Lunch Area Reform Petition

[Firebird 40]

I had been talking with Ski a few weeks back about something, and she commented on my not-to-spiffy ability to persuade her that i should post a thread in ST Related versus Off Topic, or vice versa.

Then, a day or two later on Friday, something happened at school that gave me the idea, and grounds, to really put my persuasive writing to the test.

Our lunch area at school had been trashed, both by a combined effort of the Team sitting there then, and the Team sitting there before. We don't know who made the most of the mess in the mess hall, but the school staff didn't care. They suspended the ability of every single teacher in my grade level Team to allow their students to sit where they would like, and in the groups they were accustomed to. The teachers were forced to think up assigned seat charts for lunch the next day, and each were totally hated to the fullest extent.

Over the rest of the day, and weekend, i gathered up my friends and collected their opinions on the matter.

They colorfully expressed their hatred at it, and agreed to help me in getting a petition signed to get our preferred seats back, and a letter to the school staff written about their decision to take them away in the first place.

One of my teachers has agreed to send the letter i am posting here to the school principal, and the local times newspaper.

What do you Simtropolians think of it? rofl.

---

Persuasive Letter

It came to our attention on the 28th of November that the Nitro Hawk Team's ability to sit freely within their designated lunch area had been revoked. We do not know the full reasoning behind this decision, however we have come to believe that you had found our lunch area a bit too messy for your taste.

    This was a perfectly executed grownup decision on your part. You really showed your true colors in making it! However, all the facts you don't know, and do not want to spend time to look them up. This, you should do. Let me take you back to a time just after you had made that decision, and through the eyes of a student see what you have caused.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The mass of students flowed out of the auditorium from P.E in swarms it seemed.  Line after endless line, and it seemed like all eternity before I had finally escaped, smashed, through the double doors to the 9th grade stairs. Now, all I needed to do was drop this book off at Ms. Greene's room before heading off to lunch!

    Oh, how I loved lunch on early release days. Right smack dab in the middle of the school day, not even the.... oddly prepared.... cafeteria food could smash the discussion and funness that would occur there.  It was like hanging with your friends on the weekend... only it wasn't the weekend...

    “Ouch! What the..!?” I yelled rubbing my nose “Stooopid door!”

Gaaah! Not again! I had been so absorbed in thinking about  lunch... that I had bumped into that darn door at the end of the 9th grade hallway. 

    Juuust Spiffy.

    I allowed Ms. Greene to lasso her book back as I walked past her to shuffle down the hallway to the 10th grade stairway, to the cafeteria.... and off to dreamland....

    Which was smashed faster than my nose against the 9th grade hallway doors.

    What was this?

    I did not understand.

    What did she say?   

    I would not understand.

    “We can NOT let her do this!” I yelled to my friends currently packing up to move.

    Ms. Green stood blabbering non-sense<

[coolotter88 2]

great, you spelled they're wrong somewhere and...it isn't very professional sounding.

[Firebird 40]

Professional sounding stuff is boring and clich

[your_adress_here 11]

It does if you're trying to get credibility...

[masochist 111]

Some minor things:  I might change the parts about your teachers' "goofed-up, brick-box encased generation."  And get rid of the word emmmoish; that is used almost exclusively by teenagers and won't get you much credibility with the suits.

In my opinion, other than a few spelling mistakes and questionable word choices, I think this is well thought-out argument.  My advice would be to take it to a teacher who agrees with what you're trying to push through.  Not only can they proof-read it for you, but they can give you insight as to what you can throw in that will give you a better chance to change the administration's mind.

[coolotter88 2]

what's emmmoish?

edit: oh, emo-ish not em-oysh.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Or mabey you could take it upon yourselves ( Go Team Nitro Hawk?) to police the area after you eat.

Set an example to the slobs

[OffTopic 3]

You have to stick it to the man! Tell them that you have a voice to! And would emo-ish have 1 m not 3?

