The Treaty of Lisbon (European Union)

[Aontan 0]

Cowen defends treaty after poll plunge

Friday, 6 June 2008 15:35

Taoiseach Brian Cowen has stoutly defended the Lisbon Treaty after a poll indicated a large increase in the No vote.

With six days to go to polling day, the TNS mrbi poll in today's Irish Times showed opponents of the treaty taking a five-point lead over those who support it.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today With Pat Kenny, Mr Cowen said there was no validity to the main points being raised by the No campaign, who he accused of creating fear, suspicion and confusion.

He said those backing the treaty had further work to do but he was confident the Yes vote would increase.

Declan Ganley, the founder of Libertas, which opposes the treaty, said the results of the opinion poll should be taken with a grain of salt. He said the referendum was still there for the taking by either side.

Mr Ganley, meanwhile, has accepted a challenge from the Minister for Health, Mary Harney, to a debate on the economic implications of the document.

Ms Harney said a Yes vote was Ireland's best option for investment and jobs in the future.

In response, Mr Ganley said he looked forward to a debate on what he claimed were the potentially disastrous implications of Lisbon for inward investment into Ireland.

The Minister for Finance has said there is no plan B if the Lisbon Treaty is rejected, as suggested by those opposed to it.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Mr Lenihan said supporting the treaty was vital for Ireland's interests.

He said every citizen needed to take direct responsibility for their place in a progressive Europe.

Also on the programme, Sinn Féin MEP Mary Lou McDonald said the poll showed that the Irish public believed a better deal was possible.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin, who is the director of Fianna Fáil's campaign, said the poll showed that there was still a lot of confusion because much of the debate to date has focused on issues that are not in the document.

Mr Martin said in the past, polls taken over a week before voting have not always proved accurate in predicting the final result.

The pro-treaty organisation, the Alliance for Europe, which is chaired by Ruairí Quinn, has said that while it was disappointed with the poll, it believed the referendum still could be won.

TNS mrbi interviewed 1,000 voters throughout Ireland on Tuesday and Wednesday, and found that 30% said they would vote Yes. This is a fall of five points since the last poll three weeks ago.

But opposition to the treaty is up 17% to 35%. The number of people who are undecided has fallen 12% to 35%.

Opinion polls up to now in the referendum campaign had indicated support for the Lisbon Treaty.

PNA opposes Irish role in EU defence policy

Meanwhile, the Peace and Neutrality Alliance has claimed that the Lisbon Treaty would lead to Irish involvement in European defence policy.

Although the proposed wording to be put into the Constitution specifically precludes Ireland from joining any common defence set up under the treaty, PANA claims Lisbon would lead to greater involvement in defence policy.

PANA Chairman Roger Cole said 'the devil is in the detail'.

At a news conference in Dublin, the organisation was critical of the Referendum Commission claiming it had not given the full facts in its leaflet explaining the treaty.

RTÉ.ie/Lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

Story from RTÉ News:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0606/eulisbon.html

quote>

A huge swing against the treaty, with the "No" camp basically doubling in three weeks - if this is repeated next week the Treaty of Lisbon is dead, like the EU Constitution after France and the Netherlands voted it down.

To those on this site in the EU, what do you think about this treaty?

[Gn_leugim 853]

I abstain, because i don't know much about it, and it will have no direct impact on my life ^^

[toxicpiano 125]

HA! TAKE THAT UNITED EUROPE

anyway, I find some humour in the fact that the entire future of the EU rests on a small island with a population of 4 million (and obviously it will be far less voting).

If this was defeated it would be nice to think that people would start thinking about what the EU is suppose to be about, trade and helping each other.

[Jerebannus XVI 7]

I would vote YES. I'm staunchly pro-EU and there's no doubt in my mind that the EU is good for all its member states. I believe the UK should concentrate more on European integration that on warmongering with the United States, the UK is not as influential as it once was, we are not an empire anymore but seems some politicians just fail to see that. That's partly the reason why the UK's influence within the EU is so pathetic.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: Jerebannus XVI I would vote YES. I'm staunchly pro-EU and there's no doubt in my mind that the EU is good for all its member states. I believe the UK should concentrate more on European integration that on warmongering with the United States, the UK is not as influential as it once was, we are not an empire anymore but seems some politicians just fail to see that. That's partly the reason why the UK's influence within the EU is so pathetic.quote>

There's nothing wrong with being more involved, just that we don't need to lose potentionally vast amounts of sovereignty to do it.

[fukuda 351]

Talking about the article, it often seems that some think that they can get all what they want and reject what they don't in a union or treaty...

[belfastuniguy 18]

Well it would seem that people are either voting No or Abstaining because they have been given a false impression by some national media. I also doubt those people have actually read or understand the treaty. The UK or Ireland for that matter are not about to lose 'vast amounts of sovereignty', that arguement is without grounds and flawed.

