matthewcherry83

Date: 1/23/2006 12:37:46 AM Author: Jasoncw ^ I was about to say the same thing. The downside is that, of course the building would be a 2x6. Prop families could be used to help mix things up a bit too, but you'd need to make sure that all of the bottoms and all the tops line up and look nice with eachother. I would love mixed use stuff, but all of this is so out of the way that it's not the same feeling as having a real mixed use lot. We can only dream for Sim City 5... well the building could be an arbitrary size, really. I am sure there are some kind of limits though. But, say a 1x5 Res zone does not mean the whole MUD has to be 2x5. it could be 5x5. Hmmm.... I might be wrong here, but using this irregular zone work around might even allow for irregular sized MUDs... like this (given that the only 2x5 resdiential lot is the custom growable designed for the MUD) ===== CCC CCC RRRRR RRRRR ===== where the MUD building prop would look like this..... ====== MMM MMM MMMMM MMMMM ====== note that since the commercial building is entirely behind the RES zone here, it must have transit access from the back LOL thanks for inspiring another possible idea P.S. I already entertained the idea of prop families. you are right, it would be a great idea to vary street level building fronts

Date: 1/23/2006 12:01:51 AM Author: the_SIMtastik_One I don't know if this will help or not since I have never been to successful with the BAT and know zilch about modding, but I think I have a work around for you. Rather than make a residential plopable, you could make a residential growable on an odd shaped lot. For example, I am aware of no growable that grows on a 1x5 lot size. You could (as far as I know) make any kind of building you want as an overhanging prop on that lot. Then just have a plopable commercial, industrial, civic, or whatever lot you want to look conjoined. I think this would allow you to get past the res plopable delapadation bug. Hope this helps. quote> Yes, putting the Res part on an odd shaped growable could work, and could be designed to be completely nothign visually. This could work for some, but severlely limits the lot sizes that can be used :-( But nonetheless, for larger scale R Based MUDs, this could be pheasible. Thank you for your input the_SIMtastik_One!

Date: 1/22/2006 10:51:20 PM Author: SimGoober Don't kill yourself on this.. it most likely will not work.  Many modders have tried since modding started to make a ploppable residential lot, it seems to not be possible.  Occasioanlly, one will appear to work (it doesn't abandon), but they don't actually function correctly, so it's for appearances only. Nice idea though, and sorry to squash it... Indeed, as I have found out this has been the case. However, IMHO, it is not quite an entirely squashed idea. The idea should work with other combinations minus residential (which is what everyone surely desires the most, unfortunately). Long and inconvenient workarounds, such as discussed above, might be possible. That option would only be viable for a player that reallly really really wants to take the time to have the illusion of a MUD. Nonetheless, I personally am at least interested in the prospect of hybrid commercial MUDs. Thus i shall continue to pursue that idea. Besides, it's about time i start to learn the insides and outs of SC4.

thanks JayStimson, I'll hop on those as soon as I can

Date: 1/22/2006 6:36:52 PM Author: Tracker Actually, you have just opened massive possibilities for SC4. Why? The commerce could be the first floor, and the offices could be on top! quote> Now, you are absolutely right, regarding this, according to my knowledge at least. The idea of MUDs (i think) should be able to be completely implemented with any other type of building or zone other than resdiential. Using the method i have proposed, (and the rest of the community hopefulyl is further developing ;-) ), I see no reason why a CS/CO MUD would not work properly. A CS/CO MUD with it's own transit building too, such as parking or bus, or subway. Hopefully at least community members will capitalize on this possibilty. I have spent some time over the past week educating myself about lots/bats/props and drowning in exemplars and co-horts, and yada yada yada. I refuse to create anything that is not up to current simtropolis quality, so it wll be some time before i can produce anything. I have yet to scour the forums, but if anyone knows of any specific tutorials i should be submerging myself in, feel free to lemme know

