Light Rail

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

OMG no ones posted about the oldest Underground Light Railway in the world! The Tube! Serving the Worlds largest city ( www.emporis.com ) with 275 stations it serves around 3 million passengers a dayand is one of 3 London Metro Systems (along with the DLR and Croydon Tramlink) . The First tube line opened in 1863.

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Odd^^

 

 

 

 

[Wolf_pt 7]

It can be old but it is in good conditions

I think

 

[brijones 0]

Well, I thought whilst on the topic of old Tram's, I thought I'd add a couple of melbournes trams.

 

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/RecordImages/12800/12800image/12800-00001-000196-010.jpg width=800 align=baseline>

 

A horse driven tram pulled by 3 horses, no electricity.

 

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/RecordImages/12800/12800image/12800-00001-000128-140.jpg width=800 align=baseline>

 

A steam driven tram, no longer running, I was shocked when I found this one, I never knew Sorrento had a tram line. This place is ages away from Melbourne at least 2 hours drive.

 

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/RecordImages/12800/12800image/12800-00001-000173-030.jpg width=800 align=baseline>

 

This is Melbourne, Flinders Street station.

 

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/RecordImages/12800/12800image/12800-00001-000111-200.jpg width=800 align=baseline>

 

This is one of the heritage trams that have been phased out due to problems with the brakes. melbourne is now filled with new trams that look pretty shite. Every year historians fight to bring back the old trams, but I think it's a losing battle.

 

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/archivesvictoria/RecordImages/12800/12800image/12800-00001-000039-040.jpg width=800 align=baseline>

 

Another picture of Melbournes Flinders Street station. Notice the way the cars are making a hook turn, which is a right turn from the left lane in which the car doesn't block the tram in the process.

[halo_lover 1]

Er, tonks, AFAIK the Tube isn't considered light rail, it's a subway.

[Jerebannus XVI 7]

Here's a tram on fire.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//1.jpg align=baseline>

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//9DEABRIL.jpg align=baseline>

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Actually as less then 50% of it is underground its considered a light railway. Plus a Subway is a light rail, its very rare to have Heavy Rail subways (allthough Londons Crossrail will be)

Anyway, back to the largest city in thw world ( www.emporis.com ) we have the DLR (Docklands Light Railway)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

London is so cool

 

 

[Skyshroud 0]

And here are photos of Auckland, New Zealand. We believe it is the only place in the world where desiel trains go into an underground station - whats that saying about us?  The name of the station is the Britomart.

 

Here is an outside view

 

And the view at night

 

And from the back is the modern view

 

And heres an actual train in the underground, a rather quiet looking day

 

Another view of the colourful lights

 

Even the rest rooms look flash!

 

 

[slightlyslack 20]

Date: 9/5/2005 6:50:54 PM Author: ILL Tonkso

Actually as less then 50% of it is underground its considered a light railway. Plus a Subway is a light rail, its very rare to have Heavy Rail subways (allthough Londons Crossrail will be)

quote>

I'm not so sure about that--isn't one of the definitions of light rail that it draws power from catenaries instead of a third rail?  Most American subways and elevated rail systems (most notably New York and Chicago) draw from a third rail.  Some light rail systems (e.g. the San Francisco MUNI, the Los Angeles Metro Blue Line) go underground and draw power from overhead.

[frogface 352]

Date: 9/6/2005 4:59:50 AM Author: slightlyslack

Date: 9/5/2005 6:50:54 PM Author: ILL Tonkso

Actually as less then 50% of it is underground its considered a light railway. Plus a Subway is a light rail, its very rare to have Heavy Rail subways (allthough Londons Crossrail will be)

quote>

I'm not so sure about that--isn't one of the definitions of light rail that it draws power from catenaries instead of a third rail?  Most American subways and elevated rail systems (most notably New York and Chicago) draw from a third rail.  Some light rail systems (e.g. the San Francisco MUNI, the Los Angeles Metro Blue Line) go underground and draw power from overhead.

quote>

There are some light rail's that draw power from a third rail. some sections of the light rail in bordeux is powered by a third rail network just covered for safety reasons.