I think people actually need to look at Europe and evaluate in an intelligent and informed way the benefits being apart of Europe has for the United Kingdom and Ireland. Ireland especially has benefited a great deal from Europe as has Northern Ireland in the form of economic development, social changes and wider union cohesion. The UK has been the recipient of many benefits of membership ranging from civil rights, economic development, greater market access and many others.

This treaty is not the foundation for a United Europe, that view is ridiculous and clearly such people have not read the treaty.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: toxicpiano

There's nothing wrong with being more involved, just that we don't need to lose potentionally vast amounts of sovereignty to do it.quote>

So if the UK Parliament votes in favour of the revised treaty you're getting rid of your opt-in relationship?

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy Well it would seem that people are either voting No or Abstaining because they have been given a false impression by some national media. I also doubt those people have actually read or understand the treaty. The UK or Ireland for that matter are not about to lose 'vast amounts of sovereignty', that arguement is without grounds and flawed.

I think people actually need to look at Europe and evaluate in an intelligent and informed way the benefits being apart of Europe has for the United Kingdom and Ireland. Ireland especially has benefited a great deal from Europe as has Northern Ireland in the form of economic development, social changes and wider union cohesion. The UK has been the recipient of many benefits of membership ranging from civil rights, economic development, greater market access and many others.

This treaty is not the foundation for a United Europe, that view is ridiculous and clearly such people have not read the treaty.

quote>

I was being sarcastic with the big letters, I know that I didn't articulate very well.

[Aontan 0]

The whole EU is watching

RTÉ.ie/lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

Thousand of column inches and kilobytes throughout the EU have been dedicated to Ireland's unique position as the only member country to vote on the Lisbon Treaty.

Finnish paper Helsingin Sanomat writes that Ireland is currently the most influential country in Europe as the other 26 Member States await the results of the referendum on 12 June 

Denmark's Politiken writes of the impact the Irish referendum will have on the future of the EU.

Dziennik in Poland has quoted Commission President José Manuel Barroso saying there is no plan B if Ireland rejects the Treaty.

The Lithuanian press criticised their Government's refusal to put the Treaty to a citizens' vote, and the British papers have been covering the campaigns for Gordon Brown to approve a referendum before UK ratification of the Treaty.

The campaign for a referendum in the UK has been covered across a range of publications and last weekend's papers reported that the English High Court is hearing a legal challenge against Gordon Brown on the referendum issue - on the same day as the Irish referendum.

Sweden is not due to ratify the Lisbon Treaty until after the Irish electorate has voted and, mindful that the Irish result could determine the future of the Treaty, its press has carried opinion pieces urging Ireland's approval of the Treaty. A no vote, Dagens Nyheter newspaper warns, could result in EU chaos.

The uncertainty of the outcome has been of interest to many European newspapers and notably the continually wavering results of the Irish opinion polls. The Financial Times featured an article reporting that EU bureaucracy and initiative has been toned down lately in order to prevent any negative influence on the Irish referendum. The article also noted how embarrassing a no vote could prove for the EU.

Particular attention has been paid to the level of undecided Irish voters registered in the surveys, but Ireland is not the only country confused about the Treaty. Prague Post and Právo, two Czech Republic publications, both published surveys which reported that up to 40% of the Czech public has no idea what the Lisbon Treaty is.

The IFA's decision to support the Government's yes vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum got a lot of attention across Europe with German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung publishing an article on the IFA's success at blackmailing the Taoiseach before lending their support to his campaign. Weekendavisen from Denmark points out that the farmers' votes could well prove the deciding factor in the success or failure of the Lisbon Treaty.

While we may feel inundated by campaign posters, Lisbon debates and Treaty chatter, the Spanish paper La Vanguardia claims the Irish media hasn't shown much interest in the Lisbon Treaty to date.

Story from RTÉ News:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0606/lisbonworld.html

quote>

Après the vote

RTÉ.ie/lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

The different scenarios: A look at what would happen if Ireland rejects, or accepts, the Treaty.

Scenario one: If Ireland votes No...

The Treaties currently in operation in the EU, last amended by the Nice Treaty, will remain standing as they are now.

The European reaction to Ireland's result is open to conjecture and has been predicted to range from EU-wide chaos to virtually no reaction at all. Commission President José Manuel Barroso has re-iterated that there is no 'Plan B' if Ireland rejects the ratification of Lisbon.

It is possible that Ireland would hold another referendum later in the year, perhaps after further negotiations, to keep the door open for Ireland to get on board with the Treaty. There is also the possibility that the other 26 countries will continue with the ratification process and all Member States, bar Ireland, will move forward with the Lisbon Treaty. In this situation, Ireland would have to negotiate how it would engage with this group.

The Yes side says that if Ireland rejects it, the Treaty will collapse and Member States will come together in groups to move forward on areas where they have been frustrated by the Irish vote.

