deanco

Note: I like Sim City-like games, but am not insane about them. This is from the point of view of a causal sim player. OK, got the game yesterday, put in several hours. First, the good. The prettiest Sim City ever. Easy on the eye. Two, the gameplay seems to be simplified a bit, and for a casual player, that's a good thing. I just wanna slap the zones down without worrying too much about the details, and this lets me do that. Now, the bad, in no order: The login screen doesn't remember your password. You must type it in every time. Worse, it appears you can't even play single player if your internet connection is down. This is hugely bad. I have the (French) box next to me, nowhere does it say you need a connection to play at all, which in Europe, is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Text and icons WAAAAY too small at 1680x1050. Even blowing up the UI to 100% in the options doesn't help. The middle mouse wheel rotate is way too sensitive. The slightest motion sends it spinning uncontrollably. Nobody in beta commented on this? If somebody finds an .ini with this setting, please let me know. The 2X, 3X etc time speed controls are too tiny, and the display of the time multiplier is covered up by the little clock, making it impossible to see what multiplier you're at half the time. The info icons to the right, if you click on one that has a lot of elements to it, then click one, it gets bigger, covering up the elements to the top and bottom of it, making it hard to click on them subsequently. I feel like I'm in the beta, actually. The above bugs, I didn't even have to go looking for them; they found me. In terms of the game, it really appears the single player is hugely gimped in favor of the MMO part. No buses, trams, or trains. The trading part is the most blatant. You only have the one guy, his prices are through the roof, and 90% of the time, he doesn't want to trade anyway. Would it have killed them to have several AI's, insuring you could get the resources you need? As it stands, if you don't have oil, you may as well forget about manufacturing. While we're at it, why do I have to go to the trade screen to see the resources I need? For a game that basically tells me how to play it, couldn't there be a message, 'you need electricity'? The first inkiling of that is the icons over the buildings. At any rate, for scarce goods, it doesn't matter, since the AI won't trade. Finally, in the trade screen, I have -1 of electricity, say. What do I need to build to get it up to 0? The description of the power plant: 'produces some electricity'. That's a big help. Needs several patches, but mainly, needs to bring the offline game more in line with the MMO part, so I don't feel like I bought half a game.

Train. Wreck.

My Gamespot reader review (20 out of 22 recommends): http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/citiesxl/player_review.html?id=686630&tag=player-reviews;continue and another for a German site: http://www.game-szene.org/allgemeiner-gamer-talk/6059-cities-xl-dean-hat-es-ausprobiert.html As a friend of mine remarked: deanco - telling the truth about Cities XL, one language group at a time.

It's not the biggest failing, but it's the failing that best seems to symbolize what's wrong with this whole project; When I play single player, before I can play, I get a nag screen. Actually, I get 3 nag screens, exhorting me to subscribe, and I have to click through each one, and specify at the end that no, I most assuredly do not want to give you money every month for a chat box and promises, before I can play this game I paid 45

Originally posted by: Overkast I would absolutely buy this game and subscribe to PO if MC promised those 4 bullets to us at reasonable prices for earning ownership on new content releases. HOWEVER, if they want my monthly cash then they absolutely would need to make it a guaranteed promise that I'm not pissing my money away with nothing to show for it in the long-term. quote> But there's no such thing as a guaranteed promise. Of course, it depends who you're talking about. If it's your best friend you've known for 25 years, you can probably expect him to keep that promise 99.99% of the time. On the other hand, a for-profit corporation, that appears to desperately need a steady influx of monthly capital... well, I'll let you place your own percentage on that.

When I access a data overlay, such as arable land, education, traffic, etc, that data overlay should stay on the screen until i tell it to go away. I want to see the info change in real time, and not have to ping pong back and forth between the overlay and what I'm doing. While we're on the subject, a bug report: If you have a data overlay selected, then you click a road or whatever, when you're done building, the overlay is still selected to the right but does not display. I have to deselect it then select it again to get it to show. I have lots, lots more, but apparently most of my complaints were brought up ad infinitum during the beta, so I'll stop there. caps changed to bold. thanks for cooperating.

