Garek Maxwell

Does anyone have any good introductory textbook or even "more in depth but" coffee table books on urban planning? I'm specifically looking for a simple overview of things, nothing heavily steeped in government, laws, and things. I'm looking at over arching theories and applications. Everything from Rome, to medieval, to suburbia, to new urbanism or whatever other new ideas there might be out there. Am I pretty much looking at Urban Planning for Dummies? Or are there better books for someone who's not wanting to become a professional city planner? I'm hoping some folks at least took an intro course on the subject that may have had a good book in that course. I also wasn't sure if this belonged in the Architecture & Urban Planning subforum or not, since it's the exact opposite of that forum. I want better digital fake cities, not applying sim city to the real world. I already started one profession, I'd like to give it a few decades before going for another!

Thanks everyone! These are good starts for me. I appreciate the advice.

Okay, I know a lot of people are afraid of EA buying up the rights and all for it (and it's quite justified!)... But ... Well, I think that if they did, then it could be a sign that they are interested in developing another city builder. (It can also just be them eliminating the competition too, but lets hope for better!) If anyone has the money to really spend time making changes, fixing bugs, and possibly improving the game after spending a lot of money acquiring the license for it, it would be EA. ...whether or not they actually spend money on it is another story as well. Again, let's hope for the best situation for both the former employees and for whoever bought the license.

Actually, last I read they were looking for buyers. Who knows how that's going, but it isn't promising from the sounds of it. Expect the new EA release of Cities Societies XXL in 2012! (This isn't serious.)

Originally posted by: mr-tom Originally posted by: ValNarm I think it was mentioned before, but it doesn't cost THAT much to host, I don't quite understand why they had to destroy it completely other than being particularly greedy. quote> My guess is that running the online game cost more than it brought in or was likely to bring in any time soon.quote> This is correct. From memory based on old threads discussion slow loading, saving, lagg issues, and costs of servers, someone figured out that what was happening is that MC made it so that saved games save all city data to the servers. This is really really costly and takes up a lot of space. To give an example, there is Everquest, a popular MMO. In the early days, almost all game data was stored on servers and you basically purchased an interface that communicated with them. Loading was very slow and it wasn't exactly ideal for server cost since bandwidth usage was extreme. (Everyone has to load the same things over and over again from their servers after all.) Later, after a particular expansion, they changed it so the load was primarily placed on the user's computer. This cut costs on server usage and probably made the game more competitive in pricing compared to newer games. Ever since then, most MMOs use this model because it's the cheapest way to do it. MC went the other direction, and this was probably partly done to enable the avatars to walk around the cities of other people and to cut down on cheating. Had they managed to use a different method and, say, store the bare minimum data in the equivalent to a text file (similar to Spore), then they could have made it work more easily. However, I don't know how this would have impacted gameplay and multiplayer aspects...

I don't know, I think a lot of people would have been happy with a 3D Sim City 4. Nothing new, nothing special, just 3D graphics and the same kinds of modding tools that EA released. I know I would have been happy with it, and no company would have to work very hard to produce it... (This is ignoring all the copyright claims that would follow such an endeavor of course.)

Maybe it would work if it had a more demanding tone like, "If you do not meet our demands within the next 48 hours we will be forced to use the doomsday machine!" I am assuming that the people behind this letter have a giant red button that they can press while laughing maniacally as the world is taken over by legions of robots or something. That may be the only way to get anything out of MC right now though. ...Well, I assume death rays would work too in theory...In theory!

Looking back at past games I had from MC, a lot of them were rather mediocre. It's not like they were bad, but they weren't games I'd play for years to come. Still, Cities XL seems like it was of the same level (though one good expansion may have brought it up to shining quality). I think the big problem is that MC overshot their budget a lot in developing something very ambitious. Given past track records I wouldn't have banked on this project being a giant success anyway. Had it been a lower budget game, it may have done okay and squeaked by just fine. But since they went the MMO route that probably was what put them way over a profitable budget. :\ Also, while minor, I think it could have been advertised a little better. If I had never been interested in Cities XL from the beginning, then I may have never heard about it. I suspect that there wasn't as much marketing in the US as there was in Europe though, which would explain it. Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I just thought it was odd that when I look back I can't remember any time I saw any kind of advertising. (Or "advertising" with lots of previews from major game news websites.)

Originally posted by: Anarkhan *Some people are interested by the company."We hope to find a buyer for the studio, and that most of the workers will be kept".quote> I think we all know what this means...

