cjmarshall

Date: 8/19/2005 10:05:12 PM Author: ardecila The 14th rep are adjacent tile verifiers. You can require a particular connection type to exhibit itself on the adjacent side of the adjacent TILE. It doesn't really matter for straight tiles, but once you get into really complex connection types, they become quite useful.quote> Ardecila, Is this documented anywhere? If not would you mind explaining in a bit more detail as I (and by the looks of things others) would be interested to know how this actually works. This might also be something that Simrolle would be interested in adding to his new Transit Enabling editor.

Date: 8/17/2005 10:17:59 PM Author: the7trumpets ... (Assumed) Transit lots cannot be inline directly next to each other. This is actually not entirely true. A few moths ago someone (smoncrie? can't remember now) posted a post in the R&D forum describing how create transit lots which could be plopped end to end. It basically has to do with how you code the RUL code lotconfig lines in the transit lot lot exemplar. So what does this all mean? The best idea I could offer is to make transit enabled lots for straight and diagonal versions of each network and code the RUL lines in the lotconfig properties so they can be plopped adjacent to each other. I suppose it would also require a start/end peice for each orthagonal and diagonal network you want. As you can see, the required number of textures/lots quickly baloons, but it seems like it would be feasible to tackle. ... quote> As far as I understand things there is a problem with this idea. I played with adjacent transit enabled lots last year when I was working on modifying the Marrast underpasses. I was able to set up the rep 15 value so that the lots could be plopped next to each other and by using custom SC4Path files was able to get the automata to pass from one to the other. Unfortunately no matter what I did I couldn't get the pathfinding engine to recognize that there was a valid route between the two lots and so no actual traffic could flow . It is my belief that this limitation of not considering transit routes between two lots is also what causes the problems with residential buildings with transit enabled lots in front of them as well. As I understand it then, a purely lot-based approach to this would have to be eye-candy only. What does work though is placing lots set up like this next to NAM puzzle pieces as the pathfinding engine is capable of finding a route from a lot onto a puzzle piece. This is how many of the GLR stations are set up. A hybrid approach (i.e puzzle pieces for the main bus lane sections and lots for the start/end, bus-stops etc) would therefore be worth considering.

I've been making some changes to the Road Top Mass Transit Mod, initially for my own use, but I reckon that they're worth sharing. Changes are : - Visible stairs for subway stops (using a modified version of Ralphelninja's SmallSubwayStairs model). - Stops on one way roads now usable (see readme) [NOTE : Only tested on UK version] - Increased monthly costs to levels more consistent with the rest of the game (

Date: 6/16/2005 4:52:56 PM Author: Pheonix Rising whats the latest release and where can it be found??quote> I think my version is still the most recent. You can download it from the link in the first page of this thread. Cogeo is working on a new version but it isn't done yet. Keep an eye on his thread for progress.

Date: 5/18/2005 11:42:26 PM Author: Tyeguy So this mod fixes the issue of people not being able to leave avenue subway stations? Because I have some weird commute paths, where people take the subway and get off at the nearest road or street subway station, then take the bus to their destination (located on an avenue) even though there is an avenue subway/bus station right next to their destination. This fixes something like that? quote> I've just dug had a dig through the files for this and I definitely made some changes to the Avenue Bus/Subway stop to fix a problem of sims being unable to get off the subway, so my version should not have this problem.

Pansarkatt, To be honest I still have very little idea of what the problem is. Looking through your list of Mods the only ones that I can imagine affecting this are the Network Addon Modd and Big Red Fish's mod 'BRF_TunnelAndSlopeMod-b.dat'. Since you've already tried removing the NAM (and I use it here without having this problem) it doesn't look like it's the problem. All I can suggest is that you try removing the tunnel and slope mod and see if it helps. If it isn't this then I really don't know. Maybe someone else has some ideas. Just a final note about the diagonal stops. These are a work in progress that was never finished, so I'd advise beginners to stay well clear and warn anyone else that they are on their own if they try to use them for now. I'll try and get back to these sometime.

