mmmfloorpie

I haven't been here since October and was really turned off by the how they locked things in solo mode and different offer public transportation. Now I'm glad to see that blew up in their face, but, I still don't know whether to buy CXL 2011 if it ever comes out! Very glad I waited and didn't buy then! I know alot of people here tried to tell MC that the planet offer would never work (I was one of them). City builder players don't care about multiplayer, they want an extremely indepth solo simulator and when you take that away from them, you will piss them off forever.

Originally posted by: sparky66 also, about the mass transit. i don't know anywhere near where i live (south of england) that doesn't have some sort of mass transit, no matter how small. the village where i live has a regular bus service as well as a train station. in the countryside there are even request bus stops for single cottages in the middle of nowhere! also, i know of a request train station that only serves a single pub, but you have to walk across two muddy fields to get there! people saying mass transit is not important are, in my opinion, wrong. i used to love planning mass transit in SC4, and was looking forward to doing the same in CXL. However it seems only PO subscribers will get the privelage of mass transit. i would gladly buy a solo mode mass transit expansion (like SC4 Rush Hour) if MC released it. quote> The name of the game is Cities XL... To me, that means you are going to be building an "extra large" city in a game that is "extra loaded" with features and options... To not have mass transit is like having a one dimensional game... Only one transportation option? Really? How are you going to make a successful city without mass transit? Traffic will build up and cripple your city! Honestly, I'd hope that MC wouldn't make us pay extra for mass transit. It's something that should be included in the $39 fee... However, with the current state of affairs, I would pay extra to get EVERY mass transit form in single player. Please don't make us wait for 6 months paying for the Planet Offer just so we can get all the mass trans options... That would get extremely expensive just for mass transit!

Originally posted by: ForceInfinity Originally posted by: mmmfloorpie I would have ABSOLUTELY no problem if Microsoft wanted to sell their consoles for half price and sold their games for $20 less than their PS3 counter parts. Hell, sell every Xbox without an ethernet card and if people choose to play online and subscribe to XBL, Microsoft will Fedex you an ethernet card that is a rental included in the monthly fee... Unfortunately, this is not how they operate. I really don't know why computer game sales are slumping except for MMOs... I prefer the computer interface over the console interface hands down. A mouse and a keyboard are way better than 6 buttons and a stiff mini joystick... I've been craving a new "sim" game for years. The sad thing is, no one seems to be making them. I've gone back and played all my strategy/sim games a thousand times over and I'm really starting to get tired. I plead for something new! I'm a huge fan of games where you build and then manage something... I love the Civilization games and the Sim City games.... Luckily, Civilizations are being made and I'm hopeful that Civ 5 isn't that far away... They seem to have modded Civ4 into as many ways as they possibly can by now, so with any luck, we'll be play a new one soon! The Star Trek MMO might be fun too, who knows... As for a new Sim City, I was really hopeful when I heard about Cities XL. Now, not so much. Adding mass trans to single player would go a long way in healing the wounds. Somehow I think that MC would rather secure longterm profitable that MMOs bring instead of the one time investment that a single player would bring. Please "do the right thing" MC! quote> The PC issue boils down to a few different issues: 1. Barrier for entry is high. PC's that are capable of playing some of the triple A titles out there are much more expensive than any console. Those PC's that are cheap come with integrated chipsets that can't handle some of the more advanced games. So if you go on a dollar basis, it would stand to reason that you'll have many more console owners vs game capable pc owners. Take Mass Effect for example. Your install base in the XBox 360 is on the order of 10s of millions of consoles. On the PC's you're looking at a small fraction of that (at least a small fraction capable of playing the game) 2. PC's as a platform: Gaming PC's have more grunt than a console, but again since there is no baseline on a PC (differing OS's, differing memory configurations, differing motherboards, graphics, sound, etc). Games get released that crash due to one configuration issue or another, or because some graphics driver didn't measure up. This makes support costs huge for developers, and unless their publishers pony up some cash, or the developer didn't get enough sales, you sometimes won't get the support to fix the aforementioned issues. This also has a secondary issue of giving people pause buying a PC game in the first place for fear of crashing. 3. Instant gratification of consoles: People want that instant gratification, and don't want to put up with internet activations, long installs, bugs, etc when they can just buy a console game, pop it into the shelf and play. 4. Piracy. Yes that P word. This undoubtably hurts sales of the offline games. 5. Why are MMO's so popular with publishers? You can't pirate them. An even more worrying trend may be brought on by OnLive if that ever takes off. Basically with that thing, all your games are on the cloud and there will be no notion ever again of owning a copy of the game. And god forbid if OnLive dies... or your internet, or their servers... Anyways, The Nintendo Wii's onlive offering is thin at best, and you don't see hardly any online multiplayer if at all. PS3... well I don't use their online offering, so I can't speak intelligently to their merits vs XBox 360 lives. So you likely have a valid point and will concede that to you.quote> Ya, but if you think about it, it's always been this way. You've always had to pay for a good computer in order to play the good games. People always got the "instant gratification" from consoles. Piracy has always been a huge problem for PCs. There used to be practically no security features on PC games and people were free to copy as much as they wanted... The difference, is that 10 years ago, PC gaming was intensely profitable and popular. Even with all the piracy, they made a load of money. Part of the problem (atleast I think), is that when the tech bubble poped back in 2000 it took with it alot of the smaller developers with it... The remaining ones were eventually all bought by the strongest companies and merged... Now these companies focus on "what's profitable" instead of "what's new". Thus, there is alot less innovation and creativity. All we get are an endless line of first person shooters and sequels to only the most popular game series... Maybe the technology curve has really exploded too, I don't know... I can still play most new games fairly well on this ATI x1300 that I've had for 2+ years now... And I have to think that people that enjoy playing these games are still out there... They just need to make their voices heard. I'm only 25 now and when I was a teenager I loved playing these types of games just as much as I do now... So I don't think it's just a generational thing either... I think alot of younger people would like these games too if only someone made them! Sadly, if you are the type of gamer that likes to kill aliens with shotguns, there are plenty of games for you... For everyone else, we are stuck to playing our old games and hoping a new company comes along to make something new! Right now, I'm waiting eagerly for Tropico 3 and maybe Cities XL if they atleast promise to release mass transit to SP... If they do that, I'll go out and buy the game tomorrow!