[Firebird 40]

One thing that i have noticed with persuasive papers is that those that are written in a very professional manner, with large vocabulary's and such are read, considered, and given a yes or no answer. And thats that.

I had attempted in this one to make the issue stick in the readers head. To get the person reading it to actually put not only their thought into considering the paper, but look much deeper than that in deciding weather to listen to us students, or not.

masochist: Thanks for your suggestions, i think i may just do that.

Easy Bakes: Each grade is given a different team name such as "Nitro Hawk" or "Fire Hawk" It kind of sounds better than just calling them by their grade number.

And thats what i plan on organizing.

[Joesocwork 4]

Without looking at context, I see some grammatical errors. Have a red ink pen on you?

[hamsterTK 93]

I would try being a lot more succint and a lot more friendly.

It needs to sound as mature as possible. I don't mean word choice, I mean how you structure your arguments.

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, let's look at things from the teacher's side here. They don't know and have no way of knowing who exactly was responsible, they only know it was your grade in there at the time. So, of course, they use the age old tactic of "punish everyone and you're guaranteed to get the culprit(s)". I completely agree that assigned seating has nothing to do with messes getting made, at least directly. But it does then mean that the teachers know where everyone is, and if a seat is vacant, they know exactly who's missing. It also means that if it happens again, by knowing where the fight started they'll know who started it.

I know when I was in high school, you were allowed to sit wherever at lunch. There was always a big mess by the end of the lunch period (which involved people from all 4 grades in there at once, since when you went there depended on what class you had that period, not what grade you were in). The janitorial staff would just clean it up and that'd be that. No complaints. Of course, the discipline in my high school was a joke, and I hear from my younger sister who's there now that it's only gotten worse. So the comparison isn't quite fair.

High schoolers are old enough that they shouldn't need assigned seats. It isn't necessary to maintain order. But then again, this doesn't seem to me to be about maintaining order, it seems to be about "well, we had a problem, so now we need to look like we're doing something about it, regardless of whether or not what we're doing actually helps anything". In other words, it's the administration covering their asses. Because after all, when a school becomes troubled, they get blamed, not the students.

[coolotter88 2]

actually certain high schools do assign seats, they're like prison camps, so when something happened, that table where the people sit there every day can be blamed. they were considering assigned seats for my school because of behavioral problems *coughfoodfightscough*.

[your_adress_here 11]

Wow... after reading more thoroughly and reading some comments, the way that your school cafeterias are setup, it almost sounds like elementary school. With that in mind, I've got a couple questions for you guys:

How exactly does your lunch system work? Does everyone have to eat at the cafeteria, either through buying food or bringing your own lunch?

Does every have to ea at the same time?

What kind of liberties are you allowed at lunch? Can you go outside any time you want? Can you leave school grounds?

I'm wondering this because the way you guys have been describing it, it sounds like you don't have much choice about what you do at lunch.

At my school, at lunch you're basically free to do anything at all you want. You can leave school grounds (which many people do to go eat at a nearby McDonalds or Pizza Pizza), you can go to the nearby city park, outside on the football pitch, anything. In the cafeteria, there are often activities organized by the student council (not boring stuff either, one example was a hot pepper eating contest), along with music. You can go to the gym and play a variety of sports, library and go on the computers, there's even a room for gaming consoles. The only two limitations that I can see are that smokers haev to smoke in a designated area off of school grounds, and you get a three day suspension for throwing a snowball.

Wow... I wrote more than I thought I would there...

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Firebird

I had been talking with Ski a few weeks back about something, and she commented on my not-to-spiffy ability to persuade her that i should post a thread in ST Related versus Off Topic, or vice versa. quote>

Odd thing was, I could see an argument for putting it in either place.  Not that you were making a case either way. 

Then, a day or two later on Friday, something happened at school that gave me the idea, and grounds, to really put my persuasive writing to the test.quote>

Okay, let me give you a little feedback here:  if you are trying to persuade someone to do something, it's a bad idea to start off by insulting them.  That usually puts them on the defensive and makes them less inclined to hear you out.

