Lambert14

Turkey will not be allowed to join the EU, it would drastically alter the power balance, and their weaker economy would seriously hurt the EU's. Not to mention the disagreements they have with current EU nations that they wont budge on, like Greece. Also, large amounts of labour from eastern europe is already flooding the western markets and causing problems in the socialist states. There are tons of problems with Turkey joining the EU, and I seriously doubt it will happen in our life time unless there are drastic changes within the EU itself.

Also with Turkey's entry into the EU all its citizens would be granted free movement in all of europe, flooding the richer nations labour markets. And the country itself would have a massive voting amount based on its population in comparison with the other leading EU States. Not to mention turkeys dismal economy and its terrible human rights record. I doubt turkey will ever be allowed into the EU, for good reasons...

Here is a condensed version of the canadian government's report: About the report: The report that the Canadian Conservative Party, under the leadership of Stephen Harper, apparently hoped would never see the light of day is titled "Children's Development of Social Competence Across Family Types." It is dated 2006-JUL. 2 It was only released after a request using the Access to Information Act by the lead author. The report notes that: "Canada has recently debated a profound redefinition of 'marriage' by extending its parameters through the legalization of civil marriage between same-sex adults" It was issued approximately twelve months after marriage was extended to same-sex couples across Canada. The report was prepared by a team led by Paul D. Hastings who holds a Ph.D. in Applied Developmental Psychology. The group included Johanna Vyncke, Caroline Sullivan, Kelly E. McShane, Michael Benibgui. and William Utendale. It was supplied to the group that commissioned the report: the Family, Children and Youth Section of the Canadian Department of Justice. The report is a 74 page meta study that summarized the results of over 100 individual studies into various family types and parenting competencies. A point of confusion: Quality of parenting: The report states: "Research has consistently shown little difference in children's social competence, parental socialization, and family functioning between families of heterosexual parents and families of gay or lesbian parents. The few differences that do emerge consistently suggest that: 1. Gay and lesbian couples tend to have a more egalitarian and satisfying balance of child-care tasks than heterosexual couples. 2. Gay and lesbian parents may be marginally more effective socialization agents than heterosexual parents, and 3. Children with gay or lesbian parents may be more concerned with or even experience more discrimination due to their parents' sexual orientation, although this does not appear to interfere with their social competence. From the perspective of risk and protective factors, the marginally, more effective socialization practices of gay and lesbian parents might act to protect their children from the adverse effects that could otherwise result from concern about or experience of teasing, bullying and discrimination because of the sexual orientation of their parent(s). Additionally, the marginally more positive home environment that likely results from lesbian and gay parents' greater support of each other's childcare activities might provide a marginally more supportive context for children's development of feelings of security and self-worth." In one study, "mothers reported that 18% of children had experienced some form of homophobic discrimination from peers or teachers, and adverse social events that would be a source of stress unique to children raised in gay and lesbian families." Such bigotry is hardly unique to children with same-sex parents. It is also experienced by children who are black, of mixed-race, whose parents follow a minority religion, who are recent immigrants, with a different mother tongue, who are developmentally challenged, who are visibly disabled, or a multitude of other differences. The encouraging fact is that the vast majority of same-sex parents reported no homophobic prejudice from outside of the family. Financial challenges: The report discusses financial aspects experienced by same-sex parents: "Relative economic hardship is common for gay and lesbian parents, as well. ... Gay men earn 11% to 27% less than heterosexual men with the same education, experience, and occupation, who live in the same region; lesbians also earn less than heterosexual women, although the difference is smaller. Lesbian mothers are more likely to experience job loss than heterosexual mothers, and lesbian mothers tend to be less affluent than heterosexual mothers." "It is curious, therefore, that overall gay and lesbian parents are equally good, or marginally better, socialization agents than heterosexual parents. Their relatively greater financial stresses do not appear to undermine the quality of their parenting. Perhaps anticipating that their children may be at risk of social disadvantage due to discrimination, gay and lesbian parents may put extra effort into meeting the needs of their children and providing them with strong social and emotional resources. Thus, the expected deleterious effects of economic stress on the quality of parental socialization may be ameliorated to some extent by the added childcare motivation present in many homes with gay or lesbian parents." (Citations deleted for clarity) Compensating factor: Quality of the parents' relationship: It seems likely that the high quality of parental socialization within lesbian and gay two-parent families acts to protect children from the adverse effects of this addition stress and discrimination. In turn, gay and lesbian parents are protected by the quality of their relationships with their partners. On the whole, lesbian and gay couples in two-parent families report sharing the tasks of child-rearing more equally than many heterosexual couples, and also report having more satisfying couple relationships." Recommendations: "Parents need to not be alone in the job of raising their children. Supportive and engaged partners, and accessible and supportive social networks, help parents to provide their children with the socialization experiences that foster the development of good social competence. The experience of stresses related to economic hardship and, in the case of lesbian and gay parents, discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, undermine the quality of parental socialization when good social support is lacking. As a society, we should endeavour to eradicate poverty and discrimination because of their adverse effect on children and families. In addition, we should support the social factors that protect families against the adverse effects of these risk factors. All two-parent and one-parent families should be accepted and supported, and the positive social support networks of lone-parent and two-parent families should be fostered and encouraged." Conclusion: "The strongest conclusion that can be drawn from the empirical literature is that the vast majority of studies show that children living with two mothers and children living with a mother and father have the same levels of social competence. A few studies suggest that children with two lesbian mothers may have marginally better social competence than children in traditional nuclear families, even fewer studies show the opposite, and most studies fail to find any differences. The very limited body of research on children with two gay fathers supports this same conclusion."

