup folder are CPTB2Startup.ms and truNiteConverter.ms (and z_SF_LtbL-CC.ms if you use the Let there be Light add-on which is not compatible with 3ds Max 2010.)

[Simcity player 13]

thanks, it works great now, is there anything else i need?

[Aras 0]

Hi! A friend of mine is using max9 and he got a problem with "Let there be light" day view.

When he rendered his building before using Ltbl, it looked like this:

But, after he installed Ltbl, that building looks like this:

We checked the installation and all files are installed correctly. I checked the roof texture in my max2008 and it was only a little bit too dark, so I decreased bitmap output and then it looked good. When my friend changed output with my coordinates in his max9 it gave even worse results - texture was way too bright.

To be sure that this is not a problem with his textures I send him some of mine (textures was never edited in any way), the result was the same - textures were too bright (in my max2008 they loked very good). He also tried with changing Gamma output to standard setup, there were not any results.

Could it be that the max9 generate such an odd colors of textures?

And one more question - is there a way to make buildings rendered in "Maxis nite" match to Gizmo's night mod in game and vice versa? 'Cause when I exported night version of my building with "Maxis nite" it was brighter than the other buildings, when I used night mod.

[SimFox 802]

First of all let start at the beginning, namely definition of terms you use. Without it would be pointless to talk at all.

Brightness refers to the luminosity, be it of reflected light or own.

Dark means low brightness.

Output (as in Max material) is a multiplier of brightness. ! means it is unchanged. anything above it increases the visual brightness, Anything below decreases it.

So here is a first problem with your description. You say that it was to dark. Then somehow you decide to fix it by decreasing output. This it turn will (as we see from definitions) make it even darker. Where is a logic in that ? Or am I missing something?

Another issue is you testing things on your Max version (Max 2008) and passing numbers to your friend running Max9. The fact that different versions of MAX have different lights, versions Mental ray, different Color Correction(tone mapping) algorithms. The aim of LetThereBeLight is to provide all people using Max, independent of version, with best possible (with in practical terms for the most part means latest) lighting, color correction and rendering settings. And make basics, like lighting values, consistent. You can judge this consistency if you will rendr this very model what is called "clay", or neutral gray material. You'll see that it will look very similar in what ever version of Max you're using.

That's it. You are given leveled playing ground. What you do with your creation after that is but a sign of you eye and skill.

Sending him your textures is pointless since you're using different programs. But that doesn't mean that the problem s not in textures. The matter of fact is that you have to treat your particular version of Max as given, adjusting everything else to its "character".

Color correction employed by LtbL for Max versions 7 - 9 is Logarithmic Exposure Control. Original algorithms (used in Max 7- has a design flaw in it that results in OVERSATURATED output. In Max9 Autodesk decided to something about is and has re-written this algorithm reversing the problem 180 degrees. Now textures look totally washed out. Yet they provided the option (it could only be activated through scripting) to use so called "legacy mode" e.g. to keep things the way they were in Max 7-8. After some thinking I've decided to go with it. The idea was to keep consistency as wide as possible. So now max7-9 will give identical (to each other) results. I was thinking of Custom Contend users, I was to make this sure, not of creators. Creators are expected to understand (or at least try to understand) what they are doing and have all possibilities to trace case effect links and fix any problems.

OK, after this lengthy introductions to the model itself.

First of all I must say it is a very nice Spanish building here.

The main ( I would say only issue) with it is that your friend using way oversaturated colors to star with. I assume that walls are just diffuse colored material, right? This is very typical problem of beginners. And by beginners I mean not those who only opened Max few days/weeks ago, but those who never bothered to actually go dipper in trying understand the principles involved. Things like nature of light, color and so on.This is amplified by color correction problem described in previous chapter. And it gets another boost by the fact that LtbL setup is using global illumination. Light is bouncing from the object in scene each time picking a bit of teh color information of the point it bounced off (get reflected off). This is natural/phisically correct behavior. Just look at things around it - it's everywhere. People just don't notice it in day to day life. But if you getting your self into visual arts you better start noticing things like that, or you have no point in getting into it at all.

But all the these issues are totally solvable! However, you have to sort things in your head first. Be precise in your definitions (as ALL depends on them) and your causal linkages. There is NO such thing as "make it beautifull" button and never will be. You only get what you put in. That's why there is a PREVIEW button, to help you to understand all that.