Date: 11/19/2004 4:30:40 AM Author: pansarkatt Date: 10/31/2004 6:35:59 AM Author: pansarkatt ... subway stops can't be placed on top of roads. The text says that this is the way to do it, so I guess it's a bug. What do you think? quote> How about my earlier question, see above? Is anyone else having this problem or is it just me? (By the way, the subway stops can't be place on top of avenues either. Both roads and avenues have to be deleted first, and then the stops can be placed in the gap.) quote> Plopping subway stops on top of existing roads and avenues seems to work fine for me so I'm a little mystified as to what the problem is you're having. Can you describe things in a bit more detail (with screenshots if possible)? Information that is likely to be relevant includes : - What exactly happens when you try to plop the subway stops (turn red or just not plop) - Whether this happens with the bus and combo stops as well or just the subway ones. - Whether this happens with the subway stops for streets and one-ways - What other mods you have installed Sorry I can't be more help. Maybe a bit more detail will give me or someone else an idea.

Date: 11/2/2004 10:33:56 AM Author: Marc Collins Yes, I am using Traffic Cop to alter the whole commute speed thing. The problems with my existing RTMT may very well be related to that. ... People have been discussing a factor being changed for those using the commute speed changes....can there be two versions of this mod--one for stock and one for modified commute speeds/times?quote> I plan to add this as an extra but not until I'm sure the building exemplars are in their final state, as I don't want to duplicate them and then have to go through and modify two sets because I've found a mistake. I would not be able to give up the pathfinding mod improvements at this point! I am a realism freak and that mod has transformed the game (along with the original RTMT). Every capacity change mod I have worked with requires demolishing all pre-existing facilities...I can't imagine this would be any different.quote> Can I suggest that you try out the traffic plugins included in the NAM. One of the things Tropod has been able to do here (which you can't do with Traffic Cop) is to alter the Maximum commute time allowed (and to alter the graph to compensate). This gives much the same benefits as using modified speeds without the distorting effects on Mass Transit usage (which affect the in-game Stops/Stations and Tollbooths as well as RTMT). The best one to look at is probably the 'NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_PerfectPathfinding_HighCapacity_10xCommute.dat' file as this is the one that upgrades everything except the actual traffic speeds. If you really need to have the capacities and pathfinding heuristic exactly as they currently are, then you can probably tweak this file with Traffic Cop (though I wouldn't know how to do this since I've never used Traffic Cop). Stops on diagonals is FANTASTIC!!! That was the number 1 problem with the existing RTMT mod.quote> I really must get around to finishing these... The other major issue for me is the traffic passing through the stops being counted towards the stop's capacity ...quote> I'm pretty sure there's nothing I can do about this. the7trumpets did say he'd look into it, but I assume he didn't find anything. ... AND, presumably, also counting as revenue for your city's mass transit (??).quote> It has always been my understanding that Mass Transit Fares are calculated based on total journey length of all journeys for the MT transit types (Train, Sub/El rail, Bus, Monorail) rather than on the number of sims passing through stops/stations, so I don't think you need to worry about this. If anybody knows otherwise please comment. It seems that mass transit more than pays for itself so easily with the RTMT mod. I think that's because every pedestrian and car that passes over the station/stop is buying a ticket and contributing to the city's coffers? Am I right? Can this be fixed!?!?!?!quote> A well-used Mass Transit system based on Buses or Trains is a very good way of generating income even without RTMT. I have one city whose layout is heavily based on 'boulevards' consisting of 2 one way roads with a one tile gap between them and bus stops in the gap every 6-10 tiles. The bus system is heavily used and covers its costs by about a factor of 5. I suspect that the fact that RTMT makes building extensive bus networks much easier means that you have been able to build much bigger networks than before which has made their profitability much more obvious. Again if anybody has any evidence that clearly demonstrates through car, truck or pedestrian traffic affecting Mass Transit fares then I'd

