God mode water mod

[ldvger 19]

Hello!

This game really lacks a good above sea level God Mode tool, in my opinion, and I would like to figure out how to develope one.  I know zero about the interior mechanics of the game but am willing to learn. 

 

I am inspired to think this tool is possible to create by Cycledogg's Columbus Terrian mod, which I use in all my cities.  It is a God Mode tool and replaces (I think) the default game God Mode tree function/brushes with a custom function/brush(es).  I have no idea how he accomplished this, but because he DID accomplish it, I can't help but think it would be possible to use a similar technique to create above sea level God Mode water: creeks, streams, lakes, waterfalls, etc. 

 

Does anyone have any interest in helping me with this little project?  Even directing me to a place to start would be helpful. 

 

Lora/LD

[+Guest]

such things such as god water doesn't exist, but there's some stuff on the STEX which makes up for this:

ploppable water to put anywhere: https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?mode=files&filetype=BAT&Str=plopable%20water

peg pond kit: https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?mode=files&filetype=all&category=default&sortby=DatePosted&show=12&Str=peg%20pond%20kit

peg stream kit: https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?mode=files&filetype=all&category=default&sortby=DatePosted&show=12&Str=peg%20stream%20kit

 

hope this helps

[ldvger 19]

tc13, I know that no such thing as above sea level God Mode water currently exists.  I want to make a mode that creates it. 

I am aware of and have used the major Mode surface water tools you suggest and, quite frankly, I am not happy with the way they look in the game.  That's why I'm trying to make a mod that will look less constructed and more natural. 

 

My purpose in posting here is to see if anyone more experienced than I am will give me some idea of where to start or even join me in my quest. 

 

Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

Lora/LD

[dedgren 830]

Lora-

Hi, couldn't help but be beguiled by your words on starting the quest for SC4 above sea level water.  Sort of like Frodo at Rivendell- I will take the ring to Mordor...but I do not know the way.

 

It's the Holy Grail you're seeking, kid.  Along with functional land bridges (game streets, highways, rail and roads over others of the same, all transit paths intact and working) the ability to model terrain conforming rivers and streams with game water is the great black hole of the SC4 universe.

 

Good stuff has been done with workarounds.  See this thread:  https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/view.asp?mode=viewtopic&topicID=67561&num=30&pageNo=1  

 

Anyway, I, for one, wish you luck.  Keep us posted.

 

 

D. Edgren

[+Guest]

that's another thing i was gonna put (but forgot to) it can't really be done the best so far of something like that is the rain water mod which loses the water once you return to the region, and i think there's something being done in the modding area about waterfalls

to answer the original question, it is near impossible to be done at the minute, but who knows in the future possibly?

[ldvger 19]

dedgren-

I like your reference to The Lord of the Rings, as I am a huge fan of both the books and the movie.  I've read the books at least 20 times over the past 35 years and my new personal Christmas traditional is to watch the entire movie, non-stop, start to finish, all 13 1/2 hours of it (director's cut version) on Christmas day.  Four days after my second annual visit to Middle Earth, all the images are still very strong in my mind.  Your comment about Frodo brought to mind this quote from the book (also used in the movie):

 

Certainly reminds me very much of Bilbo in the last years, before he went away. He used to say there was only one Road; that it was like a great river: its springs were at every doorstep and every path was its tributary. 'It's dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door,' he used to say.  'You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no way of knowing where you might be swept off to.'

 

My life has been a series of adventures because I enjoy that feeling of unknown that occurs with each waking day.  My entire life is the Road...and I have traveled down many a twisting path.  Part of my enjoyment of the series of SimCity games, from way back in the beginning, has been the multiple ways the game can be played.  Until very recently, I've stayed pretty much in the main stream, building cities.  But yes, I am getting a bit swept away by the idea of creating this new tool.

 

And, in case anyone misunderstands my incentive, I have a CJ in progress which needs this new tool I am committing myself to making (see it at Apocrypha in the CJ forum).  I am putting the CJ on hold while I figure out a way to create above sea level water. 

