jap88

Originally posted by: mujik jap88, there is a tool in the second menu just below the roads tool that have some overpasses, they will openup accordingly to the population you have.quote> Ah yes, the highway tool. I guess I should rephrase my question a bit. It did sound like that's what I wanted. I meant that in some cities I've seen some of the basic roads going over/under each other. Usually via going underground and coming back up again. That's what I need to figure out. Highways unlock at 500,000 I believe. Thanks for the response though

Originally posted by: PyroMancer Originally posted by: jap88 In fact, if we talk about real life, lowering taxes only creates profitability in that they retain more of their original profit. The only way in which they will generate more revenue for the government in terms of taxes is if they expand their revenue base. But I don't quite see how they would do that in CXL. Of course, I don't suspect MC would understand that idea either. quote> Actually your wrong about this. Taxes do effect the profitability of businesses beyond simply how much they take at a 1 to 1 ratio like you suggest. You said you were currently minoring in Econ so not sure if you've gotten this far. The economic concept of Monetary Viscosity effects how health the economy is. What this has to do with is how quickly money "turns over" in an economy. And quiet simply it goes like this. You buy something for $100 so now that person/company had $100 dollar. They then maybe put $10 in savings, $10 in taxes, and spend the remaining $80. Now this new person/company has $80 and they put $8 in savings, $8 in taxes, and spend the remaining $64. This cycle continues until at last you reach the end of a predetermined period, say a year. So in the end that original $100 dollars generated $244 dollars worth of economic activity just from it's first 3 cycles. This principle is very important to tourist towns as it's how a few visitors help generate large amounts of business and growth far beyond what they actually pay out. Well in RL since companies automatically take withholdings for taxes that means that is money you don't have for the rest of the year to help generate further economic activity for the rest of the year. But also since the effect is cumulative the larger the tax the more is pulled out of the economy at each cycle thus further hindering growth at an ever increasing rate. Of course in most econ classes they simply use spending and saving in their examples to not over complicate it for new econ students. And they talk about how the savings rate lowers how much activity the original amount generates but this applies to taxes as well as the % people set aside for savings. And back when Japan had it's econ crisis several years ago they traced the problem in part to the savings rate. As most Japanese has rather large sums of money in their accounts even though times were tough and work was hard to find. Their were of course other issues but it was a contributing factor. Anyhow I've drifted off topic a little. The reason this Monetary Viscosity effects how profitable the business is comes from the fact that more economic activity is generated. So the business has a better chance to earn more money. The problem I think a lot of people have with econ is they see it like a giant pie. In that if someone has more I have less, and that for someone else to gain say $1 more then someone else must loss/giveup $1. But this is not really the case as by it's very nature the principle of Monetary Viscosity shows us the economy is a very fluid thing and depending on how fast things flow through the system along with how much is taken out at each point we can actually increase and decrease the size of that imaginary "pie". Thus it is actually possible to make it so everybody wins/gains which some people find as very hard to understand and grasp. quote> Yes, I skipped over that for two reasons. One, it gets confusing. But two, and more important to the conversation here, is that business within game have a maximum profitability based on what type they are (manufacturing, offices, etc.) that is is impossible for them to surpass. (Perhaps they modeled MR=MC, eh?) Even though there is higher viscosity, if all your business are limited in profitability by the program AND are unable to expand their business, you're only going to see so much effect. And, as I said earlier, if you have other businesses that are 100% profitable at a higher tax rate, and pull in much more money than offices do, you may be better off leaving the tax rate as is. High-tech is also weird, they tend to go bankrupt even when all seems to be fine (all resource needs met, good traffic flow, no polution, enough workers, no overproduction...), but I'm starting to think they're just like elites: Buggers to pleasequote> High-tech is a bit of a bugger to please. You have to bring down your tax rate quite significantly in order to make them 100% profitable. Also, I tried lowering my taxes a bit. It seemed to work fine for High-tech and offices and increased their profitability. But it wasn't enough to make up for my loss from manufacturing. I could try an office-only city, but then I'd have to import high-tech and all my industry...*sigh*