My suggestion for this particular case it to use LESS saturation in either diffuse channel color or bitmaps. Here how same very render looks once desaturated by 40% in Photoshop:

Mind you this doesn't mean that you would have to desaturate everything in Max by that much. Remember of bouncing light. When it would bounce from already less saturated surface it will carry less saturation information with it. You have to find optimal setting on texture to texture and color to color basis. At start it may be quite a challenge, but soon you'll get it to intuition levels. If even after a while this still a very challenging task then, and I'm not trying to be nasty here, only realistic, you probably better find other hobby...

And your second question:

No ther isn't. Or to be precise not with truNite. Why would there be Darker Nite setting would it be possible?

[aemilia 0]

hi

I send this message because I have a problem with the phase render the BAT. When I click in this button I obtain this and I must stop how can I solve this issue ?? (this is the problem with a picture

thanks

[balkair 6]

hello! I've been trying to install BAT4MAX for a few days now, but with no success... This is where I installed 3DS Max 2010:

and my BATFORMAX file:

I have taken a look at the first page where a person had a similar problem to mine, but I can't figure out whats wrong :/ I export the LODs, import them in BAT and then export them, but when I click the Get Model Name button and select the file I get this error:

Any idea on what the problem might be and how to fix it? :/ Its driving me nuts...

Also, on BAT, when I import my LODs in order to export them, when the unit system is in generic units and I click do not convert units, the LODs turn out so big that I cant see their edges even in zoom 5! So i convert the units to meters and when i import the LODs I have to click on convert units, in order for the LODs to turn out correctly and export correctly. Otherwise, they wont export - it takes forever and no progress is made - its stuck at 13%....

help...? xD

[SimFox 802]

you're using wrong BAt4Max... ;-)

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Yeah exactly, when was the last version that you had to edit bat4max.ini?

Check the link on the first page of this thread, the process is very simple compared to the old days (just follow the directions). You might also want to pick up Let there be light, which is a marvelous piece of work in and of itself. BTW, your model is looking good.

[SimFox 802]

Yep dealing away with that was one of the first things I did...

But at this particular moment I meant something a bit different. Form the piece of code I see I can for sure say that this is not Bat4Max2.6HD...

Although I'm broadly familiar with other versions, still I would dare to give instructions on them, there are many thousands lines of code and each could be the reason... so...

PS Balkair, just noticed PM from you...

PS2

remember you have to first install Bat4Max2.6HD ..

and prior to that you would need to remove the version you have currently. This is quite simple, just remove the entire gamepacks folder.

[balkair 6]

I did everything according to the instructions (i think) but I'm still getting an error message when I export the BAT using 3DS max.

First, I get an error which says something about my version of trunite not being compatible with my version of 3DS Max. Then, when I create the BAT (in this case a test sphere smaller than a SC4 tile), refit the LODs, export the LODs, import them to Gmax and then export them, I get a code = 6 error message...

Bigger

This is where I have installed 3DS Max:

Bigger

Also, when I import the LODs in Gmax I'm supposed to have the units to "generic" and click on "don't convert units", right? When I do that, the LODs are huge (you can't see the edges on a zoom 5) and I get a code = 6 again...

Bigger

help? What am I doing wrong?

[SimFox 802]

First of all you haven't installed LetTherBeLight. If you would have done it the picture of your Max scene would have looked differently.

Install publicly available version following all the instructions on page 1 of this thread. and then update the script file with the one in the in the archive with Bat4Max update for Max2K9-10 series.

The problem you have is a result of failure to follow instruction. Simple as that.

You have to follow them exactly and entirely. Not just those that you, for some reason, decided to pick.

I can't be 100% sure without seeing your Max file, but I'm inclined to believe (with about 95% probability) that you haven't set your units properly.

[balkair 6]

I re-set my units and installed let there be light (with the Max2k update), but I' still getting a code 6 error message :/

[SimFox 802]

show screen grab of your both unit setups...

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Hey Simfox - I was told to upgrade from 2.5 to 2.6

Simple story short - Can I just overwrite the whole gamepacks folder and everything will be fine?