The No side says that a 'no' vote opens up an opportunity for re-negotiation for a more favourable Treaty for Ireland.

Scenario two: If Ireland votes Yes...

If each of the other Member States successfully ratifies the Treaty, The Treaty amending the Treaty on European Union and the Treaty Establishing the European Community, (i.e. The Lisbon Treaty), will come into effect on 1 January 2009.

Every country keeps its veto on military matters.

Every country keeps its veto on taxation issues. Other Member States cannot run an enhanced co-operation if it conflicts with the laws of the Union or distorts competition.

Guidelines will be laid down for leaving the EU if a Member State so chooses. There is also an article outlining how the EU will react towards a Member State which breaches the EU's objectives as laid down in the Treaties. The Council may decide to suspend that Member States' voting rights in the Council.

The clause known as the 'Citizens' Initiative' will be introduced whereby not less than 1m citizens from a significant number of Member States can submit a legislative proposal to the Commission for its consideration, (but must be related to the Treaties and the Commission is not compelled to act on it after the period of consideration).

The new office of the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy will replace both the EC vice-president and the High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy positions simultaneously. Javier Solana, currently the High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, is rumoured to be in line for the position, if he is not too exhausted by that time.

The European Parliament will become an EU institution and, operating under 'co-decision' together with the Council, will legislate on a wide area of EU competence. This adoption procedure means that the Council of the EU (representing the people) and the European Parliament (representing the States) can both reject a proposal of the Commission. This extension of the co-decision procedure applies to judicial and police co-operation.

The European Parliament and the Council will now determine together all annual expenditures, and the Parliament must approve the multi-annual agreement that frames the level and structure of the EU budget for a seven-year period.

The European Parliament will also have to approve the international agreements signed by the EU in a large number of areas.

The European Central Bank will become one of the official institutions of the EU, bound by the same code as the other institutions. The Lisbon Treaty does not include an article that ensures the bank's independence.

The Charter on Fundamental Human Rights is granted full legal status through the Lisbon Treaty.

The European Council will become an official EU institution under the Lisbon Treaty, with a President holding office for a term of 2.5 years. Currently, this position is rotated between the Member States every six months. Persons rumoured to have an interest in the position include Tony Blair and serving Commission President, José Manuel Barroso.

The 'pillar structure' of the EU would be abolished under Lisbon, creating one EU legal personality. The 'pillar structure' refers to the way the EU current operates. The first pillar covers the European Community, which currently has legal personality. The second pillar covers Common Foreign and Security Policy. The third pillar concerns Police and Judicial Co-operation in Criminal Matters. These three currently comprise the EU and will be consolidated into one legal form if the Lisbon Treaty is ratified.

The 'solidarity clause' obliges Member States to assist one another if attacked or if struck by a natural disaster but does not specify what kind of assistance should be offered.

The Nice Treaty reduces the number of Commissioners regardless of what happens in the Lisbon Treaty referendum but there is a get-out clause to delay or cancel the reduction if the Member States unanimously agree to bin the idea.

Ireland is already part of the Euratom Treaty since 1973 and has to continue to contribute financially to research programmes under Euratom.

Story from RTÉ News:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0610/lisbonscenarios.html

quote>

Only one day left, with a moratorium on broadcasters from midnight tonight to give voters a bit of peace from hearing about it...

No one can be certain what way it'll go... all recent polls still show it could go either way easily.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Irish EU referendum: Voters' views

The two camps have intensified campaigning with days to go

Irish voters are preparing to decide the fate of the EU's Lisbon Treaty in a referendum on 12 June.

Ireland is the only EU member state to have a public vote on the treaty and both sides have stepped up their campaigning, with many voters still undecided.

Here, Irish voters reveal how they will cast their ballots and what the main issues are for them.

SANDRA FITZPATRICK, 62, DUBLIN

I am voting No in the referendum.

Not one person I have heard, or read, has given me a clearer view of what the central issues of this referendum are and what we are supposed to be voting for.

I feel under those circumstances, it would be extremely foolish to vote Yes.

We would be stuck with something we could never change, and to judge by the wording, anything at all could be implemented into the treaty after we have voted for it.

CONOR NEWMAN, 29, MIDLETON, COUNTY CORK

I will vote Yes. The naysayers have constantly been predicting negative implications from all of the EU treaties, and have been consistently proven to be wrong.

Ireland's economic wealth and success in recent years has been down to our membership of the EU.

If maintaining our country's economy and global strength is not reason enough to vote Yes, then here's another: Jean-Marie Le Pen wants us to vote No - if that does not ring alarm bells, there's something wrong with you.

The big shout from the No campaign is that we will lose our commissioner.

I don't know if it is a deliberate oversight, or if they are just ignorant of the role of our commissioner, but losing him is irrelevant, as currently he cannot show any preference to Ireland anyway.

He is appointed by us, but does not work for us, he works for Europe.

