Patricius Maximus

I've noticed Vista to be a little worse with crashing than XP, but I don't think that Vista can cause all that. What are your computer stats, your plugins, and your version of Vista?

I have developed a new commercial area in a city called Hanging Cliff, in Franklin County. This region is my CJ (link in my sig). It has ploppable water in it and JRJ Effects (from the LEX). When I try to open it, however, the game almost immediantly crashes to desktop. However, the problem does not exist in the other cities; just in that one. I have tried everything that is obvious to me. Restarted Computer, no luck. Removed all plugins, no success. Uninstalled SC4 Startup Manager, no success. Tried System Restore, no success. If anyone has suggestions to solve this problem, let me know!

<<CAUSE ISOLATED>> I have isolated the cause. In my CJ, when I was reconstructing Hanging Cliff, I plopped some LBT stuff for Mother of Invention's business request. Soon thereafter, the same problem reappeared. But, I put in my backup region and did a little experiment. I removed the LBT stuff, and redeveloped the area zoning only commercial. It didn't crash. Somehow, the LBT stuff caused the chronic CTD's. I actually have learned a few things from this unfortunate incident. The first one is to make backups (obviously ). The second is to continue the effort for the fans, since they really like Franklin County, and it would be a great dissapointment to see it go. I did it for them. Thanks for your input as to this problem. - Patricius Maximus

Phase One (terraforming) already complete! I underestimated the ease of using SC4 Terraformer (haven't opened it since June ).

He stated elsewhere that it was crashing to desktop. Looking forward to the next update, and my development. Patricius Maximus, Head of the Department of Transportation

***ANNOUNCEMENT*** I have thought about this problem, and Dan's suggestion, and I've also thought about the fans, and Virgin Shores. Even though Hanging Cliff has been corrupted (perhaps by politicans ), I have resolved to rebuild it to as close as the original as possible. This will be hard, as I will have to do the complex terraforming and ploppable watering, not to mention all the developments, but I think that it will be worthwhile to the continuation of this CJ. While Hanging Cliff has been rebuilt, the rest of Franklin County will not be going anyplace. Consider this CJ on hiatus until furthur notice. I estimate that anywhere between 2 and 10 days will be required to rebuild the city. I have learned the hard way to make and keep backups regularly, so this cannot happen again. Thanks for your patience. It will be rewarded with a huge update. - Patricius Maximus

Ah, I can as well.

***ATTENTION*** Franklin County may be on the verge of an unexpected ending. Recently, I have tried to go into Hanging Cliff to place Mother of Invention's businesses. After 2 seconds, it crashed. I tried everything in my knowledge; no luck. I have started a thread about this and responses do not look promising for the future of Franklin County. If anyone knows anything about this problem, please drop a comment in the new thread. If it is unrecoverable, then Franklin County will be closed. More information will come as more input about the problem comes in.

That is what I was afraid of. I don't have any backups; however I've learned my lesson. (Note to self: make backups soon). But I will wait for more suggestions to come in, before I declare it a loss.

Two objects naturally having the exact same orbit would be a highly improbable occurrence, certainly. But it's not that they don't have their own orbits, it's that their orbits greatly overlap and come into proximity with the orbits of other similar objects. quote> Yes, they do. But where is the rationale in disqualifying them from planet status? How exactly would Earth and Neptune end up in that group? I can see where you're coming from with Jupiter due to the Trojan Asteroids, but bear in mind that that's hardly the same thing as being a belt of objects instead of a planet since: 1) The Trojans don't stretch all the way around the sun. They're just two small clusters. 2) They never get very close to Jupiter at all since they orbit well in front of and behind it. 3) Jupiter is so much bigger than them.quote> Earth: Earth-crossing asteroids Neptune: Pluto and some centaurs crossing it's orbit. Remember the actual language of the definition. According to the IAU, size makes no difference if an object is "dwarf" or regular, which is a linguistic inconsistency. Well, the thing is that Trojans are in the Lagrange Points, so they are already in equilibrium with Jupiter, they are not orbiting around him, but Jupiter captured them quote> The actual definition only states "clearing the neighbourhood" around its orbit. It does not state that the objects should be in the Lagrange points or not. You could even make the argument that under the current definition, Pluto and all those other such things are planets. I mean, their classification has the word "planet" in the name!quote> I've noticed that myself. Another lingustic inconsistency. They say that dwaf planets are not planets, even though "dwarf" is an adjective to describe the word "planet". Okay, let's try this. What do you people think of this classification hierarchy? Planet: an object orbiting a star which is in hydrostatic equilibrium. Dwarf Planet: a planet with a radius less than or equal to 2000 km ¤In our star system: Ceres, Pluto, Makemake, Eris Midsize Planet: a planet with a radius greater than 2000 km and less than 20000 km ¤In our star system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars Giant Planet: a planet with a radius greater than or equal to 20000 km ¤In our star system: Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune That sound fair enough?quote> Sounds acceptable to me. Not perfectly objective, but then a subtype of oceanic planet would have to not be objective either. In your words, the subtypes sound fair enough.

