Cyrilix

By small, I'm thinking of 2x4 (for instance, for a 4-lane rail switch. Its main function wouldn't be as a terminal where passengers get on and get off, but rather as a switch, to redirect any of 4 incoming rails to any of 4 outgoing rails. I have a few options: - Use a 4-in/4-out station like the Baron Cross Station (STEX). While a very good and useful station, it's too large to act as a flexible switch for massively scalable rail systems. - Cross 4 rails in a zig zag shape. This is very messy and prone to overlap, causing traffic imbalance by a factor of up to 4x the average traffic. Case in point, due to lack of proper design in my current bus-based city (and I mean a bus in the distributed systems sense, not a passenger bus), I've opted to instead attempt a dedicated circuit-based design. - Use 5 of 2-in/2-out stations in an X shape (5 mini switches to emulate a single 4/4 switch). - Hope that someone on this forum has found a lot that I haven't yet seen, that does what I want (or has made one for themselves) in an attempt to simulate an EXTREMELY distributed transit network.

I've got this city layout that is "no cars allowed", ie. residential and commercial/industrial districts are segregated, so sims commute almost 100% to work via commuter rail. The problem I get in some commercial or industrial districts, is that even if the demand is positive, the buildings are not filled. I mean, theoretically, you'd think that if demand is positive, and businesses are hiring, the people will go to those businesses, right? In fact, that's not what happens. In order to grow, I have to lay down more commercial or industrial, which will be developed, often to the same level (only 1/2 to 2/3 full). I noticed that some of the lower tier buildings like CS-$$ don't suffer, but this is especially bad with CO-$$$ and I-HT. Does anyone know why this is?

Just an update to my city. It has about 200,000 people in a region that including it, has about 320,000 people. It's more or less fully saturating the transit network that I had in mind, which is good (also means that my current design is good for up to 200-250K), and subways still aren't being used all that much. Instead, the sims are much preferring my monorail (that goes all the way around the back). This is understandable, since the subway is only half the speed of the monorail. Unfortunately, it means that the traffic is sometimes being routed to places I don't want it to rout to. In my next city design, I'll be sure to take this into account. There's also the problem with overcrowded streets/roads (which don't connect anything except for citizens to their mass transit networks -- remember that this is a roadless design). One big problem I have had and am still having is rich people. The desirability in my city is way too high, so as soon as the RCI-o-meter goes above 0 for R-$$$, I get like 6 long buildings which start at the same time. What ends up happening is that they all finish, no one can find a job, or aren't willing to commute, and they all leave, causing a massive education drop as I raze those buildings to the ground and stupid newcomers move in. I have to extremely carefully balance my taxes to kick these rich people out. Currently, my taxes are at 11.3% for rich people, and they were as high as 12.0%. If I do 11.2%, they invade and raze the city to the ground. It's quite unfortunate that the job simulator is so unsophisticated as to allow this to happen (everyone comes and leaves effect). Anyhow, I'm working on the next version of my design. My cities are all grid cities, but have touches of creativity / diagonals here and there. They are meant to be technically perfect in every way as to provide maximum service coverage and minimum pollution, and maximum desirability, etc. I actually mod the rail and monorail stations for higher capacities, and scale the costs so that a 40000 capacity 2x10 monorail hub costs something to the effect of $500/month, while the smaller 16000 capacity 1x3 stations cost something like $125/month (I have a formula to balance all of this). What I've learned throughout my many experimental city trials: - Monorails are good, but very expensive to keep. They generally ensure that most of my C/I are well-populated. They are also less flexible than rails (not nearly as many monorail stations on STEX as railway stations). - The circular design (R/C/I wrapping around ~10x10 or so spaces) is a very good design that allows flexible expansion of reward buildings and parks. They also mean that traffic can be redirected both left and right optimally for a 2-rail transit hub. The competing design would be the strip design (a long rectangular strip with stations placed along the way). - Kick those rich hobos out of your city. They never did it any good. =) - Make sure that your city is dense, but not so dense that pedestrian and mass transit traffic gets overcrowded at key locations. - Don't tax R$ sims more than the regular amount. They will come and go, and eventually pave the way to a majority of R$$ sims (the best kind). - Always keep a watch on the funding of your education services. Those losers strike fast and hard.