TERRY O'FLOINN, 33, DUBLIN

I will be voting Yes. The EU has been good to Ireland and we certainly would not have enjoyed the past decade of development without assistance from EU states and access to large trading partners such as Britain.

The EU is far from perfect and needs much reform.

The Lisbon Treaty is another small step in reforming EU institutions and streamlining decision-making processes.

I do have concerns as a citizen of a small country that, for example, we will lose some of the benefits, such as a permanent commissioner.

But on the upside, the introduction of the citizen's initiative gives citizens of EU countries a bit of a voice to introduce topics for debate in the EU parliament - not perfect but a step in the right direction.

TONY RODGERS, 18, CORK

I will be voting No. I personally don't support a constitution for the EU at all.

I only supported the EU as an economic union, and despise the idea of it becoming involved in our social policy.

That aside, even if I did support the EU having a constitution, it wouldn't include Ireland not having a commissioner for five out of every 15 years, as proposed.

I do not like this emerging integrated federal state.

PETER BUCHANAN, 48, WICKLOW

I will be voting Yes, only because I believe, having lived in Poland, that the EU has a chance to unite Europe.

I do feel, however, that it is wrong that Ireland is the only country in Europe that has an opportunity to vote.

The will of all the people is not being heard and that does not bode well for the future.

ELAINE NORTON, 26, KILDARE

The Lisbon Treaty remains a complete mystery as far as most Irish voters are concerned.

I was recently asked by a work colleague what a Yes vote would entail.

I was unable to give an answer. There have been and will be many more publicised heated debates amongst our politicians on whether to vote Yes or No, but no one has outlined what exactly the Lisbon Treaty is or what it would change.

As a result I intend to vote No until the government decides to explain in full detail what it is we are expected to say Yes to.

If in doubt vote No. There is too much uncertainty as to what a Yes vote will bring.

FINTAN HASTINGS, 24, GALWAY

I will be voting Yes for the treaty.

Having actually read the text of the document myself I have found that many of the points raised by opponents of Lisbon are either untrue or a distortion of the facts.

It is for this reason I feel that Irish voters must read the treaty and make an informed decision for themselves.

There has been an unfortunate tendency throughout the referendum campaign for the No side to prey on issues which they know will elicit strong feelings among the Irish electorate, such as taxation, the loss of sovereignty and in particular the compromising of our traditional military neutrality.

They have thus far, however, failed to provide any substantive evidence of how the Lisbon Treaty would in any way affect any of these matters.

JOHN JEFFERIES, 46, COBH, COUNTY CORK

The EU calls itself a democratic institution but the fact that only one of the 27 member states is holding a referendum on a major institutional change such as the Lisbon Treaty proves it is not.

The only reason Ireland is having a referendum is because a citizen, Raymond Crotty, took a constitutional challenge in our courts 22 years ago which said that any change to the constitution required a referendum.

The EU must stop telling the people what to do and start listening, and stop handing down major institutional changes which affect the sovereignty of individual member states, and expecting us to merely rubber stamp them.

I will be voting No to the Lisbon Treaty and I believe we have a good chance of defeating it and forcing all governments of the EU back to the negotiating table.

Let's hope next time they listen to the people of Europe.

BRIAN GOLDEN, 33, DUBLIN

I'll be voting Yes because this is a hard-fought compromise treaty and it is the best on offer.

There's significant support for a No vote here, and it's spread across different groups.

Few yet understand the treaty and there's a danger now that No will become the default option for Irish voters.

With the Nice Treaty referenda, many stayed at home the first time around but came out the second time.

The difference then was the turnout of the Yes voters, who were a lot less motivated than the No voters.

So turnout will be crucial this time. What I don't like at all is that many, not all, No posters don't have any name on them.

It could well be foreign groups or some Irish fringe groups trying to scaremonger.

DECLAN BRENNAN, 21, FREELANCE VIDEO EDITOR, DUBLIN

I am not anti-Europe, but I will vote No to the Lisbon Treaty.

The EU has been good for Ireland, but this does not mean we should vote Yes out of obligation or some sort of feeling of gratitude.

A Yes vote will lead to the EU having the same legal standing as a state and we in Ireland will be under its umbrella.

It will also require Ireland to invest in its defence forces and contribute Irish taxpayers' money to a fund to get an EU army or rapid reaction force or whatever they're calling it these days up and running.

I will be voting No because it is a great deal for Europe, but an awful deal for Ireland. A No vote will send the EU back to the drawing board to work on a deal that will suit all member states.

quote>

Can't say I find some of the posters by the 'NO' campaign too appealing or accurate. Especially the one pictured above. "People died for your freedom - vote No"

The very fact people died and Europe was torn apart was one of the fundamental reasons the EU was born to seek to ensure nothing like it would never happen again between European nations. I also think the 'NO' campaigners should remember the great deal of assistance Ireland has received from Europe.