 

I have contacted a number of folks on the ST site, known modders all, and while they are not currently able to help me develope this mod, they have been very helpful in pointing me in a direction from where I can start.  I have downloaded and installed iLive's Reader and Tropod's Reader Beginner's Guide.  Over the next couple of days, I hope to begin decoding the mysteries of the internal workings of the game and so begin to hopefully start the process of figuring out this new tool I have in mind.

 

I am not in the least bit daunted by anyone telling me it can't be done.  The US Patent Office closed it's doors in 1897, under the rationale that everything that can be invented, HAS been invented.  Think about that for a few minutes.  In 1982, the then-president of IBM said there is no future in developing the personal computer.  Folks who accept assumed limits based on the knowledge currently at hand seem to me to lack imagination (just an opinion, folks).  There are others, and I believe a large majority of the folks who visit this site are among them, who do not accept limits as cast in stone.  Many of the custom content tools many of us enjoy using in our game play were developed in the face of long odds against thier success.  The process of cracking open the internal codes that control the game is ongoing and because of that, each new mod builds on the discoveries of the ones before it.  The game has been in the hands of the general public now for long enough that I am confident 90% of what needs to be known to create an above sea level water tool is already known.  How to USE that found knowledge is part of the challenge, as is discovering the 10% that is still unknown. 

 

I don't really want to undertake this task all by myself, but if I have to, I will.  I am hoping this forum will draw enough curious folks that maybe eventually a team may be able to be assembled.  I am not underestimating the complexity of the task.  It makes me tired just thinking about it...but, I've been playing this games for almost 15 years now, through all iterations from SimCity Classic to SC4RH and there is no other game that has held my attention as this one has. 

 

It will probably hold my attention for another 15 years, should EA/Maxis decide to keep it going. 

 

If you have ANY interest in using a tool such as I have described, and maybe have a teensy bit of time to work on developing it, let me know, please.  I don't care what your level of game or computer knowledge is...we can learn together.

 

Lora/LD

[toxicpiano 125]

there is mod for it. http://www.teirusu.com/

teirusu found it, it was originally hidden in the game, and is an incomplete tool made by maxis, however whatever water you create will disapear when you save. its called the rain mod, scroll down the page for it.

[Karybdis 34]

Above ground water: Unfortunately what's always been killing us is the ability to tell this stuff to save. As far as we know that's in the exe and is unaccessible. completely =\

the above mentioned mod will give you the best we could do though. possibly if we get an effect editor working, this could be improved though I'm not sure how

 

Waterfalls and Rapids: see the Waterfall thread in R&D where the discussion on that is happening (in theory)

[vester_DK 477]

Maybe you can work on new texture for the problable water.

[ldvger 19]

Hello folks!

Good to see some discussion going....a meeting of the minds, so to speak.

 

I have downloaded the rain mod but have not used it.  Is it a Major Mode tool or a God Mode tool?  I don't remember.  But, as I recall, it only makes standing water, not running water.  And, it makes sense in some ways that the effect can't be saved, as in RL rain water dries up after it stops raining.  Still, this may be a worthwile avenue to follow up on. 

 

Making new textures for the plopable water isn't really on my agenda.  However, I can see how one may be able to create the effect of a natural watercourse by creating a really huge set of Mayor Mode tools.  Still, textures for a God Mode water tool will be one of the many challenges that will have to be overcome.  Hopefully, if I/we can assemble a team, one of the team members will be a textures specialist.

 

Another specialist we'll need is an animator, as running water...runs.  PEG has been able to create some animations for his waterfalls, but I'm not sure if his streams are animated.  Larger above sea level bodies of water, like lakes, also have some minor wave action.  Running water foams up around objects in it's way, so creating whitewater for rapids will be another challenge, both textures and animation.