No. If it is of any use, here's the exception report from my last crash: Exception time: 07/30/2008, at 16:47:13. Exception code: 0xC0000005 (-1073741819) ACCESS_VIOLATION. Current thread ID: 2932 (0x00000b74). Version information: Application/module path: C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe Application/module version name: SimCity 4 Application/module version: 1.1.610.0 System version: Windows NT 6.0 System memory: 2048 Megabytes total, 704 Megabytes free. Exception module: C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe. Exception address: 0x006a57ca. Sectionffset: 0x01:0x0029e7ca. Registers EAX: 00000000 EBX: 00000060 ECX: 113392d4 EDX: 132450f4 ESI: 11e00e48 EDI: 0e695314 CS:EIP: 001b:006a57ca SS:ESP: 0023:0012fc48 EBP:000000ab DS:0023 ES:0023 FS:003b GS:0000 Flags: 00210246 Loaded Modules Address Size Module Path ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0x00400000 8187904 SimCity 4.exe C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe 0x77980000 1171456 ntdll.dll C:\Windows\system32\ntdll.dll 0x778a0000 884736 kernel32.dll C:\Windows\system32\kernel32.dll 0x774a0000 647168 USER32.dll C:\Windows\system32\USER32.dll 0x766b0000 307200 GDI32.dll C:\Windows\system32\GDI32.dll 0x76570000 782336 ADVAPI32.dll C:\Windows\system32\ADVAPI32.dll 0x76310000 798720 RPCRT4.dll C:\Windows\system32\RPCRT4.dll 0x72c00000 28672 WSOCK32.dll C:\Windows\system32\WSOCK32.dll 0x771e0000 184320 WS2_32.dll C:\Windows\system32\WS2_32.dll 0x77540000 696320 msvcrt.dll C:\Windows\system32\msvcrt.dll 0x77210000 24576 NSI.dll C:\Windows\system32\NSI.dll 0x76240000 851968 WININET.dll C:\Windows\system32\WININET.dll 0x773f0000 348160 SHLWAPI.dll C:\Windows\system32\SHLWAPI.dll 0x771d0000 12288 Normaliz.dll C:\Windows\system32\Normaliz.dll 0x77aa0000 282624 iertutil.dll C:\Windows\system32\iertutil.dll 0x76700000 11329536 SHELL32.dll C:\Windows\system32\SHELL32.dll 0x6e370000 462848 DSOUND.dll C:\Windows\system32\DSOUND.dll 0x776c0000 1327104 ole32.dll C:\Windows\system32\ole32.dll 0x74710000 208896 WINMM.dll C:\Windows\system32\WINMM.dll 0x77810000 573440 OLEAUT32.dll C:\Windows\system32\OLEAUT32.dll 0x746d0000 229376 OLEACC.dll C:\Windows\system32\OLEACC.dll 0x75460000 106496 POWRPROF.dll C:\Windows\system32\POWRPROF.dll 0x75630000 32768 VERSION.dll C:\Windows\system32\VERSION.dll 0x72e80000 831488 OPENGL32.dll C:\Windows\system32\OPENGL32.dll 0x72ff0000 143360 GLU32.dll C:\Windows\system32\GLU32.dll 0x6ca70000 942080 DDRAW.dll C:\Windows\system32\DDRAW.dll 0x6f8f0000 24576 DCIMAN32.dll C:\Windows\system32\DCIMAN32.dll 0x763e0000 1609728 SETUPAPI.dll C:\Windows\system32\SETUPAPI.dll 0x72240000 49152 dwmapi.dll C:\Windows\system32\dwmapi.dll 0x6f920000 143360 MSVFW32.dll C:\Windows\system32\MSVFW32.dll 0x73a20000 548864 COMCTL32.dll C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_5.82.6000.16386_none_87e0cb09378714f1\COMCTL32.dll 0x77af0000 122880 IMM32.dll C:\Windows\system32\IMM32.dll 0x775f0000 815104 MSCTF.dll C:\Windows\system32\MSCTF.dll 