[balkair 6]

Here are my unit setups:

should I change something?

[SimFox 802]

Kellydalle: I'm not sure... There might be some differences. eg. some of the scripts were moved around (from scripts/startup to the bat folder) and some combined/included into others. So the best solution is simply remove the gamepacks folder, and make sure that no stray script files are left in Startup folder. And then install new one.

balkair:

Now everything is fine. But it wasn't before. The problem you've described hugely oversized LODs when imported to GMAX (they were about 40x the size in Max) was caused by the fact that your Max had inches as a system unit. Gmax and Max communicate with system units. So when you have 40x40x40m cube in Max it tells GMAX this piece of geometry is 1575 x1 575 x 1575 unit cube... That's why it was so huge in GMAX that at zoom5 you couldn't see the ends of it, in fact your camera probably were inside of it...

[kellydale2003 2,276]

@balkair - I just recently had this problem with 2.5: Error code 6 from my understanding and experience is the rendering process being interrupted or cancelled. It's your Max files - I re-installed mine, and upgraded to 2.6 and now everything works fine. Also pressing esc in rendering mode brings up the error code for me. But I am successful with renders.

@SimFox - Great News - I got everything perfect! Just a question or two though.

When I render the LODs in Gmax and choose "Draft"... Does that mean my full model rendered from Max will also be rendered in "Draft"?

Also for "Let there Be Light" - The files contained in "GMAX" - Do I need to install those? Or do I only need the Max files for 3DS?

Everytime I ask a question I end up figuring it out before some one answers (lol). Like right before I was going to post here I was going to ask why my Self-illumination boxes aren't working. And apparently you need electricity for them!  Duh!! But please answer those before I find out a couple days later (remember I read pages of text figuring out my problems, but I don't quite remember anything like LOD quality. And the Let there be light tutorial doesn't answer my question

Photo By me: First model into the game - LODs rendered in Medium! Playing with reflections, nightlighting, and textures.

EDIT: One more question - Do you think I need gamma correction for the photo above? You have super eyes and I cant tell the difference that much.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Oh and I found a cool nightlighting tool for those who use self-illumination. It's a script I found in a website database. I didnt bookmark it because I was too excited.

The tool randomly selects objects by the selected number of objects and percentage. So I thought If I hid everything except all the windows I could create textures and apply them to the selection that was randomly selected by the tool.

A little bit of math involved, but if your good and could do percentage in your head its a breeze and you fly by the numbers. But if your not good at it you can use an online calculator or something. Also when trying to divide a number of windows by 20% you will have a certain number of windows selected. Texture those selected windows in the materials editor and group those windows and hide them. select all the windows and select another percent of numbers again

((If you try to use 5 textures for 200 windows that's a 20% division scale and you can't use that 20% for the whole process... only for the first process when theres a full 200 windows available. When you texture, group, then hide that 20% of windows - You will have 160 windows left. And you cant use that 20% again - otherwise you will end up with wrong numbers: So if you have 160 windows left you will randomize the selection by 25% this time. than you will have 120 windows left - making the percentage 33.3 and so on and so fourth)) - If its an odd number of windows or is not divisable by the number of the textures you created than the LAST leftover UNGROUPED odd number of windows can be selected and textures (it will still look random).

It's not only good for windows, but for other geometry that may need this script. This is especially good for 3DS Max users who have trouble understanding algorithms and complicated or sophisticated text (fancy words). This is like gr 7 - 8 Math. Really easy.

Download "Random Select" 3DS MAX Script: www.tinyurl.com/RanSel3DSMax (You are not being phished, I used TinyURL for the incredibly long ling I was given)

EDIT: Made link open in new window (Disable pop-ups if necessary)

[SimFox 802]

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

@balkair - I just recently had this problem with 2.5: Error code 6 from my understanding and experience is the rendering process being interrupted or canceled. It's your Max files - I re-installed mine, and upgraded to 2.6 and now everything works fine. Also pressing esc in rendering mode brings up the error code for me. But I am successful with renders.

quote>

Kelly, Kelly, Kelly... ( for those who remember the "Cheers").

Error6 has "clear" definition. I put clear in "" because although it provided by original script creators it doesn't really tell much - "error occurred somewhere" - that's it folks.. go figure...

Anywho...

