The Official Second Amendment / Gun Ban Thread

[FreewayofFlight 41]

Pepsi71ocean: I am going to go out on a limb and assume you have/had military or law enforcement experience. If so, you would be able to assess a serious situation quickly and take appropriate action toward an attacker. However; if someone like myself, with no training, were to be in possession of a gun and tried to thwart a criminal, I would likely become a victim. Anyone who is carrying a concealed weapon and is not properly trained to handle a life-threatening situation, could freeze and shoot the wrong person, or get themselves shot.

General Audience:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/O2ducleoEXU (Tried to get the video to show up here, but can't get to work)

  Edited June 22, 2011 by FreewayofFlight  

[hummer0328 6]

Wyoming recently passed a law allowing CCW without a permit. It was pretty controversial, even in the most republican state in the country. Personally, I'm not too worried about it, considering our relatively low population, low crime, etc. I have no problems with CCW, but there should be training involved. IMHO I would still take a class, even if I didn't have to. The info is invaluable to anyone wanting to carry. They teach you more than just how to shoot. Most of it is teaching you how to diffuse potential situations, and lots of legal stuff so you don't get yourself into trouble.

As far as overall gun laws go, I don't see anything wrong with legal gun ownership or CCW (w/ training). It's rarely the law abiding gun owner you have to worry about anyways. However, there are reasons I don't go hunting in highly populated states. I just don't trust some of those suburban hunters with too little experience who will shoot at anything that moves. Nearly every hunter I meet around here in Wyoming has been hunting since they were old enough to pick up a .22.

I do think gun ownership can help keep crime down. I live in a city of about 60000, but we do have our share of crime. It's not the same thing as a big city, but legal gun ownership definitely acts as a determent against crime. You would have to be nuts to go breaking into somebody's house around here. But most gun owners I know aren't really to worried about personal defense. They own guns to hunt, have some fun at the shooting range, or just like to collect. I think the average gun owner has become very stereotyped by the media into something they are not.

[pepsi71ocean 2]

Well, my friend, if you've never been in a fire fight, I hope you can keep your head and shoot well. I'd feel safer with your around, but this kind of thing just isn't in our culture.

i have been in firefights, a few actually. i did post it up i think but maybe it didn't post?

Anyways for a while back in 2007 2008 i was bringing sport fishing boats back and forth between central America and the US, i have been in a few firefights, 1 boarding, but 90% of them it is who can fly the most lead in 30 seconds wins.

Almost gentlemen like when you fight the pirates from haiti, cuba area, and then go through it again when you get down by Panama(when you go through the Canal.

It's a good thing you won. These guys want boats for drug running, and simply deep-six the crew if they win. It is getting to the point where you can't take a private yacht though there outside a flotilla guarded by a gun boat. Something like the eastern Med. International yachtin in some areas is getting to be very risky.

i remember a sail boat got taken, we picked up the the oweners of the sail boat, they were lucky that the pirates took the boat and didn't kill the crew, the crew had interesting stories to tell, i feel bad for the wife though, she saw some serious action. I remember them asking why they didn't come after us, and i said that they most likely did as we were attacked earlier but after a 5 mins gun battle they just gave up and sped off towards our bow, and i figured they ran across that sail boat. None of the 3 ppl on the sailboat had any guns at all.

  Edited June 22, 2011 by pepsi71ocean  

[pepsi71ocean 2]

Pepsi71ocean: I am going to go out on a limb and assume you have/had military or law enforcement experience. If so, you would be able to assess a serious situation quickly and take appropriate action toward an attacker. However; if someone like myself, with no training, were to be in possession of a gun and tried to thwart a criminal, I would likely become a victim. Anyone who is carrying a concealed weapon and is not properly trained to handle a life-threatening situation, could freeze and shoot the wrong person, or get themselves shot.

General Audience:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/O2ducleoEXU (Tried to get the video to show up here, but can't get to work)

I do have training i spend a long time at a Military Academy, i also was a member of the center fire club in high school, by the time i graduated high school, i have (i want to say), over 8,000 rounds downrange. I also was a security guard at the casino's in AC when i got out, which got me to my other job moving boats around, i didn't lie when i told my parents i was a first mate on a boat, i just never told them i was a hired gun as well. The captain was quite blunt when he said there is a good chance you will get shot at, we go alot of places, and i have been through alot of places in the Caribbean, and the Gulf of Mexico, even the Pacific ocean, i have to say it was the best 2 years of my life.

