Testing Zoom Crash Issue

[tchaos713 5]

The Stats and Values Pack from T Wrecks can be very helpful in correcting bad mods.  It can be found here.  I keep hoping another one will come along....

[Alkaola 18]

suddenly the crashes came back... after a week of crashless playing ( godlike)

same problem is here now ... i just can't play a city...

I think it has to do with specefic buildings that grow in the city ... those buildings got props and those props are conflicting with others

very annoying .. have no idea what to do next

[MatrixDJ 5]

Welcome to the second page everybody!!!

Alkaola - Try removing one at a time the custom building that have been growing in your city. I would recommend keeping a simple log of what you have deleted and removed from you plugins folder so you can back track and/or reinstall the BATs that are causing the problems.

~MatrixDJ

[BarbyW 40]

Normally if a model is missing the Plugin xxxxx missing message is displayed. If props are missing you would not normally get a message. Crashes are so difficult to track down and are usually the result of removing a lot/BAT that has grown or changing the stats before bulldozing existing lots in a city. I had a BTD today with a very much reduced plugin folder while testing out some new lots. They should not have caused it and I re entered the city with exactly the same set up and had no further crashes. The BTD happened as usual when I was zooming out and also scrolling across the screen. Very odd and no reasonable explanation.

[MatrixDJ 5]

BarbyW - What do you mean my BTD?

[BarbyW 40]

Sorry Back to Desktop - crashed out:-( I have noticed that if I zoom out and don't wait for the screen to refresh it can crash out. It seems as though the game needs the time to redraw the graphics before allowing another zoom or scrolling.

[Alkaola 18]

Hey all....after long searching i finally found the new crashproblem

This time the problem was caused in the ''Simgoober'' folder .... i searched hours for the annoying crasher .. after i found him and removed  (3 folders)

''Legacy''

''Mansions''

''Mathew Keenan''

those things have been put out of my plugin folder and the crashproblem was gone...

but another problem occured ... when i play the game now ALL default simcity civics are showing blank lots without the buildings on it ...

Here a pic so you can see what i mean

[BarbyW 40]

Well I have all three of those sets in my plugins and no problems with crashing. The only ones I had had were as I said above when I was zooming out without waiting for the graphics to update.

[Alkaola 18]

yes same problem here. ... but the crash problem aren't caused by specefic buildings

no .... it happens when props or other downloads conflict with each other ... because i had no problems for weeks in a city and a few days ago suddenly those crashes again..

the reason why it happens is that your city is growing and growing ....

more and more downloaded buildings are popping up...........

suddenly you got a certain number of potential crashdownloads in your city .... and those conflict with each other ...

then it happens

[Tidalpool 0]

A litte survey: So when you crash is it back to the desk top or does your system do a reboot? Most of the time my crashes end up knocking my system down ends up rebooting it self.

[BarbyW 40]

I haven't had a reboot crash. All mine have been just back to desktop.

[MatrixDJ 5]

Tidalpool - My crashes are always to the desktop

Alkaola - make sure you did not remove any dat files when you removed those SG BATs or LOTs.  Also you may want to ask SimGoober about this to see if he has a solution or information about this issue.

---

Hello all,

 

I have been talking to deadwoods about this issue and here is what he has to offer.  The first two paragraphs are an excellent observation and great knowledge to this thread. 

Originally emailed by: Deadwoods 

Props missing is different to textures missing. We're not 100% on the impact of missing props, but we suspect if a lot has been plopped or grown and it had props that the game was doing some calculations  on (like shadows if the props is set to "ground model"). I can't think of specific examples of duplicate props (i.e. downloading the BSC mega prop packs and not deleting older prop packs) causing problems. There have been issues with some of the CSX packs introducing extra lots that have caused probs.

But the only issue I'm aware of with textures is if a base texture is missing and you go into underground mode, the missing base texture comes up as blue.

Just be careful of "recommending to people to treat them with the same care as props.". Any advice needs to be given with regard to the audience that will receive it, and with ST we have a wildly varying set of people with different ages, skills levels and knowledge. Often advice, no matter how well-meaning, is misconstrued and snowballs. Advice such as "install X prop pack carefully in this particular situation" often leads to "don't install this persons stuff because it will cause your PC to crash".

As to the exception reports, no I don't know what the memory address refers to. I don't know of anyone, outside of Maxis, who knows the memory model the product uses.quote>

Take this information for what it is and use it to your needs.  This is also suggestive that props are our main problem here too.  Which seems right to me.  I would think SC would just use another texture, create a "brown box" is one is missing, or draw nothing at all.  Where as props would seem to have to be there as part of the BAT or LOT.  What I am saying is, in theory, that Simcity crashes because it can not find what it is looking for which throws and exception.

Will update files soon...

~MatixDJ

[BarbyW 40]

The brown box occurs if a model is missing but the lot is still in plugins. It has nothing to do with textures missing. I have been testing Pegasus' new MTP Mondo mod and was missing textures in the last set of lots. All that happened was either the underlying ground showed through or it was black. I had no crashes as part of that testing.

