People Power Shakes The Arab World!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I still say "No-fly Zone", especially given the current bombings by Qwackdaffi (I've disliked this bugger since Junior High). He needs to leave, and take his capes with him.

Barbarossa

It is a good idea, but how would you enforce it? The UN would have to pass a resolution, then they would have to find someone with an aircraft carrier in the Med. Anyone know where Ark Royal is right now?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Thought they ( the USA ) already sent a task force last week?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Thought they ( the USA ) already sent a task force last week?

See my post in World Affairs. I think the Libyan civil war belongs there. We shouldn't let that one issue hi-jack this thread away from the general freedom movement in the Arab world just because most of the world press is concentrating there at the moment. there is still a set of flaps going on in other middle eastern states.

[CO2 59]

Security is stable, yes some distrubs happened before, as a part of conspirecies, and also the absense of police for some time and etc...after ben ali left, wich in one day when people protested in the capital, people formed civil groups, to watch at night, to replace the police in the neighborhoods, so, security was brought back in two days, many many thiefs were cought, and many suspecious individuals, wich in neiborhoods we know each other so we know when someone is not from around, and etc...

In Tunisia after Ben Ali was out, their was many conspirecies, to try to make the revolution fail, starting from the first day when the prime minister braked the law and became a temporary presedent, people protested, so mebazae became the presedent and him back to prime minister, mohamed ghanouchi and later, by puting many corrupted people in the new 3 goverments, and protestations, intill ghanouchi, the later prime minister, resigned, after more protestations calling him to leave, because people saw how the media started to go back as it was, when mohamed ghanouchi was the primie minister,some rioters tryed to make problems, there was tryes to turn tunisia into an iraq 2, france brought her ambassador in iraq, and puted him in tunisia, without asking the new goverment, just puted him as if tunisia was it's own disctict, the ambassador said tunisia will be an iraq 2, that got a big refuse by the people, and when he came, a priest was murdered, and on tv they said, a fanatical terrorist killed him, while, he's just murdered, or just because he's a priest that means "terrorists" killed him or something, that's a try to make problems, as relegion ones or something, because also, there was a protestation saying hate words infront of a synagoge, wich bytheway, tunisia's islamists condamned that job alot, anyway, as a p.s., in islam, you HAVE to respect the other relegions and not to force anything on anyone, just a p.s. if you think it's islam's fault or something, idk, but that's what they wanted us to think, and a historical mosque in djerba, the island where there's alot of jews, was bulldozed, and attacked by destroying the windows at night by some people, 300 years old mosque, you see the plan? they wanted to divide the tunisian people, wich never worked, people protested against those things, and went to the church of the priest to put flowers, and protested to kick france ambassador, and etc.. what made france, say that it's sorry by her ambassador, on tunisia's national tv, and etc... in other words, they were kinda bagging to leave him, anyway idk where is now, he became like, desepeared, also, tunisia revolution, caused to kick the french minister aliot marie that propsed to send police forces to tunisia to help ben ali, andsaid the same about egypte, and mexico (that the mexican ambassador their, when she said that, left the place with no word, and ignored her), so, there was consperecies both internal and external, anyway non worked infact, failed a big failure.

now talking about tunisia's future, the current new prime minsiter, kaed sebsi, have the people trust, but that doesnt mean people will close their eyes and let him do whatever he wants anyway, we are following every thing that goes on, there was a try to see the people polse, by puting some mairs who are previouslyfrom RCD, so people threatened by going on another big protestation on the capital to remove them, so they removed them, i think, a thought, an opinion, that it was a way to see the people polse and etc...

the current presedent, wich he's not official effcorse, is just passing he's last happy days before he get judged when he finishes he's duty, and when the real goverment is elected, he's just a dall, a decoration way so the country don't stay with no presedent, means, politcly empty or something like that.