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But generally its much safer to draw power from overhead cables. However London Underground NOT a light rail because the track is totally seperated. Light rails usually have sections that go onto the street

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if anything London Underground is closer to Heavy Rail than light rail as the oldest lines were originally built as steam commuter lines with the sub surface line trains being same size as the normal commuter trains

 

 

[vester_DK 477]

Date: 9/5/2005 9:39:36 AM
Author: GoaSkin
What is the difference bethween trams, lightrail and subway?

In Germany, we have:

Strassenbahn: A urban rail-vehicle, mostly 1-2 cars either running in the middle of a street or on traffic lanes. Trams are partially or fully integrated into street traffic, using rails and overhead power lines.

Stadtbahn: Have train lengths up to four cars and aren't usable for rails onto traffic lanes. Sections are using the middle of the street and on road crossings, roads are to cross. A signal system manages it. Many parts of the lines use tunnels or free land. It is designed for smaller distances bethween the stops like on real subways and is mostly used as replacement for subways and trams because you only need one kind of service with tunnels where it's recommended and overground sections where more space is availlable.

U-Bahn: Some as Stadtbahn but more heavy-rail-like. The train length is more comparable with commute trains and the station distances are wider (1-1.5km/ up to one mile). Most parts go in tunnels and the system is too proprietary to go on street level. Overground sections are rare and if there are any, they are either elevated or somehow else cross-free to roads.

Are the three systems comparable with tram, lightrail and subway or is there another difference?

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The U-bahn is similar to the subway. The Strassenbahn I would say is a tramway. The Stadtbahn I have no idea what to compare to.

On danish about lightrail the write this about lightrail:
A lightrail is a modern version of tramway. Higher speed, lightweight vehicles, vehicles with a lenght of 30-40 m. Drives at same level as the other trafic. Can run with all the other trafic but most in it own area along the roads. Runs on electricity.

[silentbreaker 6]

And some pictures of the light rail I use every morning: The lightrail in Berlin (Germany).

[____----____ 37]

that looks sweet SB!

[Fairlane500 8]

Here in the Seattle area, the oinly true light rail is the Link Light Rail system in Tacoma that has been opened recently.

 

While Seattle dreams of its own light rail, the closest they have is the waterfront trolley system that recently was on the brink of being closed to make way for a sculpture.

http://www.railroadforums.com/photos/data/554/thumbs/1000Seattle_Trolley.JPG align=baseline>

 

Also, even closer is probably the most useless trolley in the country. Issaquah's trolley makes just a handful of excursion runs a year for a short distance through town.

http://home.comcast.net/~subwaymark/trips/America/photos/YS/issaquah02.jpg width=639 align=baseline>

[bobek 0]

warning - long post

edit: Photos currently can not be displayed because the server hosting them had crashed. Hopefully data will be (someday) restored from backups. Till then no luck It's working again.

There is quite extensive tram network in Prague and some parts of it could be called light rail.
Some boring numbers:

• Total length: over 140km
• Number of lines: 26 daytime, 9 night (0:30am - 4:30am), over 530km
• Passangers per year: 330 million

Light rail parts look like this:
(all photos form prazsketramvaje.cz )

>
Hlubo

[organicsabre 1]

Date: 8/20/2005 3:04:08 AM
Author: louisville327
SC4BOY:


Your entire argument falls apart once the oil runs out. Peak production---worldwide---is estimated to be within the next THREE years. After the peak, oil production begins decreasing, worldwide, forever. Until it's all gone.


In the meantime, gasoline prices---and the price of just about everything else---starts to go up, and keep going up.