There was someone...or someones who posted in the earlier days of Cities XL about why they needed such large servers and possibly why it took a long time to save. Things of that nature. From what I read, the reason why MC needed such powerful servers is because the entire city was stored on their database. I know this was probably done to cut down on cheating and to make avatar system work, but I honestly believe that was a terrible move to make. Instead of using the equivalent of a tiny text file to keep track of trades between cities and just gutting the avatar system in favor of a first person camera mode, they went with something that ...well, it required a lot of power to pull off. Yeah, it's nice walking around player cities and such, but that could have been alleviated by allowing players to put up their cities for download somehow in something equivalent to the Sims 2-3 neighborhoods. Heck, they could even turn that into a highly compressed file for easy sending that contains minimal data (no graphics, etc...) making it possible to store those things on their own servers. If this was done, then their server costs would never have been so high. Anyway, had it failed in spite of these things, then it would probably be really easy for players to do the same thing on their own. Just trying to point out the problems of doing it on your own with the way the game was currently designed. I should mention though that this isn't meant to bash MC at all, merely to point out that had they done it slightly differently the PO could have been cheaper for them to run and maintain...Possibly even making it a success financially due to it probably cutting down on server costs. I know it sounds negative, but it's not a positive situation for MC right now. I hope the best for them and their future plans.

Originally posted by: MadBrahmsWhat exactly HAVE they been doing the last two months? quote> Probably restructuring and replanning their development team while also attempting to work out plans for further investment without causing worry amongst their investors for closing down a significant part of their original work. It's a lot harder to get more money after telling your investors that your original plan didn't pan out but you have a way to fix it. I would certainly be worried myself. Anyway, this isn't a "MC is bankrupt!" post, rather it's just about business as usual. Any other game company would undergo the same process to recoup any losses or salvage what they have to give a better return for investors. ...Unless they didn't have any money left over, in which case they would have folded over a long time ago.

Originally posted by: bobrobertsnzSome people complain like young kids "it doesnt have spaceships or martians. And it should have pet stores and and and and"....quote> Weren't all of those things in Sim City 2000? Wait, no, it's best we don't start comparing Cities XL to a 17 year old game. In all fairness, I do hope MC and Cities 2011 do well and manage to turn things around for this small speedbump. That said, hopefully more info will come later for people to determine how worth it the next version will be.

Considering that was the last line and I did read the thread (posts included!), you should be complaining about how terribly world ending it is that I misread something. I will spare you the horrific tales of past misreadings on my part, for I do not wish to scar thee for an eternity. I shall attempt more careful readings of further posts for the sake of all mankind. Also, if MC was struggling with their old financial model on paying for their servers, I seriously doubt $30 a year will fix the situation. His point is still flawed, I just pointed out the wrong flaw initially.

$30 a month for more things that should be in a buy once expansion or in the game to begin with (trains)? How rich are you? The failure of planet offer is far too complex to be fixed by a few more gimmicks anyway. Edit: Upon further thought the planet offer could actually still survive and be used. However, MC would have to simplify things considerably and not host more than the equivalent of .txt files on their servers that hold on to trade information or other such things. It would essentially be a single player game then, which I doubt will satisfy anyone at this point. They'd pretty much have to turn the multiplayer aspect into a very small online game similar to cyber nations. http://www.cybernations.net/ If they do that though, they would most certainly have to do it free...Something I doubt will ever happen.

Originally posted by: Daze90 Or will we have to buy them?quote> Now there's an idea! Turn the Planet Offer into an online store that offers you things you can purchase like maps or modes of transportation! Monte Cristo could easily redesign and set up an new system similar to EA's sims 3 online store where you pay real money for shirt pixels!

Sounds almost like they may move the trading on to a new model where you could trade with other players using their servers but only a very tiny amount of data is stored or used between players. That should have been what was done in the first place to cut down on server space and demand. Much like saving cities online wasn't necessary. Only a small amount of information was needed to handle PO (minus the walking around with an avatar thing), and had they stuck with that model then I bet things like trading and city interactions would have gone more smoothly. Then again, they could just be upgrading the trading system so it's fair trades with the big bad corporation or maybe even multiple corporations. Either way, journals can be posted here and if you need chatting there's also here or the possibility to create an IRC thingy just for Cities XL players.

I just want the following: 1. Cities Unlimited Bring back the image and focused simplicity this game had before things changed and darkness swept over the forums and community.

Now I'm just left wondering if Cities XL 2011 is going to be the Cities Unlimited from ancient lore I heard so much about. I recall old tales of great promises and hope for a new age... Anyway, sure hope MC does well and succeeds with this new plan. As much as I never would have gone for the PO, I certainly wouldn't want MC to be hurt badly for such a mistake. ...Though I do think that their sudden change of plans was likely because they financially forecast running out of money for future development since subscriber numbers was probably low and not increasing. The seemingly hasty change was probably decided not long after December when subscribers didn't rise as expected and just looking at the numbers it could be determined in advanced that things weren't looking good. It was probably a better move to cut their loses now before it got really bad and then try to salvage what they can to garner more sales in the future.

McDonalds - Everywhere but the Center of the Earth You can recognize it's golden arches anywhere. Whether it's Zimbabwe, Lebanon, Sri Lanka or even Cyprus, they'll be there. Tail o' the Pup - Los Angeles, CA One of the greatest landmarks ever. The Big Duck - New York One of the most famous "duck" buildings ever. That's all I'll post, since I think it covers some of the greatest feats of architecture mankind has in the 20th century. Of course, there's plenty more where these came from!