Originally posted by: 0wn3d Well its simply an economic rule. I forgot what its called, but basically there is a point where you would make the most tax revenue, and increasing or decreasing taxes at the point will decrease revenu. Decreaing taxes would decrease your revenue in the obvious way, and increasing them would cause people to have less money to spend so you wouldn't be able to tax sales and that kind of stuff as much. So yes, taxing more isn't always better, but for a short term thing it can help keep you out of the red for just a little while you can make some more plots for things to develop and then lower taxes and hope your back in the black quote> As someone going for a minor in Economics, I feel I have to say something here. There are many theories regarding an optimal point of taxation (the most basic one being The Laffer Curve, which shows an inverted parabola). In practice, it is much more difficult to ac tually estimate where that point is. (In the real world, progressive taxes changes everything and allows for even better optimization, but games use a flat tax.) Now, the idea would appear to work if all you really have is office space, high-tech industry, shops, and hotels. None of them seem to operate maximally at most points. However, if you have a city that is reasonably heavy on industry, especially manufacturing, it may not make sense to lower taxes at all. As far as I've seen, manufacturing and heavy industry still function at 100% at the preset corporate tax rate of 25%. In fact, if we talk about real life, lowering taxes only creates profitability in that they retain more of their original profit. The only way in which they will generate more revenue for the government in terms of taxes is if they expand their revenue base. But I don't quite see how they would do that in CXL. Of course, I don't suspect MC would understand that idea either.

How do you create overpasses with roads? My roads always try to merge with each other no matter the height difference.

Been having the same problem here as well. No idea what the cause is.

My music doesn't even play 90% of the time, let alone any sounds other than the standard ones played when clicking on a structure.

Originally posted by: TexDave81 Plenty of cities also don't maintain or build schools, hospitals, layout subdivisions, build highways, water lines, garbage service, ports, decide when an area is open for development. Playing such a game would be boring as hell though. My city owns natural gas wells on it's property and uses them for the gas department, it doesn't do half the stuff I metioned above though.quote> This is true, at least the first part. I have found in mosty city-builders you take more the role of both the state and city government in that you zone, but much of the upkeep for different services is often done by the state in many areas. Though, there really isn't a state (or federal government for that matter). Not a single one is responsible for finding goods to be used by private enterprises. I sure didn't have to do it in SC4, and that game was still certainly fun. In CXL you have to babysit businesses. And surely your city doesn't simply give natural gas away for free like our cities seem to. The business say they have to buy the fuel. Well who are they buying it from? We're just giving it away, not selling. A rotating restauraunt on a tower was built by the city of San Antonio for Hemisphare, which while being a financial boondogle is considered to be the seminal moment in San Antonios modern history where the community galvanized together.quote> Yes, I know about that actually. However, the upper class in san antonio was not complaining to their city government about a lack of leisure activities. The city will usually maintain parks (and that within parks, like tennis courts, playgrounds, etc.) and some musuems will be maintained by state funds (And donations), but most of these 'leisure activites' would be privately owned. They would be built in an area zoned for commercial use by the city. If we are going for realism real life leaders have next to no clue real time what jobs to add to serve the unemployed nor do the know exactly how many jobs a block of medium inudtrial zone will provide and to whom.quote> I can give you that, however I should be able to make an accurate guess based upon the number of people that are employed by similarly-sized zones. But I don't have that information either. Public services generally have a city wide rating in the description. In other words unlimited range and all have a relative efficiency. Each sector aggreagates. How much for a given population you can find out by clicking on the pop panel and going to the satisfaction tab then placing said serviceand watching the satisfaction change. Don't try and make them 100% if people are still moving in you are fine. On retail place them one at a time spread out. On farms don't get pollution near them or run 100% employment since they are far from your city center usually they are the last place the workers will choose to work if given options. 5% unemployment is a good target.quote> Well, yes, technically they have unlimited range, but people's satisfaction with a particular service decreases the further away from the service they are. It would be nice to have a relative efficiency to work with. As I said, I've had housing directly next to both a High School and Elementary school and still have a low education satisfaction. My current PO city is at 850k population without a lick of oil, industry, or manufacturing. Think the high costs in SP screw you, but read the money making guide thread for some hints. A larger size city you get some buildings that increase production of resources and the higher tier zones use different inputs. high density office for example consumes high tech. Don't try to keep everyone happy is first off.quote> Do you not even import any oil, industry, or manufacturing? High tech uses manufacturing I believe (which uses heavy industry). I'm not exactly sure how you could do that unless you import the services from other cities. (Much cheaper in PO as you said).

