belfastuniguy

I did collate a Belfast Thread, but that was a very long time ago and feel its time to begin again and instead this time look at places outside Belfast, including Belfast itself. I'll throw in some interesting fact along the way also and in addition to urban images showcase the unbelievable beauty of the Northern Irish countryside and especially the coastal areas, described as some of the most spectacular in the world. First up, the first instalment from Belfast Belfast Area: 115sqkm City Population: 267,500 Metro Population: 783,418 Capital of Northern Ireland, once an economic and industrial powerhouse within the British Empire. Formerly home to the largest linen mills, engineering works, tobacco factories, ropeworks and of course the world largest shipyard. It hosted some of the grandest Victorian architecture in the United Kingdom and its large department stores served people ranging from the British Royal Family, shipping magnates, industrial giants to the Russian Imperial Family. witness to over 30 years of horrific violence, it suffered greatly and its once proud industrial and commercial heritage collapsed. Yet today it is a shinning light in the economic gloom. Booming tourism, speedy economic growth, a young and energetic population among the most educated and vibrant in the United Kingdom and a example of economic development that countless cities now emulate. It is home to Ireland's tallest building, the largest waterfont development ever undertaken in Europe and one of the largest inner-city shopping developments in Europe. It has the second lowest crime rate in the developed world after Japan and has recently developed ina technology research and development powerhouse within Europe with companies like Microsoft, Citigroup establishing European bases. First selection of pics will look at Belfast today, some of its modern developments and most iconic buildings Sirocco Quays Once home to the largest engineering plants and ropeworks in the world, Sirocco pioneered many new innovations, including air conditioning units and the worlds first tea leaf drying burners that were shipped across the world. Indeed Belfast was the first ever city in the world to have a building that used air conditioning, the Royal Victoria Hospital. The former factory has been demolished and all that remain is the old brick wall and chimney running alongside the River Lagan. The site is currently under re-development with the Chimney remaining as a mark of the sites previous significance to the city of Belfast. Belfast City Hall and Donegall Square Plans for the City Hall began in 1888 when Belfast was awarded city status by Queen Victoria. This was in recognition of Belfast's rapid expansion and thriving linen, rope-making, shipbuilding and engineering industries. During this period Belfast briefly overtook Dublin as the most populous city on the island of Ireland The exterior is built mainly from Portland stone and is in the Classical Renaissance style. It covers an area of one and a half acres and has an enclosed courtyard. Featuring towers at each of the four corners, with a lantern-crowned 173ft brass dome in the centre, the City Hall dominates the city centre skyline. As with other Victorian buildings in the city centre, the City Hall's copper-coated domes are a distinctive green. The interior has a number of notable features including The Porte-Cochère and Grand Entrance, The Grand Staircase, The Reception Room and The Great Hall. The latter was destroyed during the Belfast blitz and subsequently rebuilt. Carrara, Pavonazzo and Brescia marbles are used extensively throughout the building as are stained glass windows featuring among others the Belfast Coat of Arms, portraits of Queen Victoria and King William III and shields of the Provinces of Ireland. The grounds are open for people to enjoy and when it's sunny are used by shoppers and offices workers for a cool place to lunch. The grounds also feature many memorials, including; One of Queen Victoria Titanic Memorial James Magennis VC, the only Northern Irish recipient of the Victoria Cross during World War II One to the American Expeditionary Force, many of whom were based in Belfast prior to D-Day. William Pirrie - 1st Viscount Pirrie, Chairman of Harland and Wolff and Belfast Lord Mayor Edward James Harland - Founder of Harland and Wolff It also has Northern Ireland's Cenotaph and garden of remembrance Cue lots of lovely pictures Belfast City Hall Titanic Memorial Queen Victoria Statue Memorial Window to the 1907 Dock Strike Northern Ireland Cenotaph Memorial to the Royal Ulster Rifles Around City Hall Robinson and Cleaver Department Store This once was the largest and most exclusive in Belfast with customers ranging from shipping magnates, the Royal Family to the Tsars of Russia Robinson and Cleaver with the Statue of Harland Former Mill House - now Marks and Spencer Scottish Provident Building Pearl Insurance Building Northern Ireland HSBC HQ Ulster Bank HQ Bank of Ireland HQ for Northern Ireland Overview That's just the very start, a lot more to come from Belfast and from across Northern Ireland

