What do you think of the seal hunt?

[nihonkaranws 88]

I am not a citizen of Canada, but I am associated with the country due to it being home to many of my relatives, and so I visit at least thrice a year. In a short matter of time, Newfoundland's annual seal hunt will begin, where they kill approximately 300 000 baby seals in order to sell their hides to the fancy clothing market. Europe, one of the trade's biggest customers, has apparently canceled the purchase of the seal hides, but the problem is not yet resolved. In my honest opinion, the murder of 300 000 baby seals is a disgusting and inhumane act, and I would like anyone who agrees with me on this to go to StopTheSealHunt.ca and contribute (no money needed).

What's your opinion on this situation? Discuss...

[Glenni 1,447]

Why is hunting seal any more disgusting than eating a dog? Or a cat? Lambs are pretty cute too, yet we kill them and eat them. So what is then the big deal of seals? Culture is culture...

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

It depends. I'm no expert on the matter, if these seals are an endangered species then it is wrong. If not, it is no different to hunting and killing any other animal.

In many ways these seals have a better life than most animals that are kept for meat, where they will be kept in tiny cages and force-fed. Why not focus on, for example, pig farming. This is surely far more inhumane than seal-hunting, yet is accepted as common practice so no one really cares.

I see on this website the slogan is 'Get angry for the right reasons'. Perhaps the right reasons to get angry is about the human rights abuses going on around the world rather than the minor, in proportion, issues of animals rights. 

[Micah 16]

If they're endangered, then I agree... we shouldn't kill them.

But, if they're not, then that's like India protesting against us for eating cows!

[farmer-alex 2]

They have hunted Seal out in Canada for Centuries. Without the Hunt fish stocks would dramatically drop.

The Fur Industry creates 1000s of Jobs, and is a multi million

[patriots_1228 51]

300,000 baby seals is nothing in comparison to what is happening in darfur. Sure, its not somthing i'd support, but i don't see why we should get enraged about killing baby seals when people are being slaughtered.

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

On a side note: are you, nihonkaranws, a vegetarian?

[Odainsaker 2,136]

On the other hand, even if they were not endangered, I would not support ivory farms raising elephants and rhinos simply and solely to saw off and harvest their profitable tusks. It's disturbing enough even if maybe necessary to slaughter such animals industrially for food; it's another needless level to kill them primarily for fancy designer clothes, useless decorations, or, gosh, even mere sport. Of course, even grinding up certain insects for their dye colors kinda, well, bugs me.

[farmer-alex 2]

Everyone to their own though.

I think people have become so un attached to our roots.

Humans are top dogs in this World. It is our duty to protect the animals, I agree with.

But the animals are all part of the Big Food Chain.

Without farming, our countryside would be a mess.

Well put simply.. we wouldnt have a countryside like we do now.

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

So it is part of the food chain to kill foxes for fun?

It is part of the food chain to raise animals in cages where they have no room to move?

It is natural for us to force feed animals to satisfy the fat profits of supermarkets?

As for it protecting the countryside,

Without farming our countryside would be wonderful. I live on the edge of the peak district to luckily I'm near to an area that is protected from farming. But frankly all you see in the British countryside is field after identical field, hardly the most enjoyable of views.

I'm not saying that farming isn't necessary, of course it is, but that doesn't mean farms can get away with killing animals for fun.

I realize I'm rather contradicting my earlier post, but I feel that although the killing of seals for fashion is wrong it's hardly the biggest problem the world currently faces.

It's disturbing enough even if maybe necessary to slaughter such animals industrially for foodquote>

In fact, if the whole world went vegetarian there would be much more food for everyone, and with modern food stuffs like Quorn you can easily get the food stuffs you would otherwise get from meat.

[farmer-alex 2]

Without Farmers you wont have half the wildlife you have in our wonderful countryside.

People forget that "The Countryside" is the biggest Industrial Estate the World has.

The countryside is a working enviroment, a human sytem that hasnt changed for 1000s of years. (apart from the paper work our thoughtful Government has placed upon us)

You may not agree with Fox Hunting, but it happens. Allways has, allways will.

Hunting is an essential part of the Countryside.

It is like a pyramid of Cards...

