Project Micropolis

[LivingInThePast 364]

 With all the growing disdain for EA and their inability to make a "real" sequel to SC4, why not literally restart the SimCity series with a forked version of Micropolis?

For those who don't know, a "fork" is when a new project (or version) branches off from a open-source program.

"Micropolis Fork" (working title) will literally let us decide what goes into the next SimCity. To really work this, we need to think back to the early days, when SimCity was all there was. We should be able to find old BBS records (like what Wright and Fred Haslam did), and then implement those ideas. It's like reinventing the wheel in a good way!

Some facts:

- Prior to the final SimCity 2000, Wright managed to create a complex water model to build dams, and allow water to flow out, building highways, and being able to make zone sizes. 

- The Macintosh version of SimCity was the first commercial version made (Commodore 64 had prototyped it). Therefore, both Mac and PC need to be equal.

The time has come for us to take SimCity into our hands and rebuild it from the ground up, possibly coming to a better "4" than is available currently. Compatible, too!

[simmaster07 1,220]

Is a fork of Micropolis capable of being better than SimCity 4? Probably not. Are we capable of creating a fork, though? It's possible, though the concept has been tried and done. It really seems that nobody can successfully top SC4 in this day and age since, as has been stated before, we're not capable of a next-generation city planning simulator just yet.

[LivingInThePast 364]

It would take a long time for Micropolis to get to "4" level. Currently, we're still on Level "1". It was a huge jump between SC1 and SC2K, a substantial jump between SC3K and SC4 (even though its not on the surface), and a small jump between SC2K and SC3K (almost exclusively surface)

[JayStimson 211]

It's really sad to see posts like this that keep popping up from time to time. There are few who realize what a absolutely huge project it would be to top SC4. To do what SC4 can currently do plus fix a few significant issues like diagonal facing buildings / lots so they face the road, get water to work like in real-life (gravity) so we could make lakes and streams that actually flow downhill, and other details to make things more realistic, .... plus provide a gmax / LE / PIM equivalent so users could continue to make custom content .... etc, etc. is a massive under-taking. I did a rough estimate a couple of years ago (I was an IT project manager for 2 decades) and I came up with close to $14 million dollars. The biggest line item was testing. Something even seasoned programmers fail to consider when cost estimating. So for those who feel they can program a better mouse-trap, go for it. Let me know how it goes. lol

BTW, if someone could come up with the $ 14 million, I'd be over-joyed to manage the project.

[Earwhyckque 18]

14 million dollars? I think I'm just a few months away from reaching that amount of money on my bank account. You'll be the first who hears it when I get there

In the meantime I would be happy with any attempt of someone to make a SC2000-like game using the open source of OpenTTD, so you could manage your cities in that game. Compatability with the Transport Tycoon game would be great. I assume that such a project would cost much less money...

[LivingInThePast 364]

Originally posted by: JayStimson

It's really sad to see posts like this that keep popping up from time to time. There are few who realize what a absolutely huge project it would be to top SC4. To do what SC4 can currently do plus fix a few significant issues like diagonal facing buildings / lots so they face the road, get water to work like in real-life (gravity) so we could make lakes and streams that actually flow downhill, and other details to make things more realistic, .... plus provide a gmax / LE / PIM equivalent so users could continue to make custom content .... etc, etc. is a massive under-taking. I did a rough estimate a couple of years ago (I was an IT project manager for 2 decades) and I came up with close to $14 million dollars. The biggest line item was testing. Something even seasoned programmers fail to consider when cost estimating. So for those who feel they can program a better mouse-trap, go for it. Let me know how it goes. lol

BTW, if someone could come up with the $ 14 million, I'd be over-joyed to manage the project.quote>

Yeah, I agree. It wasn't a good idea after all. Besides, if I ever do program, I'd rather do something like create a better/modern version of Executor.

If I were to ever touch Micropolis, I'd probably remove the voice that informs me what tool I've chosen. ROAD! WIRE! RESIDENTIAL!

[Darkhog 0]

It's really sad to see posts like this that keep popping up from time to time. There are few who realize what a absolutely huge project it would be to top SC4. To do what SC4 can currently do plus fix a few significant issues like diagonal facing buildings / lots so they face the road, get water to work like in real-life (gravity) so we could make lakes and streams that actually flow downhill, and other details to make things more realistic, .... plus provide a gmax / LE / PIM equivalent so users could continue to make custom content .... etc, etc. is a massive under-taking. I did a rough estimate a couple of years ago (I was an IT project manager for 2 decades) and I came up with close to $14 million dollars. The biggest line item was testing. Something even seasoned programmers fail to consider when cost estimating. So for those who feel they can program a better mouse-trap, go for it. Let me know how it goes. lol

BTW, if someone could come up with the $ 14 million, I'd be over-joyed to manage the project.