It is much more effective to start out by acknowledging how difficult their job is and then offer a solution that would assist them.  People love to help out anyone who understands how difficult their job is.  Once you sympathize with them, they are much more inclined to help you.

It doesn't have to be heavy, laying-it-on-thick sympathy.    It can be a very low-key, but true, statement, preferably made in the first person. 

If you had started with a statement like "I can see that the school has a problem keeping the cafeteria clean."  you would be acknowledging what the problem is without any form of "sucking up".    You could then offer your group (who is pledging to not be self-centered jerks) as part of the solution.    I believe they would be pleased to get a letter like that.  As it is, they can't be pleased because they are being insulted repeatedly.

[your_adress_here 11]

Now, I'm not usually one to bump threads, but I am very curious about what I asked a couple posts ago, and I know their are plenty of people here qualified to answer.

[Duke87 1,070]

Okay, sure.

Originally posted by: your_adress_here

How exactly does your lunch system work? Does everyone have to eat at the cafeteria, either through buying food or bringing your own lunch?

Does every have to ea at the same time?

What kind of liberties are you allowed at lunch? Can you go outside any time you want? Can you leave school grounds?quote>

It's been two and a half years since I was in high school, but here's the deal at Westhill High School in Stamford, CT:

Lunch takes place in three shifts, all during sixth period, which is the length of one and a half of the other periods. Which shift you go in depends on which classroom you're in for sixth period, meaning kids from all four years are mixed together, and  people in the same year may be seperate. Kids in the first shift go straight to lunch after fifth period, while kids in the second and third shifts go to their sixth period classes. After 20 minutes or so, the monitor in the cafeteria announces it's time to go, and then everyone needs to pack up, get out, and get to their sixth period class before the bell rings a few minutes later or they're tardy. When that bell rings, kids in the second shift leave their stuff in their sixth period class (except any lunch they've packed) and go off to lunch. The teacher leaves and locks the classroom, so they can do this.  Then, similar to the first shift, the cafeteria monitor announces time to go, and they have to get out and go back to their sixth period classes for the second half of them. Then the third shift  leaves their sixth period class upon another midperiod bell and goes to lunch.. They don't get a time to go announcement, though, they just leave when the end of period bell rings an go to their seventh period class).

According to the rules, freshmen, sophomores, and juniors have to eat in one of the two cafeterias, while seniors can eat out in the courtyard. Of course, those rules are never enforced, and plenty of lowerclassmen eat out in the courtyard and get away with it on a regular basis. The rules also prevent you from eating in any other location, though due to overcrowding, you nowadays (this part I'm told from my sister who's there now) have a lot of kids sitting down on the stairs to eat because there's no room for them in the cafeteria. Again, nothing is done about this disciplinewise. This is especially problematic, though, since they often just leave their trash lying on the stairs, which once the bell rings are going to be packed with kids going to/from lunch, so it's a disaster and several lawsuits waiting to happen. There have already been episodes of people slipping/tripping and falling on the garbage, but no one has been seriously hurt (yet). The school campus is completely closed. At no point during the day are you even allowed to leave the building, let alone school grounds (you can go anywhere in the building during your lunchtime so long as you're not eating there). People often complain about going out to their cars to get things and getting in trouble for it. And the other major complaint here was that there was a clear bias in the handing out of detentions. The security guards were all black, and were all friendly and pals with all the black kids. Which meant that black kids could go out to their cars and the security guards would look the other way, but white kids would get in trouble for it. Now, though, no one gets in trouble for it (or so says my sister), since the discipline has become even more of a joke than it was when I was there.

Smoking or drinking anywhere on school grounds is prohibited by Connecticut state law. Of course, most of the students aren't old enough to legally be smoking anyway (18), and none of them are old enough to drink (21). Students cutting classes to go smoke in the bathroom is a common issue, though.

.

[your_adress_here 11]

Wow. Compared to what I'm used to, that almost sounds like prison!