Seriously, guys. I think Simcity is great for the system. The game mechanics. That's where it shines. If you want beautiful, you might as well just run Cities XL, since it has an extremely terrible and weak system, but the game is designed to be pretty.

Thanks a bunch, z1. That was sufficient, and I didn't even have to replop. Though some of my sims are still (seemingly) taking the long way around, several thousand have already moved onto the subway line so I'll have to investigate this further.

OK, I see what you mean SC4BOY. Though, regardless of how you interpret XXX/YYY (my way or your way), it ends up being the same thing. The fact is, XXX is smaller than I'd like it to be. I actually noticed a problem with my transit system. I'm using a monorail/bus/subway combo station that has the following transit transfer properties (in Ilives reader): Outside-to-Inside,All Sides,Walk,Walk, Inside-to-Outside,All Sides,Walk,Walk, Outside-to-Inside,All Sides,Ride Bus,Walk, Inside-to-Outside,All Sides,Walk,Ride Bus, Outside-to-Inside,All Sides,Walk,Ride Subway, Inside-to-Outside,All Sides,Ride Subway,Walk, Outside-to-Inside,West+East,Ride Monorail,Ride Monorail, Inside-to-Outside,West+East,Ride Monorail,Ride Monorail, Outside-to-Inside,All Sides,Walk,Ride Monorail, Inside-to-Outside,All Sides,Ride Monorail,Walk What I can't seem to get to work is Monorail -> Subway and Subway -> Monorail. As a result, my subways are empty and paths that my Sims should be able to take are not usable, causing them to route all the way around from other places. Does anyone know what are quad-integers that I have to add to make Monorail -> Subway and Subway -> Monorail happen? I believe it would involve 0x06 (subway) and 0x08 (monorail) but not exactly sure what the first two integers of each quad would be.

Originally posted by: Strategist01 Rich sims LOVE subways and monorail. Probably because it's so fast and "high-tech". Also, are you referring to the building occupancy when you click the query button on it? If so, you may not be getting the full picture. You see, a low wealth building will only employ low wealth sims. A medium wealth building will employ to a greater extent medium welath sims, and to a lesser extent low wealth sims. A High wealth building will employ High wealth sims to a greater extent, then medium in lesser numbers and low in even less numbers. I hope that would solve your question? Also, a high wealth building will accept medium wealth citizens as high wealth if they have enough EQ, about 160 AFAIK.quote> Well, the EQ of my sims is hovering between 180-200, since I've let it run for a long time to see the pattern. That said, subways and monorails are what I'm aiming for, so hopefully all types of sims will love it. Also, yes, I'm referring to the query tool. Sometimes it says, for a 112 occupant CO-$$$, 61/112. Then, I think what's going on? There are 50 more jobs there, CO-$$$ employs 25% rich, like 50% middle class, and 25% poor, yet I'm only getting 55% total occupancy.

Well, roads are out of the question, since I'm trying to do a roadless design. If I had to guess, it could be that rich people don't like taking commuter rail? Maybe this is making it so that they don't go to work, and simply stay at home, since I also have the problem where R-$$$ is in high demand, but everytime they come, a building gets abandoned due to the no job zot. I'm still trying to figure out a solution to this. From reading a guide, however, it says the following: "Another hint is about monorail. It is basically a mass transit way that rich Sims like to use. Honestly, I've tried to use it and it helps, but it is a risky investment and, still, an option, not a 'must have'."

The thing about Simcity is that there's a tendency to provide every type of service with perfect coverage everywhere with maximum funding. That will get you in the red really quickly. The key is both timing and figuring out what services you need to provide where, and how to efficiently distribute everything. Currently, I'm working on a complex rail project of my own, trying to figure out how to optimize pure rail traffic from residential to commercial/industrial centers, to other cities and back. It's can be a very difficult affair and I don't know how many pages of transit networks I've prototyped or drawn. But anyhow, the first thing to worry about is what I outlined above: services -- when and where.

Originally posted by: thefunktopus There is something called a dual track crossover, included with the NAM. It's basically and X shape where trains can cross. It is 1x4 or 4 and in the Railway FARR pieces menu.quote> Good to know, but won't the center of that X have double the traffic and therefore cause congestion? A station, on the other hand doesn't seem to cause congestion, because once you enter the station, the entire station is treated as a massive capacity single tile (so as long as the station can support the traffic of all tracks entering it, then there's no problem). An ideal structure might be something like 4x4, with 4 tracks going out in each direction.