Wyoming recently passed a law allowing CCW without a permit. It was pretty controversial, even in the most republican state in the country. Personally, I'm not too worried about it, considering our relatively low population, low crime, etc. I have no problems with CCW, but there should be training involved. IMHO I would still take a class, even if I didn't have to. The info is invaluable to anyone wanting to carry. They teach you more than just how to shoot. Most of it is teaching you how to diffuse potential situations, and lots of legal stuff so you don't get yourself into trouble.

As far as overall gun laws go, I don't see anything wrong with legal gun ownership or CCW (w/ training). It's rarely the law abiding gun owner you have to worry about anyways. However, there are reasons I don't go hunting in highly populated states. I just don't trust some of those suburban hunters with too little experience who will shoot at anything that moves. Nearly every hunter I meet around here in Wyoming has been hunting since they were old enough to pick up a .22.

I do think gun ownership can help keep crime down. I live in a city of about 60000, but we do have our share of crime. It's not the same thing as a big city, but legal gun ownership definitely acts as a determent against crime. You would have to be nuts to go breaking into somebody's house around here. But most gun owners I know aren't really to worried about personal defense. They own guns to hunt, have some fun at the shooting range, or just like to collect. I think the average gun owner has become very stereotyped by the media into something they are not.

I agree, people should take CCW courses, look i can tell you that it is one thing to shoot at a paper target, but i know for a fact that alot of people might have qualms about shooting at someone, especially when you shoot to kill. Me i killed enough people it doesn't bother me at all, but then again my baptism in fire was quite different, the big difference is i think anyone who is going to CCW needs to spend alot of time at the range, and they need to undergo mental training so they can deal with the stresses involved.

The last thing you need is a soccer mom killing a mugger then killing herself because she can't deal with the "burden", of her actions. Those i believe shouldn't have CCW.

And as stated earlier, no one robs houses here because everyone owns shotguns, and whenever people get shot here its usually city drug addicts who find out how things go out here. There was about 3 of them that broke into the local deli, tried to steal the cash register, and ATM machine, but left 4,000 dollars in cigarets, and Oh wait the cash box sitting in the next room

I remember when the guy down the road was robbed, he shot and killed one of the robbers, the other one died a few hours later, but point is, they came in and tried to steal jewelry and money, and when the homeowener presented him self the addict tried to rush him and he pulled the trigger, didn't think twice, he called it "like killing a deer", shame it took the staties almost an hour to arrive!

Now what is the difference is that the neighbor down the road has been hunting all his life, and did two torus in Vietnam, he can handle him self in a suituation, now as for the soccer mom, im not going to waste my breath on that one

  Edited June 22, 2011 by pepsi71ocean  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks. That makes my point. I hoped someone would come forward.

Some people think "guns are neat to have", but the real rule is that "guns involve serious responsibility and risk". The point about the unprepared self-defender's burden of guilt is true. Full-blown psychosis can easily follow.

Remember that you can't be a "stand up guy" in the mob unless you have "made your bones". They don't want any people that can't do the necessary.

And so, are we agreed that CCW is very serious for the carrier, and that it shouldn't be allowed without a license and training?

  Edited June 23, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[pepsi71ocean 2]

Thanks. That makes my point. I hoped someone would come forward.

Some people think "guns are neat to have", but the real rule is that "guns involve serious responsibility and risk". The point about the unprepared self-defender's burden of guilt is true. Full-blown psychosis can easily follow.

Remember that you can't be a "stand up guy" in the mob unless you have "made your bones". They don't want any people that can't do the necessary.

And so, are we agreed that CCW is very serious for the carrier, and that it shouldn't be allowed without a license and training?

I never disagreed with you, but my point is that most states that have CCW, require some sort of training to get CCW, the ones that are exempt are ak, AZ and VT.

I went on board fully knowing that there was a risk, and at the time (my high school sweetheart dumped me), so i had nothing to loose (back then in my mind), so i was the best candidate for it, i went in knowing what i had to do and i was prepared, now did my preparedness i had my training from the academy to help focous and hone my skills, and my dedication was unquestionable, i have shot center fire, trap and skeet, tactical shoots etic since i was about 12. I was shooting BB guns and playing war when i was 12.

So i knew what i was doing, when i decided to retire from doing this it was because i found as girl, and i had finally decided to change careers, there is no future as a hired gun, so i came back got a part time job at Target till i could get my foot in the door at brinks, and now i drive an armored car, and yes i carry a gun still but from the looks of it it seems way safer then free lancing on a boat.