Date: 1/22/2006 3:09:37 PM Author: JayStimson ... I would also place the C and the R lots side by side instead of front and back. Makes the road/transit access easier. ... It indeed would be easier, but i proposed that particular example for a MUD with only 1 tile of road frontage. 2+ tiles or more of road frontage makes it easier, and would not require transit access in the rear of the MUD for the commercial part of the building. As for the idea of effectively neutralizing all other buildings and only growing the custom growables could work, but at the same time, unless lots of time and effort are taken to make all other residential zones in the city historical, the player runs the risk of these pre-existing zones growing over with custom growables.(terrible run-on sentence, sorry ;-) ) Now a question/proposal... is there a way to make plugin or mod that will iterate through all residential lots in the city and make them historical, and change them back as well? If so, this could be a 'quick' (but not really so quick, still exitting and loading) work around to this issue. Quite obviosuly, if there is a semi-pheasible option to implement R based MUDs, it is going to hold many inconveniences.

Date: 1/21/2006 12:40:02 PM Author: superchad sounds great, except it probably won't work unless maxis fixes the plopable residental bug, but we might be able to make some, if we use growable lots, like appartments next to a store, then we might be able to get some kind of mixed use. quote> I am not very familiar with the 'Residential Plop Bug' unfortunately, and was not aware it would cause such an interference. I am not sure exactly what this bug does or exactly what it does, but i read around a little bit. A few suggestions were that the plops would abandon due to education/workforce discrepancies, since the new lot would begin in the red level of education. If this is the case, is it possible ot make a ploppable Residential lot that can support any 3 of the wealth levels, thus much decreasing its chances of abandoning?

OK, mixed use developments are something Maxis definitely forgot about in their final product. Mixed use developments, namely downtown type buildings with floor level retail space and above level living areas, are very common in cities. I've got an idea to implement this concept in game. I'll start with it's inhereit downsides- it will be ploppable only, and in all actuallity it will be 2 lots or more, not one combined lot (will appear to b eone lot visually), and 1x1 developments will not be possible, and may promote menu clutter if not designed and distributed well This idea stems off of the concept already used in using buildings as props to create sky-walks over roads, or buildings to fit 45 degree intersections, such as Thelord's Tri-Link Tower. The illustration (quick sketch) will probably be most helpful in explaining this, but i'll throw some wordage in here too. MUD=Mixed Use Development C=Commercial R=Residential To create a 1 wide x 2 deep MUD, you would need to create 2 actual lots. a 1x1 C and a 1x1 R. The entire building would be placed on the commercial lot as a prop, and developed to overhang that lot and cover the R lot in front of it. The R lot would be created to be completely transparent, or perhaps transparent base texture with minimal props on it so that it can be identified or spiced up slightly. This R lot would be plopped next to the road frontage (R lots need road frontage), and the C lot would be plopped directly behind it. (Note that the C lot will need some kind of transit enabled access, whether it be a road, bus stop, parking lot, etc...) This should produce one building visually in a 1 wide x 2 deep space despite the fact there are actually 2 lots. This idea can be expanded upon immensely, and is not limited to commercail and residential. Another idea may be to make a C-R MUD that includes parking by incorporating a 3rd lot. Yet another idea to play with, especially with the idea of C-R MUDs in particular, is to use prop families. In the example illustrated and explained in this post, perhaps several different store frotn props could be tied together into one family so each time the R-Lot is plopped, it creates a different store front for the floor level. In addition, a custom query for the lots would probably be very helpful, at the very least with a small diagram indicating where the seperate lots that comprise the MUD should be placed/found. Hope everyone is understaning what I am trying to say. I can try to elaborate further if need be. Unfortunately, this is just an idea that has been formulating in my mind; I haven't the knowledge, time or resources to actually create anything myself yet. Hope this idea takes off and maybe a few ambitious BATters/Lot makers can come up with some nice things. I know i'd take the little extra time and complication it involves just to pseudo-implement the concept of mixed use within SC4. If i find spare time, i am going to learn the tools and knowledge in order to try to develop these myself The sketch: (includes sketh to show how a 2 wide x 1 deep (or deeper if you want) might be developed) https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//mixedusebw2.bmp align=baseline border=1>