Well, my 7 free days were up, and sure enough, I get a nag screen. A nag screen, on a game I paid 45

Originally posted by: Overkast I haven't bought the game yet, and reading all of these issues is really discouraging to me now. I think the game looks fantastic and I really and truly want to get the game. But MC is really pissing me off on a variety of levels because they're getting so much of the equation all wrong. It seems like every action they've made for this game is centered completely around how much extra cash they can squeeze out of an audience. Don't they even realize they're marketing to a specific niche audience such as the Simtropolis community – who are a collection of insightful, dedicated city-building enthusiasts who have taken countless hours, blood, sweat, and tears of their own time to expand functionality of a game like SC4? I think MC is completely insulting it's own audience by releasing an incomplete product and trying to buy themselves more time and funding to finish the game through the current PO model. And their extreme measures to segregate against single-players is so morally wrong its... well... opressive. And in the middle of a global recession on top of it!!! The irony to me is that in trying to build a sustainable cash-flow gimmick in the PO model, MC is doing quite the opposite for themselves with the bad taste they're leaving in our mouthes. Pretty much sealing the fate on their own game IMO. Oh, yeah – I'd like to mention that they also dissed me too when I emailed them asking to get an activation to try the demo a day after they closed down the demo trials. They said the "full retail version will have a trial disc in it for a friend." Oh really? Thanks guys... you won't even let me try the game out without trying to guarantee yourself $40 in the pocket from a full game purchase. Really??? Who doesn't offer free trials for their games????!!!!! It was obvious to me from that point that MC had something to hide in this game, or they just didn't give a hoot about a long-term strategy. This thread pretty much reinforces my speculation and highlights how little concern for their audience they really have. Don't expect much from MC going forward eveyone – I certainly don't. quote> BAM!!! Great post, brutally honest, right on target, well said.

Originally posted by: rhenry You play solo until your frustrated with your limitations and then you give up and buy your online membership. quote> No, you absolutely do not do that. You go to your window, you open it up, stick your head out, and yell, as loud as you can, 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!' And then you keep yelling it. 'I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!'

Originally posted by: sparky66 what happens when the next big game comes along, and the PO subscribers stop paying?quote> Worse, what happens if they never start paying to begin with?

Originally posted by: Androv I think it's to try and get more people into the Planet Offer.quote> I don't "think", I'm 99% certain they gimped single player to do that. I have the French version of the manual. There is quite a big section on Madalff, going on and on about how he's a heartless bastard whose great joy is driving cities bankrupt. At this point, I'd call single player a demo of the 'real' game, which costs a monthly fee. You can get your cities to a certain size in single player, but if you want them bigger, cough up the cash.

Excellent critique. It mirrors my impressions of the game, including "it is still possible to have fun with the game to a point". I'm guessing that trade in single player was "balanced" (and I use that term very loosely) to push people to subscribe to the Planet Offer. Note that even OmniCorp has better prices once you're online, compared to single player. And speaking of cynical, note that OmniCorp's president is named Don Madalff. That last name ring a bell? How about Bernie Madoff, currently serving 150 years in prison for bilking investors out of millions of dollars via an illegal ponzi scheme? And here, we have a scheme to milk thousands of tiny investors for monthly fees so players can trade for reasonable prices and use public transport. It's either some sort of sick joke, or a huge middle finger aimed at anyone who buys the game. Or maybe the name was suggested by the investors behind the game, as some sort of cynical inside joke.

"After the initial activation, the game has a timer function that counts how many days passed since the latest on-line verifiation. After a couple of months playing disconnected, the game can refuse to start and require a mandatory on-line verification to get more updates (that you may never benefit from) and resume your solo-play..." niloluiz, this is so shocking, I'm having a hard time believing it. It just doesn't seem right. (on topic) You know what's funny. If I felt like I had bought a complete game to begin with, I probably would have bought some European roads and different buildings as DLC. But with no buses or light rail, I feel like I bought 82% of a game. And knowing I will never be able to get those features unless I cough up a monthly fee makes me so mad, I will never buy any DLC, ever. Just out of spite.

I hereby suggest that if you feel that paying $6/month for the possibility of having mass transit at some point in the future is, to put it mildly, a total ripoff; If you think that being obliged to continue paying every month for basic content that should have been in the game to begin with, and to lose that content if you should decide to stop paying, is outrageous; If you think that this marketing ploy is a cynical, shocking, money-grubbing act which takes advantage of a near monopoly on the genre, and loyal fans desperate for new content; Then I simply suggest that you do not subscribe to the Planet Offer. This whole ploy is all about money anyway. OK then, I'll make it about money too. Signed. ---------------------- BTW, RegisteringSucks, I have totally stolen your sig, and I encourage anyone else who signs to do the same.