0x6fa00000 122880 ShimEng.dll C:\Windows\system32\ShimEng.dll 0x76070000 180224 apphelp.dll C:\Windows\system32\apphelp.dll 0x6b750000 2162688 AcGenral.DLL C:\Windows\AppPatch\AcGenral.DLL 0x74e50000 258048 UxTheme.dll C:\Windows\system32\UxTheme.dll 0x75d60000 434176 NETAPI32.dll C:\Windows\system32\NETAPI32.dll 0x76230000 28672 PSAPI.DLL C:\Windows\system32\PSAPI.DLL 0x74510000 86016 MSACM32.dll C:\Windows\system32\MSACM32.dll 0x72700000 20480 sfc.dll C:\Windows\system32\sfc.dll 0x6f120000 53248 sfc_os.DLL C:\Windows\system32\sfc_os.DLL 0x760f0000 122880 USERENV.dll C:\Windows\system32\USERENV.dll 0x760d0000 81920 Secur32.dll C:\Windows\system32\Secur32.dll 0x772b0000 1208320 urlmon.dll C:\Windows\system32\urlmon.dll 0x75ce0000 81920 MPR.dll C:\Windows\system32\MPR.dll 0x773e0000 36864 LPK.DLL C:\Windows\system32\LPK.DLL 0x76630000 512000 USP10.dll C:\Windows\system32\USP10.dll 0x75290000 1654784 comctl32.dll C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_microsoft.windows.common-controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.6000.16386_none_5d07289e07e1d100\comctl32.dll 0x10000000 638976 ~df394b.tmp C:\Users\OD\AppData\Local\Temp\~ef99ee\~df394b.tmp 0x002b0000 24576 saHook.dll C:\Program Files\SiteAdvisor\6261\saHook.dll 0x77220000 540672 CLBCatQ.DLL C:\Windows\system32\CLBCatQ.DLL 0x74760000 290816 rasapi32.dll C:\Windows\system32\rasapi32.dll 0x74d90000 81920 rasman.dll C:\Windows\system32\rasman.dll 0x74960000 200704 TAPI32.dll C:\Windows\system32\TAPI32.dll 0x74750000 49152 rtutils.dll C:\Windows\system32\rtutils.dll 0x74f50000 184320 WINTRUST.dll C:\Windows\system32\WINTRUST.dll 0x75be0000 987136 CRYPT32.dll C:\Windows\system32\CRYPT32.dll 0x75d20000 73728 MSASN1.dll C:\Windows\system32\MSASN1.dll 0x77b10000 167936 imagehlp.dll C:\Windows\system32\imagehlp.dll 0x75660000 229376 rsaenh.dll C:\Windows\system32\rsaenh.dll 0x75a60000 204800 ncrypt.dll C:\Windows\system32\ncrypt.dll 0x75a10000 278528 BCRYPT.dll C:\Windows\system32\BCRYPT.dll 0x75480000 135168 NTMARTA.DLL C:\Windows\system32\NTMARTA.DLL 0x77450000 299008 WLDAP32.dll C:\Windows\system32\WLDAP32.dll 0x75d40000 69632 SAMLIB.dll C:\Windows\system32\SAMLIB.dll 0x75640000 86016 GPAPI.dll C:\Windows\system32\GPAPI.dll 0x75ba0000 233472 slc.dll C:\Windows\system32\slc.dll 0x6cc20000 102400 cryptnet.dll C:\Windows\system32\cryptnet.dll 0x713e0000 24576 SensApi.dll C:\Windows\system32\SensApi.dll 0x74f30000 81920 Cabinet.dll C:\Windows\system32\Cabinet.dll 0x039e0000 3350528 nvd3dum.dll C:\Windows\system32\nvd3dum.dll 0x72db0000 835584 D3DIM700.DLL C:\Windows\system32\D3DIM700.DLL 0x71780000 24576 IconCodecService.d C:\Windows\system32\IconCodecService.dll 0x741c0000 729088 WindowsCodecs.dll C:\Windows\system32\WindowsCodecs.dll 0x74df0000 159744 MMDevApi.dll C:\Windows\System32\MMDevApi.dll 0x74430000 135168 audioses.dll C:\Windows\System32\audioses.dll 0x74300000 417792 audioeng.dll C:\Windows\System32\audioeng.dll 0x74db0000 28672 AVRT.dll C:\Windows\System32\AVRT.dll 0x6d510000 507904 DbgHelp.dll C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\DbgHelp.dll Call stack: (Debug information (.pdb files) appears to be absent). 