Gman55

After reading EA's painfully cheesy press release (even by press release standards), with its unnecessary exclamation points and talk of gingerbread houses, I realized SCS is simply not for long-time SimCity fans. No zoning, no powerplants, no water pipes, and a focus on social elements and light-hearted fluff -- stuff The Sims demographic would totally go for. And I don't mean this in a bad way (I play The Sims too). Business wise, it's actually a smart move. Shareholders would go ga-ga if even a fraction of the millions of Sims fans bought SCS. And how do they lure them in? By focusing on social elements and chocolate factories and removing real real city management (at least the kind we're used to). The fact that the press release emphasized such things shows who EA is appealing to. SC4 has 100,000 registered members. Even if all 100,000 of those were active, this pales in comparison to the Sims fanbase. I honestly don't think we matter to EA's business strategy. Besides, I think ST may be a victim of its own success: EA sees how industrious the SimCity community is, throws us a new editor with SCS, and says, "Here, make the game how you want it." It's actually a brilliant move...and yes, I am cynical enough to believe this. My question, then, is this: do you think EA is just writing the established SimCity fanbase out of the equation? Or am I being too negative in my analysis?

Leonardo: Welcome to ST! Now to answer your question It's not just SimTrop: plenty of gaming forums I frequent have reacted unfavorably or at best lukewarm to the SCS concept. Part of the outrage, I think, stems from EA's history of "dumbing down" and outright bastardizing certain games (see post Westwood Command&Conquer). To see them do it to a classic game like SimCity really grates on people... ST, I think, speaks for the core group of SC fans who invest tons of time and energy making mods, BATs, and CJs -- stuff that's kept SC4 alive longer than anyone really expected. In another topic, I essentially said that ST represents such a small market that EA can afford to ignore it. That's just business. SCS is such a departure from classic SimCity conventions that it really shouldn't have SimCity in the title. No zoning, powerplants, water pipes? This is why many long-time PC gamers are upset or disappointed with the direction the series is headed. If EA wasn't looking to cash in on the SimCity brand, they'd be better off simply naming it "SimSocieties."

Originally posted by: Cheese89 Originally posted by: PoeticThis is a good way for them to sell expansions (which I think is probably EA's ambition) - Harry Potter style set anyone? New York style set? Anything in between... I think it's pretty obvious where this is going.quote> I like the expansion idea... I thought they were going to end up having more expansions/tilesets for Sc4, but we all know how that turned out. Anyway, it would be cool to have some continued support for the game.quote> I don't. Look at how exploitive The Sims has become; EA milks those fans for every nickel and dime they can get. And it's not just EA: remember the horse armor for Oblivion on Xbox Live? How about the episodic content garbage? I never buy exploitation "item packs" and stuff because it only encourages more nickel and diming from the gaming companies.

I wonder if the SimCity Societies collector's edition will come with a My Little Pony, Fairy Wand, and coupon for a Barbie doll.

The press release, and the game in general, seem to be created for The Sims demographic (no offense -- I play the game too). LIKE OMG GUYS CAN I HAVE FAIRIES AND PONIES TOO!!11 /jaded SimCity fan.

*Better regional management tools, like designating certain cities as bedroom communities or industrial parks. Such meta designations would tweak the RCI demand for the given map, allowing you to better streamline regions. There should also be a way to plan highways and airports from the regional level. *More transit options, but traffic and trips should be streamlined, if only for performance sake. *Ordinances, ordinances, ordinances. They should have a huge impact on how your city operates. For example, London charges people who want to drive downtown. As a result, traffic has decreased dramatically. NYC is considering something similar. I should also be able to enact such an ordinance to increase revenues, reduce traffic, and promote mass transit use. *Residential zoning should be improved. Example: subdivisions should automatically appear if I zone a swath of light res and surround it by a road system. By subdivision I mean houses with a common architectural style and boxed in by those low residential walls. *As mentioned above: readjust the game's scale.

The worst case scenario is that SCS bombs and EA releases a "true" SimCity 5.

Priority No. 1: Establishing leadership positions, delegating authority, setting goals, etc. A project won't go anywhere without management.

meh, I think we should stick with one type of lower school, one type of college, and a few special education rewards.

David: First of all welcome to SimTrop and I think it's really cool how you guys are talking to the community. I have an issue with one of your points. You point out how the cathedral and airport didn't evolve from zones. This is true. But also keep in mind that not every SimCity player enjoys plopping down tons of buildings. I know many SimTrop members love downloading custom buildings and constructing these elaborate, beautiful cities and sharing them with us. Personally, I find the plopping process tedious. I play SimCity to grow an ideal city, to let my Sims surprise me. That's why I only download growables from the STEX. But that's the great thing about SimCity 4: it has zones BUT still appeals to players who enjoy plopping down their perfect city. I just wanted to clarify this because it sounds as if you think all SimCity players plop stuff down.

Originally posted by: El Burro I admit, I loved the Third picture... its starting remind me of Black and White 2 where you actions influenced how you buildings looked and the atmosphere of the game... the contrast between Good and Evil settlements on BW2 was incredible.quote> I fail to see how that's a good thing. I played B&W 2 and it was easily the WORST city builder I've ever played. An outright joke and further proof that Molyneux is a hack. But I digress. The point is the "good and evil" evolving architecure stuff is not unique, hasn't been implementing in a fun way in any game I've played, and, most importantly, is not SimCity as we know it. Edit: And like in B&W2, "challenges" will be required to unlock new buildings. I only hope that SCS's challenges involve more than guiding a spy through a maze or hurling beer barrles over lakes -- thanks for those mind blowing experience, B&W2.