anyway, there are big possibilities, that the new official goverment will be a parlimentary one, since all people want that, and about the future politics of tunisia, i think it's heading into becoming islamist, not totally, since it's parlimentary, anyway, don't freak out, islamists, doesnt mean, somehow, fanatic or something idk, but means, well, all the democracy pack and etc... but with respect to the relegions, and to islam too, and to give importance to it as it is a part of people's life, anyway, even according to islam, wich i may suppose you will say that islam says kill everyone who is against or something, on the contrary in islam you must never force anytthing on anyone, you have the right to tell him and try to convince by talking,and the rest (when it's about faith and relegion and etc...) is between that person and he's god, and effcorse the freedom of choosing the relegion, the freedom to do whatever, and etc...

so don't freak out, anyway, if you are thinking about sharia laws, no it wan't happen, even that the real sharia law, is he most fair one, wich the real sharia law no don't exist today whatever you say, because it's too fair and too much detailed to be applied easilly, like, if someone stole, because he was hungry, or very poor and couldnt get that,or stealed to live, he wan't get punished, but onthecontrary, helped, and if someone cought him, that person is who will be punished, by giving money to that guy who stealed, because he was very poor, and he needed to steal, he was poor, etc... blablablabla, if you want to know about it ask, but this is off-topic from the off-topic maybe another time, conclusion, no, no sharia laws, and the next governing system, is effcorse democratic, with respect to islam and relegions, and etc... that's islamists, not fanatical one, however, people who seems to be, going fanatical or something, are also followed, just in case.

so, i'm saying, some trusted parties, who are islamist, and others not, who said their goals, and etc...and the islamists parties were rained by questions, and the answers were, democratic, there's an islamist pary, that who are in it were previously from RCD party, the previous ruling party, called, the liberation party, al tahrir, who are hated, in an interview, they asked them about what about the other parties who will be under your rule, they answered, they will not accept any one who is against and blabla, and from then, they are attacked by the public opinion, just explaining, that tunisia, will not, become in any any any way, dictatorship again, neither fanatical, wich Tunisia, never, EVER, been fanatical, or extremists, or intolerant, a 3000 years old history, and never ever was.

the islamic i was talking about, means, a goverment that respect islam and the relegions as a part of people's life,and respect the society morals, that's it, unlike the previous dictatorship, who go to the mosque to pray everyday, some are puted in jail, some are threatened as being "terrorist" just because they pray, hijab was once illigal, they couldnt make it iiligal, many women puted in jail, or hited, because they refused to remove their hijab, the media started to break the people's morals by starting to inject the culture, or, "sex" out of marriage, anyway a sexual culture, besides stealing, torturing, cencoring, no freedom of speech, if i was in ben ali age, and i said all this, now i would be already dead! or, being tortured in some secret prisons underground

so Tunisia is pretty much becoming like Turkey, well, like, not Turkey, all this talking about, islamist and etc etc...may make you think, that that means, somehow, force some kind of clothes on women, and make men and women unecaul (wich it's not really islamic, if you may see in some countries today like in saudi arabia, it's also, some other type of dictatorship and etc..and, unconcious dictatorship, for example niqab is not from islam, it's rather formed in a time in saudi culture or something, anyway i'm totally agains niqab or unecaultiy )

===>yes tunisia will be democratic, just explaining the "islamic" thing

as for the trusted names, there is actually, like kaed sebsy, the current prime minister, rached ghanouchi, trusted by big percentage of people, he's democratic islamist, if you notice i said democratic islamists, because some dictators, do their dictatorship and etc... and say it's "islamic" wich i have no idea how it is islamic, anway, rached ghanouchi, is not going into politics, he just came home, to live as a normal people, but still he can give he's opinions and etc... he's party, wrote aloot of books, abou islam and the goverment and the people, and about illumunation, and tolerance, and etc... personally, i don't know the names, and the elections still not now, we still don't know the parties good ennuf to trust or trust not, anyway there are many parties that are trusted, that it's members are previously from RCD, the previous ruling party, including that, dictatorship party al tahrir.

there's not much names for now, but the new goverment may be parlimentary, we may not trust the parties, but that doesnt mean we don't, i mean, we do trust some, wich doesnt mean that after electing them, or before, we will close our eyes and ears and everything and turn to be ignorant, anyway, tunisia will never go back to the dictatorship point, we are now following each move that is done in politics, like threatening the current goverment (that we trust) to protest again if they didnt do that, go back up you'll see i talked about it

the trusted parties, anyway, i'm not sure about their names, there are about 40 party, i wasnt following the parties these days, but things are going great, there's no going back

maybe i didnt say all, or something, so pleas ask

on the other hand, it seems egypte revolution is not goin so well, i mean, it's not even usa's interests that egypte becomes totally free, and so, strong, they are 80 million population! anyway, things will get better, like security by time, and courts and judging, justice, no more corruption, and etc...

