6underground

looks gorgeous Carmine, breathtaking! =D

love the grainy pictures Amerikaner! Wonderfully captured. Soviets!

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I think that it's not a matter of Simtropolis being a "gay" or "bisexual" magnet, but that Simtropolis, is quite possibly the most tolerant forum I've ever been part of. TRUST ME, every forum has it's fair share of gay/bi/lesbian members, it's just that some forums are more restrictive and unwelcoming than others. I know first hand a woman gamer, who actively pretends to be a guy on the forums she visits (not because she's a lesbian) but to ensure she's not harassed by male gamers, simply for having ovaries and a set of breasts. @ Stormont, you are so kind. I think if every SC4 fansite ran some form of survey I think you will find that the custom content enjoyed by thousands of people have been the result of the creativity of a very large proportion of gay/bi/lesbians. I realise I can't prove this, but I have a strong gut feeling that most of our well known BAT/MAP contributors are gay/bi/lesbian.

On interpretations, you guys are right. Interpretations are like....elbows, everybody's got at least one. That's the problem with people, you can't trust them to take a message properly. I don't see it as a problem with the text so much as a problem with the people who read it. Case in point: The President of the USA wanting to argue over the meaning of the word 'is'. Remember that? In that kind of light, who would want anyone else's opinion on what the Bible means?quote> Now, Now Manticore. Trust is not an issue, my point really stands that if you were raised in a homophobic region and home life, you are going to read passages in the bible that relate to homosexuality as NEGATIVE. If you are raised in a non-homophobic region and home life you are going to read passages in the bible that relate to homosexuality as POSITIVE. You cannot take a "message properly" is the context of said passage is ambiguous, believing otherwise is a fallacy.

Now here is the thing that I don't understand. Back when I was a kid in church, one of the songs we would sing had the refrain "They will know we are Christians by our love". Somehow, these days, people who claim they are the only "true Christians" seem to be spouting a lot of hatred. How did things change from being about love to being about hate?quote> i think the old saying is true, the minority ruins it for the majority. I'm staunchly atheist and a Humanist, but I do have Christian friends that I love very much. They key thing is that not one of my Christian friends has ever told me that I'm a sinner or I'm going to hell for simply doing what I feel is right and with whom I care for. The thing I've come to realise is that Christians are not intrinsically linked into hating gay people like mindless drones heading one sole interpretation of the bible, rather many Chrisitans following many interpretations of it. I am sure that, if there were a God and there was a Jesus, he would not be so sadistic as to condemn homosexuality all the while allowing nature (and I mean MANY MANY species) to engage in homosexual behaviour, sometimes long term. The evidence of which is all around.

Manticore, the problem with your opinion is that the Bible's passages are all to often down to interpretation: Examples: Old Testament: "I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; dear and delightful you were to me; your love for me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women." PRO-GAY A pro-gay position might be that this is a clear indication that King David had a gay relationship, and to pretend otherwise is naive. ANTI-GAY An anti-gay opinion might be that the friendship between the two men was exactly that - a very close and loyal allegiance. "They called to Lot and asked him where the men were who had entered his house that night. 'Bring them out,' they shouted, 'so that we might have intercourse with them.'" ANTI-GAY An anti-gay argument might say this story demonstrates the immorality of homosexuality, as has been accepted for generations, hence the term sodomy. Elsewhere in Genesis, God says of the men: "Their sin is very grave." It's an example of behaviour degenerating. PRO-GAY Of course the men's behaviour was wicked, but it was wicked because it's a tale of sexual assault and rape. When Jesus mentions Sodom, hundreds of years later, it appears to be in a context of a discussion of hospitality, rather than one of sexual morality "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination." ANTI-GAY An anti-gay position would be that this line is unambiguous. It is also repeated elsewhere in the book. The speaker of the words is God, so this is an explicit indication that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes. It was one of the sins that justified God in giving the land of Canaan to the Israelites PRO-GAY A pro-gay argument might say that other verses in the same book forbid a wide range of sexual activities, including having sex with a woman who is having her period. This is an indication that the passage embodies specific cultural values rather than God's law. "[A] man shall leave his father and mother, and be made one with his wife; and the two shall become one flesh." ANTI-GAY This indicates Jesus saw heterosexual relations as the proper way of behaving. PRO-GAY Jesus is actually talking about the sanctity of heterosexual marriage "That is something which not everyone can accept, but only those for whom God has appointed it. For while some are incapable of marriage because they were born so, or made so by men, there are others who have themselves renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven. Let those accept it who can." PRO-GAY This shows that Jesus is more concerned with people looking after their own relationship with God, than with enforcement of rules. The reference to being "born so" indicates that heterosexual marriage is fine for those who are heterosexual, but it's OK to be different. Again and again Jesus reaches out to those on the margins of society, like prostitutes and tax collectors, to include them. ANTI