Here is one of the professional studies done by the Canadian Government : http://www.samesexmarriage.ca/docs/Justice_Child_Development.pdf Our government hasnt touched the issue yet or any other reliable and unbiased group. A child needs a loving and caring family, how is a hetero or homo parenting different in that regard? Churches force there views when they push them into law... I dont know about mainstream churches, but evangelical churches do and they are mainly mainstream in the south here. Many gay hate crimes, when asking the perpetrators, they use religion as justification for there actions. If you go through the bible, there are many restrictions on when a hetero couple can have sex, when they cant, restrictions against divorce, rules regarding families and other such things disregarded nowadays by christians. Homosexuals are denied there pursuit of happiness and are made to feel as second class citizens. No laws protect my job, my home, me and my husbands marital rights, my children if they are not genetically related, adoption rights, and many other rights heteros take for granted. I never said homosexuals wouldnt divorce... but there would be more families in number staying together and more families to take cae of kids, even if the percentage staed where it is now. Any other questions?

Legislation from the bench can be a good thing. Rulings help move this county forward in a progressive manner when the people refuse to vote to do it. Allowing abortion, evolution ot be taught in schools, desegregation, bi-racial marriages, these were all given to us by the courts whose job it is to uphold the constitution and protect everyone's rights. Marriage is a civil institution, not religious. As many have stated before, marriage is granted by the government, not churches or anyone else. These rights should be available to same sex marriages. There will always be a difference, its not about saying we are all identical, its saying under the law we all deserve the same rights and abilities. Also, many heterosexual couples nowadays need a third party to step in to help with pregnancies, my mother and three of my aunts all had to have invitro. Also, the idea that it is bad for children is bull, more then 50% of marriages nowadays are divorced, those kids only have one parent and you make do with what you got. Having two parents that love you is more important then what sex they are. Also, if you look at the professional studies, there is no significant difference between a same sex parent family and an opposite sex parent family. These are lies forced upon us by the churches and focus on the family who live to mislead people and make them fear. Churches openly say that being gay is a sin and you are going to hell. Churches post signs saying I am going to burn. Churches allow hate crimes by telling there congregations that we are sinners and christians must punish the sinners. Churches cant even read there own bible and see that being gay is not a sin, what is referred to is idolatry and rampant debauchery and not respecting your own body. There are more sins committed by heterosexual couples in a marriage, then by gay or lesbian couples. We dont want or seek approval, we dont care if you accept it or not, we want our civil rights granted to us and to be treated equally under the law.