I also collect firearms now, i do take them out shooting, and to competition. I still have my toys but i have found that collecting them, and teaching the next generation how to handle firearms properly is on the top of my list.

And back to why i remembered to post here(after simtropolis wouldn't let me login).

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-21-2011/the-fast-and-the-furious---mexico-grift

Jon Stewart couldn't have said it better.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Seems if I want to watch that clip, I have to get it from another site. They've got Canadian sites blocked. Must have had a copyright problem or got censored by the CRTC.

I wish the states that don't insist on CCW training the good of their intentions.

[pona12 3]

I personally think,that regulation,not an outright ban should be instilled.Violent and Felon offenders shouldnt be allowed to have guns,nor should the mentally instable.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I personally think,that regulation,not an outright ban should be instilled.Violent and Felon offenders shouldnt be allowed to have guns,nor should the mentally instable.

Perfectly sensible. Know any politicians who would listen?

[pepsi71ocean 2]

I personally think,that regulation,not an outright ban should be instilled.Violent and Felon offenders shouldnt be allowed to have guns,nor should the mentally instable.

Read the gun laws, and then get back to me, because Felons, and violent offenders and mentally unstable people are not allowed to have them, that is what Brady act was for, but of course not all states will provide the requested information.

Jared Laughtner was on the list and denied a gun at the first store, but the second gun dealer was crooked and sold him the gun anyways.

I personally think,that regulation,not an outright ban should be instilled.Violent and Felon offenders shouldnt be allowed to have guns,nor should the mentally instable.

Perfectly sensible. Know any politicians who would listen?

I wanna

[Munchiez 74]

I'd like to have some cool stuff to say here, as many or some of you guys who know me I am 13 and I was given a .22 caliber semi automatic rifle made by Marlin Firearms. I have the model 60, one of the infamous guns made by Marlin. Now my point here is I would like others to know that there are responsible people in this world and others who ruin it for people like me. I was taught the basics of gun ownership and saftey by my grandfather who is 83 haha, he owns many hunting rifles (P.S We live in the great state of Virginia) and he showed me how to load,put safety and the big rules of never pointing it at someone. The local WhiteTop police officers are happy with my responsibility as I can carry this rifle in my front yard and my large acres of farm land we have. I really enjoy the fact that I have the maturity to own a real firearm and sometimes people would think that kids should not own firearms. I agree a lot, IF they don't get trained and are not mature enough. Some kids get guns without asking and go on killing sprees,suicides and gang killings. I love my rifle and think its great I can have one!

[Meg 368]

I'm glad you are being responsible. I think you said a key phrase: "large acres of farm land we have". Carrying rifles in urban and suburban areas is a lot different.

You have an excellent point that training is important. We require training before we let people drive a car; it seems logical to me to require safety courses in firearms.

[Munchiez 74]

I'm glad you are being responsible. I think you said a key phrase: "large acres of farm land we have". Carrying rifles in urban and suburban areas is a lot different.

You have an excellent point that training is important. We require training before we let people drive a car; it seems logical to me to require safety courses in firearms.

Thank you Meg! I think that it is waaaayyyyy to dangerous for some uneducated kid/teen/adult to handle firearms because they don't know what they are doing but only know that if you pull the trigger it will shoot. People accidentally kill people by not being smart and not checking the barrel and not making sure it's on safety.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Munchiez, you make my argument for firearms in rural areas. Your family is quite responsible, and have passed their principles on to you. I live in a rural area, but I live in town and have no need for a firearm. Having one in a farm area is often a necessity to control vermin. Hopefully, one doesn't have to control the two legged kind.

One would hope that the number of times you need your rifle is small considering that large wild life in your area must be few and far between. The main problem up here in my part of the frozen north is coyotes, which harass sheep and cattle. There is also an occational bear, but these usually stay away from people. We are really out of the large beastie area here, which is somewhat further north. Your small caliber rifle wouldn't be much use against most of the large animals we have here.

Some people around here do hunt for the table. Mostly rabbit and some deer are taken. Both of them are a bit of a nuisance at times and the Ministry of Natural Resources controls hunting, issues permits and quotas, and occasionally authorizes a cull. We don't have any large ungulates such as moose and elk (caribou) in our area.