0x0001:0x0029e7ca C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe\Apps\SimCity 4.exe. Stack data: (ESP is 0x0012fc48) 0x0012fac8 00000000 00ee2980 16400000 00000000 00000000 0000c0c2 08400000 00000000 0x0012fae8 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0000f03f 00000000 00000000 0x0012fb08 34000000 00000000 33040000 00000000 00000000 0000f03f 00000000 00000000 0x0012fb28 1a031803 1a031b03 1c031d03 1e031c03 1e031f03 20032103 22032003 22032303 0x0012fb48 24032503 26032403 26032703 28032903 00000000 0000f03f 00000000 00000000 0x0012fb68 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fb88 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fba8 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fbc8 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fbe8 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fc08 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fc28 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 0x0012fc48 1453690e 00b08201 00040000 01000000 8ac06800 1453690e 00000000 80706a00 0x0012fc68 00000000 a4e11415 1853690e 543ccc17 377b2500 05000000 03000000 f807a61e 0x0012fc88 bd5d1200 48008e03 03000000 a809c747 71030000 00b08201 00040000 0053690e 0x0012fca8 4c94b400 04000000 0cfd1200 f1bf60fe 08000000 00000000 00000000 03916a00 0x0012fcc8 05000000 1853690e 543ccc17 377b2500 05000000 1853690e a84ab500 377b2500 0x0012fce8 33237000 543ccc17 01000000 1418620e 05000000 f52c7000 a4fd2215 1a689566 0x0012fd08 377b2500 01000000 05000000 7418620e 54fd1200 ac19620e 1c18620e 0f000000 0x0012fd28 05000000 542b700e 533d7000 48735e20 14008601 50735e20 1c18620e 34fd1200 0x0012fd48 1cfe1200 40eda600 ffffffff 80fd1200 d3a48700 2d050000 62488c03 14008601 0x0012fd68 00000000 14735e20 50735e20 54735e20 18b58501 3413ca02 a8fd1200 37a58700 0x0012fd88 2d050000 62488c03 14008601 d8fd1200 16938700 bcfd1200 00000000 00000000 0x0012fda8 d8fd1200 29938700 14008801 14008601 00f0fd7f 28020500 00020000 00000000 Instruction data: (EIP is 0x006a57ca) 0x006a574a 00 8b 74 24 10 8d 8e 10 02 00 00 c1 e1 04 03 c8 8d 54 24 20 89 4c 24 20 83 c7 1c 52 8b cf e8 d3 0x006a576a d5 ff ff d9 44 24 14 d8 00 c1 e6 04 81 c6 01 10 00 00 8b cf d9 18 8d 44 24 20 50 89 74 24 24 e8 0x006a578a b2 d5 ff ff d9 44 24 24 d8 00 5f 5e 5d d9 18 5b 83 c4 0c c2 08 00 8b 16 8b ce ff 92 a4 00 00 00 0x006a57aa 8b 4f 3c 8b 11 50 8b 44 24 28 8b 00 50 ff 52 78 8b 4f 3c 8b 11 50 89 44 24 24 ff 92 80 00 00 00 0x006a57ca 8b 10 8b c8 ff 52 34 8b 10 53 55 8b c8 ff 52 1c 0f bf c0 89 44 24 24 db 44 24 24 d8 0d a4 23 a8 0x006a57ea 00 d9 54 24 24 d8 1d 54 10 a8 00 df e0 f6 c4 05 7a 0a c7 44 24 24 00 00 00 00 eb 19 d9 44 24 24 0x006a580a d8 1d 28 12 a8 00 df e0 f6 c4 41 75 08 c7 44 24 24 00 00 80 3f 8b 5c 24 20 8b 16 6a 00 53 8b ce 0x006a582a ff 92 c8 00 00 00 0f b7 c0 89 44 24 20 8d 4c 24 24 db 44 24 20 43 51 8d 4f 1c d8 4c 24 28 89 5c