I know this thread is over 1 year old, but feel that I need to add some things here. Yeah, I know real-like waterflow is hard to make, but not as hard as you think. Look at Minecraft - true, water is blocky there, but it flows and it flows quite good. It's all matter of figuring out good block size so it will look like fluid even on high zoom. Also you forget some things that applies to open source/indie games, but not to big commercial ones. That's right - money needed. You don't have to pay testers - fans of game would download latest build and report any bugs their find. Frankly that's how it work for Simutrans. It's using isometric graphic engine which is quite similar to Simcity 2000's.

Simcity 2k:

Simutrans:

And because it's a transportation game with publicly available code we don't have to code transport system = less money used for research and development. All we need to code is zoning, taxes, advisers and placing buildings. Simutrans also has great content tools. I'm currently working for futuristic game pak for it. Graphics and sounds we can either take from Simutrans or ask some artists. I know at least 2 guys and one girl who would do this for free. Games like that doesn't need marketing either. All they need is posts on boards like this one saying basically "Hey, this game exist, you can download builds from here and if you come upon bug please report. Thanks".

So your $14 milion went down to... Less than $1k (basically hosting costs and paying some programmers, but most contributions would be free because of open source nature)

[Mark Waybill 242]

Good luck with making a better version of 2000 with the Simutrans code. My own project Virtucity I made using Game Maker. I am not an experienced programmer. I failed at C and even GML takes a lot of effort from me to achieve simple results but since 2005 I've managed to create something similar to 2000, using several scripts created by other GM users like one for isometric terrain.

As it is not commercial and it is free and as it is just a poor quality version of 2000 made using Game Maker naturally I don't set much hope in store for it.

HOWEVER it shows that even with the limited resources at my disposal I could replicate certain effects like zoning etc. More complex systems like transportation commuting simulation and individual citizen simulation, as well as 3d graphics which I stink at doing, could be done by other GM users. However Gm has limitations.

We the fans have members who are able and willing to do this stuff for free, we don't have Simutran's organisation though. We also still hold onto some hope of a game company making sc5 for us.

As much as I am not ruling out the possibility of sc5 happening it would be wise and we'd hardly lose anything by making a project ourselves.

[Darkhog 0]

I'm not a C coder myself too (but I know what I'm talking about since used other languages like Lazarus, FreeBASIC, etc.) and picked Simutrans because of it's already made transportation code and gfx engine looking quite like SC2k (you can even change height of terrain here). Also 3D gfx isn't that important. All we need is to make zoning, etc. in ST code. Maybe we don't have even change engine at all, but I need to investigate gamepak system further to be sure.

Also in terms of portability GM isn't good choice. On other systems like Linux or Mac playing GM game is a roulette, because sometime it'll work with (dar)wine, sometime won't. For me GM games don't work. Exits after splash babbling something about "Unexpected error".

//edit: Even though I'm not C/C++ coder, I'm not "idea guy" either. I can make gfx and even sfx (not music though as I suck at it)

  Edited November 13, 2011 by Darkhog  

[Mark Waybill 242]

http://www.mediafire.com/?6v2t3b3wxe7h5ll

Well that's the link to my game. I created the graphics (which do stink but graphics are a low priority atm obviously) music (created with a free piano midi creator program just to give the game something to liven it up. was inspired by 2000 music. failed.) and most of the 'script' although a lot of actions used in built game maker functions or only a small amount of actual 'code'.

I suppose why I like Game Maker is with a script I'd never remember all of it and GM is so easy to get around. I can store my images, sounds etc in neat foldered archives and if I say want an object to do something I go to that object and add commands easily. Code just seems so complicated and difficult to read and get about, like walking through a darkly lit forest whereas in GM it's like driving along a highway to where I want to go.

As to games crashing a lot of GM games are buggy and only a small amount of finished professional style games are made. VC is currently mostly bug free, and I think rather than making games more likely to crash it's probably the fact GM games are very amateur and often experimental.

But if you play my game (gameplay is obvious for one who has played simcity although I'd still encourage reading the controls as I use right mouse button rather than left for some things etc) you will note the main limitation wasn't GM's constraints but my own as an individual. If, for instance, I was not one but a team of dedicated and happy people with the skills and resources...

But as to a 'fork' of Micropolis or Simutrans, it might be a good short cut to a certain level of development, but surely the best way to get what we want is to create an entirely new and fresh engine with what we want in mind. A forked Simutrans would be like 2000 but with better transportation simulation... I doubt It would get to 4 level quickly and by that time EA might have come out with 5 anyway...

[Darkhog 0]

What I dislike most about Micropolis is flat, top-down graphics, so I can even live with 2k-like engine. Flat, top-down things maybe are good for RPGs or top-down shoot-em-ups, but for simulation game is just "Meh".