I've read in the FAQs that an airport is a poor and expensive way to boost commercial demand cap, and plazas are far more recommended. I'd simply use it for beautification purposes.

This is a good FAQ, especially w.r.t. demand caps and RCI, among other things. It took me days to read and test the material presented in this guide: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/561176-simcity-4/faqs/21501 With a region population of 50K, though, unless you have been building absolutely no demand cap busters, that doesn't seem like it would be a big problem. I mean, a large plaza is +10K demand in itself. Regardless, check it out and see if there are any solutions or ideas to your problem.

Valuable information. Thanks, z1.

Essentially, this is my question. I'm considering various types of networks, from the most flexible to the least flexible. The most flexible networks are roads and GLR type networks, where you can make a 90 degree turn and keep going on the same line. The less flexible networks are rail and HSR networks, where you must do what I call a 1-block curve (ie., instead of a perfect 90 degree turn, you must allocate one tile to use as a diagonal. I haven't seen less flexible networks, however, you also have the option of curving less. ie. using wide angle puzzle pieces. Do these actually improve your traffic flow by slowing you down less or are they purely for cosmetic purposes?

Oh, well, that's interesting. Thanks. I guess with this, I'm free to build my network any way I want without harmful side effects.

Really? So you're saying that going uphill on a 20 degree slope has no effect? Hmm.... I could've sworn that at least the default Maxis simulator cared about this.

You don't have to zone at all for a certain size. Even if you have 3 of 1x3 side by side, quite often, a 3x3 ends up monopolizing the entire space, usually if they are the same wealth level. I think you just need the demand.

Grid city, eh? I like it. There's something truly beautiful with a superbly crafted grid. It feels like a marvelous feat of engineering, to have the perfectly optimized grid such that transit systems are at full capacity everywhere without overloading any single part. Usually, what happens is that I build a highly-dense fully planned (and sometimes it takes me hours of prototyping and design). Then, transit systems break down after a certain population, and I start over again, taking into account the problems that I have to overcome for even greater density. Anyhow, mayor's house has one of the most significant effects on desirability. I think the statues and some select buildings are also good too. Houses of worship are great for residential desirability. Cemeteries, on the other hand, provide a little boost, but take up a lot of space, so I would classify them as unnecessary, but OK, if you have the room. Also, I think degraded buildings are OK, as sometimes they will un-degrade themselves if the demand is there. I read somewhere that they are simply less efficient though.

Before I go on a rampage and build a whole elevated rail / GLR network (with NAM) for the city center, I'm curious to know if GLR supports both passenger AND freight trains. My intention is to mix both high-tech industry and commercial and residential together (sonewhat), and it would be great if the GLR makes industry freight time short. Thanks.

Originally posted by: rainyday ...No, it's just retextured monorail.quote> Well, you're right. To me, the difference is: + improved aesthetic appeal for straight tracks - incompatible (visually) with existing monorail stations + compatible with some modern looking HSR stations - texture cracks when making certain curves that would be seamless with a monorail

Blue Lightning, where do you get the Simulator Z speeds from? Also, would you mind giving us the rail speeds as well? (GLR, HSR, regular rail, subway)? Thanks.

Originally posted by: rainyday Originally posted by: Cyrilix - All HSR (probably more expensive, no double decker pieces, has freight trains) quote> FYI: HSR doesn't carry freight; it is just retextured monorail quote> OK, thanks. So HSR is basically GLR but faster and less flexible, and no double decker tiles. That clears things up and seems to make GLR more attractive.

Alright, thanks. Do you guys have any suggestions on what I should do to keep freight transport fast? The way I see it, I could either go: - All light rail (probably cheaper, can use double decker tiles to put light rail over roads, each light rail hop/stop is probably also faster, no freight trains). This elevated rail and GLR networks. - All standard / medium rail (easy transition to any other type of rail, no double decker pieces, need to get a bunch of other standardized high capacity stations, has freight trains). - All HSR (probably more expensive, no double decker pieces, has freight trains) My intention is to use streets almost everywhere except for roads in a select few places (low speed, low noise pollution), promote the vast use of public transit and walking.