anyway, i did talked about the islamic thing and whatever, just for clearing it up, because i can't say the islamist party without explaining it's situation to you, because when i say it, it's like saying, an extreme party or something like that

  Edited March 15, 2011 by CO2  

[CO2 59]

about libya, as libyans them selves, i refuse usa intervention in anyway, but i do agree on the no flying decision, but i will stay mutual since i don't think usa intervention is a good idea, yet no flying thing, is very important, anyway, since the arab countries agreed on that, while tunisia stayed mutual, gadhafi will consider the arab countries as ennemies, and i'm affraid of what may happen, esspecially toward tunisia, last two weeks, two libayns jets of gadhafi's, stayed in tunisia's air for two hours, and another time, a jet too for a while and left, he was trying to provke something, but we aren't in a situation to say anything, anyway it will not happen in anyway, i mean, somekind of a war, anyway, no it's not going to happen, he can't even controll the situation their, the only thing that made him win TILL NOW, is the air force

about libya, as libyans them selves, i refuse usa intervention in anyway, but i do agree on the no flying decision, but i will stay mutual since i don't think usa intervention is a good idea, yet no flying thing, is very important, anyway, since the arab countries agreed on that, while tunisia stayed mutual, gadhafi will consider the arab countries as ennemies, and i'm affraid of what may happen, esspecially toward tunisia, last two weeks, two libayns jets of gadhafi's, stayed in tunisia's air for two hours, and another time, a jet too for a while and left, he was trying to provke something, but we aren't in a situation to say anything, anyway it will not happen in anyway, i mean, somekind of a war, anyway, no it's not going to happen, he can't even controll the situation their, the only thing that made him win TILL NOW, is the air force<br>

I still say "No-fly Zone", especially given the current bombings by Qwackdaffi (I've disliked this bugger since Junior High). He needs to leave, and take his capes with him.

Barbarossa

It is a good idea, but how would you enforce it? The UN would have to pass a resolution, then they would have to find someone with an aircraft carrier in the Med. Anyone know where Ark Royal is right now?

if anything flies with no certification, boom, that's how

[larelo6 3]

For your Information, CO2 is our new mate from Tunisia.

Thank you for your long post, dude! We really appreciate that!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

For your Information, CO2 is our new mate from Tunisia.

Thank you for your long post, dude! We really appreciate that!

Reports indicate the Saudis are shoring up some states with troops. The insurgency among the Arab states is now being met with deadly force. It appears that the old Sunni/Shi'a schism is rising up to engulf all this. It is time for the orthodox and the protestants to iron out their differences peacefully and to co-exist. Religious arguments are futile.

[CO2 59]

For your Information, CO2 is our new mate from Tunisia.

Thank you for your long post, dude! We really appreciate that!

Reports indicate the Saudis are shoring up some states with troops. The insurgency among the Arab states is now being met with deadly force. It appears that the old Sunni/Shi'a schism is rising up to engulf all this. It is time for the orthodox and the protestants to iron out their differences peacefully and to co-exist. Religious arguments are futile.

no there will be no relegion problem as long as it is democracy, anyway if it will, it wan't be serious and i don't know what is that "relegion" problem, because they are all from the same country, and they all fighted for it whatever is their differences

  Edited March 16, 2011 by CO2  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

For your Information, CO2 is our new mate from Tunisia.

Thank you for your long post, dude! We really appreciate that!