Date: 10/13/2004 3:07:29 PM Author: sas205 Thanks cjmarshall for the clarification. Things are fine now and the stops work great. Just a couple of things I recently encountered as well. If I have an Avenue intersection (2 Avenues or Avenue-Street) and attempted to place a stop over an Avenue stretching from that intersection, I noted that the stop will ALWAYS DELETE sections of the Avenue (3 to 7 tiles) if the stop is placed one tile away from the intersection. So, I have to lay the Avenue once again after the placement! Bit you could realise how costly this would be aside from being tedious... Placing the stop just after the intersection works fine. Only if placed one tile from it!! Why is this happening and how can I overcome it? Another thing. When I'm inside Zone overlay screen I can see the stops while I'm placing them. But if I exit the screen and enter it again, the stops don't show, but their places appear as empty breaks in streets/avenues. Is this familiar? Cheers, Saedquote> I don't think there's anything I can do about the issues you've raised I'm afraid. In the zone overlay all lots (growable and plopped civic) are hidden including the road top stops. As far as I know no-one has found any way to change this and I suspect it's controlled in the exe. The way the game handles a transit enabled lot plopped on to an Avenue is not something that I can control in the lot itself. It might be possible to change something in one of the RUL files to fix this, but even if it is it's beyond my ability. You could try asking the people working on the NAM if there is anything they can change to allow transit enabled lots to be placed right next to avenue junctions. Sorry I can't be of more help

@DragonFire1380 Thalassicus's comments got me thinking again about your problem of the Sims getting off then on the subway at each stop. I think it's probably happening because you modified the switching costs to 0. As a result of this it takes no time for the sims to get off, cross the tile on foot then get back on again, which is quicker than travelling under the stop on the subway (which will incurr as small time cost). @Thalassicus This is only the case if the lot has no other network acess on any of the four sides. If the lot is on a corner, or with another network behind it, the sims can/will use the other network. So to prevent this problem, I just place my stops next to intersections or in front of lots that span multiple tiles. This is also more efficient, as sims entering the intersection from any directions can easily access the stop.quote> That's interesting. I'll have to give that a try. You might consider adding one extra file that reduces the switch costs for all the stops x10, as most of the traffic mods increase transit speeds x10. I did this through the reader, but it would make it easier for people who don't know/want to use itquote> I presume you've divided all the switch costs by 10. I wondered whether doing this would work. Thanks for confirming it. I'll add this as an extra once I'm sure the building exemplars are in their final state, as I don't want to duplicate them and then have to go through and modify two sets because I've found a mistake @sas205 In the ReadMe file you mentioned about the NRZ occurrence when placing a stop in front of a 1xY Res. lot. But nothing was said about this annoying zot when placing a stop over an Avenue in front of a 2xY Res. lot, probably because the Avenue stop occupies a 2x2 slot not 1x1 as street/road stops. I see this another restriction to the Mod. Haven't seen a mention to it anywhere, so here it is reported.quote> This is a general problem, that sims must exit from their houses onto a proper network tile, not a transit-enabled lot, which is what the stops are. The best I can suggest with 2xY residences on avenues is to stagger the stop so it partially overlaps the fronts of two different buildings. As long as a 2xY building has access to at least one proper road tile it should not display NRZ. Also, when I started placing stops on most streets/avenues things appeared to improve in term of city development, but as I completed placing stops over every street/avenue, many Res. buildings showed the NJZ!!! Is it me or is it something to do with the Mod?quote> I'm not sure what is causing this, though I'd suspect that you're using modified traffic speeds (i.e the Speed x10 mods included with either the transit supermod or the NAM). For the moment, the Road Top Mass Transit stops do not work properly with increased speeds, though this can (and will eventually) be fixed. (see my response to Thalassicus) One more thing: would the direction of the stop make any difference? (e.g. left vs right or up vs down over the same cell)quote> All the stops need to be in line with the road, so that it can run through them (looks very silly otherwise as well as not working ). Also, with my version (the one for download in the first post of this thread) the one-way stops do have to be the right way round for UDI and vehicle automata to be able to use them. The only Mods I have installed are NAM and Equinox RCI QueryMod. The RoadTop MT I downloaded yesterday is the one currently available at Mods section which shows 2.1 as its version. BTW, being a Transit Mod by DarkMatter, does it have any conflicts with NAM?quote> None of these mods should clash. It'd be worth checking that you've followed the installation instructions for the NAM correctly though if you're still having problems. Finally a just a quick note to anyone who's been following the progress on the diagonal stops. This project hasn't been abandoned, and I'll post an update soon.