If I were to vote..which I can as I have joint Irish-British Citizenship I would most certainly vote yes. I have read the treaty and do understand it. I fear the fact that have have no understanding could tip the vote in favour of No. It happened with Nice, could happen again. I hope the Irish vote Yes however.

[Aontan 0]

Polls closed in Lisbon Treaty Referendum

Thursday, 12 June 2008 22:20

RTÉ.ie/lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

Polls have closed in the vote on the European Union's new Lisbon Treaty.

Counting begins at 9am tomorrow morning and results should be announced by early evening.

Turn-out is estimated to be at around 40%.

Opinion polls have indicated that the result is too close to call, despite an all-out campaign by both sides.

Voting was reported to be fairly slow in many areas.

Reports also suggest that voting was heavier in urban than in rural areas.

It also appears that turnout was higher in middle class than in working class districts, which would be in line with normal election and referendum patterns.

Polling stations around the country opened at 7am this morning and closed at 10pm.

Among the early voters was President Mary McAleese, who cast her ballot at St Mary's Hospital in the Phoenix Park.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen was also out early in his home town of Tullamore, while Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny cast his ballot in Castlebar.

Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore voted in Shankill in Dublin, while Environment Minister and Green Party leader John Gormley voted in Ringsend.

Ciaran Cannon of the Progressive Democrats cast his vote this morning at St Joseph's school in Carrabane, Co Galway

Leading figures in the No campaign were also voting early: Declan Ganley, the chairman of Libertas, voted in Tuam, Co Galway; Patricia McKenna, the former MEP who is chairperson of the People's Movement, voted in Drumcondra in Dublin; while Sinn Féin MEP Mary Lou McDonald, who fronted her party's anti-Lisbon campaign, was in Castleknock.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0612/eulisbon.html

quote>

[simwario 95]

If i could, i would have voted No. But Germany as the other 25 european nations wasn't asked to vote via a national referendum, so actually it's all the same to me since we can't change anything about it. So Ireland, you have it in you're hands, please vote wise.

[Aontan 0]

No vote strong in early Lisbon tallies

Friday, 13 June 2008 11:08

RTÉ.ie/lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

Early tallies in the Lisbon Referendum count from constituencies around the country are showing a very strong showing by the No vote.

The No vote is strong in many rural areas and in working class districts of cities, while middle class areas appear to be less supportive of the treaty than had been anticipated.

The early trend is all one way - against the Lisbon Treaty. However, it must be stressed that these are only tallies, and that the result could be tighter than indications so far.

But most rural constituencies are showing a No vote - including Mayo, where Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny has forecast his home constituency will vote against the treaty.

In urban areas, middle class areas by and large appear to have voted in favour of the Treaty - but not by the normal large margin, and not by enough to counteract the large No in working class areas.

Turnout is estimated to have been in the mid-40s percentage range. After years of negotiation and months of debate, the fate of the Lisbon Treaty will be known within hours.

The final official result is expected to be announced late this afternoon, but tallies from the 43 constituencies should give a good indication of the likely outcome late this morning.

Each constituency counts its own votes separately, and then sends the result to the Referendum Returning Officer in Dublin Castle, who will announce the overall result.

Turnout is thought to have been higher than in the first Nice Referendum, which was defeated, but lower than in the second, which was passed.

However, with recent opinion polls suggesting that supporters of the treaty were more likely to vote, a lower turnout is not necessarily good news for the No side.

Story from RTÉ News:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbon.html

quote>

Some radio stations are also reporting that in some areas the result is 3-to-1 against the treaty... The final results will be confirmed a few hours, though.

[GMT 389]

Originally posted by: simwario If i could, i would have voted No. But Germany as the other 25 european nations wasn't asked to vote via a national referendum, so actually it's all the same to me since we can't change anything about it. So Ireland, you have it in you're hands, please vote wise. quote>

See, that's exactly why I said no in the ST vote on it.

the EU has grown to a big fat lie.

And especially Germany is screwing it up over and over again.

While *all* EU nations think about how to follow the EU dictatorship in a halfway acceptable manner, Germany jumps as the EU whistles, making itself the joker in the union.

there's plenty of evidence that EU members laugh at Germany because whatever they do according to EU commands, it fails because they act first, think second instead of doing it the other way around.

The EU, still being ruled by the farmer-lobby, should just go and f... off.

All the good things it initiated back when it started to exist, they screwed in the last couple of years with all the plain stupidity the put into making even more stupid acts. x has to be of this sice, y has to have this certain shape, bananas should be of this angle, ...

not to mention that many nations send those politicians towards Brussels that they don't want to have in their national parliaments any longer. Brussels has grown to a holding track where to push disagreeable politicians aside.

god I love the european union... I'm counting the days till I finally leave this piece of land towards a more livable place

[Aontan 0]

Ireland rejects Lisbon Treaty

Friday, 13 June 2008 17:22

RTÉ.ie/Lisbon has complete results and live video/audio feeds of the Referendum

Irish voters have rejected the Lisbon Treaty.