Take one card out and all the Rest will topple. I cant explain the connections between all the different roles in the countryside on this Forum. But if you ever want to see the real countryside, you are allways welcome to our farm for a chat.

The countryside is complex, we do not need to be told by townies what to do.

Corrr what a Ramble. With all of the Human Rights problems in the World at the moment and we are instead all talking about animal rights and cultures.

[belfastuniguy 18]

While I disapprove of such acts I do understand the reasons behind the hunt. The Canadian authorities are making sure the hunt is more humane this time and that I can support.

I do not support the killing of rare and endangered species like Whales, elephants but these seals are not endangered and are vast in number and so I understand why it takes place.

Without farming our countryside would be wonderfulquote>

Agreed. I think we should do as we currently do and employ people to look after the countryside and not farm it. Though you can not just ban farming, food production would suffer terribly. Farming in some areas is fine, but not in all.

The Fur Industry creates 1000s of Jobsquote>

That's not an excuse, while I would support for food and fish stocks I will not support just killing seals for the sake of a hat or gloves, yes the by-product from food can be used but not the killing of seals just for fur.

[farmer-alex 2]

The By-product of Seal Hunting is to keep Fish Stocks high...

As I said in my last post, our countryside without farming would be... well there wouldnt be a countryside as you know it.

It is just inpractical.

And I do find it quite narrow minded (no offence ment) that anyone can actually seriously think that the countryside, and all the history and traditions and livlihoods that go with it, would be better without farming and Hunting.

Thats beyond me.

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

Originally posted by: farmer-alex

Corrr what a Ramble. With all of the Human Rights problems in the World at the moment and we are instead all talking about animal rights and cultures.quote>

Yes, fair point, but considering this is merely a forum about some random computer game it hardly matters a jiffy what we choose to discuss.

Without Farmers you wont have half the wildlife you have in our wonderful countryside.

People forget that "The Countryside" is the biggest Industrial Estate the World has.quote>

I'm not saying that the countryside, with farms and all, is a bad thing, but it's hardly an endangered enviroment, unlike the woodlands and other habitats that it consumes.

The countryside is a working enviroment, a human sytem that hasnt changed for 1000s of years. (apart from the paper work our thoughtful Government has placed upon us)quote>

What about the advent of pesticides, herbicides, factory farming, computer controlled climate greenhouses? And without government subsidies most farms would be out of buisness by now.

You may not agree with Fox Hunting, but it happens. Allways has, allways will. quote>

It has not always happened and it certainly should not continue to happen.

The countryside is complex, we do not need to be told by townies what to do. quote>

Unfortunatly we live in a democracy, and there aren't seprate rules for 'townies' and farmers.

The decision to ban the hunting of foxes for sport was decision taken by the elected government. If you choose to continue to hunt you are breaking the lawm, just like any other criminal.

[hamsterTK 93]

Why is hunting seal any more disgusting than eating a dog? Or a cat? Lambs are pretty cute too, yet we kill them and eat them. So what is then the big deal of seals? Culture is culture...quote>

yeah I agree

to be honest sometimes I think it is kind of disturbing how veal and foie gras is made but besides that this kind of thing doesnt really bother me

[farmer-alex 2]

- The Woodlands are managed quite effectively by Gamekeepers. Gamekeepers and Farmers go hand in hand.

If you dont know what a Gamekeeper does, google it. Basically Gamekeepers protect the Woodlands for Shooting purposes.

The Hunt also plays a part in protecting our woodlands. Most Hunts in GB own Covets.

- I have to agree with you about the Pesticides and that lot. Completely against it. And so are most farners. Unfortunately many have been forced (by the consumer) to produce as much as they can, for as little money as they can. Same goes for Factory Farming. Since Free Range has become the in thing, the production of free range chickens and eggs has shot up!

- As for Government Subsidies, if it wernt for the Gov opening up World Competition and telling us what to do, we would be in a better financial state. The Gov also realises that the Countryside brings in so much money for the Country, and so needs to protct it. What about Northern Rock?...

- Fox Hunting is a Traditional Great British Sport that has happened for many Centuries. The elected Government is prejudice against our Countryside Culture...

so are you by the sounds of it.

If Gays were treated in the same way as Hunters are today, there would be uproar in this Country!