@berkthomas I just started using these lots yesterday and have noticed a bit of a problem. The Road stops seem to work fine, but the street stops that are in front of zoned houses block the residents of that house from getting to work. Any ideas.quote> A fundamental limitation of all transit enabled lots is that when placed in front of a 1 tile wide residential zone (on an orthogonal road - diagonals will be slightly different if we get them working) they cause a no-road zot. To the best of current knowledge there is no way round this. The readme ought to have a note about this though. Thanks for the reminder. @the7trumpets Nice work on the diagonal stops. I've given them a quick test and they seem to work. Doing textures was above and beyond the call of duty (and you seem to have had better luck getting things to line up than I did when I tried ). I believe the accepted gesture of appreciation on Simtropolis is the bunny. One thing that I may do before an official release, is try changing the texture instance ids. From what I've read on the lot making forums, texture clashes seem to be a big worry and a texture index has been set up to try and prevent this. Looking at it, no-one has attempted to reserve the 70 series ids that you used so we don't have to do anything, but since the Road Top Mass Transit mod is already blocking large junks of the id space round the 08 series it might be considerate to confine all our textures to that same area. Don't worry about this at the moment though, but don't delete those PSP files either. Thanks again, and I'll try to get the lot layout done for the diagonal avenue stops as soon as I can.

Well, Marrast replied to my email, but I'm afraid it's bad news. In his words : ... I'm glad that you find the way to make those underpasses work with UDI, but I have to grieve you - I don't have Gmax models of those underpasses now :\ ... quote> So, unless someone else steps in with some new models it doesn't look like this project is going any further.

Date: 9/20/2004 11:31:34 PM Author: boliqua2 I have tested some of the underpasses and they seem to work perfectly except for one thing. My sims are literally walking across my train tracks which shouldnt be. If that can be fixed and if marrast could try to remodel them with custom LODs and using the 'invalid base texture' trick. These will be full functioning lots and I would love to make them a part of my city. It would be greatly appreciated if it could be done. Adamquote> Oops . I thought I'd taken all the pedestrian paths out. Thanks for the bug report. I too would love to have fully functional versions of these in my cities, and I will continue to work towards this goal (though progress may be slow). Andreas Roth has already posted versions (without my pathing fixes) that sort out some of the issues related to menus/queries/etc. (see his post on https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=55210&pageNo=1#364718 ) which can be incorporated. The biggest hurdle is going to be getting hold of Marrast and getting him to either remodel the underpasses or make the GMAX models available, since he seems to be an infrequent visitor here these days. I'll try emailing him, but I suspect we may have to wait until he next logs on.

Date: 9/14/2004 5:47:05 PM Author: sargeantcm This stuff looks interesting now that we can get the UDI and civic stuff working for these. BTW, I downloaded what I thought was the latest version of the Marrast underpasses, but I don't seem to have the double-rail one pictured abover. Am I missing something? -Chrisquote> Zilfondel made the double-rail underpasses using Marrast's props. Thery're on the STEX.