With results in from all 43 constituencies, the Lisbon Treaty has been defeated by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%. 

A total of 752,451 people voted in favour of the treaty and 862,415 voted against.

Just 10 constituencies - Clare, Dublin South, Dublin South East, Dublin North, Dublin North Central, Dún Laoghaire, Kildare North, Laois Offaly, Carlow Kilkenny and Meath East - voted in favour of the Treaty. 

Tánaiste Mary Coughlan, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny and former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern all failed to carry the vote in their own constituencies.

As the first results came in, it became apparent that opponents of the Treaty had in many places improved on the share of the vote they won in the first Nice referendum.

And unlike that vote, the defeat of the Lisbon Treaty cannot be blamed on apathy, with a high turnout recorded for a referendum.

Waterford was the first constituency to declare an official result - and it was unequivocal, rejecting Lisbon by 54-46.

This morning's tallies showed the strength of the No vote across the country, with just a handful of constituencies looking like they would vote Yes.

The margin of victory for the No side may be a bit tighter than was suggested in the initial tallies - but there seems little doubt that it is a victory.

The No vote was strong in many rural areas and in working class districts of cities, while middle class areas appeared to be less supportive of the treaty than had been anticipated.

In urban areas, middle class areas by and large appeared to have voted in favour of the treaty - but not by the normal large margin, and not by enough to counteract the large No in working class areas.

Each constituency is counting its own votes separately, before sending the result to the Referendum Returning Officer in Dublin Castle, who will announce the overall result.

Turnout is thought to have been higher than in the first Nice Referendum, which was defeated, but lower than in the second, which was passed.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbon.htm

quote>

Lisbon result poses question for EU

Friday, 13 June 2008 17:31

RTÉ.ie/lisbon has complete coverage of the Lisbon Treaty

The news of a No win in the Lisbon referendum has been greeted with disappointment but no real surprise by the Yes side.

Many politicians are already reflecting on the reasons behind what seems to be an imminent No victory with some pointing to an obvious 'disconnect' between the people and politicians.

It is a major blow to the Government and all the main political parties, except Sinn Féin.

The result also puts a question mark over how the EU moves forward, with most if not all of the other 26 countries likely to go ahead and ratify the treaty.

In general, working class and rural constituencies voted against, while middle class areas were in favour.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said he accepted that Ireland has voted No to Lisbon.

He said 18 member states had already approved the treaty and the commission believed that the remaining ratifications should continue to take their normal course. 

Mr Barroso said he had spoken to Taoiseach Brian Cowen, who told him the outcome should not be seen as a vote against the EU.

'The Lisbon Treaty is now dead' - as results poured in this afternoon, Labour leader Eamon Gilmore delivered that stark assessment.

Mr Gilmore says his party will not support putting it to the people again.

The blame game is now under way among others in the Yes camp, with Fine Gael's Michael Noonan saying the No vote was a result of the Government campaign not starting on time.

He said it was a mistake to hold the referendum at this time just after a change of leader.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Michéal Martin said the Government would reflect on the result, but insisted all democrats in Europe would respect the decision of the people of Ireland.

Mr Martin admitted that people were in doubt 'and when in doubt.leave out.'

As the votes came in, Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams stressed that the people had 'expressed concerns that needed to be dealt with - particularly that they want a social Europe.'

Declan Ganley of Libertas said there is now a clear mandate for Brian Cowen to go back to Europe with to look for a better deal for the Irish people.

Stressing that a No vote by the Irish people was not an anti-European vote, he said it will be the third time such a message will be sent to the elite in Brussels.

Munster MEP Kathy Sinnott also welcomed the likely No victory, saying the people of Europe will be delighted with the outcome as they were not given the chance to vote.

The 'disconnect' between the democratic voice of the people and their leaders was highlighted by Senator Shane Ross.

'We are now in an area the Government had not planned to be in' Sen Ross warned.

Earlier, Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan was heckled by No supporters as he tried to give interviews to the media at the RDS.  He abandoned the interviews and was forced to leave the centre.

Former Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald spoke of 'a crisis for Ireland and for Europe'.

Mr Fitzgerald warned that Ireland has to face the fact that the other countries will want to go ahead with the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty and 'that is a real problem for us.'

Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern said 'this was Plan B' and said Ireland was now in uncharted territory. 'We will have to wait for reaction from the member states to this decision.'

Also calling for reflection was Fine Gael MEP Gay Mitchell, who said that all the issues involved in the campaign needed to be looked at.

He stressed that the argument put forward by others, that there was a lack of information about the treaty, did not stand up.

Irish Farmers Association President Padraig Walshe expressed his disappointment at the No vote but insisted that he did not think anyone voted against Europe or voted to damage the Irish economy.