Langem13: You are right, We have much more innocent blood on our hands than will normally be conceived. When I threw out that a million seemed to be slightly exaggerated, I did not even think of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Those two alone would set my view on numbers a little more correctly. For the most part though, civilians are not our military targets. Terrorists however, their primary target are civilians. But i will concede indeed millions of civilians blood are on our hands. On a side note, i am very frustrated that the US won't even sign the Land Mine ban. I've seen up close and personal how devastatingly ugly they are. :-( You've got a good mind about you, and i agree. I wish our leaders, representatives, all those politicians would spend a little more time with real issues than with such minute matters as banning flag burning. I hate to see it, but don't spend our money fighting it. Spend our money fixing our nation's problems and improving it so less people will be inclined to burn it. But, as is with most people, most our politicians are perhaps short sighted and look for the short term temporary solution-the quick fix- rather than a well designed and long-lived solution.

Langham13 indeed has made very good points. While the prospect of MILLIONS of innocent civilians blood on America's hand is a bit over the top, it is undeniable that the US does carry the blood of thousands upon thousands throughout it's history. Sadly, our advanced technology and 'precision' weapons and warfare are often not nearly as simple and clean cut as they may be made out to be. But, the vast majority of these civlilian deaths were incurred during a warfare operations where the civilians were not the target. It also really is not fair to only consider the US, or the UK, as some of the only and few sufferers of terrorism. While Al-qaeda and it's organizations may be concentrated on the western powers, there are innumerable nations, districs of many sorts, that suffer some form of what would generally be viewed as terrorism. To create an all inclusive list of these countries since terrorism surfaced would be entirely too long. So in addressing victims of terrorism, I believe perhaps it is not fair just to consider, the US, the UK, Spain, Turkey, or even just Israel or Palestine. Any country, any group, any PERSON that has been the victim, from an objective viewpoint, of tactics that are over the acceptable line for preserving humanity, should be in our mind, our hearts, our prayers, whatever have you. Now, a couple other points to consider. America, and the policies it is carrying out in it's countries name, are not running solo with these efforts. The two heavy powers of course, carrying out these policies in the ME curently are of course the UK and America. The international coalition for Iraq is terribly smaller and weaker than the giant, more effective coalition in Afghanistan/Operation Enduring Freedom. None the less, there is a coaltiion. Now, the point to question is, what policies that are being implemented within either Iraq or Afghanistan are wrong? While I'll be the first to admit, the intelligence used for starting the campaign in Iraq has yet to prove to be reasonably true(and who that ultimately boils down to is really something not easy to discern), what has been accomplished over there is really sort of amazing. In Afghanistan, it is unarguable the good things that their country and the coalition have worked together to bring to their people. Their first national election had a greater turnout than any of the US elections have EVER received. These people wanted change, and they were making it happen in the face of adversity. The same type of thing is happening in Iraq, however obviously not as effectively. But the schools/hospitals/infrastructure that have been reconstructed or constructed is an amazing thing in itself. Once again, while the people are getting anxious for us to leave and let themselves govern themselves, the majority are generally happy for the changes and transitions that are set upon them. They are no longer under the rule of a tyrannical dictatorship that favored merely a small section of its people, and gassed others. The insurgents, while originally perhaps were some of Husseins loyalist, are now mostly foreigners, entering Iraq to strike tremendous blows at the American public image. It is a form of politics that the terrorists are implementing, and it is effective. People all too often can not bring themselves to see what is hidden behind the front page. I mean that in both a metaphor, and literally. So, if the majority of people that these policies are most directly affecting do not think they are wrong, how can the rest of us who sit outside of it distantly say that it is wrong. Now, i understand that everyone has their own opinions and that is wonderful. But, remember to try to extend those opinions past the eyesight of merely yourself nad your thoughts/opinions. Think about who is affected most, and how they think about it. Warfare, and revolution/transition is never a clean ordeal, even in it's most humane ways proposed by the geneva convention and such. Violence is a fact of human nature in these times because humans are in general power hungry. What really does suck and i wish their was a better solution to is the fact that Iraq is getting the lower hand because of our presence their and the vulnerablity we have their. So, Iraq, is caught in the crossfire of the war against terror. This is a sad fact that is easily conceded. But ultimately what it is doing to their people too is pissing them off and they grow hatred towards these terrorists as well. EDIT: I am aware of a few typos and misuse of 'their' instead of 'there'; my apologies