Just to be clear, if you pay for 3 months and get all the updates during those three months, if you stop paying, you will not be able to access this extra content. The upgrades are NOT available in single player, therefore, if you stop buying the Planet Offer, you will not be able to continue using these upgrades.

Originally posted by: ForceInfinity I disagree that XBL is the biggest rip off. Basically what you get out of the deal is that Microsoft hosts all the game servers that you log into to play the game. This service is universal to everyone. It also comes with the matchmaking/leader boards/etc that are again hosted on their server. All this for what amounts to maybe $4 a month. The other thing you overlook is that from the business point of view, one of the only areas of the PC gaming market that is growing anymore is the MMO games. Not only that, this PO solves their piracy problem and kills the 2nd market. I don't like this trend at all, but it is what is is. I've already passed on Aion, and other games because of lack of time. For for MC dying? I seriously doubt they'll go belly up, even if this game bombs. They're a much more firmly established company than say Flagship Studios was. MC also has the benefit of having several other published games from which to draw revenue. The $64,000 question that remains to be seen is whether or not the PO subscription really justifies the benefits for you. In my observations of the game features, I'm not anywhere near as hung up on the lack of mass transit as others. (Personally, I'd pave a whole city under with freeways if I had my choice on things). It was the lack of highways that kept me away from City Life. So on the surface of it, Cities XL would suit my purposes, but I'm reserving my judgement for now. Originally posted by: mmmfloorpie Sim City 4 was a more complete game 7 years ago, than this game is now. The only thing that has changed is the graphics. If they are expecting us to put $40 into a game and then $9.99 a month for the Planet Offer, yes I expect a 200% perfect game... I really don't understand some people nowadays... They don't have the same frame of mind as people did 20 years ago. You are the customer and must spend your money wisely. Game companies must create a quality product and support it in order to EARN your money. Nowadays, the younger generation seems to think "meh, I don't care if companies bilk me for monthly online subscription fees or if they produce a sub standard game and I waste $50 on it." It's like they think that being able to buy a game/subscribe to online content is a privelage... Like the game companies went to all this trouble to make a game, so why shouldn't they get your money? No matter how lousy the product? To me, XBL is the biggest rip off ever. You pay for the console, you pay for the game and you pay for the internet. Then they expect you to pay for the privelage of accessing the multiplayer content of games you already paid for with hardware that you've already paid for? Factor in the fact that everyone else you are playing against online has had to buy the hardware, buy the game and pay for the internet, you've got millions of dollars that consumers have already poured into Microsoft... Then they have the balls to demand $60 a year to allow you to access something you've already paid for? PS3 doesn't charge for multiplayer and yet the games cost the same amount... So tell me, what are Xbox players getting that Ps3 players aren't? Absolutely nothing! Don't just roll over and accept mediocrity... Stand up for your rights as a consumer! quote> quote> Ok, so Microsoft hosts all of the servers... Well Nintendo and Sony have their own servers for the Wii and PS3 and they cost absolutely nothing to access. I don't have much experience with Wii, but I know from the PS3 servers that they are just as good as any other gaming server I've ever played on... They have leaderboards and all that stuff... Net cost to me: $0... If I play it once a month it's the same cost as if I played it 1000 times a month. PS3 games cost exactly the same as Xbox games cost. So I'll ask again, what are you getting by paying a fee that I'm not getting by not paying a fee? I would have ABSOLUTELY no problem if Microsoft wanted to sell their consoles for half price and sold their games for $20 less than their PS3 counter parts. Hell, sell every Xbox without an ethernet card and if people choose to play online and subscribe to XBL, Microsoft will Fedex you an ethernet card that is a rental included in the monthly fee... Unfortunately, this is not how they operate. I really don't know why computer game sales are slumping except for MMOs... I prefer the computer interface over the console interface hands down. A mouse and a keyboard are way better than 6 buttons and a stiff mini joystick... I've been craving a new "sim" game for years. The sad thing is, no one seems to be making them. I've gone back and played all my strategy/sim games a thousand times over and I'm really starting to get tired. I plead for something new! I'm a huge fan of games where you build and then manage something... I love the Civilization games and the Sim City games.... Luckily, Civilizations are being made and I'm hopeful that Civ 5 isn't that far away... They seem to have modded Civ4 into as many ways as they possibly can by now, so with any luck, we'll be play a new one soon! The Star Trek MMO might be fun too, who knows... As for a new Sim City, I was really hopeful when I heard about Cities XL. Now, not so much. Adding mass trans to single player would go a long way in healing the wounds. Somehow I think that MC would rather secure longterm profitable that MMOs bring instead of the one time investment that a single player would bring. Please "do the right thing" MC!