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

@SimFox - Great News - I got everything perfect! Just a question or two though.

quote>

That is a load of my mind! I mean taht you have got you bat4max working...

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

When I render the LODs in Gmax and choose "Draft"... Does that mean my full model rendered from Max will also be rendered in "Draft"?

...

Everytime I ask a question I end up figuring it out before some one answers (lol). Like right before I was going to post here I was going to ask why my Self-illumination boxes aren't working. And apparently you need electricity for them!  Duh!! But please answer those before I find out a couple days later (remember I read pages of text figuring out my problems, but I don't quite remember anything like LOD quality. And the Let there be light tutorial doesn't answer my question

quote>

LODs export from GMAX. Well true this area wasn't covered... The reason for this is because it makes no difference what so ever. However it is good to get to know the structure of SC4Model file. Although not, strictly speaking a must bot BATer it may give you idea about of improving your work and workflow. It is from that knowledge the whole method of truNite had come...

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

Also for "Let there Be Light" - The files contained in "GMAX" - Do I need to install those? Or do I only need the Max files for 3DS?

quote>

Well for this, onthe other hand ther is a suggestion and explicit explantion is provided at teh LetThereBeLight instructions:

Originally posted by: SimFox

Download also include GAMX Rig files. These are needed to ensure that what your LODS (exported into SC4Model by GMAXBAT absolutelly match your FSHs exported into SC4Modle by Bat4Max.

I have inspected Rigs floating about and those supplied in original BAT4Max (v2) and found out that there are small - imperceptible to an eye, but still significant discrepancies at camera positions and so on. This may result in various problems with models exported from BAT4Max. Most notable of them is when parts of your model are missing or somehow distorted. This is a result of LODs and FSHs being cut in different way. And this is a result that calculations were made from differently set cameras.

So I urge you to replace RIG files in your GMAX installation with these included here: these were set to match  Rig file for BAT4Max 100%

You would have to replace same naed files in ...gmax\gamepacks\BAT\scenes\CamLightRigs and ...gmax\gamepacks\BAT\scenes\startup foldersquote>

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

Photo By me: First model into the game - LODs rendered in Medium! Playing with reflections, nightlighting, and textures.

EDIT: One more question - Do you think I need gamma correction for the photo above? You have super eyes and I cant tell the difference that much.quote>

And I wanna ask you this question

Did you read the installation instructions for  LetThereBeLight?

What did it say? Do you expect me to make different suggestion now? Why?

at any rate your "photo" isn't one that would have demonstrated the real power of gamma anyway, since all you have the is a basic cube. Would it have a lot of crevices and holes in it that would be much better example.

All in all Max 7 is, unfortunately, about the worst version of max you can have. The problem with it is very early version of Mental ray. Mostly it manifests itself in a deficiency of Final Gather. It only does one bounce. Again you wouldn't see much difference on a simple cube, but again this would be much more evident in some complex shape. Look at Cockatoo's "panasonic" building. see how shadows drop rapidly into dark... Gamma helps here but the lack for secondary bounces of light is still evident...

Anyway. I'm glad you're off to a good start with BATing! I like your HK residential you've shown and the WTC model! You do have attention to proportions and details! Just remember that anyone would probably need to read instructions... and you'll be a pro!

I know I often come to as very harsh. Asking questions when people want simple clearcut answers. But I have my reasons. And those could be neatly summed by the age old biblical saying "give man a fish and will not go hungry for a day, teach him to fish and he shall not go hungry for a life time"

Simple clear answers are just like sweets - may taste nice, but ultimately bad for you. If you remember They don't teach anything. Trying to find answers and more questions that push you to it, on the other hand provide understanding that is essential to unleash ones creative potential. Examples of both approach are abound and they all support my view...

If person gets immediately defensive it s a good test for his suitability (or rather NOT suitability) to any creative process...

Good luck!

[balkair 6]

Hmm, glad I sorted that out, but I'm still gettin a code = 6 error... And my model is nothing special just a sphere I made to test that the exports work....

[SimFox 802]

well, there must be something there that causes it, cause otherwise this tool is working fine for great many people.

Do you have error code6 every time you try to export things? Even if you start entirely new scene and make simple box, say 32x32x32 m?