I pointed it out because I thought it was interesting article to read. I did not say that he was neutral, or supported my statements. There is also Michael Brown, discoverer of Eris. You could argue he has a personal interest, but he supports the IAU definiton. I thought that I'd point out the New Horizons probject's arguments about the definition, since they'd now be sending a probe to a "dwarf planet". I was not trying to make a point when I linked to the article.

For having a changing avatar.

You are oversimplifing the Kuiper Belt. While I do not deny that there is a difference between the two pictures you just mentioned, the two pictures mentioned oversimplify the matter. For instance, we have a body eligible in the Asteroid belt for planet status (or dwarf planet status). This object is Ceres. You haven't grumbled about that object being a member of the Main Belt. But you have expressed disapproval over many more objects in the Kuiper Belt. Where is the rationality in that? Also, in your second diagram, not all of the KBO's are like the irregular asteroids. They are spherical objects. I find no scientific rationale that would disqualify these objects from being planets. The objects mentioned are not in the same orbit. They have their own orbits around the Sun. And you have not defined how large the group of objects has to be. Under your definition of "clearing the neighbourhood", many more objects, including Earth, Jupiter, and Neptune would be classed as "dwarf planets". This only supports what I said about the objectivity of the term "clearing the neighbourhood". Since you cannot observe it objectively, it has to be deferred to the IAU, which is not objective. A definition of a planet must depend on physically observable natural phonomena intrinsic to the planet. Is a star turned into a "dwarf star" because there are more around it? Is a galaxy turned into a "dwarf galaxy" when it's in a close cluster? We accept large numbers of stars, galaxies, and black holes, but there is some kind of blockage in some people's minds to having large numbers of planets; probably because Earth is a planet, and people want to be in a special planet club with a limited number of members. Is this Science? I don't think so. For furthur reading, click here to go to the New Horizons web site and read the team's and Alan Stern's take on the definition. - Patricius Maximus

The DOT still rejects the toll plaza proposed by Mr. Monorail Man. As stated before, the DOT does not reccomend toll roads at this time unless they are limited access tollways designed for inter-city traffic. Secondly, the toll plaza shown has too many at-grade intersections, traffic lights, and traffic restrictions to be of use in Virgin Shores. I accept the decision on the residential. I won't go to the trouble of appealing it. I'm sure I could develop some residential in another, more suitable location sometime in the near future. Could a commercial zone be placed there instead of housing? I think it may be a good location for it. Patricius Maximus, Head of the Department of Transportation

This belongs in the General Off-Topic section.

The video looks great. I like the multi-RHW. I've seen it in snapshots before. zangle06: Regions are not permitted on the STEX. Also, I'd advise using better grammar in your posts for greater clarity.