This CJ has been in existance since December 2006 and is currently hosted on Simtropolis and the SCJU This CJ has also just underwent improvement works with improved graphics and a better layout, I hope you can see the differences and enjoy reading through it. There are several things I would like to say before we start. This is not meant to be a realistic CJ, firstly it's set in the future, we use advanced technology but not in an absurd OTT way, but in a subtle way. I have also attempted to create an almost ideal nation, poverty does not exist, there is no crime and living standards are extremely high. City layouts are not meant to be real either, but grand in scale and showing detailed masterplanning. I. Introduction, Imperial Capital & Atlantan/Irish Tunnel II. Mount Stewart, Simylmpic Bid III. Imperial University IV. Collin Glen, SCJU World Wonder Bid & Atlantis International Commerce Zone V. SCJU Union Day, URSC/SCJU Sim Calcio Final & Atlantis from Space VI. Atlantis Reborn, Cathedral of Kings and Imperial Quarter Early History World War One World War Two The Fall of Caledon and the birth of the Imperial Kingdom The Imperial Kingdom of Atlantis was born out of war and poverty. A once powerful and great nation was left devasted by war, after countless economic depressions the people wanted, the people needed change. The National Movement for Reconciliation and Prosperity was formed and after election victory their leader Michael James Stormont went about creating a new nation. Today the Imperial Kingdom is a highly advanced and wealthly nation. Located off the western coast of Ireland this island nation has regained its place as one of the most powerful nations on future earth. The people live under the Imperial Rule of Emperor Stormont III in a rich and crime free society where advanced technology maintains and continues to develop society. The Imperial Kingdom and her Colonies have once again found their place within the elite of global nations. This power is displayed by means to foreigners by means of wealth, technology and the masterplanning of the once war devasted cities of the island. (Left to right - The Seal of the Imperial Kingdom, The Atlantan Flag and the Seal of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Stormont III)

Fantastic news, another step at addressing the backwardness of some aspects of American society. Obama to end military gay policy Obama: "I will end 'don't ask, don't tell'" US President Barack Obama has said he will end the ban on gay people serving openly in the military. He said he would repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that allows gay people to serve in the military if they do not reveal their sexual orientation. Mr Obama was speaking to America's largest gay group - the Human Rights Campaign - in Washington. He had been criticised by some in the gay community for the lack of action on gay marriage and the military issue. A big gay rights protest march is planned in Washington for Sunday. Disquiet Mr Obama was addressing thousands of gay and lesbian people at a fundraising dinner in the US capital. Do not doubt the direction we are heading and the destination we will reach Barack Obama Letting down gay supporters? He said the US had made progress on gay rights and would make more. On the military issue he said the US could not afford to lose those people who had much needed skills for fighting. "We should not be punishing patriotic Americans who have stepped forward to serve the country," Mr Obama said. "We should be celebrating their willingness to step forward and show such courage." Mr Obama did not give a timetable for repeal of the policy, passed by Congress in 1993, under which thousands of service members have been discharged. The US president has repeatedly pledged to tackle issues important to the gay community. But he has faced criticism for what many in the gay community see as lack of action on his promises. Mr Obama asked the audience to trust his administration. "I appreciate that many of you don't believe progress has come fast enough. Do not doubt the direction we are heading and the destination we will reach," he said. One issue causing disquiet among the US gay community is the issue of gay marriage, the BBC's Rajesh Mirchandani in Los Angeles says. Mr Obama has been criticised for not delivering on his promise to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which limits how local and federal bodies can recognise gay partnerships and determine benefits. In his speech, Mr Obama did call on Congress to repeal the act and he also called for a law that would extend benefits to domestic partners. In many places in America, gay people enjoy a high profile, economic and political clout, our correspondent says.quote> BBC NEWS

China and Russia, which i'm assuming are the big nations you are thinking ofquote> No actually Saudi Arabia comes to mind and the way it bans women from taking part in society....that includes driving. Add to that that Annapolis, West Point, and other military institutions are some of the finest universities in America. quote> Do you have evidence that shows that no gay people have been there??? Because I have evidence to counter such a thing, indeed Westpoint has a Gay support group Our army is volunteers onlyquote> Gays not need apply....

Although the terms civilized and developed are qualitative, so its left to ones opinion to determine whether a nation is "civilized" or "developed", which makes this somewhat difficult.quote> Well seeing as some of those nations do not have equal rights for all their citizens, no....they would not be classed as civilised Alexander the Great was never homosexual,quote> hhhmmmm You wanna check your classical civilisation education? I'll educate you if you wish, though I'd rather save you the embarrassment tbh. If having a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy is so detrimental to an army, why has the united states been the largest military power in the world for the past 60 years, and not one of the 15 or 20 countries that allows openly gay troops? quote> Because a large part of your army is comprised of individuals of lacking education ability from disadvantaged backgrounds seeking stable employment and salary. Factor into that the gun-ho nature of some Americans. Also... You're NOT that largest military, the Chinese are. They were not dismissed because they were gay... They were dismissed because they couldn't follow a simple rule. Three words. They couldn't say three words [i am gay]. That's all they had to do. If you can't follow such an easy rule, i doubt you will be a good soldier.quote> Not even going to address that as it's one of the most retarded things I have ever read,

Enjoyment of gay sex is enjoyment of gay sex, sorry to be so blunt, but it is required. Time has no impact on that I'm afraid. They simply were not confined by the suffocating religious dominated 'morality' the western world has and in some cases is still subject to. I understand that people like yourself support the repeal but are unsure of the impact, but experience across the free world shows it has no detrimental impact whatsoever, Also....seeing as we are engaging in semantics, the American military is not the largest, that would be the Chinese.