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy The church of Scientology, for instance, is in no way "non-profit". quote> Agreed, hence the UK and Irish governments do not class them as a religion but class them as a cult and ban them from using tax exempt status bar for VAT. Something they detest greatly and makes me laugh rather a lot.quote> Not to mention Germany where scientology is actively fought against as a cult oganization

Commercials, flyers, call centers, advertisements, yard signs, Internet sights, viral videos and numerous other items that they did not represent the costs on there documents. Under the IRS code for tax exempt institutions, a tax exempt group cannot do a substantial amount of lobbying or political pushing for or against anything. The LDS Church donated large amounts of items and money to the no on prop 8 campaign. They have claimed only 20000 dollars worth of actual monetary donations, but make no mention of all the non monetary donations given. The IRS needs to define substantial, and then needs to request all the monetary documents from the LDS to determine how much money they actually donated to the campaign. Many of the estimates put them at 70% o the total funding. If the IRS does there job, there is no way this wouldnt classify as substanital andd the LDS church loses its tax exempt status as punishment

um, I think the whole tax exempt thing is missing the point. The LDS chucrch broke the law by donating large amounts of nonmonetary lobbying tools to get legislation passed. They cant do that...

interesting news story I found. Apparently the Mormon church bit off more then it can chew and possibly broke the law... http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/video-mormon-fi.html

interesting concept...

Risk Warren doesnt represent all christians, I never said that. Rick warren is an evangelical who has wriiten many popular books that many evangelical churches follow. His influence is felt throughout the world and his hatred of gays and his destructive ideas as well.