TENANTS COME TO HANGING CLIFF deathtopumpkins: 1) June? That was just an error, but an odd one. I just typed a 6 instead of a 7. Wierd . 2) The printing staff must have been lazy . I ran into some problems because I accidentally pasted the weather report on the top left and the proper spot, so I had to go back and redo part of the text and picture. Anyway, I'll watch out next time. Mother of Invention: 1) You could buy it in Franklin, but Hanging Cliff now has lower rates and a prime location in the retaining wall area. 2) Please specify what the businesses are. Franklin County is very interested in business. crazyachitect: You might put them out of business. Then again, Red Roof can adapt to your competition. Goldfish4209: Thank you. Businesses have chosen the spot as good real estate, and have bought tracts of land for their offices and retail stores: Mother of Invention: There's plenty of room here for 3 businesses if you chose to set up here. Look, there's now some daily traffic going down I-30's hairpin turn: Here's a closeup showing the traffic going down to Hanging Cliff: And a closeup of a hairpin turn. Since there aren't any guard rails, one can only hope no cars will fall off: With this new commuter trend, will this turn East Valley into a commuter town? Will this be the beginning of the end of East Valley's independence? Tomorrow commenters will give their opinions in the Chronicles. Feel free to post your comments, suggestions, and questions.

Oh goodie, more illegal street racing games to promote the tuning of little Johnny's 1995 Honda Civic DX so that he can wrap it around a pole at 120MPH. Seriously, these sort of games need to stop. The whole point of Pro Street was to encourage kids to take it to the track instead of the street (remember the stupid announcer guy saying "_____ used to street race but now he's done the right thing and taken it to the track.")... What a bunch of hypocrites... Bad show...quote> There is no difference between legal and illegal street racing in the gaming realm. However, illegal street racing in games is more fun because of all the police persuits . Seriously, you need to realize that it's only a game and it's just intended for good fun. Remember the intro on the past NFS games which says "what happens in the game is meant to stay in the game". I don't think that these games have encouraged anyone to become a street racer. It's just like saying that seeing someone smoking in a cartoon will encourage a kid to smoke. That's ludicrous. Any sane kid knows enough about smoking to stay away from it. And even if they tried to smoke a cigarette, they may not like it anyway. Notice I said "sane". I cannot predict the trends of insane people when it comes to advertising. However, they are a tiny minority. It's just intended to be good fun and for the player to have a good experience playing it. No harm intended. - Patricius Maximus

Overall looks good. I suggest you download Transparent Ploppable Water from the LEX. Not only is it transparent, but you can "brush" in a finer line (1/2 tile). I used it in my CJ, Franklin County a few pages back. Take a look . - Patricius Maximus

A radiological dispersion device (i.e. a dirty bomb)

I am saying that they are made out of the same materials, and have the same physical laws governing them. There should be different classes of planets for different types, such as Hot Jupiters. There should be one scheme for classfiying planets both in our Solar System and in others. There could be a Hot Jupiter class in a classification scheme; it's just that we don't have any in our system. That's what I meant. I did not mean that every star system is a clone of ours.

I would like it demolished. I don't think that would be a suitable thing to have at that location. I know what you mean in Queensport; those SG Commercial packs can be very invasive. I didn't get the one with Chuck E Cheese's in it. However, in my region there are plenty of Best Buys . The DOT has stated a few posts back that there will be no toll roads unless they are limited-access, such as an inter-city turnpike. Patricius Maximus, Head of the Department of Transportation

Um, you can too observe empirically and and objectively whether or not an object has cleared its neighborhood. Not by looking at the object, but rather by looking around it. Simply put: Is there anything similar to it orbiting nearby it?quote> How do you objectively define "nearby" and "neighbourhood" with natural phonomena? You cannot. So, my statement is correct. No, it doesn't, it shows that the IAU wanted a definition for our own solar system. If I'm right they're currently considering how to classify objects in other solar systems.quote> It does. Since the IAU is going to apply one definition to our solar system, and another to others, that shows heliocentrism. Other solar systems are not different than our own in terms of planets and characteristics of them. Why should they be classified differently?

A future terminus? It's a better location than I thought. Well, I thought it best to reveal the freeway plans . I'm glad you thought I summed it up neatly. At present, specific plans are between the DOT and the mayor, so part of it is going to be a surprise. The DOT reccomends that future freeways be done with the RHW. And I'm sure that DTP is planning on it, especially since he is doing good work in Queen Anne Hills. Also, building RHW's will benefit in the future because of all the new features that will be avaliable in v21. I am perfectly willing to drop the residential request if the Planning Comitee rejects it. I pre-checked the proposal with Ordinance 1.a and it seemed alright to me. Patricius Maximus, Head of the Department of Transportation