Take a look at this : I believe I have managed to solve the UDI & Civic vehicles problem with these underpasses. If you want to know more about the technicalities see https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=55210&pageNo=1 in Modding-Research and Development. I have made a mod that replaces Marrast and Zilfondel's lot definitions with versions that when placed correctly will (on my setup at least) allow UDI and Civic vehicles (in fact all vehicle automata) through the underpasses. There are still the following issues : (taken from the readme) A. Plopping procedure Follow the following procedure when plopping in order to ensure that these lots work for UDI/Civic vehicles : 1. Plop the lot 2. For the upper network (rail or avenue) drag the network across the lot. 3. For the lower network (road or avenue) drag the network from each end up to the underpass tile (as far as the game will allow the drag to go). B. Avenue median props For the avenue underpasses dragging the networks over the lot will result in median props being placed by the game which ruin the visual effect. To remove these simply bulldoze the lot and follow the plopping procedure again. This time the median props should not appear C. Vehicles on the lower network disappear when below ground level (except for UDI) The way the underpass has been rendered, the cars become invisible whilst they are below ground level (except in UDI when they show in green). This could be fixed by re-rendering the model with custom LODs and using the 'invalid base texture' trick (See NDEX's subway to rail transition piece) but would require Marrast's GMAX model which I do not have. Since this is all fairly new stuff (AFAIK no-one has done this already) there may well be problems, but please give this a try and post whether it worked for you. I don't want to put this on the STEX until I've at least a few reports of it behaving reliably. The mod is attached or you can download it from http://website.lineone.net/~dscdm/Files/Underpasses/UnderpassUDIEnable120904.zip if you don't want to use Simtropolis's bandwidth. Enjoy Chris.

Date: 9/10/2004 3:25:40 PM AM Author: SteveeD Hi...nice little mod...thank you ...one little discovery I had tho was as follows replaced the old mod with this one...fired up the game and chose one of my existing cities to have a look...your model replaced the old one but with a slight visual bug...the stairs stick out over the road instead of being parallel...workaround was to destroy the existing subway/bus stop (which I use pretty well exclusively when laying out my transit) and re-plopping said stop....stairs are now parallel to road anyone else who has tried this mod come upon the same bug? seems Im gonna have a lot of work ahead to replace all the stops in my existing cities thanks Steve dunno yet if the same holds true for road top subway only stops... quote> Thanks for the report. Upgrading is going to be an issue whatever I do I suspect. The game seems to copy certain aspects of buildings when they are plopped and must store them in the save files. I've noticed this when changing capacities - you have to bulldoze and re-plop for the new capacities to take effect. Whilst I probably could do something about the orientation of the stairs when upgrading I'm not sure if it's the best thing to do. I've no idea what other information is being cached as well as the orientation of the stairs and the capacity, and as this could lead to a whole host of problems I'm inclined to leave the visual bug in to prompt people to bulldoze. There really ought to be a comment in the readme about this - I'll try and put one in the next version. Date: 9/11/2004 3:56:22 AM Author: a11eria i must say that these lots are very impressive looking. However from what i can tell due to the transit cost changes they dont seem ready for general use. Feel free to correct me if i am wrong. quote> If you're worried about the discussions of the 'Transit Switch Entry Cost' which resulted from DragonFire and MarcCollins's problems it should only be an issue if you're using modified traffic speeds. If you are then don't use this mod (or any previous Road Top Mass Transit versions - they all have this issue). If not then I would expect them to work ok for the most part (at least as well as the old ones anyway). Again I'll put a comment in the next readme about speed mods. With that all said, this is a beta version so make a backup of your cities before trying it (you should really do this with any new mod whatever is claimed about it). If you do decide to try these, please post how you get on. Finally a general comment to anyone reading this. Until stated otherwise, anything in this thread related to diagonal stops is work in progress and should not be used. Of course if you are a Modder, BATter, Texture Artist, or Lot Developer with time to spare feel free to download the various bits and contribute your improvements .

OK. I've attached the initial version of the lots for the diagonal road. The zip includes the rotated stairs prop.

Date: 9/9/2004 6:52:39 PM Author: DragonFire1380 Another interesting problem Iv found and its only a problem cause its adding to the commute times... quote> Good Find. There's a couple of possibilities here. First is that it is impossible for sims to pass straight through the stations. None of the subway stations (including the Maxis ones) have Transit Switch Point entries for subway pass-through. This may be a bug or it may have been done for good reason (I know some switch combinations are supposed not to work). The alternative is that the way the game works, subway pass-through happens automatically (despite the missing switch point entry) as long as there is a subway line all the way through, and that this is just a pathfinding problem. If you can get a single sim to pass through on the subway then it is most likely a pathfinding issue and one of the pathfinding mods may help. A workaround is to lay your subway alongside, rather than directly under the road (I tend to do this anyway so I can see traffic levels in the data view). If you feel like investigating this further, post what you find. Otherwise I'll take a look at it before I do a proper release of my version.