So, you see, I am not against firearms. What I deplore is some kid taking his Saturday night special to school, or even having one especially if he doesn't know how to strip and clean it, to say nothing about knowing which end is the business end. Of course handguns are "strictly controlled" here in the frozen north. You need to go through a serious set of hand springs including a criminal records check to get one with its permit. That's if you care about being legal.

[Munchiez 74]

Munchiez, you make my argument for firearms in rural areas. Your family is quite responsible, and have passed their principles on to you. I live in a rural area, but I live in town and have no need for a firearm. Having one in a farm area is often a necessity to control vermin. Hopefully, one doesn't have to control the two legged kind.

One would hope that the number of times you need your rifle is small considering that large wild life in your area must be few and far between. The main problem up here in my part of the frozen north is coyotes, which harass sheep and cattle. There is also an occational bear, but these usually stay away from people. We are really out of the large beastie area here, which is somewhat further north. Your small caliber rifle wouldn't be much use against most of the large animals we have here.

Some people around here do hunt for the table. Mostly rabbit and some deer are taken. Both of them are a bit of a nuisance at times and the Ministry of Natural Resources controls hunting, issues permits and quotas, and occasionally authorizes a cull. We don't have any large ungulates such as moose and elk (caribou) in our area.

So, you see, I am not against firearms. What I deplore is some kid taking his Saturday night special to school, or even having one especially if he doesn't know how to strip and clean it, to say nothing about knowing which end is the business end. Of course handguns are "strictly controlled" here in the frozen north. You need to go through a serious set of hand springs including a criminal records check to get one with its permit. That's if you care about being legal.

Yes, I live In Virginia now, moved some time ago and we have farms surrounded with beautiful mountains and the forests surround our farm land too. My grandmother who lives on our land has sheep and some of them where killed a year back by coyotes. That is before I got here, so I do carry my rifle a lot it has a nice sling and I did see some coyotes before and it was really cool. In the fall my uncle and I are going hunting and I really enjoy the great outdoors. So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Munchiez, you make my argument for firearms in rural areas. Your family is quite responsible, and have passed their principles on to you. I live in a rural area, but I live in town and have no need for a firearm. Having one in a farm area is often a necessity to control vermin. Hopefully, one doesn't have to control the two legged kind.

One would hope that the number of times you need your rifle is small considering that large wild life in your area must be few and far between. The main problem up here in my part of the frozen north is coyotes, which harass sheep and cattle. There is also an occational bear, but these usually stay away from people. We are really out of the large beastie area here, which is somewhat further north. Your small caliber rifle wouldn't be much use against most of the large animals we have here.

Some people around here do hunt for the table. Mostly rabbit and some deer are taken. Both of them are a bit of a nuisance at times and the Ministry of Natural Resources controls hunting, issues permits and quotas, and occasionally authorizes a cull. We don't have any large ungulates such as moose and elk (caribou) in our area.

So, you see, I am not against firearms. What I deplore is some kid taking his Saturday night special to school, or even having one especially if he doesn't know how to strip and clean it, to say nothing about knowing which end is the business end. Of course handguns are "strictly controlled" here in the frozen north. You need to go through a serious set of hand springs including a criminal records check to get one with its permit. That's if you care about being legal.

Yes, I live In Virginia now, moved some time ago and we have farms surrounded with beautiful mountains and the forests surround our farm land too. My grandmother who lives on our land has sheep and some of them where killed a year back by coyotes. That is before I got here, so I do carry my rifle a lot it has a nice sling and I did see some coyotes before and it was really cool. In the fall my uncle and I are going hunting and I really enjoy the great outdoors. So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

Well, if you shoot at something, be sure you have seen all of it, or enough to know for sure what it is. You can get in real trouble by shooting some nature lover who doesn't know when the hunting season is.

[Meg 368]

So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

Well, actually, you can. That is why hunters wear that bright orange clothing.

but, yeah, it's easier to handle firearms safely in rural areas than it is in urban ones.

[Easy Bakes 253]

So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

Well, actually, you can. That is why hunters wear that bright orange clothing.

but, yeah, it's easier to handle firearms safely in rural areas than it is in urban ones.

not any more, most hunting gear i see now is in green Camo.

Modern Hunting Gear

they dress like snipers nowadays.

  Edited August 4, 2011 by Easy Bakes  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

Well, actually, you can. That is why hunters wear that bright orange clothing.

but, yeah, it's easier to handle firearms safely in rural areas than it is in urban ones.

not any more, most hunting gear i see now is in green Camo.