If Muslims were treated in the same way as Hunters are today, there would be uproar!

Just because we are a minority, does not mean that we should be pushed about and told what to do.

Do you not agree with that ?

* Just like to add, that Fox Hunting does carry on in some parts of the Country, and has more Support than ever before.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Countryside brings in so much money for the Countryquote>

False....I suggest you go and look at the make-up of the UK economy and look at overall agriculture contribution to the economy versus subsidy and farming support....

If Gays were treated in the same way as Hunters are today, there would be uproar in this Country!quote>

Oh please don't give the farmer hard luck story. Farmers get billions and billions from the UK government and Europe over 40% of the entire EU Budget and yet contribute as little as about 1-3% (can't remember exact figure) to the overall EU Economy.

[Snowloch 0]

I live in Nova Scotia. The northern part of my province takes part in the annual seal hunt, and quite frankly I am all for it. When your only way of life is either hunt seals, or pack up your family and move, then you hunt seals. For the people that do it it's the only life they know. They don't just use the furs "for the fancy cloths market", they use the meat also for food. How's that any different than slaughtering cows/pigs/lambs for food? At least the seals aren't kept in captivity. You say you're not a citizen of Canada, and you probably have never been anywhere near Atlantic Canada, so try maybe investigating the 'flavour of the month' a little further before spouting off.

Originally posted by: TheQuiltedLlama In fact, if the whole world went vegetarian there would be much more food for everyone, and with modern food stuffs like Quorn you can easily get the food stuffs you would otherwise get from meat.quote>

 

Do you also know how much forest around the world would be eliminated, and how much wildlife would be extinct, just to clear land for cultivation?

[farmer-alex 2]

Just shows how much you really know aboot the Countryside.

You get your ideas about the countryside from facts and figures.

I get mine from real experience of living in it all my life...

When you see family and freinds go through depression and commit suicide because they cant afford to run their dairy herd that has been in their family for 4 generations then come back and tell me what it is really like to live in the countryside.

[coolotter88 2]

what did the baby seal say when it waddled into the club?

nothing, it just died. hahahaha...

If It helps the people living there, I wouldn't mind it if it went on.

[belfastuniguy 18]

You get your ideas about the countryside from facts and figures.

I get mine from real experience of living in it all my life... quote>

Well that's great, I'll remember that the next time I look at my payslip and see my tax deductions...or read about farmers polluting rivers and the countryside itself. Or see money being spent on farmers instead of hospitals, schools, infrastructure both at national and European level.

When you see family and freinds go through depression and commit suicide because they cant afford to run their dairy herd that has been in their family for 4 generations then come back and tell me what it is really like to live in the countryside.quote>

While that's terrible, its not my problem to be frank. While I understand that farmers don't have an easy life what I do not appreciate is the constant moaning for more money and subsidy and the belief some have and the one you have displayed is that the country owes them a living for 'maintaining the countryside' and contributing a great deal to the economy.

Seeing as you have not bothered to look at figures (I'm an economist so that is what I do). The UK Agriculture, fishing, hunting and forestry sectors only contribute roughly 2% of overall UK GDP. That's about 12 billion pounds some economic calculations have it about only 10 billion, its not that much at all. UK farmer receive roughly 4-5 billion from the EU CAP and another couple of billion direct from UK taxpayers through the Treasury.

So the contribution is not that great, maybe a net contribution of about 2 billion which in terms of national economy is virtually nothing.

[farmer-alex 2]

Most Farmers dont want subsidies...

We just want to get on with our lives, stop being told what to do by people like yourself, and make a living.

Polluting Rivers?

What about our Manufacturing Industries...

[crazyyaya 4]

Originally posted by: Glenni Why is hunting seal any more disgusting than eating a dog? Or a cat? Lambs are pretty cute too, yet we kill them and eat them. So what is then the big deal of seals? Culture is culture...quote>

 

Yes, but It's more a matter of econmics than culture. You can't forget that peoples lively hoods reply on this, as inhumane it may be.

[Bumdark 3]

I'd be all for killing seals if it was solely for their meat, to eat and etc. But meat counts very low for their deaths (somewhere about 5-10%), and the rest of them are killes solely for their pelts and etc.