In my experience crashes occur either as a result of zooming and scrolling too quickly before the screen has had chance to redraw or if a lot has been modded badly or had some properties changed from an original. The last crashes I have had have been from the zooming problem. Prior to that it was with a lot that had been incorrectly modded although that crash resulted in not being able to go back into the city. I do security back ups of my cities on a regualr basis so was able to retrieve that one.

[Tidalpool 0]

My crashes are all but one from saving and it is a reboot crash, I can play, play I never know if it is gonna save or crash.   I have only one crash to the desk top.  It really limits the time I want to spend on SC4.  This is a good thread because it gets all to thinking about what is happening in our games

[BarbyW 40]

As an experiment, and also because I needed to remove some test lots before redoing them, I revisited all the cities in my new region and bulldozed the test lots and also a growable residential that didn't fit with the look that I am trying to get in this region. I then removed the folder for the unwanted residential out of my plugins. Then I went into another region that was very well developed to see if I would get a crash. I went into the large city that has nearly 400K population and where I knew I would have some of these houses. I had no crash and the lots where the house had grown were there but without the house. The props and textures were still showing, however. Later today I will remove one of the prop packs and see what happens without them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Thanks very much for conducting and continuing this research.  We get a lot of people with crashes, and you are all definitely increasing our knowledge base.

[Alkaola 18]

i'm playing crashless again

after taking such a long time i finally fixed the problem..... It was a problem in the simgoober map ... just 3 lots that conflict with each other .. i removed them and downloaded them again .. problem was fixed..

i just had so much lucky i looked in the simgoobermap .... because i didn't know where to search and i was about to give it up ... to give up simcity

so i temporarly removed the simgoober map and i got no crashes .. so i researched the map totally out with the good results...

i'm starting to understand the crash problem

[BarbyW 40]

Alkaola: I don't understand what you mean by "simgoobermap". Can you please explain?

[Tidalpool 0]

I too am playing crash free I know it may be for the moment! I must admit I did have several duplicate files. Not any longer. The only thing not right in my game at the moment is: the small Maxis plaza that when you ploped could have a fountain, sculpture, umbrella, it was very random now only has benches. I must of deleted a file by accident, but that is so small compared to game crashing all the time. If any one would have an idea what file I could be missing I would appreciate if you told me, but like I said no big deal. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and ideas they helped me to tackle my problem Yeah SimCity 4 is fun again.

Tidalpool

[Alkaola 18]

hey Barbyw.. .. well just a note before i try to explain myself

since a few hours i'm not playing crashfree anymore ... when i tried to plop a simgoober building it crashed again .... after that i tried to plop NDEX fishing harbour .. and yes it crashed..

i'm starting to freak out .. and i'm thinking of removing my whole fu*** plugin folder ...

anyway ...i played a week crashfree due removing of 3 simgoober buildings to answer your question Barbyw... i sorted the whole plugin thing out

i don't remember the names of the buildings but i think thats not relevant to report ....the thing is the crashes are coming back ... i really think it has to do with conflicts with downloaded BAT's/ Lots

it's back again ... and i don't know if i want to waste my time again to fix it for such a short time

[BarbyW 40]

I find your problems most odd, Alkaola, as I have all BSC/simgoober/CSX/NDEX lots plus other too numerous to mention and have only had crashes on zoom/scrolls. My Mira16 and the other region with the same map but different config all work fine. On the other hand I only plop parks, civic buildings etc and rewards. I have no other plops in my plugins.

[Alkaola 18]

@BarbyW

Hello Barby, i just played simcity crashless again for an hour BUT i temporarely removed the '' simgoober'' map ( with all his stuff in it )

and again there is something wrong in the map ....

So what should i do .. just remove the whole map and download it again ?

Maybe something interessting to know to solve the problem ; there are many older simgoober lots and BATs in my plugin folder ... many of these in my plugins

SG_CO$$

SG_LM

etc etc. ..

hmmm i need some help

[Tidalpool 0]

 F.Y.I. An update to my last message:  

The small Maxis plaza is working in my game.  When I started all the crashes I started a test city, and the plazas in that city are bench only.  Since I have been crash free I started a new city and the plazas are random again, umbrellas, sculptures, fountain, etc.  I think with all the crash problems something happened in that city and that has made the plazas act weird.   Can't explain but everything OK.  For me I am sure crashes were caused from duplicate files.  It was good to clean up everything.

Another update:  I went into my test city this morning and lo and behold the plazas were all OK, even the ones I had plopped and they were just benches, they had flower beds, sculptures, umbrellas, just like before the crashing problem so all is well for now.  Just thought I should update to keep the information flowing.  Hopefully we all can help with each others crashing problems, it is a lot more fun to build when you have confidence that it will be saved.

[Sam 163]

I just tried removing the three simgoober files that Alkaola mentioned, but it did not reduce the frequency of my BTD crashes. Last night I had six in an hour (with files in place), and I have had four this morning in 45 minutes (3 SG files removed). This frequency is not unusual for my game once the cities get bigger.