Date: 9/9/2004 11:41:21 AM Author: the7trumpets Hmmm... reading all this has got me thinking that there 'might' be a way to allow car, foot, and bus traffic 'through' the lot without counting it toward the capacity of the station. Remember the old subway station bug, where it counted all the traffic through the station as counting against the capacity, so you had to draw the subway tubes to the side of the station? Well, this is essentially a symilar problem. No promises, because I'm sure DarkMatter and Teirusu looked into all this a long time ago, but I might have a crack at it here in a bit. quote> I had no idea that there was even a chance this could be fixed, but if you can find a solution it'd be great. If you're in the mood for tackling seemingly unsolvable problems you could also see if there's any way to control the tiled square that is displayed when in the subway laying view. The reason is that it affects whether to use the subway stairs as a prop or as the building for multi-tile stops (i.e avenues and diagonals if we make them). Using a building is better as it means the hover route query displays the different types of traffic, but it causes the stairs to appear in the subway view. This works fine for single tile stops, but for multi-tile ones it often means that the stairs appear to be 'floating' separately from the tiled section, depending on how the lot has been placed in game (the tiled piece appears to always be the northmost one as far as I can tell). This is why I've used a prop for the stairs on the avenues. Date: 9/9/2004 11:41:21 AM Author: the7trumpets If it's the modding portion which scares you, maybe we can work together. I'm house sitting now, so I can't even open up the gmax model, because I don't have gmax, the BAT, or the Lot Editor installed. However, If you were to figure out how to rotate the model 45 degrees and create a prop from it, if you posted the prop, I'd be more than happy to turn it into diagonal versions. One reason I'm excited about the diagonal versions is that they will not suffer the same 'no road connection zot' issue. The reason is that every zone which borders a straight diagonal road actually borders two network tiles. The roadtop MT station would replace one of these, but the other would still be a road network tile. Like I said, if you get around to rotating the prop, I'd love to help out. I don't have the lot editor installed, so if you want to make the lots so they look symilar to the orthagonal ones, I can just attatch the FSH textures which you'll need to use for the diagonal lots. That way you can make the lots look like the existing orthagonal stations and I'll just turn that lot into a transit enabled station. Just let me know what you want to do, and I'll post whatever you need quote> The way I see it creating diagonal stops involves the following : 1. Creating an SC4Model file and probably a prop for the rotated subway stairs. 2. Sorting out what to do about props for the bus stops - the in game benches are all orthogonal, but would probably still look ok. Otherwise we have to obtain a prop or GMAX model from somewhere. 3. For each of the stops (6 if we make Bus, Subway, and Bus/Sub combo stops for Diagonal Road, and Diagonal Avenue, more if we want double diagonals or oneways) 3.1 Creating textures (up to 8 per stop if you include UK friendly versions) 3.2 Creating and laying out the lot (postioning props primarily) 3.3 Modifying the building exemplar (Transit Switching, Costs, Query Windows/Sounds, etc.) and if necessary the lot exemplar (though hopefully Tropods templates should work as advertised). 3.4 Testing/bug fixing There's no individual part of this that I can't do, given time, but in total it's quite a lot of work (especially the textures) which I wasn't going to commit to undertaking. Since you're offering to help, I don't mind putting in some effort as well and maybe we can at least get some of the diagonal stops operational. I've done step 1 (45 degree stairs SC4Model and Prop). The result is attached. As far as step 2 goes I think it's worth seeing what the first lot looks like with orthogonal benches before trying to do anything else. For 3 its just a question of deciding where to start. I suggest the single road stops. I can't tell from your post whether you're voluteering to make any textures or not (step 3.1). If you are then make a start on the US versions of whatever stop you want to do first (I can make an override for UK ones at some point in the future.) If not then I suggest we start with just the standard textures and add custom ones later. (We'll need to be careful that none of the exemplar mods stop the lot from working in the lot editor, but since it seems to be fine working with the existing stops I don't see this being a problem.) I'll start having a play about with some lots for the diagonal road stops now.