I disagree.. I am sure if you have a group of backward rednecks with little education or soldiers with a massive personal insecurity complex then you may have an issue. In such a case maybe you could look at the quality of the aforementioned army, instead of how MASSIVE it is. The British Army is widely recognised as the best trained in the world, they instil respect and professionalism, that IMO contributes to tolerance as well as the fact the UK is somewhat less hyperbolic when it comes to 'gay' issues. Cultures are different, but such moves are required to further your society. by 2003 10,000 American military personnel had left or been discharged becuase they disclosed their sexuality. That does NOTHING for the 'good' of your army or the country. Indeed its an utter disgrace to waste 10,000 trained and in the majority of cases successful army, naval and air force personnel.

Pure and utter semantics, they engaged and indeed many enjoyed living a 'gay' lifestyle. Does not detract from my actual point pointing out the utter fallacy of Manticore's arguement.

Originally posted by: JollyBobber Originally posted by: dfwpike 9.8% unemployment and rising... record budget deficit... government takeover of health care... etc... etc So how's that Hope and Change working out for ya?quote> I don't think those are all Obama's fault. When he took over, things were pretty bad..... quote> That's accurate. He inherited the largest trade deficit in US history, falling living standards, a recession, an ever increasing number of Americans dying from preventable diseases and two wars. Do love how the Republicans like to shift the blame for their failure over 8 years.

Of course they did.....are you actually serious?

Duke's point stands, with the weight of some psychological research behind it. quote> Do link.. I very much enjoy seeing the links you post. It allows me to counter them

Whole wars hinge on a battle sometimes, and whole battles often turn on the actions of just a few men. quote> Indeed, people like Alexander the Great, Emperor Hadrian, Julius Caesar, Peter the Great and Edward II would agree wholeheartedly. But what would they know....they were only gays as would these people...American none the less Three retired high-ranking US military personnel have publicly declared themselves as gay in protest at the problems facing homosexuals in the armed forces. Since 1993, and the introduction of the "don't ask, don't tell" law - which permitted homosexuals to serve as long as they kept their sexual orientation to themselves - nearly 10,000 gays have been "separated" or discharged from the US armed services. The Department of Defense says the law is necessary as "homosexual conduct" can undermine the performance of the army. But Virgil Richard, a US Army Brigadier General, Alan Steinman, a Rear Admiral in the US Coast Guard and Brigadier General Keith Kerr, the highest-ranking military officers to acknowledge that they are gay, say the policy is a misguided one. They argue that forcing gays to keep their sexuality a secret has itself a negative impact on military performance, and note that Britain's decision to include gays and lesbians in the army has not had any discernible impact on the forces effectiveness in the battlefield.quote>

As discriminatory as the policy may be, there are, actually, practical arguments in favor of it.quote> What an absolute crock, in fact that entire post could have been made by the hyperbole entertainers on FOX (faux) News. Pretty much every other military in the civilised developed world had abolished such policies and he has done nothing to damage them. The British Army remains one of the best in the world and to be honest IMO it's THE best in terms of professionalism and respect. The policy is blatant discrimination and has resulted in thousands of well trained and at times outstanding military personnel being ejected from the US Military. So yeah.....I can really see the positive of such a policy. It's a long overdue law change in a nation that is supposedly a land of equals.....yeah right!!!