I must say, the ideas have been great so far. They're practical and with a few real programmers, highly feasible. If any community can do this, it's SimTrop. My suggestion is focus on the basics, as in SimCity and SimCity 2000. This is more technical reasons more than anything. Too many project self destruct because they don't take small enough steps...

The game is slated for a winter release. They'll have to bust ass or push back the release date. If Blizzard or a real gaming company were developing the game, I'd totally expect the latter. But about the only person who can push back an EA release date is Will Wright. EA has shown, time and time again, that they're willing to sell bug-filled, untested junk.

The poster of what I think is the evil, Big Brother Sim Mayor on the side of the building just reaffirms the "social" aspect of the game, a part of which I'm not interested. Just take SimCity out of the title already.

YES! SimCity 2000 is my favorite in the series. Sure, it's a bit frustrating trying to play SC2k after being spoiled by the features of 3000 and 4. But in terms of outright fun, SC2k can't be beat. Plus there's the Llama Dome and Arcologies! The Special Edition works fine on my XP build. And it takes all of 20MB of HD space. You can snag a copy for dirt cheap off of eBay or Amazon Marketplace. p.s. I highly recommend the Special Edition, if only for the Will Wright interviews. They're filmed in the mid 1990s and he basically talks about his future ideas, most of which will end up in Spore and The Sims. His only limitation back then was technology...

Ya, I know how you feel LP. SC2k was the first PC game I ever got, back when I was 7 years old. My mom drove all over town trying to find it for me. Hell, I still have the original box with the receipt from Egghead Software. Being the nostalgic geek that I am, I proudly keep the box in my bookshelf with the install disks tucked inside. The news was crushing to me as well. While I don't play SimCity every day like I used to, I still value the series and read SimTrop a few times a week.

Look on the bright side: if SCS is a flop, the SimCity 5 name will be reserved for a more, how should I say it, faithful sequel. That's one advantage of separating it from the standard naming convention...

First of all, there's a HUGE difference between "dumbing down" a game and reducing entry barriers. As an example: dumbing down would be providing auto aim in a FPS game to appeal to the lowest common denominator. On the other hand, reducing entry barriers would involve integrated gameplay tutorials that teach players how to aim (see Half-Life). See the difference? I've been playing SimCity since 1993 and agree with Will Wright about how the series has steadily become too complex. I have no problems with zoning, RCI demand, power plants, pipes, etc. -- after all, these features are what make SimCity SimCity. The complexity stems from too many features crammed into the same underlying game WITHOUT the appropriate adjustments to make these new features easily usable. This Slashdot post details other problems with SC4. BUT this is not to say that I like what they're doing with SCS, which features an over-abundance of hippie, fairy crap. As a side note, I think it's interesting how Team Fortress fans think Team Fortress 2 is "dumbing down" the series. In addition to the cartoony graphics, TF2 removes long-standing features like hand grenades and "bunny hopping." Vets think this is a bad move; Valve thinks it will open the game to more people. Replace Valve with EA and we have similar situations. p.s. We'll never really know what Will wants until he starts actively working on SimCity again.

No zoning? No pipes? Nothing the series is known for? Sorry, but this IS NOT SimCity as far as I'm concerned. For lack of a better term, it sounds as if SCS has too much "hippie crap" and not enough city engineering. I for one liked not having to worry about my Sims' obedience and crap; save that for the Sims. And what's with this picture? A Gothic castle, an Amish buggy, Star Trek street lights (?) and a Japanese building all on the same street? Will Cinderella's pumpkin carriage be next? I know SC has never been totally realistic, but this looks silly and stupid. LIKE OMG GUYS HOW COOL WILL IT BE!1!1 http://media.1up.com/media?id=3318946&type=lg My hatred for EA has no bounds after this.

A rule of thumb: long-time fans get pissed if the next installment of their favorite videogame has a "cartoony" art style. Example 1: Team Fortress 2. It looks like The Incredibles meets 1960s action comics. I happen to think the art direction rocks, but many long-time Team Fortress fans think it's stupid, a way to appeal to console "kiddies" and what not. Example 2: Civilization IV. I read a few complaints from the Civ old timers that the new graphics were silly and demeaned such a prestigious "Ivy Legue" series. Example 3: See SimTrop's SimCity 5 forum

Interesting point. Could Sim City Societies be like The Sims Life Stories? Part of the series, but not a true and true sequel?

Yeah, SimTower rocks. What I'm saying is that the Sim name has been tossed around over the years, sometimes to great games, sometimes to not-so-great games. It's totally within Maxis "tradition" to license the name to another studio.

Only an idiot would compare SimCity 4 BATs and mods to Natural Selection. I've played both and they're TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS! Just ignore them. I don't think these people appreciate how long it takes to render and test this stuff.

In perspective, the Sim brand has seen its fair share of crap over the decades. SimHealth anyone? It's just that SimCity itself has never been crappy. SimCity 5 is not unlike SimTower: an outside studio (as in non-Maxis people) developing a game and slapping the "Sim" moniker on it.

EA ruins games. Anyone who's followed the Battlefield series since the original knows what I'm talking about. I bought EA's Command&Conquer First Decade Collection and several of the games won't even work on my XP build. I had to find two third-party patches just to get it to work. So ya, I've been harsh on TM Entertainment. The reality is that EA is a terrible gaming company. They rush out buggy crap, sell exploitation games (see EA Sports), and work their programming grunts to the bone. Oh, and then they put ads in our games (Battlefield 2142). Just contrast the quality of their work with Blizzard's or Valve's.