@the7trumpets Date: 9/8/2004 3:36:51 PM Author: the7trumpets This looks great! One thing you might consider, if you can get Ralphaelninja to 'rotate' his subway prop 45 degrees, we could include diagonal versions as well as the orthagonal versions. Check out Tropod's diagonal transit enabled lots (templates) on the lot exchange. The rotating of the subway stairs prop isn't necissary, but it would look cool quote> It's great to know that my efforts have been noticed by one of the elite modders Actually Ralphealninja made all the gmax models for the Ninja Boulevard station and Ninja Boulevard kiosk available in the 3D models section of the STEX (something I really wish more of the expert BAT modelers would do). I was therefore able to take the Smallsubwaystairs model, modify it slightly (removing a couple of the railing posts and resizing) before rendering it to make the SC4Model file I used for the stations. Creating a rotated prop/building would not therefore be a big problem (though my GMAX abilities are so bad I'd have to look up exactly how ). Going from Tropod's templates to new Bus stops and stations would be a bigger job so I'm not going to make any promises as to when/if I might do this. I've attached my modified gmax model though, just in case anybody else wants to have a crack at this in the meantime. @Marc Collins Date: 9/8/2004 8:56:32 AM Author: Marc Collins Do avenue stops actually work now--and not block traffic/cause sims to do almost anything to avoid them? If so, congratulations!!!!!!!! quote> The short answer to your question is that I'm not sure. The avenue stops seemed to work ok in my (admittedly limited) testing. Looking back through the forums though I see this is a problem you've been having since the early days of the mod, and I've not done anything in particular to address it, though putting up the capacities may help. As I mentioned in DragonFire's thread the only thing that I can think of that would cause the sims to avoid any of the stops is that the alternative route is quicker than incurring the delays that result from passing through the stop. Some of these delays result from the 'Transit Switch Entry Cost', and is the same across all of the stop types. Date: 9/8/2004 9:05:04 AM Author: Marc Collins Just reading the readme...I haven't noticed this effect in my cities at all, but if all traffic passing through the stop counts towards the capacity, could that be wrecking the avenues' stops? If the bus stop itself has a similar low capacity, but the traffic volume is so much higher...it dissaudes the car traffic from using that stretch of road? quote> What I forgot, until you reminded me with your question above, is that there will be extra delays on congested stops. I don't know exactly how the game arrives at these but they will almost certainly be dependent on the total amount of traffic (of all types) divided by the capacity of the stop. As I mentioned in the readme through traffic and double counting (which always occurs with the avenue stops) means that high capacities are therefore needed to prevent these occurring in an unrealistic way. (eg An avenue carrying 2500 cars and 2500 busses (morning and evening) would require a road top stop with a capacity of at least 10000 in order not to have congestion delays). The avenue stops in the transit supermod have capacities much lower than this (even the HiCapacity versions) so congestion delays are likely. Again, as I explained in DragonFire's thread, the impact of the delays in terms of pathfinding depends heavily on the traffic speed and when using a mod that increases the speeds by a factor of 10, routes of 40 or so extra (road) tiles can be preferred even when the stops have no extra delay due to congestion. With congestion delays I've no idea what sort of alternative lengths would be chosen. If you could answer the following questions it might shed a little more light as to whether this problem is due to delays or something else : - Are you using any mods which change the traffic capacities or speeds or affect pathfinding? - Which version of the Road Top Mass Transit are you using? - Is the problem really only with the avenue stops? i.e if you replace the section of avenue with a stop on it with a section of road with a stop on it does the situation improve? (Since road is slower with lower capacity I would expect the traffic to avoid it even more. If it favours it then something very odd is going on.) - Do the standard avenue tollbooths cause the same problem? Beyond that could you post some detailed examples of how you're using the stops (with screenshots and notes about traffic levels). Maybe that might give me or someone else reading this some ideas about what the problem might be.