I paid 80% of the nromal price for 80% of a game. It still has it's bugs and kinks, but I think I got what I paid for. $10 for mass transit, and I'll be happy.

I'll skip the "how much I love Sim City 4" bit and get right to it here. This is long, so be ready. CXL is a fun game if you can manage to get into it, but ther are some pretty major design flaws, especially when it comes to single player. (And lets be honest, who's going to pay per month for a city builder?). CXL is a game designed around trade. Unfortunately, that is almost impossible in single player. Our loving madoff gives us only 2500 for a token while asking for 10000 in return. By design of the game, you cannot support your city without trade anyway. The maps are made in a way that it is impossible to be self-sufficient. At a rate of 4 to 1, trade becomes near impossible. To add to that, since when are cities responsible for importing the goods used by PRIVATE businesses? Why do I need to pay for fuel when it's used by a company for profit? Why must I have upkeep on an oil field? It should be privately owned, if not, I should at least be selling the fuel, not giving it away for free to local businesses. Same thing goes for leisure here. In fact, this is an idea that really makes no sense. Since when are cities responsilbe for maintaining bowling alleys? Some things I understand, like basketball/tennis courts and museums. But a rotating restaurant on top of a tower? Come on. Also, when did it become more than one and a half times as expensive to maintain a tennis court than a school? The percentages instead of hard numbers are annoying as well. The percentage relative to how much you need changes constantly. When it says 5% unemployment for unqualified, I don't know how much industry I need to make to employ them. If they gave me hard numbersmthen at least I'd have an idea how much to zone. Wait, no I wouldn't. The industires only say they employ "few," "some," or "many" of a specific class of people. Really helpful. It also is unclear to what range different city services are effective and who is benefitting from them. I have a homes for qualified workers right next to both an elementary school and high school, yet have low education satisfaction. The only information I get is that the efficiency is 'high.' Placing public services then becomes a guessing game. It seems near impossible to satisfy these people. Why do people want more shops when the ones I have too many already and are being forced out of business? (Or on the other hand, why are farms going bankrupt when there is vast undersupply of that good?) It's not as if I put 20 of them next to each other, I spread them out to make sure they are as effective as possible. You'll find most of the game is spent trying to get your budget to balance. Early on is no problem, but as soon as you start to run out of fuel, water, or fertile land, you're completely screwed. Unless you try to satisfy leisure needs. Then you're screwed long before that. The ability to manage a budget is completely based on the already-flawed concept of trade that the game implements that only really works with the PO anyway. Mass transit. Need I say more? I will though. I'm at a developing city of 100,000 residents right now (I abandoned my 300,000 one after I realized there wasn't a chance I'd be able to trade for fuel). I'm already having issues with congested roads. There is only so much you can do, unless you feel like deleting tons of public buildings and residences to make roads larger. Once you start doing that though, the zones become incredibly tiny, and near worthless. This is one of the main reasons mass transit exists in the first place, so the government doesn't have to use eminent domain to build up a bigger road. The zoning also has a few issues. It's fun (I really do like the free-zone tool). However, there is this thing with the square zone tool where the zone mysteriously becomes ever so slightly smaller until, all of a sudden, the zone can only fit 4 lots instead of 6. Why is the zone curving? It's supposed to be a rectangle. Our inability to rezone is also burdensome. Instead we have to go through each zone we want to upgrade, delete all the current buildings, and then put new lots in for a different density. Despite all of these issues, it is still possible to have fun with the game to a point. My personal biggest issue is managing cash flow. There are too many expenses and too few sources of income. The residential zones, and corresponding industrial zones, don't bring in enough cash to maintain all the services required for that area of the city and that industrial section's share of resources (electricity, waste, water, etc.) I'll still be playing for a while, but I think CXL will soon be shelved until some of the issues are resolved.