Barack Obama's peace prize starts a fight Gasps echoed through the Nobel Hall in Oslo yesterday as Barack Obama was unveiled as the winner of the 2009 Peace Prize, sparking a global outpouring of incredulity and praise in unequal measure. Mr Obama was sound asleep in the White House when the Norwegian Nobel Committee made the shock announcement. It said that he was being honoured for his “extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and co-operation between peoples”. In a clear swipe at his predecessor, George W. Bush, the committee praised the “change in the international climate” that the President had brought, along with his cherished goal of ridding the world of nuclear weapons. “Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future,” it added. International reaction ranged from delight to disbelief. The former winners Kofi Annan and Desmond Tutu voiced praise, the latter lauding the Nobel Committee’s “surprising but imaginative choice”. But Lech Walesa, the dissident turned Polish President, who won the Peace Prize in 1983, spoke for many, declaring: “So soon? Too early. He has no contribution so far.” Mr Obama’s domestic critics leapt on the award as evidence of foreigners fawning over an untested “celebrity” leader. Rush Limbaugh, the US right-wing commentator, said: “This fully exposes the illusion that is Barack Obama." Speaking later, Mr Obama said that he was “surprised and deeply humbled” by the unexpected decision and announced that he would donate the £880,000 prize, due to be awarded in December, to charity. “Let me be clear. I do not view it as recognition of my own accomplishments but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations," he said. The Nobel Peace Prize is a notoriously difficult award to predict, but yesterday's decision was clearly a political choice, with three of the past six peace awards going to Bush adversaries. In 2002 the prize went to Jimmy Carter as an explicit rejection of the Bush presidency in the build-up to the Iraq war. In 2005 Mohamed ElBaradei, the UN atomic agency chief who had clashed with Washington over the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, was honoured. In 2007 Al Gore received the prize for his warnings on climate change, denounced by President Bush as a liberal myth. The award is also an example of what Nobel scholars call the growing aspirational trend of Nobel committees over the past three decades, by which awards are given not for what has been achieved but in support of the cause being fought for. Thorbjørn Jagland, the committee chairman, made clear that this year’s prize fell in that category. “If you look at the history of the Peace Prize, we have on many occasions given it to try to enhance what many personalities were trying to do,” he said. “It could be too late to respond three years from now.” But Bobby Muller, who won the Nobel Prize as co-founder of the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, told The Times: "I don't have the highest regard for the thinking or process of the Nobel committee. Maybe Norway should give it to Sweden so they can more properly handle the Peace Prize along with all the other Nobel prizes."quote> The Times of London

Empire State Building Goes Red for Communist China, Sparking Protest NEW YORK — New York is seeing red over the decision to turn the city's highest beacon — and one of America's symbols for free enterprise — into a shining monument honoring China's communist revolution Wednesday night. The Empire State Building is set to be illuminated in red and yellow lights to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the bloody communist takeover. The tower is lit in white most nights, but nearly every week gets splashed with color to honor holidays and heroes — red, white and blue for Independence Day, green for St. Patrick's Day, true blue for New York's Finest. The building's managers say they have honored a host of countries, including Canada, India and Australia, but as of Wednesday that list of honorees now includes one of the world's last great authoritarian regimes. Tourists were squirming as the city's 102-story landmark — which gained a special significance for New Yorker's after 9/11, when it again became Manhattan's tallest building — was being converted into a shining red beacon for Chinese communism. "I think it's a bad idea," said Dick Paasch, 69, from Billings, Montana. "The Chinese Revolution ... in the years 1958-1960, there were something like 26 million people starved to death. Why would we want to celebrate something like that? "I think the Chinese have come a long way since then, but I certainly wouldn't celebrate the revolution," he said. Representatives for the building say it won't incur any extra costs to use the colored floodlights, so taxpayers won't have to pay a dime. But tourists thought it would have been better if the building would have stayed white this Wednesday. "It seems a little out of place in New York City, an American city, having communist colors," said Cathy Crismore of Lancaster, California. "That doesn't seem right." New York politicians have paid notice as well, and say they are let down by the light-up. Rep. Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., said it was a mistake to pay tribute to what he called "a nation with a shameful history on human rights." Historians of the revolution noted the unimaginable — and often forgotten — toll of the revolution and China's communist rule, which has taken tens of millions of lives through years of war, famine, reeducation and wholesale slaughter. "China gets treatment that other dictatorships can only dream of — a free pass on human rights," said Arthur Waldron, a history professor at the University of Pennsylvania. The revolution and its aftermath may have been deadlier than any world war: though estimates vary, research from the historian Chang Jung shows that as many as 72 million people died as a result. During one five-year period alone, the Great Famine of 1958-1962, 36 million Chinese are believed to have starved as a result of Mao's Great Leap Forward, a government policy meant to industrialize the nation. During those years of ruin, peasants ate bark, maggots, bird droppings, human flesh — anything to survive — as government storehouses stood full with grain and other cereals, neither the first nor last in China's troubled line of violations of human rights. "China remains strongly oppressive — but we make a lot of money, and we have a tendency to romanticize the country, confusing her brilliant cultural heritage with the current communist regime," said Waldron. "Will we light it in honor of Tibet?" About 40 protesters massed outside the Empire State Building Wednesday morning as China's New York consul attended a ceremony the building's managers said was to honor "the 1.3 billion Chinese people and the 60th anniversary of their country." "Because the Empire State Building is such a cultural icon ... this touches a chord close to home for people," said Lhadon Tethong, a leader of the demonstrators from Students for a Free Tibet. Tethong said that the lights on the building "are a symbol of support for the Chinese state — for a totalitarian state," which ignores the country's "abominable record on human rights, on liberty." Waldron, of the University of Pennsylvania, said he thought there would be an outcry if another brutal regime were so honored by the tower. "Would we have lit the Empire State Building for the USSR knowing what we do about the Gulag?quote>

