Don't text and walk. It's a crime now.

[Zelgadis 638]

Yeah right.

Seems kind of perverse, no? Given how many drivers get off after practically committing vehicular homicide even if at fault, I'm in doubt that this is a substantial problem.

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction. There are places that have laws that make it next to impossible to prove a pedestrian at fault.

[Duke87 1,070]

Begging to differ, as a passive walker, you are a danger to drivers in some jurisdictions. Not that you are likely to injure a driver if you mosey into the street right in front of a car, but in many jurisdictions, the driver is always at fault in a car/pedestrian accident. In short, dead or severely injured jackass texter, driver in prison. Not to mention what happens to everyone's insurance rates.

Then the solution is to amend the law so that if you get hit while texting, you are at fault, not to amend the law so that texting and walking is a crime. Of course, the latter results in more revenue and the former does not, So guess which gets chosen.

[dazza262 133]

Begging to differ, as a passive walker, you are a danger to drivers in some jurisdictions. Not that you are likely to injure a driver if you mosey into the street right in front of a car, but in many jurisdictions, the driver is always at fault in a car/pedestrian accident. In short, dead or severely injured jackass texter, driver in prison. Not to mention what happens to everyone's insurance rates.

Not to mention the emotional trauma the driver will go through.

Then the solution is to amend the law so that if you get hit while texting, you are at fault, not to amend the law so that texting and walking is a crime. Of course, the latter results in more revenue and the former does not, So guess which gets chosen.

Couldn't agree more.

  Edited May 19, 2012 by dazza262  

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Yeah right.

Seems kind of perverse, no? Given how many drivers get off after practically committing vehicular homicide even if at fault, I'm in doubt that this is a substantial problem.

Again, it depends on the jurisdiction. There are places that have laws that make it next to impossible to prove a pedestrian at fault.

In Britain pedestrians have the right of way, drivers have to avoid them. You should expect that the pedestrian will step off the pavement onto the road and drive accordingly. That's the reason for a 30mph limit in built up areas.

Talking of quiet vehicles in the old days trolleybuses were a problem as pedestrians sometimes used to step off the pavement in front of them because they didn't hear them.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Good point. Except for tire noise, electric vehicles are silent. Maybe it is time to make drivers totally responsible for pedestrians, and slam some of the drivers in cities like New York, Montreal, and Toronto.

[dazza262 133]

Good point. Except for tire noise, electric vehicles are silent. Maybe it is time to make drivers totally responsible for pedestrians, and slam some of the drivers in cities like New York, Montreal, and Toronto.

With respect, that is a totally one-sided view.

Speaking as a professional driver (and sometime pedestrian), each situation should be looked at on it's own merit. If a pedestrian steps into a road with traffic travelling on it, why should it be down to the motorist to have to suddenly slam on the brakes, which could result in a traffic collision ?

Roads are there for a reason, ie to be driven on. In most places there will be ample safe places to cross a road, pedestrian crossings, underpasses etc. If not, then just be aware of your surroundings and stop, look and listen before crossing.

I'm not suggesting for one moment that drivers are without blame, driving too fast or without due care and attention is stupid and dangerous.

It is up to all of us to take responsibilty for our own actions. If somebody is at fault for an RTA, either driver or pedestrian, then as you say, they should be slammed.

Let's just be careful out there people.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

See how nicely taking a one sided position works in getting good arguments.

[dazza262 133]

See how nicely taking a one sided position works in getting good arguments.

Very true, but I prefer to call it debate

[Duke87 1,070]

The relationship between drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians in New York City is full of nuance. What must be understood is that the environment here, especially Manhattan, is too crowded for normal traffic rules to really work. If turning cars always yielded to pedestrians, they'd never be able to make their turn. If pedestrians always waited for an ideal clearing, they could be waiting a while. What you get instead is a sort of concrete jungle wildness where each party must assert their claim to the space like males asserting their claim to territory. People will advance, some will have to back down. There will be scuffles. But that's just how it is. As a pedestrian, don't be afraid to take several steps out into the street and then dash the rest of the way across the instant you get a chance. As a motorist, forget everything you were taught about defensive driving and be aggressive. It's a survival skill. Gently but firmly place yourself in front of people and cut them off, and learn to hug the bumper of the car in front of you to prevent others from doing the same to you. Drive around or between pedestrians rather than waiting for the crosswalk to clear. Ignore the sign that says "don't block the box".