Reports indicate the Saudis are shoring up some states with troops. The insurgency among the Arab states is now being met with deadly force. It appears that the old Sunni/Shi'a schism is rising up to engulf all this. It is time for the orthodox and the protestants to iron out their differences peacefully and to co-exist. Religious arguments are futile.

no there will be no religion problem as long as it is democracy, anyway if it will, it won't be serious and i don't know what is that "relegion" problem, because they are all from the same country, and they all fighted for it whatever is their differences

It is good to have a report from Tunisia, but this thread is broader than that. Saudi Arabia is sending troop support to a Sunni dictator where the Shi'a majority has been downtrodden for some time (Yemen). Affairs in Libya are much worse (see the World Affairs thread on the Libran civil war.) The military powers in Egypt are tightening their grip. All is not a bed of roses in North Africa, and democracy is only a word. I suspect what most people want is food, shelter, employment, and peace: In two words economic freedom.

What is it your people really want? Do you really want that broken down old horse, democracy, or do you simply want economic freedom? A lot of opinion in the western 'democracies' is that it works, sort of, but you have to guard it jealously. Not all forms of democracy are the same. You have to choose a flavor, and having once done that, you have to make it work for you. There is a lot of work in front of you before you can say you have any freedoms or have a democracy.

Will you be able to create a non-sectarian state? Time will tell.

[CO2 59]

as for bahrain, no, not shiit majority or shiit people, and not sunni minority or, supporting sunni power, it's called, bahranian people, and the bahranian dictatorship goverment

oh bytheway, saudi arabia and sirya, also started to move, sirya is really starting, and yeman, still revolting, hope you didnt forget about it

and about egypre, yes sadly it seems that they are tighting the hand again, but you can't predict really of what will happen, anyway, as economicly, surely it will improive, but the important is the political freedom and etc...

also, in tunisia what i'm so sure about, it's not about food or whatever, so what? not all people protesting are poor, all people protesting, we have political demands, we are very attached to our demands, and watchign every step that happeneds, and if anything go as we don't want it, or seems to be, a lazy trick, we protest, and we fix it up, anyway, here in tunisia, since everything is back great and things are going great, our demands are not just, food or something, it wasnt mainly a food revolution or something, if it was a food revolution, protestations would stick in the inner ignored regions! but no it's not a food revolution, or the hungry revolution infact, i really have noo idea how tunisian people declared the revolution, it was declared, when a guy burned himself, means, people directly had the goal, to kick the goverment, anyway, that guy wasn't the first guy who burn himself or sucied in tunisia or the world, that's about my country that i know it good, anyway, in bahrain for example, the people that are protesting, are not all poor either! also the protestations that frightened the saudi goverment, and wich is threatening it by revolting anytime soon, the protestors werent poor people actually, (no, saudi arabian people are not rich or something, because they have oil)

anyway, in tunisia it IS going really good, anyway topday there was a protestation of hundreds of people, against clinton coming to tunisia, and against usa political intervention, and voices to protest for that, started to get raised on facebook, in tunisia, you can't really predict how will protestation rise after the revolution, i mean, it start silent, and get orgnized, and get bigger and bigger silently, intill it do what the people wants, then, start to melt down, and so on, so, idk now about the future of the protesting against clinton coming and usa and etc... these coming days will tell me, i'll tell later in these few days

anyway, the flavour that you are talking about, you mean the goverment style? there's a big chance that the next goverment style in tunisia is parlimentary, and i don't know what flavour you mean, i mean, when it's democracy, that means the peoples will, and etc... that also means, the respect of the people's relegions, moral values, and etc...

and yeah it's not any bed rose in north africa, not in middle east, don't forget yeman; sadly, it's curving into a way like libya, their dictator is heading into, a second libya their, i mean, to use the same methods, anyway, what do you think about gadhafi's future? will he leave dead? or alive? or sucieded?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

My friend, you raise some good points. Let us look at the idea of a parliamentary democracy.

First, you need a head of state who is in charge of keeping the parliament in line. In my case it is the Queen of Canada, represented by the Governor General, duly appointed by the Crown on the advice of the the government. Because he is head of state, he handles all the ceremonial, and diplomatic stuff that otherwise would fall on the head of government. He is also the Commander in Chief of the military. In some parliamentary democracies, India for example, the Governor General is replaced by a President. In any case, we are a constitutional monarchy, and they are a republic. The difference is that simple.