[balkair 6]

Yes, I always start a new scene, but I still get the same error when exporting.

Also, my "advanced lighting" option is gone from the 'render' menu - I need it for my school 3D design stuff. Is there any way I can get it back? I cant see it ever since I installed Lettherebelight...

[kellydale2003 2,276]

@Simfox - It's alright, Your one of those people in my life who can say anything and I won't get offended because something great you've done

Anyways - The reason why I asked about the GMAX files is because you only said "urge" and I was asking if it was really necessary. But I might as well go the full 10 yards in installing everything.

And also the other reason I asked about the gamma correction is because in Some test renders other buildings were basically brighter or darker than others. But now that you pointed out the geometry and matter of that 3DS Max 7 was new to mental ray I understand why this has happened: A bit bright then intended right?

So do you suggest I move to 3DS Max 8? I know all the steps to install - I know what I did wrong. And it shouldn't be a problem.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Originally posted by: balkair

Yes, I always start a new scene, but I still get the same error when exporting.

Also, my "advanced lighting" option is gone from the 'render' menu - I need it for my school 3D design stuff. Is there any way I can get it back? I cant see it ever since I installed Lettherebelight...quote>

I think you have conflicting files - Do you have any other plugins installed?

[balkair 6]

Nope - it worked just fine until LetThereBeLight

[kellydale2003 2,276]

@balkair - Did you even bother reinstalling EVERYTHING? because I got this error code too and at the same time I reinstalled everything and it was gone. I also did multiple things at once which may have contributed to the fact that it "somewhat" works.

@SimFox - I just realized something. Notice my tower?

Look at the shadows of the tower compared to the light posts created by Maxis.

xD

I think it's my camlightrigs - I think I forgot to make them default before installing Bixels Camlightrigs.

Lol - I'll try another export tonight with the default camlightrigs and I'll reinstall LetThereBeLight.

(I'm glad I'm solving my own dumb problems xD)

[autoVino 26]

@balkair -- advanced lighting option is no longer shown because mental ray automatically computes the correct lighting.  Let there be light probably automatically switched you to mental ray.  To turn this back on swich your renderer at the bottom of the common tab back to scanline (not reccomended becasue metnal ray tends to be far better than scanline).

Error = 6 is tricky because so many factors go into it.  The rendering section of the script (buildingmill) is divided into pre-processing, rendering, and post-processing sections (under the FnExprotAllZoomsAndRotations function... everything before just declares different functions... commands so to say... that will be used in this function).

The whole error system comes from (the classic?) try...catch statement.  This means that the computer whill try to run the script that is enclosed, and if it cannot for some reason, it stops what it is doing and jumps to the catch.  If you have a counter variable that is updated after each step in the script, you can find where the error occurs.

Everything before error 6 tends to be some pre-processing error (I won't go into detail of that).  Anything after error 6 is a post processing error.  Error 6 itself is any render time error, such as if the program gets denied permission, memory, or even if your system units are off (this is of course if the application isn't automatically killed by windows).

The whole "an error occured somewhere" actually should appear in the listener regaurdless of the error.

To help find the culprit of the error six, I would try commenting out (only temporarily, make sure you back out the buildingmill script!) the try-catch function.  For me the comments should be placed on lines 2337 - 2338 and 2627 - 2632.  You will likely have different lines because I've played with the script a lot so that it would work for my version of 3ds max.  So comment out the following lines: "try", "(" and later on ")", "catch"... up until ")progressUpdate 100"

To comment something out type "--" before it and click save and restart 3ds max.  Or if you haven't rendered anything yet, just press ctrl + E and try to render.

You should get a far more elaborate error message is the listener that will tell you all the variables used, and the position of the error.  Either of two things occured, you have a system error or there is a "variable out of scope" issue caused by your setup.  Post this error and any other error message attached as a text file (in a zip?) and maybe (that's a big maybe!) somebody could figure the problem out.

Before you do any of this, make sure your system units are set to meters and your working units are set likewsie!  This is a very common cause of this error.

...I hope that made any sense at all 

edit: okay I looked more closely at your previous posts (I'll keep the above post for reference) and it looks like you have your problem in gmax (which is likely caused by your lod too big).  Make sure your units in 3ds max are correct and also make sure you are in generic units in sc4bat all the time.  Do not check convert units (although it doesn't really do anything unless your units are setup wrong in 3ds max).  Also with your version of 3ds max, you may have trouble exporting using mental ray, but Simfox's next version of bat4max should address this issue.