Originally posted by: soltangris Hihihi, knightrider, I guess I'm earning reputation as the 'stupid and obstinate defender' just as you are earning yours 'negative and angry'... But let's see: - Roads can't be upgraded. True, this sucks big time, I hate it too. But so many people complained about it that it might be that MC will do something about it. Anyway, in real world it's difficult to enlarge roads too, in downtown areas it usually means destruction of stuff nearby. Not that I'd like this to happen in the game, don't get me worng. - Lack of variety in 'free' zones. True, all we have now is a bunch of lots that 'fit' into the zone. However, don't forget that all this is due to the fact that we only have one size of square lots for now , it's highly probable that in the full game we'll have more sizes, and the engine would try to place different- sized lots so as to better fit the zone we've drawn. Also, I hope (nobody seems to believe it, but yes, I AM the crazy optimist), so I hope that there WILL be irregular lots along with the square ones. They would fit along curves, while the other ones would fill in the rest. Won't this solve all the issues with non-grid based roads VS square zones? - I don't understand your issue with the parks: do you want to be able to build a green area in the woods? What's the problem if the park is bordered by roads? - Hotels and leisure. It's the same old discussion about plopable VS growable stuff, obviously you want your hotels and leisures to be growable, but MC decided to make them plopable. Which, by chance, gives you more controll over it. Again, I urge you to wait for the full game and see how everything fits together before delivering judgement. (by the way I agree with you here: they should be growable zones). Look, I'm not stupid and ignorant, nor have I been paid by MC, I'm just trying to find good points where everybody keeps searching for the bad ones. Of course I wouldn't want to pay for updating the game; I can't even conceive of a city-builder without mass transit; I realise right now the zones look superficious and boring.... There's a ton of stuff I don't like, but there also is tons of stuff that I like. I can see potential here; I can see that with some work the missing parts of the picture will be added. All I'm saying is: don't be so quick do deliver judgement and condemn a game that you haven't even tried! (the demo doesn't count) Would you say a girl is stupid and ugly and you never wanna meet her, when all you know about her comes from some stories from friends and seeing her picture?quote> Way to go with your failed analogies. Hint hint: If I brought a girl out to a date or two (the demo), I'd know whether or not I'm still interested. I don't have to marry her for 5 years to tell that she isn't my type. In my opinion, one of the biggest problems is that it goes on an MMO model. One person in this thread commented something to the effect of "do you complain when you pay your WOW monthly fee?" I don't play WOW, or any MMOs, or anything that requires a monthly fee. All I want is for Monte Cristo to deliver a city builder, with an SDK / designer toolkit so that you can develop additions and modifications to the game. Once they've done that, I don't want to see them again. I've paid them their money, and now it's up to the community to make the most of it to create WHAT PEOPLE WANT. That's right. Here's the difference between paying Monte Cristo and having an open toolkit. Monte Cristo charges money, and wants to make sure that they can continually charge money. They might make something that you like, if you pay them enough money, or they might totally drop the ball and not actually make what you want. The community cares about itself, and cares about what people in the community want. They don't exist to nickel and dime you. I hope that Cities XL becomes a business model failure, so that future companies, as well as Monte Cristo, decide not to push the monthly fee. Also, I hope that a business model failure forces them to change their business model to the traditional, well-liked model. At this point, however, I don't have much hope for this game, since I've played the demo, and they are missing so many details from a simulation standpoint (tax sliders and ordinances), detailed effects of civic buildings like schools, hospitals, police stations, etc., and that it essentially becomes a game for 10-year olds called "make the circle turn green". The demo also has plenty of bugs, from trades not working, and getting cancelled unexpectedly, to consistent crashing-to-desktop when building certain buildings (there was a commercial zone and a hotel that I was trying to place one after another that would crash my game over and over again until I decided to stop trying). Edited for masked swearing, against forum rules. --Liv CXL Forums Moderator

It seems to me like while people make railroad and subway and bus stations with higher capacities, you never reach the maximum of those capacities before you hit a bigger problem. Your subway lines start showing "red", meaning 300% overloaded! This is especially the case in contested regions with a lot of residential going to a single large commercial office. So, how do you get higher-capacity tracks? Also, I've done some testing with tracks running parallel to one another, but the load balancing is clearly not doing a good job of this, as one track may be under heavy capacity while the other track is barely touched.