Anytime animals are being killed to create fashion accessories... just sickens me to think we'd feel great and proud by wearing furs torn from innocent animals' backs.

People often say (as in this very thread) that killing seals is just like killing rats and other sorts of vermin, so why do we cry about it? ... and etc.

Uh, hellooooo... Vermin are just that – vermin. We kill vermin, because they're bad for us. They propagate sicknesses, they destroy our goods, they eat our foods, etc. That' why I'd be for killing vermin. But you can't possibly compare that to killing seals, who, as far as I've heard, the only bad thing they've done to us is perhaps eat some of our fish. (But when we start to think the fish belong to us and not them, then it's US who have the serious problem in our heads...)

Someone also compared killing seals to eating cats and dogs. I admit to completely fail to see the comparaison. Sure, cats and dogs are eaten by Chinese and similar people as delicacies (turns away to barf, being a dog and cat-lover), but as stated above, Seals aren't killed for meat, but for pelts and skins, as those are the most exported of the chases around the world (from Canada in particular).

When killing seals will be solely for their meats, I'll be all for it (though I'll still feel a pang or two at thinking about slaughtering such beautiful creatures), but while we keep at it just for their furs and skins, I'll be one of the strongest anti-seal-hunts advocates around.

I mean, sure, some eat seal meat, can't blame them (what for?), but meat counts for, as stated above, 5-10% of the total hunts that go around...

[belfastuniguy 18]

What about our Manufacturing Industries... quote>

Well if you can find many of those on the UK you would be lucky and the fact the majority of new facilities are properly maintained and do not use many dangerous chemicals and have modern waste management facilities in line with both UK and EU law. Farmers continue to spread pesticide, fertilliser and god knows what onto fields which is then washed into rivers, killing fish, native plants and polluting water supply.

Most Farmers dont want subsidies...

We just want to get on with our lives, stop being told what to do by people like yourself, and make a living. quote>

Yet farmers still happy take them, some even take more than they should...and they make sure they voice their opinion when reform to farming subsidies are planned or mentioned.

If they don't want them then why not hand them back???

I and many others have a perfect right to voice out views, every UK and European tax payer does.....be good to remember that and we are also the people that buy the products farmers produce. I support farming by means of organic and free range foods in addition to shopping at St. Georges Market in Belfast which has wonderful fresh food. But what I don't like is farmers complaining about how terrible things are.

I would personally abolish the CAP, giving money to those that engage in environment protection projects as well as allowing fairer trade within Europe and access to Europe from foreign farmers, particularly African where the CAP has destroyed many farmers lives.

[Snowloch 0]

So then by your logic Bumdark, we shouldn't eat or kill an animal because it's cute?  Seals destroy local fish stock.  So even though I wouldn't call seals vermin myself, then certainly can be considered such.

BTW, I'd like you to cite where you're getting this 5-10% statistic.  Did you know that 34% of statistics are usually made up?

[ilikehotdogsalot 311]

I think this debate is about seals, not farmers. Let's get back on topic, guys.

[belfastuniguy 18]

It's a tangent, it happens, especially when specific points need to be addressed

Anyway its interesting

[njdevi66 12]

I find it funny how people think we have a right to kill another creature. A seal killed for its meat to feed a family, im all for it, but to kill a seal so some expensive item is stupid. I also find it funny how we call the fish ours and not the seals, any fish/mammal who lives in the oceans have more rights to the fish then we do, we steal it. I look forward to hearing down the road where some huge shark bites someone or kills someone b/c their main food source the (Seals) are gone. Lets not forget the hunting of sharks, the top of the food chain that tries to keep order in our seas is always being hunted as well. Anyway, im against this if its just for their hides and skins, but of course they will say its all just for the meat, since when does any corporation tells the truth or our government.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Bumdark

I'd be all for killing seals if it was solely for their meat, to eat and etc. But meat counts very low for their deaths (somewhere about 5-10%), and the rest of them are killes solely for their pelts and etc.quote>

Before the age of industrialised farming, few, if any, animals were killed solely for food purpose. Usually the whole animal would be utilised; food, clothing, heating. To kill an animal for one purpose only is bad enough, even if it's just for food.

Besides, the prices for seal meat are atrocious. I think we could need more supply of them.