Modern Hunting Gear

they dress like snipers nowadays.

Obviously a sales ploy. Animals have different color perception, and often their vision is not an issue, but their other senses protect them. Running around in the woods in camouflage in hunting season seems like a good way to get your Darwin award. Don't the hunting regulations specify the international rescue colors for hunters?

[Easy Bakes 253]

So yes, you can't really accidentally kill someone here by shooting off into the woods haha.

Well, actually, you can. That is why hunters wear that bright orange clothing.

but, yeah, it's easier to handle firearms safely in rural areas than it is in urban ones.

not any more, most hunting gear i see now is in green Camo.

Modern Hunting Gear

they dress like snipers nowadays.

Obviously a sales ploy. Animals have different color perception

apparently thats why the bright orange was worn, animals could not see orange except as a brown.

not sure if they have proved that wrong yet. I know Myth busters proved that a matadors red cape didnt affect bulls any more then say a blue one did.It was the motion that enraged them.

[hym 358]

Obviously a sales ploy. Animals have different color perception, and often their vision is not an issue, but their other senses protect them. Running around in the woods in camouflage in hunting season seems like a good way to get your Darwin award.

Depends on the animal. For some animals, wearing orange is like shouting at the animal that you intend to kill it.

Don't the hunting regulations specify the international rescue colors for hunters?

Hunting regulations are the legal domain of the states, and the states set them up differently. Some states require just a hat or a vest, some require both, and some only suggest you wear hunter orange.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Rambling around in nature during hunting season in a suit that is not easily identified as a person is some kind of death wish. Hunters sometimes blaze away at indistinct things that move. I think a coroner's jury would find "death by misadventure" if someone was shot while wearing a camouflage suit in the woods.

[Munchiez 74]

Well the woods in my house and my grandmothers land is all the way up the mountain so If I shoot into the woods its on my property and no hunters are allowed in there because we have a fence. But as always, I am responsible.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well the woods in my house and my grandmothers land is all the way up the mountain so If I shoot into the woods its on my property and no hunters are allowed in there because we have a fence. But as always, I am responsible.

What's the law about fenced land in your bailiwick? Does it have to be posted with a No Trespassing sign?

In some jurisdictions it is sufficient to paint the tops of some of the fence posts red.

[Munchiez 74]

Well the woods in my house and my grandmothers land is all the way up the mountain so If I shoot into the woods its on my property and no hunters are allowed in there because we have a fence. But as always, I am responsible.

What's the law about fenced land in your bailiwick? Does it have to be posted with a No Trespassing sign?

In some jurisdictions it is sufficient to paint the tops of some of the fence posts red.

I am not sure, however we do have no trespassing signs every 6 posts, I walked over and saw them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well the woods in my house and my grandmothers land is all the way up the mountain so If I shoot into the woods its on my property and no hunters are allowed in there because we have a fence. But as always, I am responsible.

What's the law about fenced land in your bailiwick? Does it have to be posted with a No Trespassing sign?

In some jurisdictions it is sufficient to paint the tops of some of the fence posts red.

I am not sure, however we do have no trespassing signs every 6 posts, I walked over and saw them.

That is usually the case. So, now, can we get back to the main topic? Should hand guns be restricted in any way? Assault rifles?

[Pittsburgh Fan 31]

In the UK all guns are banned, the police dont even have any.

I think this is just a little extreme but we do need to regulate guns a lot more than we do.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In the UK all guns are banned, the police dont even have any.

I think this is just a little extreme but we do need to regulate guns a lot more than we do.

The UK cops have regular armed flying squads.

[Larks2242 251]

Good news, progress for protecting our 2nd amendment rights in America, the Maryland judged turned down an unconstitutional move by the government to restrict gun permits.

Link

Now if only we had more judges like that.

  Edited March 7, 2012 by Larks2242  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Good news, progress for protecting our 2nd amendment rights in America, the Maryland judged turned down an unconstitutional move by the government to restrict gun permits.

Link

Now if only we had more judges like that.

In this particular case I agree the homeowner should be armed. The carry-concealed side of it is moot. What he is allowed to carry, IMHO, is not. He should not be allowed to carry an assault weapon such as an Uzzi, but rather something less destructive. I can think of no reason for him to be able to cut a seam through his assailant. Something of knock-down power is all that is needed. He should also be required to be trained and certified, because he needs to know that if you point a gun, you pretty much have to pull the trigger and aim for the center of the target. Guns are not for threatening.