 

Karybdis, welcome!  I have read some of your posts about modding over in the R&D forum and know you and others are working hard to decode a lot of the game code.  Seems to me a monumental task, reminds me kinda of decoding the human DNA genomes.  I think the work you and your fellow modders are doing is going to turn out to be very powerful in terms of empowering SC fans with an interest in customizing thier games. 

 

I have read and been following the Waterfalls and Rapids thread, and in fact posted my own reply over there a couple of days ago.  I also wrote to the Board Moderators of both this Forum and the R&D forum, asking them which they felt would be most appropriate for me to explore this idea of mine on, and they both suggested the Open Discussion forum for the time being.

 

It's interesting that getting the rain water to save is such a problem, when saving other (custom) elements of the game isn't.  I wonder what is in the rain tool, in it's coding, that triggers a do not save somewhere else in the game?  How was Cycledogg able to circumvent this with his God Mode Columbus Terrain Mode?  How was Tropod able to create completely new Gode Mode tools that ARE savable? 

 

As for editing the .exe file, it has to be possible, given the right tools.  How else would hackers create virus .exe files?  Or, for that matter, how could professional game developers do thier work, if they couldn't open an .exe file (say, to de-bug)?  Not that I think, at this point in time, that it will be necessary to edit the .exe game files, because I don't.  Still, it isn't logical that the .exe file would be uneditable.  Hard to open and edit, yes, even password protected, yes.  Perhaps it can only be opened using proprietary software, which wouldn't surprise me.  Game designers and developers would want to protect the deepest inner workings of thier games for any number of reasons, primary among them, I am sure, is to keep gaming fans from inadvertently making thier game unplayable, as well as preventing theft of copyright protected coding. 

 

I am hoping you will revisit this thread, Karybdis, as I have a question for you (being the deep delver into game code you seem to be).  Is there a way to distinguish the God Mode tools from the Mayor Mode tools by the way they are coded?  Actually, anyone who may know the answer to this is welcome to reply...

 

Lora/LD 

[toxicpiano 125]

Date: 12/31/2005 3:32:41 AM Author: ldvger

Hello folks!

Good to see some discussion going....a meeting of the minds, so to speak.

I have downloaded the rain mod but have not used it.  Is it a Major Mode tool or a God Mode tool?  I don't remember.  But, as I recall, it only makes standing water, not running water.  And, it makes sense in some ways that the effect can't be saved, as in RL rain water dries up after it stops raining.  Still, this may be a worthwile avenue to follow up on. 

Making new textures for the plopable water isn't really on my agenda.  However, I can see how one may be able to create the effect of a natural watercourse by creating a really huge set of Mayor Mode tools.  Still, textures for a God Mode water tool will be one of the many challenges that will have to be overcome.  Hopefully, if I/we can assemble a team, one of the team members will be a textures 'specialist'.

Another specialist we'll need is an animator, as running water...runs.  PEG has been able to create some animations for his waterfalls, but I'm not sure if his streams are animated.  Larger above sea level bodies of water, like lakes, also have some minor wave action.  Running water foams up around objects in it's way, so creating whitewater for rapids will be another challenge, both textures and animation.

Karybdis, welcome!  I have read some of your posts about modding over in the R&D forum and know you and others are working hard to 'decode' a lot of the game code.  Seems to me a monumental task, reminds me kinda of decoding the human DNA genomes.  I think the work you and your fellow modders are doing is going to turn out to be very powerful in terms of empowering SC fans with an interest in customizing thier games. 

I have read and been following the Waterfalls and Rapids thread, and in fact posted my own reply over there a couple of days ago.  I also wrote to the Board Moderators of both this Forum and the R&D forum, asking them which they felt would be most appropriate for me to explore this idea of mine on, and they both suggested the Open Discussion forum for the time being.

It's interesting that getting the rain water to save is such a problem, when saving other (custom) elements of the game isn't.  I wonder what is in the rain tool, in it's coding, that triggers a 'do not save' somewhere else in the game?  How was Cycledogg able to circumvent this with his God Mode Columbus Terrain Mode?  How was Tropod able to create completely new Gode Mode tools that ARE savable? 