In a parliamentary system, you can have a unicameral or bicameral system. Ours is bicameral at the moment, and our upper house (the Senate) is appointed by the government of the day, and the term is for life or until age 75. Our lower house (House of Commons) is elected periodically, at no fixed time, by the population in general with universal franchise for everyone over the age of 18, This is run by a semi-independent outfit called Elections Canada, which has a lot of power over the financing and control of the election to ensure fairness, etc. Traditonally, the term of a sitting government is five years. elections are often held sooner than that.

The House of Commons is the legislative arm. The leader of the party with the most seats is the Prime Minister, and he populates the government departments with Ministers from his own party. the rest form the Official Opposition. At the moment, we have four parties in our House of Commons. The Conservatives (slightly right of center) form the government, but they have a minority, which means that, although they have the most seats of any party, they don't have enough to rule without the compliance of the other parties. The remaining parties are the Liberals (slightly left of center), the New Democrats (socialist), and the Parti Quebecois (Separatist).

This is about as many parties as make any sense in our kind of system. In order to be recognized as a party, you must have 12 seats, otherwise you are seated as an independent of which we have a few. Sometimes these tails get to wag the dog. The important thing for you is to limit the number of parties or you will have a mess like Israel. Coalition governments are just too fragile.

All the signs here indicate that we will have an election soon. The new budget will be brought down next Tuesday, and if the opposition does not support it, the fat will be in the fire by Friday. Our election campaigns are less than two months, and it would be all over by, say, the end of June. We do not have run off elections, and we use a first past the post system. Proportional representation has been bandied about but we don't want it. for that, look at New Zealand.

So, that's a brief view of the parliamentary model. Another model you might want to look at is the triune constitutional republic of the United States of America. I leave that to those more familiar with that set of checks and balances.

Here is a link to our Charter of rights and Freedoms which is the main instrument of our constitution.

  Edited March 16, 2011 by A Nonny Moose  

[american15 5]

The whole reason why the people in countries like Libya, Iran (There were uprisings there last month), and Tunisia is because they are sick of being bullied by dictators. They have had the same ones for decades and the citizens are tired of being oppressed year after year.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I wish our elections only took 2 months.

its 2011 and they have been already ramping up for 2012 since november.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The whole reason why the people in countries like Libya, Iran (There were uprisings there last month), and Tunisia is because they are sick of being bullied by dictators. They have had the same ones for decades and the citizens are tired of being oppressed year after year.

Took them a long time, and access to the social networks for them to find out they were oppressed, eh? I don't much care for these public displays of angst on the Internet, but in this case, it is interesting to see that some peoples have discovered there were alternatives to their life style.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

UN resolution as been enacted. Is it too little too late?

[iuri99 48]

Where is the Twitter right now?

When bombs start to drop away, the things change...

I really sorry about that people in Libya.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

French Jets have begun attacking the Lybian forces which are bombing and shelling Benghazi. Saturday afternoon 19th March.

UK and USA have launched 110 tomahawk missiles at Lybian capability.

Operation is called "Odyessy Dawn"

  Edited March 19, 2011 by Merlin of Flyote  

[your_adress_here 11]

Drop (censored), not bombs.

Operation is called "Odyessy Dawn"

Sounds like something out of Star Trek (granted, the Enterprise IS being used in this operation).

  Edited March 21, 2011 by your_adress_here  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Drop (censored), not bombs.

Operation is called "Odyessy Dawn"

Sounds like something out of Star Trek (granted, the Enterprise IS being used in this operation).

After a brief demonstration of the kind of fire-power available, the Arab League has decided to take its ball and go home. Another of example of getting things you asked for but really didn't understand. They also don't understand that there is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant. They wanted war, and war they got.

The coalition is simply enforcing the no-fly zone request by making it impossible for the Libyan Air Force to fly. Fox news, as usual, is full of BS.

There is bound to be some collateral damage, but since none of the targets thus far have been in civilian areas, one hopes it is minimum. You can't make an omelet ....

Basically, the peace chickens are out there screaming fowl.

The American's operational name is both stupid and unnecessary. This has nothing to do with the Trojan war, and even the location isn't right for that name. Fourth Punic war might be more like it.

I am not a hawk, but an ordinary Canadian who has been pushed too far. If you get us in a fight, watch out.