Exactly Meg. I don't think Americans were fully aware of the incredible disgust and at times hatred that a very large majority of the international world held for America, its polices and general attitude. Especially its disrespectful stance to global institutions like the UN and seeming inadequacies at dealing with certain issues. I also don't think Americans understand how the Obama Presidency has completely and utterly transformed their international reputation and global standing. His speeches in Berlin, Prague and Cairo has been fundamental in this process. Most of the criticism is coming from American Republicans, on that count I'm not exactly surprised. Indeed most criticism is coming from America itself. While I'm not exactly thrilled it has been awarded to him, I do understand the reasoning, I also take offence to the comments that the Nobel Prize is now worthless, it displays a shocking and somewhat obnoxious attitude to something you clearly have no understanding of. Indeed it is such attitudes toward international institutions that resulted in the woefully weak international reputation Obama inherited.

There's nothing not so about it. A referendum was promised if the Constitutional proposal was the final decision. It was not. I have read both the former constitution document and the Lisbon Treaty and they are different. So I'm rather more informed about the issue than most. The ratification of the treaty is nothing new, former treaties have been ratified in parliament, this is no different. The role of parliament also includes ratification of international agreements, treaties and policy.

He was voted back into power no that long ago,

The people gave them permission when they elected them to Parliament...or do you need me to explain the role of Parliament to you? Just as they did with previous treaties. You also have a rather lacking education on the realities of British trade, especially as over 50% of our exports are to the EU. Would you also like me to explain the complexities of the British systems of trade?

