The Boy

Heres an interesting story, explaining someone's perspectives, I don't know how in the world it got into the NY Times but here you go: Correction Appended BAGHDAD — After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach. In two months of interviews with 40 young people in five Iraqi cities, a pattern of disenchantment emerged, in which young Iraqis, both poor and middle class, blamed clerics for the violence and the restrictions that have narrowed their lives. “I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us,” said Sara, a high school student in Basra. “Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don’t deserve to be rulers.” Atheer, a 19-year-old from a poor, heavily Shiite neighborhood in southern Baghdad, said: “The religion men are liars. Young people don’t believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore.” The shift in Iraq runs counter to trends of rising religious practice among young people across much of the Middle East, where religion has replaced nationalism as a unifying ideology. While religious extremists are admired by a number of young people in other parts of the Arab world, Iraq offers a test case of what could happen when extremist theories are applied. Fingers caught in the act of smoking were broken. Long hair was cut and force-fed to its wearer. In that laboratory, disillusionment with Islamic leaders took hold. It is far from clear whether the shift means a wholesale turn away from religion. A tremendous piety still predominates in the private lives of young Iraqis, and religious leaders, despite the increased skepticism, still wield tremendous power. Measuring religious adherence, furthermore, is a tricky business in Iraq, where access to cities and towns far from Baghdad is limited. But a shift seems to be registering, at least anecdotally, in the choices some young Iraqis are making. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/world/middleeast/04youth.html?_r=4&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=sloginquote> More on the page, go ahead and see, theres also other stories relating to this.. might be interesting for some people to read about.

Sup guys? This guy, is talking about not respecting islam, take a few minutes, watch a couple of his videos, please understand where some people could be coming from. http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell ----- EDIT Watch this.

Originally posted by: Nerd_Guy The Boy: Actually, most of the states still say the pledge. We do in Illinois. We even have a 30 second monet of silence every morning for prayer or reflection on the day, and it's a public school lol! Anyway, this guy has the right to be an atheist and shouldn't be punished for it. I just guess the old saying about there not being any atheists in foxholes was wrong! quote> Hmm, thats something I didn't know, thanks.

Originally posted by: JanYpe Originally posted by: The Boy Sup guys? This guy, is talking about not respecting islam, take a few minutes, watch a couple of his videos, please understand where some people could be coming from. http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell ----- EDIT Watch this.quote> He kind of goes of on a little generalizing rant around 4:30 doesn't he. Then he starts up with the "I know I'll be accused of blahblahblah", which is such a weak way of trying to say he's right but that darned world just doesn't understand it. This guy is so full of himself. He doesn't have a real grip on the situation, he's just taking stale underbelly feelings for his own misuse. His nonsense is just as bad as the open armed welcome he despises, and the close minded bigotry he seems eager to be accused of. This kind of smug complacency will never lead to a reasonable solution.quote> Well, give me a solution, let me know, I'm just trying to express opinions here and I'd really like to know what you think should be done.. I also want to know, do you think he is right, but hes over doing it? Is he being too much of this or that?

Originally posted by: SkyTearer There are afew, if u read the Koran you would know that Islam is just as peaceful of a religion as Christianity or Judiasm. It's just some people take it to extremes, but the same is true for all religions just about. And if u know the situation, the entire terrorist agenda against the US and the West is politically oriented, not religiously, they just use it to gain supportquote> Hey, what is so peaceful about chopping someones head off with a knife? Is it just me or does that not have anything to do with peace?

Originally posted by: SkyTearer Sounds like some uneducated American preaching bollocks propaganda to me, only someone ignorant about Islam and the koran would believe thatquote> He lives in the UK in London, says it on his YouTube profile, so I guess hes a retarded English man.

Originally posted by: fukuda is my sarcasm-meter broken or this is an indecent video? "Large ghettos of muslims directed by bigoted leaders" "We need less respect for Islam in Europe" "Islamic sulture is not equal!! it encourages violence against women, it's inferior!"quote> You don't think islamofacists do that? Your sarcasm meter isn't broken. This guy is legit. edit

Originally posted by: sakarr the boy- that IS a violation of rights. and i dont even see how your post says anything that says it isnt... he has the right to beleive or not beleive in whatever he wants. they cant discriminate against him because he doesnt beleive in a god. id be mad as hell too if i were him. im an athiest too and i see how you religious people act to us. you cant get past your own garbage and open your eyes to see anything else beyond yourself. and fyi, you can say the pledge in public school. i say it every day. i just drop out saying "under god"quote> Public Schools in Florida don't say em' from what I understood, it was banned for the whole country.