Irish rejection

The Netherlands, which rejected the EU constitution three years ago, will continue ratifying the Lisbon treaty despite its apparent rejection by Ireland, Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said.

Speaking at the end of a weekly cabinet meeting, Mr Balkenende described the apparent No vote by the Irish to the European Union reform treaty as 'disappointing'.

The Dutch lower house of parliament approved ratification of the treaty on 5 June.

The Head of the Socialist Grouping in the European Parliament has said he is very worried about the information coming from Ireland.

Speaking in Brussels, German MEP Martin Schulz said that if there is a no vote in Ireland it will be one of the biggest problems in the European Union for a long time.

He said that it is now up to the Irish Government to explain to Europe how we should proceed.

Mr Schulz said he thinks the other states should also openly say if they want this union in this style, or another one.

He added that there should open a debate about the future of the European Union with those states who want to deepen the integration.

He said that perhaps those states who do not want to deepen the integration should not be included.

We need a catharsis in the European Union, he said.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbonreax.html

quote>

Lisbon No vote: What happens next?

Friday, 13 June 2008 17:14

With Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon Treaty, politicians and pundits in Ireland and across Europe are talking about what will happen next.

Justice Minister Dermot Ahern has said 'We are in uncharted territory'.

It is unclear exactly what course the EU and Ireland will follow.

But the ratification process in other countries looks set to continue.

The ratification of the European Union's Lisbon Treaty must continue in other member states despite Ireland's rejection in a referendum, European Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso has said.

'The ratification process is made up of 27 national processes, 18 member states have already approved the treaty, and the European Commission believes that the remaining ratifications should continue to take their course,' Mr Barroso told journalists.

France's European affairs minister Jean-Pierre Jouyet said the EU could negotiate a 'legal arrangement' with Ireland to avert a crisis.

But he agreed, along with other European leaders who have made statements, that 'the most important thing is that the ratification process must continue in the other countries.'

'Then we shall see with the Irish what type of legal arrangement could be found,' the French minister said.

Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek warned that the Irish result would lead to 'political complications'.

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said even with a No vote on the Lisbon Treaty, the EU would look for ways to bring the treaty into effect. He said the referendum in Ireland won't disqualify the treaty.

Antonio Missiroli of the European Policy Centre think-tank said the vote triggered a European political crisis that required strong leadership in Ireland, in Brussels and key member states.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen appeared to rule out a second referendum during the campaign. The fact that Ireland has already been made to vote again once after it rejected the Nice treaty in 2001 makes the idea improbable, but not impossible.

In the short term, the Irish vote means the new positions of a permanent president of the European Council of EU leaders and a stronger foreign policy chief with a real diplomatic service will be delayed.

The EU will be weakened internationally, notably in dealings with difficult powers such as Russia and Iran, by having to limp on with dysfunctional foreign policy and defence institutions, and by the sheer loss of face, diplomats said.

Pending legislation to fight climate change, promote energy efficiency and open the EU internal energy market to more competition should not be delayed by the Irish vote, they said.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbon2.html

quote>

International media watches Lisbon results

Friday, 13 June 2008 16:45

Around the world, from Turkey to China to Qatar, people are hearing about Ireland's historic vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum.

Responses vary, from Eurosceptics thanking the Irish voters for their No vote to bureaucrats worried that the unwieldy EU might collapse with Ireland's rejection.

It is too early for detailed opinions, with most media just reporting the latest tallies so far, but bloggers are wading in and editors are preparing weekend opinion pieces.

The mainstream press is framing Ireland's No vote as a crisis, and pointing out the implications for a great many of the vote by a few.

'Ireland's rejection of the Lisbon Treaty leaves the EU - whose leaders meet for a summit in Brussels next week - facing a new crisis like that which followed the 2005 rejection of the formal constitution,' The Times in London says on its website.

'It also means that 3m voters have effectively decided the fate of a bloc of almost 500m people.'

The New York Times uses similar language in its web story.

'In a significant setback for efforts to reform Europe's unwieldy institutions, a senior Irish official said Friday that voters had rejected a revised European Union treaty designed to change the way the bloc governs itself and presents itself to the world.

'If that outcome is confirmed in official results, it will mean that the 27-member bloc will be in turmoil, its latest attempt to reform stymied by less than 1% of its population of almost 500m.'

The UK's Daily Telegraph, which has campaigned hard for a similar referendum to be put to the British, to no avail, says:

'Should Ireland say 'no' to the Lisbon Treaty today, the decision could kill the painstakingly-negotiated pact stone dead. '

In the generally more anarchic world of the bloggers, the likely No vote is being celebrated, especially in Britain.

'The bureaucratic bog known as the European Union has been dealt another slap across the chops,' a British blogger said.

'Here in Britain under Commandant Brown we find it quaint that a nation should actually be allowed to have an opportunity to express its opinion on something that affects their liberty.'