Awhile ago some people asked for proof of my claims of the cruelty of evangelical christians. Here is a leader of many churches in the US and many right wings admire him, and this is what he does in the name of god. Rick Warren is a cruel person who is leading people to death and supports attacks on gays. Condom Burnings and Anti-Gay Witch Hunts: How Rick Warren Is Undermining AIDs Prevention in Africa By Max Blumenthal, The Daily Beast. Posted January 8, 2009. GA_googleFillSlot("alt_story_btf_right_300x250"); // ord = window.ord || Math.floor(Math.random()*1E16); document.write('<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="<a href='http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/stln.alternet.org/;sz=300x250;ord=''>http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/stln.alternet.org/;sz=300x250;ord='</a> + ord + '?"><\/script>'); // Once hailed by Time magazine as "America's Pastor," California megachurch leader and best-selling author of The Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren now finds himself on the defensive. President-elect Barack Obama's selection of Warren to deliver the inaugural prayer has generated intense scrutiny of the pastor's beliefs on social issues, from his vocal support for Proposition 8, a ballot initiative banning same-sex marriage in California, to his comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia, incest and bestiality. Many of Obama's supporters have demanded that he withdraw the invitation. Warren's defense against charges of intolerance ultimately depends upon his ace card: his heavily publicized crusade against AIDS in Africa. Obama senior adviser David Axelrod cited Warren's work in Africa as one of "the things on which [Obama and Warren] agree" on the Dec. 28 episode of Meet the Press. Warren may be opposed to gay rights and abortion, the thinking goes, but he tells evangelicals it is their God-given duty to battle one of the greatest pandemics in history. What could be wrong with that? But since the Warren inauguration controversy erupted, the nature of his work against AIDS in Africa has gone unexamined. Warren has not been particularly forthcoming to those who have attempted to look into it. His Web site contains scant information about the results of his program. However, an investigation into Warren's involvement in Africa reveals a web of alliances with right-wing clergymen who have sidelined science-based approaches to combating AIDS in favor of abstinence-only education. More disturbingly, Warren's allies have rolled back key elements of one of the continent's most successful initiative, the so-called ABC program in Uganda. Stephen Lewis, the United Nations special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, told the New York Times their activism is "resulting in great damage and undoubtedly will cause significant numbers of infections which should never have occurred." Warren's man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempa enjoys close ties to his country's first lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the Bush White House. In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa's stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them. Dr. Helen Epstein, a public health consultant who wrote the book, The Invisible Cure: Why We're Losing the Fight Against AIDS in Africa, met Ssempa in 2005. Epstein told me the preacher seemed gripped by paranoia, warning her of a secret witches coven that met under Lake Victoria. "Ssempa also spoke to me for a very long time about his fear of homosexual men and women," Epstein said. "He seemed very personally terrified by their presence." When Warren unveiled his global AIDS initiative at a 2005 conference at his Saddleback Church, he cast Ssempa as his indispensable sidekick, assigning him to lead a breakout session on abstinence-only education as well as a seminar on AIDS prevention. Later, Ssempa delivered a keynote address, a speech so stirring it "had the audience on the edge of its seats," according to Warren's public relations agency. A year later, Ssempa returned to Saddleback Church to lead another seminar on AIDS. By this time, his bond with the Warrens had grown almost familial. "You are my brother, Martin, and I love you," Rick Warren's wife, Kay, said to Ssempa from the stage. Her voice trembled with emotion as she spoke, and tears ran down her cheeks. Joining Ssempa at Warren's church were two key Bush administration officials who controlled the purse strings of the president's newly minted $15 billion anti-AIDS initiative in Africa, PEPFAR. Museveni also appeared through a videotaped address to tout the success of her country's numerous church-based abstinence programs. These Bush officials -- Randall Tobias, the Department of State's Global AIDS coordinator, and Claude Allen, the White House's chief domestic policy adviser -- are closely linked to the Christian Right. Tobias, the so-called global AIDS czar, declared in 2004 that condoms "really have not been very effective," and crusaded against prostitution, until he resigned in 2007 when he was exposed as a regular client of the D.C. Madam's escort service. Allen, once an aide to the late Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., resigned in 2006 after he was arrested for felony thefts from retail stores. During the early 1990s, when many African leaders denied the AIDS epidemic's existence, Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni spoke openly about the importance of safe sex. With the help of local and international nongovernmental organizations, he implemented an ambitious program emphasizing abstinence, monogamous relationships and using condoms as the best ways to prevent the spread of AIDS. He called the program "ABC." By 2003, Uganda's AIDS rate plummeted 10 percent. The government's free distribution of the "C" in ABC -- condoms -- proved central to the program's success, according to Avert, an international AIDS charity. On New Year's Eve 1999, Janet Museveni, who had become born-again, convened a massive stadium revival in Kampala to dedicate her country to the "lordship" of Jesus Christ. As midnight approached, the first lady summoned a local pastor to the stage to anoint the nation. "We renounce idolatry, witchcraft and Satanism in our land!" he proclaimed. Two years later, Janet Museveni flew to Washington at the height of a heated congressional debate over PEPFAR. She carried in her hand a prepared message to distribute to Republicans. Abstinence was the golden bullet in her country's fight against AIDS, she assured conservative lawmakers, denying the empirically proven success of her husband's condom-distribution program. Like magic, the Republican-dominated Congress authorized over $200 million for Uganda, but only for the exclusive promotion of abstinence education. Ssempa soon became the "special representative of the first lady's Task Force on AIDS in Uganda," receiving $40,000 from the PEPFAR pot. Emboldened by U.S. support, Ssempa took his anti-condom crusade to Makerere University in Kampala, where senior residents of a men's dormitory promoted safe sex by greeting incoming freshmen with a giant effigy wearing a condom. According to Epstein, one day after she visited the school, Ssempa stormed onto campus, tore the condom from the effigy, grabbed a box of free condoms and set them ablaze. "I burn these condoms in the name of Jesus!" Ssempa shouted as he prayed over the burning box. "It was a very controversial time," Epstein told me. "After the Bush administration authorized PEPFAR, a number of the local evangelical preachers began to get excited about this and get involved in AIDS very rapidly. To try to prove his credentials, Ssempa became increasingly active and vociferous in his antipathy towards condoms." By 2005, billboards promoting condom use disappeared from the streets of Kampala, replaced by billboards promoting virginity. "Until recently, all HIV-related billboards were about condoms. Those of us calling for abstinence and faithfulness need billboards, too," Ssempa told the BBC at the time. A 2005 report by Human Rights Watch documented educational material in Uganda's secondary schools falsely claiming condoms had microscopic pores that could be penetrated by the AIDS virus and noted the sudden nationwide shortage of condoms due to new restrictions imposed on condom imports. AIDS activists arrived at the 16th International AIDS Conference in Toronto in 2006 with disturbing news from Uganda. Due, at least in part, to the chronic condom shortage, HIV infections were on the rise again. The disease rate had spiked to 6.5 percent among rural men and 8.8 percent among women -- a rise of nearly two points in the case of women. "The ‘C' part [of ABC] is now mainly silent," said Ugandan AIDS activist Beatrice Ware. As a result, she said, "the success story is unraveling." Troubled by what he was witnessing in Africa, the late Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., led the new Democratic-controlled Congress to reform PEPFAR during a reauthorization process in February 2008. Lantos insisted that Congress lift the abstinence-only earmark imposed by Republicans in 2002 and begin to fund family-planning elements like free condom distribution. His maneuver infuriated Warren, who immediately boarded a plane for Washington to join Christian Right leaders, including born-again former Watergate felon Chuck Colson, for an emergency press conference on the Capitol lawn. In his speech, Warren claimed that Lantos' bill would spawn an increase in the sex trafficking of young women. The bill died and PEPFAR was reauthorized in its flawed form. (Days later, Lantos died of cancer after serving for 27 years in Congress.) With safe sex advocates on the run, Warren and Ssempa trained their sights on another social evil. In August 2007, Ssempa led hundreds of his followers through the streets of Kampala to demand that the government mete out harsh punishments against gays. "Arrest all homos," read placards. And: "A man cannot marry a man." Ssempa continued his crusade online, publishing the names of Ugandan gay rights activists on a Web site he created, along with photos and home addresses. "Homosexual promoters," he called them, suggesting they intended to seduce Uganda's children into their lifestyle. Soon afterward, two of President Museveni's top officials demanded the arrest of the gay activists named by Ssempa. Terrified, the activists immediately into hiding. Warren, in his effort to dispel criticism, has denied harboring homophobic sentiments. "I could give you a hundred gay friends," he told MSNBC's Ann Curry on Dec. 18. "I have always treated them with respect. When they come and want to talk to me, I talk to them." But when Uganda's Anglican bishops threatened to bolt from the Church of England because of its tolerant stance towards homosexuals, Warren parachuted into Kampala to confer international legitimacy on their protest. "The Church of England is wrong, and I support the Church of Uganda on the boycott," Warren proclaimed in March 2008. Declaring homosexuality an unnatural way of life, Warren flatly stated, "We shall not tolerate this aspect [homosexuality in the church] at all." Days later, Warren emerged so enthusiastic after a meeting with first lady Museveni, he announced a plan to make Uganda a "Purpose Driven Nation." "The future of Christianity is not Europe or North America, but Africa, Asia and Latin America," he told a cheering throng at Makerere University. Then, Ugandan Archbishop Henry Orombi rose and predicted, "Someday, we will have a purpose-driven continent!"

