An Intelligent Turn To Take

[zane900 1]

Urban planning, or city planning, is mostly viewed as the planning of development. There's more to urban planning! Urban planning is also about  people in development. When creating a city, planners always need to think about supplying the people's needs. These needs obviously change according to the different type of people in a city. Different cities are homes to different people who need different things.

That's why the social dimension of SimCity Societies is so important. SimCity Societies brings out a whole, new, authentic component of urban planning never before explored in SimCity. - An intelligent turn to take.

[sebbyb07 2]

Agreed Zane, the social aspects of sim city societies do sound promising, and could potentially be a great feature of the game, adding a whole new level of realism and interest.

[Godzillaman 21]

im thinking they already have three social sectors-R$, R$$, R$$$, but they are doing something more than that, wich makes it unique.

[vgcpapa 5]

What your saying is something that a lot of people would expect. And I believe that incorporating more social aspects into simcity is a logical step. However adding a feature like this into a game should not be at the expense of existing dimensions of urban planning. Sure it would be nice to know that some sims in my city have a defined culture, but if I could no longer lay rail or public transport (which I feel will be the case), I will be very dissapointed. And so IF I buy this game, everytime city that I build, out of resentmnet I will rule with an ironfist and my sims will regret the fact that their social problems have gotten in the way of my urban planning.

Sir, if you wish to have a just notion of the magnitude of this city, you must not be satisfied with seeing its great streets and squares, but must survey the innumerable little lanes and courts. It is not in the showy evolutions of buildings, but in the multiplicity of human habitations which are crowded together, that the wonderful immensity of London consists." — I have often amused myself with thinking how different a place London is to different people. They, whose narrow minds are contracted to the consideration of some one particular pursuit, view it only through that medium. A politician thinks of it merely as the seat of government in its different departments; a grazier, as a vast market for cattle; a mercantile man, as a place where a prodigious deal of business is done upon 'Change; a dramatick enthusiast, as the grand scene of theatrical entertainments; a man of pleasure, as an assemblage of taverns, and the great emporium for ladies of easy virtue. But the intellectual man is struck with it, as comprehending the whole of human life in all its variety, the contemplation of which is inexhaustible.quote>

James Boswell's Life of Johnson (1791)

[zane900 1]

Lovely quote, vgcpapa!

Good input - never thought about that. Yes, the 'wealths' in SimCity4 do have a bit to do with the social demension of urban planning.

[DOXXP29 5]

I think Vgcpapa put it very well and summed up my thoughts about the next version. I'd like to see some social dimensions ADDED to the existing game in a logical manner. It would make the game more interesting for me as long as it didn't get too ridiculous or overwhelming. However, adding the social element at the expense of removing or minimizing other existing game elements is something I definitely do NOT want! I'm much more interested in the city planning, infrastructure, growth, etc. than I am in extraneous social issues. Then there's always a bit of concern that if politics and social dimensions are introduced, there's always the possibility that the citizens might revolt and vote me out as mayor!

[Garek Maxwell 1]

It always confused me how introducing social aspects to Sim City wasn't realistic for some people... I think you explained it quite well, and Vgcpapa expanded upon it nicely too.

I do think they'll probably play around with how they've got their system set up though, and that the final product won't likely be how we think it will be. (Likely better than it is now due to true input over "Give us SC5!")

It would be nice if changing the social aspects of the city forcibly caused the people to be unhappy and potentially protest. I think though that all social aspects should be slow to change just like they are in real life. Only dramatic things should cause dramatic changes, which should be few and not often...but that could possibly be a unique addition to what they already have (random events such as shifts in social thought for example).

[Pixelrage 34]

It should be implemented as an entirely separate series, then. Personally I don't care for a game that focuses on sociology, and combining it with what Sim City is about is too much to handle, so instead they're going to dumb down Sim City gameplay to include it. That's where I lose interest. I would feel the same way even if it were done by the old Maxis team, with graphics better than SC4.

[Spinmaster 75]

Originally posted by: DOXXP29 I think Vgcpapa put it very well and summed up my thoughts about the next version. I'd like to see some social dimensions ADDED to the existing game in a logical manner. It would make the game more interesting for me as long as it didn't get too ridiculous or overwhelming. However, adding the social element at the expense of removing or minimizing other existing game elements is something I definitely do NOT want! I'm much more interested in the city planning, infrastructure, growth, etc. than I am in extraneous social issues. Then there's always a bit of concern that if politics and social dimensions are introduced, there's always the possibility that the citizens might revolt and vote me out as mayor!quote>

My short reply to that: ditto.

Add culture & societal factors to the game? Great - that IS something that has been missing since the beginning. I plan and build my cities, and the people take on a culture that is either desirable or not depending on what I wanted. I can see this being a very interesting component that has indeed been lacking since the original SimCity.

But the key is "I plan and build my cities." Not plan and build the societies. Actually, the sims build most of the city, the RCI parts, which is currently the only true reward - do they help me build the kind of city I hoped for or not? But they don't currently, and never did, develop any true culture based on that city. I can definitely see having some cultural aspects added to supplement that. But I don't want the focus changed to that.

This is why I keep saying, I wish they'd extend SimCity rather than change its foundation. Give me the city management, including all the complex micromanagement (or as SC fans would say, "wonderful array of options"), which I've enjoyed the past 20 years. Add the cultural & societal affects, add some intelligence so the "too complex" features can be optionally handled by the game instead of the player; so new or casual players can use them but realistic-simulation fans don't have to. This would actually make things more realistic - the mayor does not wear all the hats in most cities, the "advisers" (council, commissioners, directors, etc...) in fact do most of the management, he/she just makes the big yes/no decisions and manages the city as one overall unit. Maybe I like planning exactly where every bus stop should go. Or maybe, I want someone else to figure that out for me and just ask "shall we do this?" and let me approve or veto it and put my own. Or maybe I say yes, but then destroy/move some of the stops I disagree with. The people can respond to my management of the city and my "people" - via a true society which develops in response to my actions (or inactions), and I get a city full of well-behaved citizens or just a bunch of criminal pinheads. And if I've done a truly horrible job and they do revolt and vote me out... ok, I can accept that as an added feature, right now bankruptcy is the only way to really lose.

But the key remains: let me focus, with all the existing options and more, on building and managing the city; let the sims themselves develop their society in response. Reward me with something more than a Mayor Rating, but an actual society that develops based on what I've done. That, I would enjoy tremendously, but not if I lose the tools I need to build the city.

[zane900 1]

Nicely put, Spinmaster.

[GMT 389]

that's a point of view I never combined with sc4, but more with games like the anno series... or settlers...

interesting approach, and I bet the result of this in a sim city would be a great improvement.

good thing you've pointed out zane