Poor guy... *hug*

I find that poetry and songwriting, even story writing, help so much. After you get all those thoughts ripped out of your hair onto a sheet of paper, you feel so relaxed. You can sleep, you can think properly and you don't get that sickening feeling when you realize you're still alive.quote> I agree, writing random bits of poetry or just writing my feelings just helps me "deal". I cannot articulate myself as well vocally for some reason (perhaps that a guy thing?) but give me a pen and a piece of paper and I can get it all out of me, like flushing away a malignant virus, or aiding your own comprehension of a certain situation. Even feeling lost, or in a "routine" it wont last forever. Hang in there, make some changes. It'll pan out.

I think they're planning something for the lads in Cardiff, Boggy. I shall be there if it occurs!

Now I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that, deep down, you're just as gay as you always were. What happened was that you wished you weren't gay so much that through sheer willpower you convinced yourself it was true. It's called "repression", and it's considered to be the most basic of defence mechanisms. The human mind is a very powerful thing like that. Point being, you're living a lie- and while you may be capable of doing that and willing to do that, many others are not. So you cannot fault others for not following the same path as you.quote> I am forced to agree on the conclusion expressed here. In a totally non-offensive kind of way.

To say your proud to be gay implies that if your not proud you can be not-gay. Implying a choice. It ain't true. As Ive said before Im not "proud" of my hair colour or fingernails so why be proud of something you can't help? Why not just make the most of it?quote> Same for me to, matey. I'm not into the whole "scene" to be honest. I just don't feel that I have to prove that i'm "proud" to be bi. No point in it really. Just "is".

You Brits probably all do. But there are people here from all over the world. Things which are big in your culture may very well be completely unheard of elsewhere. So don't assume.quote> Or perhaps, it's a sign that your nations inhabitants need to learn more about the outside world. Not to sound offensive, but most of Europe is well aware of the six nations championship AND the superbowl. Perhaps it's just an indication that the environment you are raised in isn't very internationally diverse.

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Oggy Oggy Oggy! I was screaming at the TV. I am soo, soo, sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Happy, incredibly chuffed. Cardiff/Caerdydd is absolutely ecstatic tonight!

homosexuality is not something that goes away IMHO.quote> Agreed, IMHO.

Placebo Panacea Realising that I was used only to quench your thirst,to aid your denial and keep it nursed. The things you said were cold and extreme, as though I infringed on a long-standing dream, of children and marriage, that was sold to you, I wasn't trying to take that away, or mean to pursue. Years from now, when you wonder why, why the dream of 2.4 children has gone awry, That trying to kill parts of yourself was a bad idea, The tragedy is, you never really needed a panacea. I wasn't asking for the Earth, matters now little, for all it's worth. By then though, it will be far too late, because you forced yourself to be "straight". I know in my heart that I had been nothing but mature, because I never needed any "cure". -"In magnis et voluisse sat est"- As you can tell by now, I've begun to use latin motto's or phrases as a sort of signature message, or underlying lesson learned/theme. I'm not sure if others approve, but it's something I've begun to do. It sort of increases serendipitous learning, because undoubtedly most will "google" the lesson to be learned.

@ Manticore, that was a really great post. I can't really relate, because I've always been an agnostic and have since become a Humanist. However, it does allow me to see my recent "flame" in a different light, somewhat. Although, no-one deserves the crap I've been though recently.

What! You do not look Welsh I look Welsh (I think?!), you just look...well...kinda American actually And your poetry is great I echo the words of Brad. Anndd...since I'm being left out...*hugs you too*quote> LOL, I so dooooo, actually I've been said to look "American" too (when I was in the states) and Irish. =D aww, thanks about the poetry. Just a way to release my feelings. They seem to be getting more bitter though. Which is fine by me. **MASSIVE HUG** Right back at you! =D Diolch am chi'n amwyn, Boggy.

Awww thanks, it's just weird and unfamiliar to me that someone could just switch personalities like that. Obviously a sign of a weak character really and not deserving of my effort, time, compassion, trust or laughs. He'll learn in time, though. *Hug* Nah, hugs are usually always good. Since everyone was discussing clothes earlier, I like to wear stuff that invokes laughs in others, makes me happy to see them happy. Oh and yes, I realise I "look" Welsh, i'm told that on a near-daily basis.

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Thanks for all the support guys, really appreciated.

I hate being led on and treated amazingly, then ignored after being intimate by someone who can't accept who and what he is. I wish I had known before, that he was so... self-hating. I feel used and frankly quite sick. I hate how he's made me feel.

Me, myself and I

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