I suspect one factor at least is the number of props/lots/bats used in a city ie the total of all props/lots/bats used and the number of instances of each.

Edit: I just used DoubleKiller to get rid of 106 MB of duplicate files in my plugins folder , which was almost 8% of the total folder volume.  Normally I am careful to delete duplicates  especially if mentioned in a readme, but  I was a bit surprised by the number remaining. I also found a few that were not duplicate in name but were the same sizes and the contents when I checked them really were duplicated.

So far my game is not only loading a bit faster now, but is also saving faster. No crashes yet but I haven't really pushed it either.

Edit 2: Looks like I spoke too soon. Hello Desktop.

[Alkaola 18]

sam... it are not those 3 specefic buildings ... yes for me but my plugin folder is different than yours .... those 3 buildings in my pulgin folder occasionaly conflicted with each other ... but again in your case it can be totally different

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: Alkaola sam... it are not those 3 specefic buildings ... yes for me but my plugin folder is different than yours .... those 3 buildings in my pulgin folder occasionaly conflicted with each other ... but again in your case it can be totally differentquote>

I was hoping it might be the same for both of us and that it would be a quick test which is why I tried it first. Especially since many people would probably use the same plugins from the major creators. Unfortunately it didn't work., but I will keep trying other ideas since these crashes are starting to get very frustrating.

[will62russ 76]

I think I speak for many in the STEX community when saying I appreciate all of your time and energy in addressing this important issue (Crashes) which I feel could threaten the future of STEX. 

I do not feel I'm being overly dramatic here.  I spent a better part of the last 2 months developing one of my large regions on the map.  In developing this region I was strategic in placing buildings, lots, terrain, etc., such as an elaborate puzzle.   I was creative in the use of certain combinations of buildings to add character to the region. I thought "outside the box" in making  the infrastructure (roads, rails, rivers, ped walkways) interacted with one another.  I personally believed I was creating a work of art more so than just playing a game, which I believe is the ultimate purpose of Simcity.   This was my masterpiece that I hoped to show off.

Then on 4-15-06 I tried to re-enter the same region which had become my temporary home while on the computer during the last 2 months.  However, instead of getting a familiar detailed picture of a building, street, park,  I was suddenly knocked out of the game.  My initial reaction was to stare at the computer for several moments thinking "this could not be happening".  But it did happen and still does.  I did perform some initial attempts to remedy the problem but all efforts were futile.  As a consolation, I now get to stare at the same region (my ultimate creation) but never to enter it or mold it again. 

Should I wash the canvas clean and put forth another valiant effort?  I'm not sure.  In fact, I have lost faith that I can ever start something on Simcity and see a final creation.  In the back of my mind I will always wonder if this is the day, the momemt, that I left click the mouse just to stare in disbelief again.  In addition, like many of us, I do not have the time to constantly analyze every download, dependency, readme file in order for this thing to work.  

In short, I personally feel SimCity, Simtropolis, STEX needs to address the integrity issues adversely impacting this game/product for I see the matter only getting worse for the SimCity community instead of getter better.  As each day rolls by every new addition to the STEX will only add to the complexity of managing the individual pieces of this huge puzzle making sure they compliment one another instead of conflicting each other.

For me I think maybe I should take an extended break from SimCity and spend a little more time with the family and maybe get back to reading some good books that have been collecting dust on my shelves.     

[MatrixDJ 5]

Hello Everybody,

Sorry I have been MIA for a little while, it has been a crazy couple of weeks with work and some of my side projects and personal life on top of that... I really have not had much time to work on this recently but that should change very soon.  I will be working on completing my portion of this test within two weeks and hopefully have some results.

I will also be posting a new thread related to this on the crash reports and what the memory addresses are pointing to and hopefully somebody knows how this works or knows how to find out...

Talk more soon,

~MatrixDJ

[Kgol 0]

After reading all of this and doing several experiments on my own, I have come to the conclusion that the plugins really are not the problem with the "zoom" crash.  I have about 300 plugin's, mostly simggober and NDEX because they are the only ones I realy trust.  I am very careful to not have duplicate files and have scanned my plugins file many times.
The problem persists and gets worse as a city grows.  If I take my time and don't spin my zoom wheel more than one click, it seems to help.  Also, if I zoom and wait for the game to redraw without trying to scroll .... this also seems to help.  It does not fix the problem, but it makes the game more playable.  
In sum, this game issue has persisted since I first started playing sim city more than three years ago.  With  or without plugins, I get the "zoom crash".  My computer is a monster, (don't mean to brag....lol) and I have no issues with any other games; even huge games like Oblivion play wonderfully.  
I am sure this is a game error not a plugin issue.
Just my humble opinion.

[BarbyW 40]

Zooming and scrolling do seem to be the most common of my crash problems. I have a number of playing/lotmaking configurations using Start Up Manager and have even had crashes with no custom stuff in at all. Providing I don't zoom to quickly or zoom and scroll I can play for several hours with a lot of custom plugins. If I zoom and scroll too quickly I can be thrown out even without any custom stuff. I tend to agree with Kgol that it is a game error not a plugin one.