Originally posted by: pursuit1 I'm former military, waterboarding is NOT torture. If we were fighting against "soldiers" torture would be another story. A true soldier does his best not to harm innocent people. These people go out of their way to kill innocent men, women and children. They use children and pregnant women as homicide bombers. These animals should not even be considered human beings let alone soldiers by any stretch of the imagination. They deserve no protections. They need to wiped off the face of the earth. They do not deserve to live in this world among us. If we have to torture them to get information that prevents an attack that is going to kill innocent people, then so be it. They deserve one thing from the decent people of the this world, a painful horrible death. End of storyquote> Thank you, by the way, I'm pretty sure its suicide and not homicide, I'm pretty sure, could be wrong. Thank you for this, I mean maybe they'll listen to you.

Originally posted by: fukuda You don't need to be a religious to command troops, you can (and you should) earn the trust of your soldiers by other means. This is an obvious violation of that soldier's rights and a blatant act of discrimination.quote> But its not, was my post COMPLETELY ignored? Did you not just see? Its not discrimination, its not a violation of rights.

Originally posted by: gatorhead92 Thats what ive been trying to tell everyone for years! That about sums most of the problems up with whats goin on over there, by the way great videosquote> I really like what hes got to say about Islam on stuff with that. Its really interesting and only the people who can put 2 + 2 together.

See, when I posted that link I actually had a feeling in my gut someone was gonna go to iraqbodycount.org http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/global.php?id=1382634 Please, lets debate this.

I'm sorry, please, give me facts, I want links too.

From what I understand, terrorists are the small part of the muslim race, muslims aren't bad at all. They're mostly just innocent people like us..

This was a discussion discussed (lol yeah I know) on another forum, it is a conservative forum, guess what I'm gonna justify the army on this one. I can't wait for me to be called racist and other things. Here are quotes from people who are in the army, or have a lot of expirence with stuff around this. The funny thing about having a meeting to discuss Atheism is that Atheism believes that nothing devine exists. If, for them, there is nothing to talk about religiously, what is the purpose of a meeting? To discuss what's wrong with other religions? Sounds like a hate group to me.quote> This quote is from an active duty Sgt in the Marines, who has served 2 tours of duty. The ACLU will be making an appearance ASAP. The Oath States: I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. quote> This quote is from an Air Force veteran, who I believe did a tour of duty in vietnam. He is represented by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. That was founded by Mikey Weinstein, a nutjob atheist who filed some very ridiculous lawsuits against the Air Force Academy when he attended there. They were all thrown out of court. http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=1148 This guy is on a par with the nutjob who filed the lawsuits over school prayer and having In God We Trust on our currency.quote> Keep in mind, YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY PLEDGES, pledges, which have the sentence "one nation, under GOD" thank GOD I go to a Christian school, t

Originally posted by: krbe Originally posted by: panthersimcity4 Like I said before, if we torture prisoners we're just as bad as Al Qaeda and everyone else who tortures. It's a harsh thing to say but it's true. It's actually revolting to think our government actually does this.quote> Why is one only willing to sacrifice freedom and values in order to protect freedom and values? If you're not willing to defend your freedom and values with your life, they're not particularly important for you.quote> Correct, what part of freedom isn't free can't people get.. I'm not trying to bash him, I'm just saying its not free it never has and it never will be free.

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4 Like I said before, if we torture prisoners we're just as bad as Al Qaeda and everyone else who tortures. It's a harsh thing to say but it's true. It's actually revolting to think our government actually does this.quote> We aren't as bad as Al-Qaeda, we haven't killed thousands upon thousands of completely innocent people, not even in Iraq have we, http://thereligionofpeace.com thats something that will Justify my post here, its not torture either.

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4 Originally posted by: nazaguy Well, today I went out, was stopped by the police twice. The only thing worse then being a ethnic minority is being young. Or being a young ethnic minority. Uh crap, thats me.quote> What were you stopped for? Just recently I heard here in Arizona some police stopped a Latino guy because they though he was an illegal immigrant... but he was a legal citizen! He filed a lawsuit. Also there were those two middle-eastern teens at the Seattle Ferry who were arrested for "taking pictures" About ghetto kids... by saying "ghetto" you mean they're from an "ethnic" neighborhood, right? That's pretty much what the definition of ghetto is... like Black ghettos in Los Angeles or the Jewish ghettos in Eastern Europe during WWII. quote> NO I DON'T. Please, everytime you single the word blacks out of ghetto, you make me sound like I'm a complete racist person, with only hate towards blacks. This not true, I respect them, just as much as white people. I have no problem with the ones who casually go around minding their own buisness, and don't drive all around with their boombox in the back at 1 AM waking me up. Thats who I'm mad at and who I'm talking about.. white people do it too.

Waterboarding isn't torture, even people who are in our military that have been water boarded didn't say it was torture. 3 people have been water boarded, with those three, one being a mastermind behind 9/11 it took him or someone else, 30 seconds to give up info, it was reliable, and I do believe they acted on it. I'm not against putting water up peoples noses who want to cut our heads off with a pocket knife, then show the world. But. I know it does have other effects such as if we go into another war, who are we to tell them, you can't torture our prisoners (I'm saying another war such as when Iraq and the middle east thing is over)... I'm fine though with terrorists who kill thousands of innocent people or who plan/will do it... but as I said another war, well that'd be kinda bad on our part.