Another blogger heads his post: 'Cranky Irish Voters Reject EU Reform Treaty'.

See full coverage of the Lisbon Treaty referendum at RTÉ.ie/lisbon.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisboninternational.html

quote>

We're in uncharted territory now; everyone is wondering what the EU plans to do now...

[Craig91 12]

I have to say this is very disappointing....

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: GMT

god I love the european union... I'm counting the days till I finally leave this piece of land towards a more livable placequote>

Same ,well, in 4 years time for me

Lately, everytime I open a newspaper and see an article related to the EU I'm conpletely disappointed by it. Did you read the last one? EU plans controlling blogs...

[belfastuniguy 18]

Its very disappointing.

However I think the main reason for the NO result was the arrogance of the government in believing they would win without having to educate the Irish people about the Treaty.

I think the vote will happen again but only after maybe a year of informing the people about the treaty itself.

[Craig91 12]

belfastuniguy: Problem is it has to be ratified by all member states by the end of the year, so maybe another vote in a couple of months.

I think the problem is, the NO side were, quite frankly, making up a load of BS about why the treaty is bad and trying to scare people. Then, no one could really understand the reasons for voting yes because Lisbon only changes loads of minor things that would seem insignificant if there wasn't somebody saying ''this is gonna bring us to war'' or ''this is undemocratic'' etc, etc, etc. I think it's a very sad day when the majority of Irish people agree with Sinn Fein, an anti-EU party, on anything of this importance. When 90% of the people elected to run the country tell the population a Yes vote is good and the people still vote no, it just shows they were scared and worried if all this crap from the No side might be true

[belfastuniguy 18]

I agree the No campaign said some completely inaccurate things and made false statements, people got confused and the government not providing enough information only furthered that confusion.

[toxicpiano 125]

Whether you agree with the way the campaigns have been fought or not, I think it would be quite insulting to the Irish if there was to be another vote. The EU took the French and Dutch No votes as the end of the constitution, and to simply say to Ireland, well sorry we didn't like the answer, try again is really very rude and quite uncomplementary.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Its happened before.

Some people would argue that it would be rather rude for the Irish vote be the final say and go against the wishes of 26 other members that have or will ratify. Some would say why should such a small place destroy what those national governments have worked toward. (Emphasis on the word 'some' - do not interpret that as 'I')

I agree another vote may annoy some, but I think another vote is exactly what's going to happen, just as what happened with the Nice Treaty. Ireland will maybe be given a concession or two and the people better informed and then the second vote will happen.

[krbe 193]

THe problem with the treaty is that they're contradicting themselves. How does the Union become more democratic and transparent when it takes 269 pages to say so? The treaty itself doesn't say much; when art. 1(53) just says 'Articles 41 and 42 [of the Treaty on the European Union] shall be repealed.', what is it that is being repealed? If repealing the Treaty on the European Union and writing the changes into a new treaty in full, is the same as the EU Constitution, it serves them right to see the shooting it down. If it is not the EU Constitution, why not make it the treaty more transparent and make the roles of the institutions clearer? The you could say 'This is what you got now; this is what you get if you approve the new treaty. We've even marked the changes from the old one clearly' instead of 'This is what you got now; if you approve this new treaty, you'll have both that one, plus the changes in this one, minus the articles repealed. Please see your local library for both treaties or get the treaty and the consolidated version of the Treaty on the European Union on the Europa web site. Be aware that you'll have to hunt the old Treaty down yourself as we can't be bothered to show you the lines that's being erased for example.'.

[Aontan 0]

Some people would argue that it would be rather rude for the Irish vote be the final say and go against the wishes of 26 other members that have or will ratify.

quote>

Some people would argue that it's rather rude for the other 26 governments not to allow their people a chance to vote on the treaty.

Anyway, the Taoiseach and other government ministers have said that a second referendum on the Treaty in it's current form is "unlikely" and indeed many political parties are against it; the Labour Party saying they might campaign against it if there is another referendum.

They might renegociate confusing parts of the treaty and then put it to another vote next year; namely confirmation of Ireland's position on tax, neutrality, social issues and other issues.

As mentioned before, this happened with the Nice Treaty, in which the Seville Agreement added in a specific mention for Irish neutrality and the second referendum passed  62.9% to 37.1%.

[fern244 1]

Yes! Go Ireland. First day im proud to be Irish. Good to see them being independent.

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Aontan

Some people would argue that it would be rather rude for the Irish vote be the final say and go against the wishes of 26 other members that have or will ratify.

quote>

Some people would argue that it's rather rude for the other 26 governments not to allow their people a chance to vote on the treaty.

quote>

Usually, european people doesn't want to be united in any way, the EU would have never existed with referendums, you can't simply say "yes" or "no" in such complicated papers.

Does your government make a referendum on each decision it takes? No?

There wouldn't be any government that way...

That's what democracy is for