Sim City 4 was a more complete game 7 years ago, than this game is now. The only thing that has changed is the graphics. If they are expecting us to put $40 into a game and then $9.99 a month for the Planet Offer, yes I expect a 200% perfect game... I really don't understand some people nowadays... They don't have the same frame of mind as people did 20 years ago. You are the customer and must spend your money wisely. Game companies must create a quality product and support it in order to EARN your money. Nowadays, the younger generation seems to think "meh, I don't care if companies bilk me for monthly online subscription fees or if they produce a sub standard game and I waste $50 on it." It's like they think that being able to buy a game/subscribe to online content is a privelage... Like the game companies went to all this trouble to make a game, so why shouldn't they get your money? No matter how lousy the product? To me, XBL is the biggest rip off ever. You pay for the console, you pay for the game and you pay for the internet. Then they expect you to pay for the privelage of accessing the multiplayer content of games you already paid for with hardware that you've already paid for? Factor in the fact that everyone else you are playing against online has had to buy the hardware, buy the game and pay for the internet, you've got millions of dollars that consumers have already poured into Microsoft... Then they have the balls to demand $60 a year to allow you to access something you've already paid for? PS3 doesn't charge for multiplayer and yet the games cost the same amount... So tell me, what are Xbox players getting that Ps3 players aren't? Absolutely nothing! Don't just roll over and accept mediocrity... Stand up for your rights as a consumer!

Usually the launch day is the only day they run out of stock... All of the orders pile up over the months before the release date... Once they get the second shipment in, they usually don't ever go out of stock again... Something tells me that there was some sort of mistake with the store that I bought it from... The official release date they listed was "Oct 7"... It was October 9th in North America... No other site that I can find in North America is selling the boxed copies... I'm pretty sure it's exclusively a mail order thing by Monte Cristo... That said, it prevented me from wasting my money on this game!

They won't offer the extra content packs for singleplayer. If they did, people would just buy them and then never spend another cent... By keeping it in multiplayer, you have to KEEP paying for the planet offer in order to keep using all the extra content... Sucks, don't it?

Originally posted by: gnomonite Did you get the confirmation of the refund from them?quote> I didn't buy from Monte Cristo. I found a store here that is selling the boxed copies online... They were "Out of Stock" so my order was pending. I just went in and cancelled before anything got charged to my credit card.

Originally posted by: LBII 3rd pack! How can you guys can know precisely that it will be in the third pack and not in the 2nd ou the 4th one? In fact, how do you know the content of the futures PO updates? You are well informed! EDIT : OMG! It's on the official website! So many promises! Lying down bus lines? Woah! My intentions to buy the game just went from 50% to 75%! quote> How do they know Monte Cristo won't go belly up before they get to the 3rd pack? It still doesn't fix the problem that mass transit isn't in single player. If you stop paying for the planet offer, you'll never be able to use mass transit, or any of the content you paid for, ever again... All you can do is play the striped down single player... Makes sense right? First you pay for the game, then you pay for the Planet Offer to get the content packs, THEN you have to continue paying for the Planet Offer to continue using the content you've already paid for twice. Monte Cristo did this to guaruntee revenue for the next 10 years because they saw that we are still playing Sim City 4. Unfortunately, they shot themselves in the foot by pissing off the hardcore community (who are the only ones that will buy this game). Like they are only selling this game by mail order in North America (by far the largest market). The only people who are going to buy it are the ones that have been following it's progress like all of us. They are banking that we, the hardcore fans, will spread the word about this game and encourage others to buy. That's why they included a demo disc! It was cheaper to do mail order only and hope that word of mouth would generate a lot of interest. Unfortunately, word of mouth can work against you as well.