Will California become America's first failed state? Los Angeles, 2009: California may be the eighth largest economy in the world, but its state staff are being paid in IOUs, unemployment is at its highest in 70 years, and teachers are on hunger strike. So what has gone so catastrophically wrong? Patients without medical insurance wait for treatment in the Forum, a music arena in Inglewood, Los Angeles. The 1,500 free places were filled by 4am. Photograph: John Moore/Getty Images California has a special place in the American psyche. It is the Golden State: a playground of the rich and famous with perfect weather. It symbolises a lifestyle of sunshine, swimming pools and the Hollywood dream factory. But the state that was once held up as the epitome of the boundless opportunities of America has collapsed. From its politics to its economy to its environment and way of life, California is like a patient on life support. At the start of summer the state government was so deeply in debt that it began to issue IOUs instead of wages. Its unemployment rate has soared to more than 12%, the highest figure in 70 years. Desperate to pay off a crippling budget deficit, California is slashing spending in education and healthcare, laying off vast numbers of workers and forcing others to take unpaid leave. In a state made up of sprawling suburbs the collapse of the housing bubble has impoverished millions and kicked tens of thousands of families out of their homes. Its political system is locked in paralysis and the two-term rule of former movie star Arnold Schwarzenegger is seen as a disaster – his approval ratings having sunk to levels that would make George W Bush blush. The crisis is so deep that Professor Kevin Starr, who has written an acclaimed history of the state, recently declared: "California is on the verge of becoming the first failed state in America." Outside the Forum in Inglewood, near downtown Los Angeles, California has already failed. The scene is reminiscent of the fallout from Hurricane Katrina, as crowds of impoverished citizens stand or lie aimlessly on the hot tarmac of the centre's car park. It is 10am, and most have already been here for hours. They have come for free healthcare: a travelling medical and dental clinic has set up shop in the Forum (which usually hosts rock concerts) and thousands of the poor, the uninsured and the down-on-their-luck have driven for miles to be here. The queue began forming at 1am. By 4am, the 1,500 spaces were already full and people were being turned away. On the floor of the Forum, root-canal surgeries are taking place. People are ferried in on cushions, hauled out of decrepit cars. Sitting propped up against a lamp post, waiting for her number to be called, is Debbie Tuua, 33. It is her birthday, but she has taken a day off work to bring her elderly parents to the Forum, and they have driven through the night to get here. They wait in a car as the heat of the day begins to rise. "It is awful for them, but what choice do we have?" Tuua says. "I have no other way to get care to them." Yet California is currently cutting healthcare, slashing the "Healthy Families" programme that helped an estimated one million of its poorest children. Los Angeles now has a poverty rate of 20%. Other cities across the state, such as Fresno and Modesto, have jobless rates that rival Detroit's. In order to pass its state budget, California's government has had to agree to a deal that cuts billions of dollars from education and sacks 60,000 state employees. Some teachers have launched a hunger strike in protest. California's education system has become so poor so quickly that it is now effectively failing its future workforce. The percentage of 19-year-olds at college in the state dropped from 43% to 30% between 1996 and 2004, one of the highest falls ever recorded for any developed world economy. California's schools are ranked 47th out of 50 in the nation. Its government-issued bonds have been ranked just above "junk". Some of the state's leading intellectuals believe this collapse is a disaster that will harm Californians for years to come. "It will take a while for this self-destructive behaviour to do its worst damage," says Robert Hass, a professor at Berkeley and a former US poet laureate, whose work has often been suffused with the imagery of the Californian way of life. Now, incredibly, California, which has been a natural target for immigration throughout its history, is losing people. Between 2004 and 2008, half a million residents upped sticks and headed elsewhere. By 2010, California could lose a congressman because its population will have fallen so much – an astonishing prospect for a state that is currently the biggest single political entity in America. Neighbouring Nevada has launched a mocking campaign to entice businesses away, portraying Californian politicians as monkeys, and with a tag-line jingle that runs: "Kiss your assets goodbye!" You know you have a problem when Nevada – famed for nothing more than Las Vegas, casinos and desert – is laughing at you. This matters, too. Much has been made globally of the problems of Ireland and Iceland. Yet California dwarfs both. It is the eighth largest economy in the world, with a population of 37 million. If it was an independent country it would be in the G8. And if it were a company, it would likely be declared bankrupt. That prospect might surprise many, but it does not come as news to Tuua, as she glances nervously into the warming sky, hoping her parents will not have to wait in the car through the heat of the day just to see a doctor. "It is so depressing. They both worked hard all their lives in this state and this is where they have ended up. It should not have to be this way," she says. It is impossible not to be impressed by the physical presence of Arnold Schwarzenegger when he walks into a room. He may appear slightly smaller than you imagine, but he's just as powerful. This is, after all, the man who, before he was California's governor, was the Terminator and Conan the Barbarian. But even Schwarzenegger is humbled by the scale of the crisis. At a press conference in Sacramento to announce the final passing of a state budget, which would include billions of dollars of cuts, the governor speaks in uncharacteristically pensive terms. "It is clear that we do not know yet what the future holds. We are still in troubled waters," he says quietly. He looks subdued, despite his sharp grey suit and bright pink tie. Later, during a grilling by reporters, Schwarzenegger is asked an unusual question. As a gaggle of journalists begins to shout, one man's voice quickly silences the others. "Do you ever feel like you're watching the end of the California dream?" asks the reporter. It is clearly a personal matter for Schwarzenegger. After all, his life story has embodied it. He arrived virtually penniless from Austria, barely speaking English. He ended up a movie star, rich beyond his dreams, and finally governor, hanging Conan's prop sword in his office. Schwarzenegger answers thoughtfully and at length. He hails his own experience and ends with a passionate rallying call in his still thickly accented voice. "There is people that sometimes suggest that the American dream, or the Californian dream, is evaporating. I think it's absolutely wrong. I think the Californian dream is as strong as ever," he says, mangling the grammar but not the sentiment. Looking back, it is easy to see where Schwarzenegger's optimism sprung from. California has always been a special place, with its own idea of what could be achieved in life. There is no such thing as a British dream. Even within America, there is no Kansas dream or New Jersey dream. But for California the concept is natural. It has always been a place apart. It is of the American West, the destination point in a nation whose history has been marked by restless pioneers. It is the home of Hollywood, the nation's very own fantasy land. Getting on a bus or a train or a plane and heading out for California has been a regular trope in hundreds of books, movies, plays, and in the popular imagination. It has been writ large in the national psyche as free from the racial divisions of the American South and the traditions and reserve of New England. It was America's own America. Michael Pollan, author of The Omnivore's Dilemma and now an adopted Californian, remembers arriving here from his native New England. "In New England you would have to know people for 10 years before they let you in their home," he says. "Here, when I took my son to his first play date, the mother invited me to a hot tub." Michael Levine is a Hollywood mover and shaker, shaping PR for a stable of A-list clients that once included Michael Jackson. Levine arrived in California 32 years ago. "The concept of the Californian dream was a certain quality of life," he says. "It was experimentalism and creativity. California was a utopia." Levine arrived at the end of the state's golden age, at a time when the dream seemed to have been transformed into reality. The 1950s and 60s had been boom-time in the American economy; jobs had been plentiful and development rapid. Unburdened by environmental concerns, Californian developers built vast suburbs beneath perpetually blue skies. Entire cities sprang from the desert, and orchards were paved over into playgrounds and shopping malls. "They came here, they educated their kids, they had a pool and a house. That was the opportunity for a pretty broad section of society," says Joel Kotkin, an urbanist at Chapman University, in Orange County. This