Ah, that's funny. I wrote a reply to bluetooth, and the forum ate my post. Interesting. Let's see if this one works. Ah, must have been a blip. Ignore.

Originally posted by: bluetooth Originally posted by: deanco The middle mouse wheel rotate is way too sensitive. The slightest motion sends it spinning uncontrollably. Nobody in beta commented on this? If somebody finds an .ini with this setting, please let me know. quote> I might be able to help you with that. I had the same problem in another game, the only thing I had to do was to uninstall my Logitech mouse/keyboard software. After that all worked fine.

Originally posted by: Abart Since deanco wrote in his first post that it appeared you need an internet connection to play the game. quote> I was wrong about one thing in that post, I'd like to correct the error. Yes, you must be online at least once to create an account, otherwise you can't play. Not a big deal. But the game will launch if you don't have an internet connection. The launcher tries to connect, if it can't, the option to play single player is presented.

Originally posted by: Inge Jones My comment is just that I think public transport is basic to a city simulation, not to be considered an add-on. No one who is thinking straight can think of public transport as an later optional addon to a city building game.quote> This. Yes, I know I'm new here, but perhaps my outlook could be useful. A few posts above, someone was getting excited about the fact that, perhaps, the developer will, some day, provide public transportation in its city builder game as a paid addon. This makes my head explode. I can compare it to a Civilization game where the developer would, perhaps, at some indeterminant time in the future, might provide a Diplomacy option as a downloable addon for $5 or $10. Not having diplomacy is not a game breaker, you can still play, but one would wonder why this feature was not present to begin with. Now imagine if instead of a paid addon, Diplomacy would cost $5 per month and you had to be online to use it? This is the present state of things. People, get a grip. You're getting shafted.

Originally posted by: Centaur I'm making around 10,000 per turn by trading surplus to the AI. Sure, you don't get a good price, and maybe a few different AIs would make it better, but it seems to work fine for me. quote> I imagine trading TO the AI works, but for me, the option to do that usually isn't there. No green check mark. If you need something FROM the AI, good luck. Once again, no green check marks to click on most of the time. I have to literally look every few turns to see if Mr. OmniCorp has changed his mind. Usually, he hasn't. Very frustrating, not to mention poor gameplay.

Originally posted by: knightrider Originally posted by: deanco Nobody in beta commented on this? quote> Every issue you have, plus all the issues that can be found in other threads, were brought up in the beta, ad nauseam. quote> This. This speaks volumes.

After playing some more, I think the real slap in the face is the AI trading, not the missing buses and trains, although that's a cynical move in itself. The AI gimps the game way more, since he basically won't trade with you, and when he does, say goodbye to your positive cash flow. It's like they purposely made a crappy feature, to push you to online.

Originally posted by: mmmfloorpie One of my questions is, do the buildings build themselves? In all true Sim City games, there is the RCI indicator and buildings build randomly. In some of the trailers, all of the buildings just pop out of the ground at once. Is there no "construction" phase? Are the buildings placed there by the player? Please fill me in.quote> I'll answer anyway... Yes, the buildings pop up, like Sim City zoning. What's more, they never evolve. If it's Unqualified Low Density, it will stay that way, the buildings never get 'nicer'. What's worse, they never devolve into slums either. For buildings that are in trouble, instead of slums, it appears you get a black soot texture over the basic building, and of course you have an icon over it, saying it's not growing or whatever. The icon, while nice that it indicates there's a problem, sort of breaks immersion, as it's really the only thing that mars the bird's eye view from looking like a real city from afar.

Yes, you do see that, but the effect is not ugly. An effort was made to randomize it, and it works. You don't see, for example, 6 houses in a block that have the same design, they mix it up.

It's not a review of the game, as I said in the title. Brandon, I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. If you're talking about graphical gliches, I haven't seen any. Laying out zones, even irregular ones, seems to work OK.

The gimping goes even further. In education, for example, there is the elementary school, the high school, and the university, according to the website. In my game, I only see 2 of the 3, university isn't there. I have a free week of the online thing, I'm gonna login, start making a city, and play spot the difference.