I have been using Simtropolis for over a year now, and this is my very first post. This thread in particular has caught my attention as it very close to me, and a very serious issue at hand. The battle against terrorism is a very delicate situation. One of the biggest desried effects of terrorism is to frighten a nation's, or several nations', citizens in order to interrupt not only the economy, but the people's support for the action's of their government. These terrorists are insanely inhuman, not only killing innocent civilians of western countries, but innocent civilians of the Middle East. The majority of people in the ME are great people, many things about them are no different than you or me. A few beliefs, perhaps, but those are nothing that warrants slaughtering of people. These terrorists have not only advanced onto our lands(where we are most vulnerable), but are striking against THEIR OWN PEOPLE! Now, tell me, are these terrorists acting in the name of all their people? Are they justified by the Koran(in their radical interpretations) to kill their own people in their attempts to oust the 'infidels'? The idea that I think any human should adopt who understands that the tactics(not necessarily their causes, those are left to be personal opinions) of terrorists are simply wrong need to understand that they as a simple civilian are a target of their attacks. They wish to harness you with fear. Fear has been the ultimate tool in brainwashing, or perhaps for a softer term, persuading people since the beginning of time. Note: Any major religion uses the 'tool' of fear to guide their congregation in the 'right way', the 'good way'; animals are often domesticated using the ideas of fear; children learn and develop based on fear (a child touches a hot stove, burns himself, and thus is further scared to touch it again). So, the terrorists are not stupid, they understand how to manipulate people. However, i believe they have under-estimated the ideas of patriotism, nationalism, and even humanity. So, even as little tiny pawns in this 'game', we can fight back. By continuing to show resolve through these tough times, as our governments and armies are pro-active in up-rooting and destroying these terrorists. Granted, if each person who puts a signature up could somehow materialistically help the effort, it would be a wondeful thing. This is not pheasible however, but i encourage anyone who can do it, to do it. So, hopefully, most everyone can open their mind enough to realize whether they think the terrorists may be right in their causes and wants, that in no way and by no means are they right in taking innocent lives who are just living their life day by day, struggling through work so they can go home to their loved ones afterwards. And with this open mind, understand that any little bit any one person can do is remarkable. Let me finish by addind that I am a reservist in the United States Army. I was mobilized for one year and spent 11 months in Afghanistan. In my time their i got to meet and converse with many of the local nationals there. Not one of the locals i spoke with supported either Taliban or Al-qaeda. They were supportive of the coalitions efforts. I have pictures of little kids running up to me to shake my hand, and saluting me as I passed by. Do net let the media destroy you, or your country. The media has the right to free press, and that is the way it should stay. But, because of that and that media is a business, it publishes/airs what sells, and sadly human nature likes to buy drama and grief. Happiness doesn't make a headline in these days. The number of good things that are being accomplished for these people are vast greater than you will ever see/hear in the media. And, do not attack, or flame, others. The best way to make a point or to teach somebody something(lol, aside from fear) is to simply be civil about it. Thats what all this boils down to in the end, is civility. The terrorists, our wars against these terrorists, are all un-civil things. Lets all do the best we can to keep the level of civility as high as we can. So, a combination of soldiers and smart bombs, and civilians with patriotism and resolve (who do need to keep governments in check as well) are humanity's best weapon. This thread is great, I extend my support!