was what attracted immigrants in their millions, flocking to industries – especially defence and aviation – that seemed to promise jobs for life. But the newcomers were mistaken. Levine, among millions of others, does not think California is a utopia now. "California is going to take decades to fix," he says. So where did it all wrong? Few places embody the collapse of California as graphically as the city of Riverside. Dubbed "The Inland Empire", it is an area in the southern part of the state where the desert has been conquered by mile upon mile of housing developments, strip malls and four-lane freeways. The tidal wave of foreclosures and repossessions that burst the state's vastly inflated property bubble first washed ashore here. "We've been hit hard by foreclosures. You can see it everywhere," says political scientist Shaun Bowler, who has lived in California for 20 years after moving here from his native England. The impact of the crisis ranges from boarded-up homes to abandoned swimming pools that have become a breeding ground for mosquitoes. Bowler's sister, visiting from England, was recently taken to hospital suffering from an infected insect bite from such a pool. "You could say she was a victim of the foreclosure crisis, too," he jokes. But it is no laughing matter. One in four American mortgages that are "under water", meaning they are worth more than the home itself, are in California. In the Central Valley town of Merced, house prices have crashed by 70%. Two Democrat politicians have asked for their districts to be declared disaster zones, because of the poor economic conditions caused by foreclosures. In one city near Riverside, a squatter's camp of newly homeless labourers sleeping in their vehicles has grown up in a supermarket car park – the local government has provided toilets and a mobile shower. In the Los Angeles suburb of Pacoima, one in nine homeowners are now in default on their mortgage, and the local priest, the Rev John Lasseigne, has garnered national headlines – swapping saving souls to saving houses, by negotiating directly with banks on behalf of his parishioners. For some campaigners and advocates against suburban sprawl and car culture, it has been a bitter triumph. "Let the gloating begin!" says James Kunstler, author of The Long Emergency, a warning about the high cost of the suburban lifestyle. Others see the end of the housing boom as a man-made disaster akin to a mass hysteria, but with no redemption in sight. "If California was an experiment then it was an experiment of mass irresponsibility – and that has failed," says Michael Levine. Nowhere is the economic cost of California's crisis writ larger than in the Central Valley town of Mendota, smack in the heart of a dusty landscape of flat, endless fields of fruit and vegetables. The town, which boldly terms itself "the cantaloup capital of the world", now has an unemployment rate of 38%. That is expected to rise above 50% as the harvest ends and labourers are laid off. City officials hold food giveaways every two weeks. More than 40% of the town's people live below the poverty level. Shops have shut, restaurants have closed, drugs and alcohol abuse have become a problem. Standing behind the counter of his DVD and grocery store, former Mendota mayor Joseph Riofrio tells me it breaks his heart to watch the town sink into the mire. His father had built the store in the 1950s and constructed a solid middle-class life around it, to raise his family. Now Riofrio has stopped selling booze in a one-man bid to curb the social problems breaking out all around him. "It is so bad, but it has now got to the point where we are getting used to it being like this," he says. Riofrio knows his father's achievements could not be replicated today. The state that once promised opportunities for working men and their families now promises only desperation. "He could not do what he did again. That chance does not exist now," Riofrio says. Outside, in a shop that Riofrio's grandfather built, groups of unemployed men play pool for 25 cents a game. Near every one of the town's liquor stores others lie slumped on the pavements, drinking their sorrows away. Mendota is fighting for survival against heavy odds. The town of 7,000 souls has seen 2,000 people leave in the past two years. But amid the crisis there are a few sparks of hope for the future. California has long been an incubator of fresh ideas, many of which spread across the country. If America emerges from its crisis a greener, more economically and politically responsible nation, it is likely that renewal will have begun here. The clues to California's salvation – and perhaps even the country as a whole – are starting to emerge. Take Anthony "Van" Jones, a man now in the vanguard of the movement to build a future green economy, creating millions of jobs, solving environmental problems and reducing climate change at a stroke. It is a beguiling vision and one that Jones conceived in the northern Californian city of Oakland. He began political life as an anti-poverty campaigner, but gradually combined that with environmentalism, believing that greening the economy could also revitalise it and lift up the poor. He founded Green for All as an advocacy group and published a best-selling book, The Green Collar Economy. Then Obama came to power and Jones got the call from the White House. In just a few years, his ideas had spread from the streets of Oakland to White House policy papers. Jones was later ousted from his role, but his ideas remain. Green jobs are at the forefront of Obama's ideas on both the economy and the environment. Jones believes California will once more change itself, and then change the nation. "California remains a beacon of hope… This is a new time for a new direction to grow a new society and a new economy," Jones has said. It is already happening. California may have sprawling development and awful smog, but it leads the way in environmental issues. Arnold Schwarzenegger was seen as a leading light, taking the state far ahead of the federal government on eco-issues. The number of solar panels in the state has risen from 500 a decade ago to more than 50,000 now. California generates twice as much energy from solar power as all the other US states combined. Its own government is starting to turn on the reckless sprawl that has marked the state's development. California's attorney-general, Jerry Brown, recently sued one county government for not paying enough attention to global warming when it came to urban planning. Even those, like Kotkin, who are sceptical about the end of suburbia, think California will develop a new model for modern living: comfortable, yes, but more modest and eco-friendly. Kotkin, who is writing an eagerly anticipated book about what America will look like in 2050, thinks much of it will still resemble the bedrock of the Californian dream: sturdy, wholesome suburbs for all – just done more responsibly. "We will still live in suburbs. You work with the society you have got. The question is how we make them more sustainable," he says. Even the way America eats is being changed in California. Every freeway may be lined with fast-food outlets, but California is also the state of Alice Waters, the guru of the slow-food movement, who inspired Michelle Obama to plant a vegetable garden in the White House. She thinks the state is changing its values. "The crisis is bringing us back to our senses. We had adopted a fast and easy way of living, but we are moving away from that now," she says. There is hope in politics, too. There is a growing movement to call for a constitutional convention that could redraw the way the state is governed. It could change how the state passes budgets and make the political system more open, recreating the lost middle ground. Recently, the powerful mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa, signed on to the idea. Gerrymandering, too, is set to take a hit. Next year Schwarzenegger will take steps to redraw some districts to make them more competitive, breaking the stranglehold of party politics. He wants district boundaries to be drawn up by impartial judges, not politicians. In previous times that would have been the equivalent of a turkey voting for Christmas. But now the bold move is seen for what it is: a necessary step to change things. And there is no denying that innovation is something that California does well. Even in the most deprived corners of the state there is a sense that things can still turn around. California has always been able to reinvent itself, and some of its most hardcore critics still like the idea of it having a "dream". "I believe in California. It pains me at the moment to see it where it is, but I still believe in it," said Michael Levine. Perhaps more surprisingly, a fellow believer is to be found in Mendota in the shape of Joseph Riofrio. His shop operates as a sort of informal meeting place for the town. People drop in to chat, to get advice, or to buy a cold soft drink to relieve the unrelenting heat outside. The people are poor, many of them out of work, often hiring a bunch of DVDs as a cheap way of passing the time. But Riofrio sees them as a community, one that he grew up in. He is proud of his town and determined to stick it out. "This is a good place to live," he says. "I want to be here when it turns around." He is talking of the stricken town outside. But he could be describing the whole state. • This article was amended on 5 October 2009 because we inadvertently referred to the historian, Kevin Starr, as Kenneth.quote> Article