Can you clear this up for me as well, which program are you getting the error 6 in, gmax, 3ds max, or both?

[Simcity player 13]

say,when is simfox's next version of bat4max going to be released?

[SimFox 802]

Soon... the main issue I'm pondering over at the moment, should it be exclusive update for the Max 2K9&2K10 or large update for bat4Max... Here I again should say that compatibility with MentalRay in Max2k9 and 2k10 is enabled thanks to autoVino's effort!

Plus I have a plan for making Bat5Max installation independent of 3Ds Max location, seeing how many people fail to read/ignore instructions, no matter how clear and specific those may be...

I sort of know what should be done but it takes time to do. And I'm not sure I have time just so that some people could save 2 min by not reading clear instructions... Some people even have audacity demanding that I have re-write the whole thing simply to spare them the effort of re-installing...

I do plan to integrate LetTherBeLight into core Bat4Max and make some setting (like system and display units setup) part of it routine operations. But here I have a dilemma... how to make clear to peole that they would have to run LetTherBeLight first thing after they open Max for BATing? Making it set the units BAT way automatically on Max open could interfere with other max uses (when people need those to be millimeters or inches or whatever else..) Put it in instructions... well we all know what happens to instructions...

Another issue is version support...

When I was making LetsThereBeLight, I had to find people with all existing (realistically from Max7) versions of 3dsMax in order to work test all the setting and results they produce.This was no mean feat! Not sure I can or even willing to go through this again... In practical terms this may mean discontinued 100% assurance for older versions of Max when newer versions of Bat4Max will be released. So I though, given that it works well at the moment (barring people failing to follow instructions) I may leave it as is e.g. vers.2.6HD for Max versions 7-2008 and farther concentrate on development for 2K versions (e.g. 2008, 2009, 2010)

kellydale2003:

the lights in your example are all wrong. Not only the direction they shine from , but also their intensity, hue etc, etc, etc... Building looks like fish out of water in game. With all due respect to Bixel, lighting of his releases isn't ideal for the game. They are nice models in their own right but the stick out of the cityscape way to much. This is a reason why I, for instance have all of his works (just because I like them and want to collect them -gotta have them all, sorta thing) but I wouldn't really use them in cities...

Whole purpose of LetThereBeLight was to provide

a. uniformity for all BATers

b. make sure the this uniformity is as compatible to Game environment as possible while utilizing global illumination method.

Ignoring it will not make you production special, it will simply make it out of place... On the other hand if you think you can better job yourself you're welcome to try and if it is really better it could and I'd say, should be incorporated into next version of LetTherBeLight.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Originally posted by: SimFox

kellydale2003:

the lights in your example are all wrong. Not only the direction they shine from , but also their intensity, hue etc, etc, etc... Building looks like fish out of water in game. With all due respect to Bixel, lighting of his releases isn't ideal for the game. They are nice models in their own right but the stick out of the cityscape way to much. This is a reason why I, for instance have all of his works (just because I like them and want to collect them -gotta have them all, sorta thing) but I wouldn't really use them in cities...

Whole purpose of LetThereBeLight was to provide

a. uniformity for all BATers

b. make sure the this uniformity is as compatible to Game environment as possible while utilizing global illumination method.

Ignoring it will not make you production special, it will simply make it out of place... On the other hand if you think you can better job yourself you're welcome to try and if it is really better it could and I'd say, should be incorporated into next version of LetTherBeLight.

quote>

I'm still getting used of it and learning.

And I know how much frustration it must be constantly being PMed the same questions and stuff. During the installation it's a bit confusing and you don't really know where to place things. And if your the kind of person who doesn't give up (like me) you'll find a way around to installing it properly one way or another.

So I think I might have a solution to that (only if you acknowledge a postive response). Since I am a visual person and probably are a lot of people.

I could create a video teaching how to install Bat4Max and LetThereBeLight.

Also I think you may need to create a BAT4MAX FAQ - This may help some of the constant answers rolling into your PM inbox.

So what do you say?

EDIT: 111th post in this thread.