There are problems with your graph you first used.... Namely, google searches for an exact phrase. So by not including spaces between certain words in the phrases the searches resulted in just the phrase "simcity 4" instead of also including "sim city 4". Here's a graph below including more potential phrases for the graph. As can be seen, "Sim City 4" is actually higher than "Simcity 4". "Simcity societies" and "Sim City Societies" is virtually the same, with the inclusion of spaces actually lowering it a little. Therefore, if we just use only one entry that has the highest search results then the following graph is probably more accurate. (Now that's weird, I could have sworn this didn't have Sim City 3000 in it...Oh well, time to edit things....) I added in "Sim City 3000" just out of curiousity... What's really sad is that Sim City 3000 actually outranks Sim City Societies multiple times. ...I can't help but giggle to myself on that one. Sorry. Now for the grand finale! Overall, City Life has actually done better for MC than Cities XL SO FAR and this is not an indicator of how it will do in the future. However, this doesn't exactly look too good here for Cities XL either. Hopefully they can pull off a trick or two and get some renewed interest and such in the game, otherwise it'll be going the way of Societies... This is just a random bit of fun with statistics anyway... Edit for the 40th time probably... It appears that "Sim City 2000" is even with "Simcity Societies". Here's a link to those interested in this. http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22sim+city+4%22%2C+%22cities+xl%22%2C+%22simcity+societies%22%2C+%22sim+city+3000%22%2C+%22sim+city+2000%22&ctab=0&geo=all&date=2009&sort=4 That's right, a game released in 1993 is actually competing with a "sequel" released in 2007!

Originally posted by: mrdazza_460By the look of your logo there USA_Pride "Po'd over PO just sayk NO" I don't see why you care so much, your obviously not going to buy the PO. You say it is poor Customer relations infact it is the other way round. They have listed to all your complaints and they are working toward fixing it. quote> Actually, I did the logo and I don't even own Cities XL. It was more for fun and that I could easily make a fun little phrase to go with it. I think I made it not too long after writing the phrase somewhere on this site about being PO'd over the PO. Doesn't mean I like what Monte Cristo is doing, just means I'm not really effected by it. Perhaps a bit of consumer emphathy? Or maybe I'm just stretching my design skills and testing things. Take it how you will, and feel free to copy it if you like. I like it when people use it because it makes me think I did a rather good job...maybe. Anyway, this is considerably off topic. Just thought I'd pop in to say that. Carry on!

Originally posted by: bobrobertsnz Soviet779, did you get "Looks like theyre desperately trying to recoup development costs or make a profit due to falling subscriber numbers and lower than expected sales." from another site or is it made up?quote> That would be neither, as it's a personal observation. Frankly from the sounds of it, it's the equivalent of finding Cities XL "On Sale" or in the bargain bins. At that point, stores are trying to get rid of their stock for newer games. This very well could signal that Cities XL has already reached the point where sales are falling. It sounds like the online equivalent of falling sales anyway, since most MMO's offer longer term options. ...Then again, maybe they think no one's looking at this game in terms of the long-term because of all the uncertainty surrounding it. Thus, they offer only short-term options that cost more. ...Not exactly a good move for consumers, but maybe they think it'll make them more money this way.

Originally posted by: AsherooSo, it's rather me, or you haven't read anything at all. quote> I admit I haven't kept a close eye on all they post, but from what I read they made it sound like it's required that mods get approved to even work. Then with patches making mods not working anymore (or the PO no longer working, I forgot which), then things get rather confusing. Admittedly, I don't trust much of what MC says anymore. I will first assume that what they say is is just PR and has no real substance behind it until they can prove otherwise with real actions and steps taken to show they are trustworthy. Their past actions haven't exactly helped them with building trust amongst many.

I don't think they'll ever truly open it up. I don't have quotes, but from the sounds of their past postings here it didn't sound like they were going in that direction. However, it may open a good degree when/if (probably more when) they release tools for it. Interestingly, they may try to control what gets in and what doesn't, but I bet with those tools released someone will try to hack the game so users can (if they stay offline) use whatever kind of custom content they want. No promises there obviously. You need a combination of user interest and skills in hacking a game, as well as MC compliance or hands-off "don't care" approach like EA had with The Sims series. Technically users were hacking the game with adding some content, but EA didn't really seem to care.

It may have been already mentioned, but I don't recall seeing it in all the posts. But one of the reasons why suburbia was helped along by the US government was because of the atomic bomb. With most cities so heavily concentrated, there were only a few targets an enemy would have and they could destroy most of the infrastructure and economy. With everything decentralized, then at least a good chunk of the population would survive a bombing of major cities. Of course, it's no longer the reason why the US government pushes it, I would think. With things so decentralized there are new weapons an enemy could use and still wreak havoc upon the population. Plus, it didn't exactly take long for Russia to make enough nukes to blow up the world, so spreading people out didn't do much more than provide psychological comfort. I will give suburbia one thing... It spawned an architectural style so highly prized, so amazingly beautiful, so incredible that no one can deny it's awesomeness. This style is Googie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googie_architecture I don't know why this isn't as celebrated as things like Neo-Classical architecture. It's far superior. I mean, imagine what the Greeks and Romans would have done had they access to nukes and neon! I bet it'd be just as awesome.