Originally posted by: DCMetro34 Originally posted by: mmmfloorpie Originally posted by: dedgren Oh, and for those who haven't been paying attention for the past decade, Maxis didn't bail. It had ceased to exist as an independent company before development of SC4 ever started. Wicked old EA developed the game we all know and love. Maxis isn't coming back, but it wasn't ever there in the first place. Davidquote> ...I will say though, that as much as I loved Maxis, they weren't a perfect dev either... They released a string of bad Sim games in the late 90s that continually disappointed fans because they were unfinished and glitchy.So let's stop pretending that Maxis is completely unfaliable.... quote> So, if Maxis also made a bad string of games, why have so many people lost hope on MC? They are in a similar situation, most people said CityLife wasn't all that great. If Maxis could turn the program around, and make SC4, why can't CXL be MC's turnaround? I think people will regain hope in MC, and it will be the next decade's Maxis. quote> There has never been a bad Sim City game... Had there been, we wouldn't be here... The bad games Maxis made were one off titles like SimIsle, SimCopter, Streets of SimCity, SimSafari etc... And back then games weren't hyped as much. Generally, you didn't know anything about a game except what was on the back of the box as you were reading it in the store. MC REALLY set our expectations high and has failed to deliver. That will never be the same as Maxis making a crappy game back in 1997...

Originally posted by: deanco Originally posted by: Inge Jones My comment is just that I think public transport is basic to a city simulation, not to be considered an add-on. No one who is thinking straight can think of public transport as an later optional addon to a city building game.quote> This. Yes, I know I'm new here, but perhaps my outlook could be useful. A few posts above, someone was getting excited about the fact that, perhaps, the developer will, some day, provide public transportation in its city builder game as a paid addon. This makes my head explode. I can compare it to a Civilization game where the developer would, perhaps, at some indeterminant time in the future, might provide a Diplomacy option as a downloable addon for $5 or $10. Not having diplomacy is not a game breaker, you can still play, but one would wonder why this feature was not present to begin with. Now imagine if instead of a paid addon, Diplomacy would cost $5 per month and you had to be online to use it? This is the present state of things. People, get a grip. You're getting shafted. quote> Sadly, this isn't even the situation... To use your analogy, imagine if in a Civilization game, they didn't have diplomacy from the start. They promised that eventually it would be added and if you paid a monthly fee, you'd have access to it. NOW imagine that they also said that when the diplomacy option was finally made available, that it would be ONLY for multiplayer gaming and it would NOT be offered in singe player. Then imagine they said they hoped to have "buses" available by december and that they would incrementally add more transportation options over time. That's right, they want you to subscribe to the "Planet Offer" for MONTHS while they string you along and make sure you keep paying for the online service... $20 they would create a new form of mass transit every other month so that people would be more apt to purchase the 3 month subscription at a discount instead of buying one month at a time... What a kick to the face right?

They won't do any "stop gap" solutions. They are probably thinking that everything will be resolved within the next week... FYI, I already canceled my order. Let you guys test it out before I commit.

Originally posted by: dedgren Oh, and for those who haven't been paying attention for the past decade, Maxis didn't bail. It had ceased to exist as an independent company before development of SC4 ever started. Wicked old EA developed the game we all know and love. Maxis isn't coming back, but it wasn't ever there in the first place. Davidquote> Thank you! I am stunned by how many people still think that Maxis is a company that still makes games... I'm sorry to dash all of your hopes, but Maxis has been dead for like the past 10 years... EA tried to make Maxis another one of their "production houses" after they bought them. Since then, they have totally dissolved the company and the only remnant is Wil Wright. EA is behind the helm so blame them, not Maxis! I will say though, that as much as I loved Maxis, they weren't a perfect dev either... They released a string of bad Sim games in the late 90s that continually disappointed fans because they were unfinished and glitchy.So let's stop pretending that Maxis is completely unfaliable... Oh, and can I say a big THANK GOD that EA didn't buy Take2 (Rockstar) games last year! Imagine how crappy the GTA series would have become... You would have had to pay to download each car, each gun, each piece of clothing...

I, for one, will not buy this game until it is confirmed that mass transit will be in single player. That is rediculous. Image Sim City 4 without roads. It's not even worth playing.