So, with regards to New York City, there is no "drivers need to be held accountable for this" or "pedestrians need to be held accountable for that". The fact that many rules aren't enforced is vital to the city functioning.

  Edited May 21, 2012 by Duke87  

[dazza262 133]

The relationship between drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians in New York City is full of nuance. What must be understood is that the environment here, especially Manhattan, is too crowded for normal traffic rules to really work. If turning cars always yielded to pedestrians, they'd never be able to make their turn. If pedestrians always waited for an ideal clearing, they could be waiting a while. What you get instead is a sort of concrete jungle wildness where each party must assert their claim to the space like males asserting their claim to territory. People will advance, some will have to back down. There will be scuffles. But that's just how it is. As a pedestrian, don't be afraid to take several steps out into the street and then dash the rest of the way across the instant you get a chance. As a motorist, forget everything you were taught about defensive driving and be aggressive. It's a survival skill. Gently but firmly place yourself in front of people and cut them off, and learn to hug the bumper of the car in front of you to prevent others from doing the same to you. Drive around or between pedestrians rather than waiting for the crosswalk to clear. Ignore the sign that says "don't block the box".

So, with regards to New York City, there is no "drivers need to be held accountable for this" or "pedestrians need to be held accountable for that". The fact that many rules aren't enforced is vital to the city functioning.

Yeah and try doing all that while texting

[Silur 3,308]

And what about some crazy people in Underground (aka "Metro" in my city) ?

They can't see and hear nothing and anyone around ...

  Edited May 21, 2012 by Silur  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Further to the NYC mêlée: And you have bicycle messengers, especially in the Wall Street Area, who take no prisoners.

Has NYC ever considered making some of its worst streets into pedestrian malls? You get around on foot/bicycle faster than even in a New York Taxi.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I find this completely stupid either way.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Walking texters are simply babble addicts. They are sick, and there should be some kind of aversion therapy for them.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Aversion therapy would be ... Interesting...

[Duke87 1,070]

Has NYC ever considered making some of its worst streets into pedestrian malls?

It's already been done. Have you been to Times Square recently? There are no cars on Broadway between 42nd and 47th streets anymore. Just tourists gawking at the lights.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

"There's a Broken Heart for Every Light on Broadway".

[krbe 193]

Gently but firmly place yourself in front of people and cut them off, and learn to hug the bumper of the car in front of you to prevent others from doing the same to you. Drive around or between pedestrians rather than waiting for the crosswalk to clear. Ignore the sign that says "don't block the box".

So, with regards to New York City, there is no "drivers need to be held accountable for this" or "pedestrians need to be held accountable for that". The fact that many rules aren't enforced is vital to the city functioning.

Some cities in Europe has removed road markings, signs and traffic lights in order to get drivers and pedestrians to 'negotiate' their way around. I would certainly not mind more of that (notice how traffic always flow better when traffic lights are flashing yellow), especially since I have problems respecting pedestrian traffic lights anyway. There are problems relating to blind people though, but sound traffic lights should only be used in those cases.

[Duke87 1,070]

Some cities in Europe has removed road markings, signs and traffic lights in order to get drivers and pedestrians to 'negotiate' their way around. I would certainly not mind more of that (notice how traffic always flow better when traffic lights are flashing yellow), especially since I have problems respecting pedestrian traffic lights anyway.

It has been shown in many places that this sort of treatment actually increases safety. But it doesn't work if car traffic volumes are too high. And it also depends on people being courteous - something which New York City is not known for. Besides, if there are no rules to violate, there are no tickets for the cops to write - so you'll never see it here.

[krbe 193]

The worst isn't traffic volume in my experience, but vehicle speed; the volume on the main road where I live now isn't that big, but its speed limit doesn't make for much 'negotiation' so crossing the road always happens when the cars have passed (as opposed to when the cars pass). There are no zebra stripes and other, more high volume crossing points are pedestrian underpasses instead.

Besides, the law regulating traffic stipulates that everyone is to conduct their business in a considerate and respectful manner, but that might of course be matter of interpretation New Yorkers won't stand for.

  Edited May 25, 2012 by krbe