but thats the point... We have a seperation of church and state in this country. These people are pushing there religious interpretation on the rest of the country. Other groups dont have religion backing them or use religious masses to go and vote. That is how a theocracy forms and theocracys are one persons views on religion oppresing everyone elses. And I dont believe that God condemns as much stuff as the church does... If you look at the bible, alot of these condemnations are ridiculous, the biblical evidence is scarce and alot of the condemning that God did explicitly put into law is ignored by most churches. All christians need to follow are the two laws jesus gave us... Love God above all others and treat others as you want to be treated. Christians cant seem to do this, they like to create a myraid amount of laws and rules and follow those, but ignore when Jesus hands them a simplified system that encourages free thought and individual views. I believe that God gave us free will and inteligence and to not use those things and blindly follow someone is the worst slap in the face you could do. All of this is in my opinion of fcourse

I know that I have problems with many organized churches, and there are a few out there who would accept anyone as they are. My main issue with the organized churches is there pushing of religious interpretation into law, mainly against homosexuality, begin that I am gay. It is a huge problem in our community, and the only way I kept my faith was drastically reinterpretting it. I do not support churches that condemn, churches that preach that because I am gay I am inherently a sinner and am not an equal person. I grew up being force fed that I was evil for being me, but my friends were hypocrites, going to church on sunday, then having sex with there boyfriend sunday night. I tried to follow these rules and be a good christian and for 21 years of my life I hated myself because of these views I was forced into. Religion hurts so many people and so many guys and girls who are closeted either hide from reality by lying to themselves, or commit suicide. Because of this, many of these churches that say they preach love, but then condemn my friends and family, I cannot see them as beingg a kind institution.

in my whole life, I have found 2 churches that have accpeted people fully and not judged or condemned others or been hypocrites. Those were the MCC and a small church in London I went to. Take me to this area of good churches you live in (dont tell me really, just a hypothetical suggestion) and show me these places full of love and kindness because I have yet to see them.