As for editing the .exe file, it has to be possible, given the right tools.  How else would hackers create virus .exe files?  Or, for that matter, how could professional game developers do thier work, if they couldn't open an .exe file (say, to de-bug)?  Not that I think, at this point in time, that it will be necessary to edit the .exe game files, because I don't.  Still, it isn't logical that the .exe file would be uneditable.  Hard to open and edit, yes, even password protected, yes.  Perhaps it can only be opened using proprietary software, which wouldn't surprise me.  Game designers and developers would want to protect the deepest inner workings of thier games for any number of reasons, primary among them, I am sure, is to keep gaming fans from inadvertently making thier game unplayable, as well as preventing theft of copyright protected coding. 

I am hoping you will revisit this thread, Karybdis, as I have a question for you (being the deep delver into game code you seem to be).  Is there a way to distinguish the God Mode tools from the Mayor Mode tools by the way they are coded?  Actually, anyone who may know the answer to this is welcome to reply...

Lora/LD

quote>

1its in god mode.

2 the reason that cycledogs terrain mod and all the other terrain mods save are because they, skin if you like, they are not 3d, they are basically bitmaps/pngs that are put into a DAT and hexed. no more, no less. The rain mod is very different, the reason being that it is not a set of bitmaps designed to change a skin. Although you can change the skin of the water, i think the water is a 3d element. I mean lets think about this, its not even animated. Its just got a few effects as waves.

3 I think you could only have a few basic water effects like the ones now, as otherwise, although im running a good spec rig, some others may get lag.

[ldvger 19]

Toxicpiano, you bring up some new, interesting, and valid points.

I worry, too, about animating water for fear of overloading lower end computers or causing lag in the game.  Maybe just adding random sparkles and/or brief white light streaks will suffice and not slow the game, I don't know.  It's true that the sea water animations are very minimal, mostly just sparkles and a little mild wave action at the shore lines.  I had never considered the effect a more animated ocean would have...now I better understand why there are no tides (can you imagine the game engine that would be required to create tides?) and nothing more than gently lapping waves. 

 

I have to admit I don't fully understand why any tool in God Mode would be intrinsically different from tools in Mayor Mode.  If anything, it seems to me Mayor Mode tools would be MORE complex than God Mode tools, as none of the God Mode tools appear to have the interaction(s) within the game engine and/or other aspects of the game that the Major Mode tools do.  There is no financial impact to God Mode tools, nor city growth implications (other than possibly creating an unbuildable terrain).  In short, God Mode tools seem to me to be simpler in concept than Mayor Mode tools, so why shouldn't they be able to saved into the game the same as Mayor Mode tools?  I may sound like a newborn idiot to folks who know more about the inner workings of the game than I do, but this seems to me basic logic (saving God Mode work, not my being an idiot, hahahaha). 

 

And, I guess I don't know enough about creating new tools to understand the difference between 2D and 3D imaging, as it relates to the game, and especially God Mode tools.  It seems to me ALL game images are 2D, which is why we are all limited to 4 views of any particluar tile (or region) of the game.  If there were any true 3D imaging capabilities in this game, we would all be able to pan and zoom in and out, 360 degrees, up and down.  But we can't.  This 3D feature exists in many games I own and play, but with SC we are limited to 4 compass points of view and only one angle of overhead view.  It seems to me that all games images are presented in what I think is called an orthangonal view or bird's eye view.  We are always in the air above the game playing surface.  Life in an airplane.

 

Besides which, I don't think the water tool I am proposing would have to be 3D in order to be natural-looking, easy-to-use, and functional in the game. 

 

So, probably because I don't yet know/understand enough of how game images are created and displayed, I don't see the connection between 2D/3D images, God Mode/Mayor Mode, and saving/not being able to save. 

 

<<I mean lets think about this>>

 

That's what we're doing...thinking out loud. 

 

Good points, Toxicpiano...keep'em coming!

 

Lora/LD