You're not understanding the point. They wouldn't pay to leave. They would be contributing financially, even if just part for the trade area, like Norway, only given our larger market and population, we would be paying more than Norway...a lot more. Also....the UK Parliament, like almost every other European member state parliament has already ratified the Treaty, so you can hardly blame Ireland.

What makes you think that the UK would benefit from leaving the EU and wishing to join the Free Trade Area? You are aware that Norway is one such member, although they need to conform to rules dictated by Brussels and pay millions in contributions, Further to that, as non-EU members, they get absolutely none of that money returned. The UK would still have to make a contribution, in the billions, and they will get absolutely nothing whatsoever in return. Norway frustrated over relationship with EU EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS – Non-EU member Norway is growing increasingly frustrated over its lack of influence over Brussels' decision making process, an internal document shows. Oslo's interests are getting harder to defend, as the EU is expanding its competences beyond what the initial terms of the agreement regulating Norway's participation to the bloc's internal market covered, an internal note of the Norwegian ambassador in Brussels, obtained by Aftenposten, says.quote>

I welcome the lower dollar. Means I get my goods for cheaper when I buy online The dollar has been an unstable currency for a long time it's not accurate to blame it solely on Obama and the Fed. Foreigners no longer value the currency as they once did. they don't trust it either.

Always forget to do that, link added

Originally posted by: Merlin of Flyote Certainly is difficult to guess what the outcome may be. However a large group of tories would be happy to leave the EU as is, and remember that in the euro elections UKIP took second place and they are definitely for leaving the EU. The tories would like to take the UKIP vote, but they can only do that by promissing a referenda no matter what.quote> The Conservatives will not risk it. European nations will call their bluff and will prevent any change to membership. The result will be a vote on British membership and like the last one, people will vote to stay in the EU. Such debate would also end a tory government, the divisions caused massive instability in the last tory government. It will happen again.