Geese, give me a break, this judge needs to be fired or somethin.' Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine. But last fall, a Los Angeles Superior Court commissioner dashed the foster teen's hopes of early enlistment for Marine sniper duty, plus a potential $10,000 signing bonus. In denying the Royal High School student delayed entry into the Marine Corps, Children's Court Commissioner Marilyn Mackel reportedly told Sage and a recruiter that she didn't approve of the Iraq war, didn't trust recruiters and didn't support the military. "The judge said she didn't support the Iraq war for any reason why we're over there," said Marine recruiter Sgt. Guillermo Medrano of the Simi Valley USMC recruiting office. "She just said all recruiters were the same - that they `all tap dance and tell me what I want to hear.' She said she didn't want him to fight in it."quote> http://www.dailynews.com/ci_8482917?source=rss_viewed

Originally posted by: krbe Originally posted by: Voar Tok Clearly you've never set off the metal detector. quote> Or been behind someone who doesquote> Oh man, I'm sure that must be a huge pain. I do feel sorry for people stuck like that.

Originally posted by: Simfan34 What! Recent events have led me to believe that even people don't even feel inclined to "support our troops"! quote> I support them 100% in all that they're doing not the bad things but I support them all with what they're doing over seas, not the killing of innocent people on accident or purpose but I support them.... theres a few bad apples in every single thing.. if you read all of those posts, or a decent majority, you'd see that it wasn't in Iraq, it was at a base in Hawaii.

Originally posted by: rugar12 Originally posted by: The Boy Wow you guys are wayyyyyyy overly politcally correct, at least with my post. I hate the ghetto kids in my area, all they do is curse, think they a blood or crip, do minor graffiti on bus stops/buses, drive around in their cars with these overly sized wheels, and they've got the base in the back of their car turned up really loud, all you hear is THUD, THUD THUD THUD, thats it. They're all stereo type ghetto people, I'm not just talking about blacks, like you politically correct people think I am, because the first thing that comes to your mind when I say ghetto or ghetto people is blacks. I'm talking about anyone who has a car that goes thud thud thud thud thud, anyone who wears clothes that are spray painted with gang pictures or signs, that stuff. Geese, you guys really need to calm it down. Oh and for the bat thing, lighten the hell up, I'm not gonna go around actually hitting people with a bat, if it were legal I might, but that wouldn't really do me any good now would it? Oh how the heck did you get to the point where I want to hit people who are a certain ethnic/race? Give me a break!quote> I never get why people hate other people based mainly on trivial issues. I find that most people are decent people, no matter what stereotype they may fall into. But that may just be me, I don't form opinions on people until I get to know them. And the bat thing... I knew you probably weren't serious about it, but it doesn't reflect positively on you.quote> Okay, well I'll try to be nicer to the people who race, do burn outs at the stop sign in front of my house, and constantly drive up and down the street and all I hear is THUD THUD THUD THUD THUD not to mention, windows shake in my house, yeah. I'm not gonna be nice to them, I don't care if their black/white whatever. The opinion I form is, oh another stereotype idiot, who drives up and down my street (I know I don't own it) with their boom box, and drives really fast when we've got kids from ages 4 to 15 or so that play in the street... they wake me up too. I'm not being nice to them, I don't care if you guys are quick to judge me with the bat thing, then thats pretty hypocritical ok? The people that are the ghetto stereotypes near me, aren't decent people (not to say there could be 1 or 2 decent ones) but it could be different in other areas, I know that.

Okay, well I haven't been to an airport in a while, I do realize having a few metal things can be hectic or give you JUST LET ME GO NOW I WILL DO ANYTHING, WANT MONEY HERE TAKE IT thoughts and stuff, but I'm glad they're there in case worse comes to worse

Wow you guys are wayyyyyyy overly politcally correct, at least with my post. I hate the ghetto kids in my area, all they do is curse, think they a blood or crip, do minor graffiti on bus stops/buses, drive around in their cars with these overly sized wheels, and they've got the base in the back of their car turned up really loud, all you hear is THUD, THUD THUD THUD, thats it. They're all stereo type ghetto people, I'm not just talking about blacks, like you politically correct people think I am, because the first thing that comes to your mind when I say ghetto or ghetto people is blacks. I'm talking about anyone who has a car that goes thud thud thud thud thud, anyone who wears clothes that are spray painted with gang pictures or signs, that stuff. Geese, you guys really need to calm it down. Oh and for the bat thing, lighten the hell up, I'm not gonna go around actually hitting people with a bat, if it were legal I might, but that wouldn't really do me any good now would it? Oh how the heck did you get to the point where I want to hit people who are a certain ethnic/race? Give me a break!