Interesting how they handle who gets to eat when. The way it happens at my school is that the grades 7-8 (Jr. High) eat during what would be 3rd period, and the when they go to class, the grades 9-11 eat. Our lunch hours last 50 minutes, and, as I mentioned before, we basically do whatever we want. About the gaming consoles. I don't think it's that superb. It's a small room with a couple of couches, a t.v. and a N64 and a SNES (although some kids do bring their own from home). What's cool about it is that it was made by the student council.

[Duke87 1,070]

I dunno. I'd say the presence of a working SNES makes it pretty cool. That's retro stuff right there.

For comparison's sake, here's my college situation:

You can get one of five various meal plans:

-18 meals a week

-15 meals a week (the one I'm on, which is actually the cheapest)

-15 meals a week plus some misc dollars (not sure exactly how many)

-12 meals a week plus more misc dollars

-9 meals a week plus a lot of misc dollars

If you live in the dorms (like I do), you are required to have a meal plan. If you commute, it's optional. If you have a meal plan, you just swipe with your student ID and whatever you do is deducted from the account. Otherwise, you can pay with cash.

There are four cafeteria's on campus:

-Locke's Loft. Works as an all you can eat buffet, meal swipes only. Seves breakfast from 7:30-11, Lunch from 11:30-4:30, and dinner from 4:30-7:30 Monday through Friday; and brunch from 11:30-1:30, dinner from 5-7 Saturday and Sunday. Swiping is at the door, so you can only go in to eat.

-Dante's Den. Works with those misc dollars, but you can also meal swipe. Serves lunch 11:30-1:30 and dinner 5-7 Monday through Friday. You can just walk in at any time during the day, you only swipe/pay upon getting food. You have to walk through here to get to the Meal plan office and Student ID office. The dorm room selection process also takes place here at the end of the year.

-Plato's Cave. Work's the same way as Dante's Den. Serve's Lunch 12-3 and Dinner 4-12 (nidnight) Monday through Friday. You can just walk in at any of those times, you only swipe/pay upon getting food. Shows and events are often held in here.

-Leo Engineering Cafeteria. Works the same as Dante's and Plato's. Serves Breakfast 9-11 and Lunch 11:30-1:30 Monday Through Friday. It's open and free to walk into and sit down during all hours of the day, though (you just can't get food if it's not one of the above times). It's thus a common place for engineering students to meet and study or work on homework together.

You can, of course go to any of these places at your leisure, no questions asked. I've even on one occasion been in the cafeteria when I was supposed to be in class. Everyone has a different schedule, so it's impossible for the people at the cafeteria to know that, though. The campus is, like any college campus, completely open. You can wander off campus and go wherever at any time. In fact, the engineering building, computer lab, and one of the dorms are all off the main campus, so between classes there's quite a steady flow of students going in and out the main gate. And, it being in an urban setting, there are plenty of off campus places to go eat. There's a Burger King literally a few hundred feet from the edge of the campus (behind it, though, so you go out one of the back entrances). A few blocks south is a McDonalds which is open 24 hours. There's also a KFC, an IHOP, and another McDonalds within walking distance. Not to mention several pizza places, a few bars, and a several more "real" restaurants, too. Within that same walking distance is a Rite Aid, a Stop and Shop, a Staples, a Duane Reade, and a Target. Three video game stores (two local places and a GameStop), too. The north end of the 1 train is also right near the campus*. Several buses, too.

....of course, given that it's New York City, all this convenience isn't too surprising.

*242nd Street- Van Cortlandt Park (where you get on)

1 stop away) 238th Street

2) 231th Street

3) 225th Street

4) 215th Street

5) 207th Street

6) Dyckman (200th) Street

7) 191st Street

181st Street- George Washington Bridge/Yeshiva University

9) 168th Street (transfer to A and C trains here)

10) 157th Street

11) 145th Street

12) 137th Street- City College

13) 125th Street

14)<