While gas is still relatively cheap in the US, some light rail and other transit systems will remain unused. As long as it is economically possible to drive a car or ride a gas-powered bus anywhere they want to go, people will do so. But once gasoline prices reach a certain level, people will HAVE to turn to mass transit systems in order to move around. They won't have the easy choice of driving.


Be grateful you live in a place with a light rail system at all. In Louisville, our city government has sat on its hands for so long that any possible light rail system is literally decades away---and it will be far too late to ease the pain caused by skyrocketing gas prices...

quote>

In the Uk in my area petrol prices are already at 94.9p / a litre (thats equivalent of roughly $1.70 a litre) and its said to break the

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

My fave Light Rail project is the Portsmouth England one, and not just cus i live there. It will require the construction of a tunnel under the (now deeper) Portsmouth Harbour that will take around 3 minutes to pass through. Now thats a cool tram journey

[organicsabre 1]

Tram schemes in the UK

Shefield Tram


Nottingham tram


Manchester MetroLink


Newcastle Metro

[jbridgman 0]

Date: 9/7/2005 8:17:49 AM
Author: ILL Tonkso
My fave Light Rail project is the Portsmouth England one, and not just cus i live there. It will require the construction of a tunnel under the (now deeper) Portsmouth Harbour that will take around 3 minutes to pass through. Now thats a cool tram journey

quote>

I'm suprised...wouldn't that up the cost? It seems it'd be cheaper to build a bridge over the bay (is the bay wide? I had an impression the place it crossed was a narrow part...kind of the exit of the bay...and that there was already a bridge for cars over it....Sorry if I'm mistaken.)

[jbridgman 0]

Date: 9/7/2005 6:20:34 AM
Author: bobek
Some parts even look like this:

[Skyshroud 0]

My guess is that the tension in the over head wires push it down.

[transitbuddie 0]

I also think that the tension of the wires pushes the pantograph down. In the San Francisco, the pantographs go very low in the Market Street tunnel. Here's a picture at the Church Street Station.

[bobek 0]

Date: 9/7/2005 10:30:52 PM
Author: jbridgman
...

Dude! this is an awesome tram network....so wanna go there sometime. I read this post completely..

I was wondering about the pic I quoted....you see how the pantograph is almost completely folded up? How does that work? Is there something on the tracks that lets the train know how far to fold the pantograph? I've been wondering about this for awhile, so it'd be awesome to get an answer.

quote>

Yes, just like Skyshroud and transitbuddie wrote, it's the overhead wires' tension. The pantograph is pushed against the wire, so there's a good contact ensured. If the tram derails (or the wire breaks), the pantograph would simply look like | instead of <> (or just >). Couldn't find a pic, so I hope I explained it enough.

And here's the schematic of tram lines (metro also included). I only provide the link, the whole picture really wouldn't fit here (621kB). The legend is czech only (couldn't find an english one, even in english section of the transportation company web ), but I think the picture is pretty self-explanatory.

[jbridgman 0]

Yea...that's too bad they don't have english stuff...but hey, I can recognize tram and metro...at least its not chinese, eh? That route map is insane compared to some newer LRT....compare Nottington (I think one line) versus all the lines in Prague...yikes.

I never realized that the line would push it down....I always thought the pantograph would push the line up, but I guess there's a very delicate balance that keeps it from doing that, yet still keeping contact with the line. In Japan, there aren't many example of low line because they almost all run on street medians which means the line must be high enough for clearance. And thanks for the illustration of the | and <>...that was helpful, I never realized that....I don't wanna see a tram derail, but it would be interesting to see that once....can't find a pic...shucks.

thanks y'all!

[organicsabre 1]

Date: 9/7/2005 10:05:39 PM
Author: jbridgman

Date: 9/7/2005 8:17:49 AM

Author: ILL Tonkso

My fave Light Rail project is the Portsmouth England one, and not just cus i live there. It will require the construction of a tunnel under the (now deeper) Portsmouth Harbour that will take around 3 minutes to pass through. Now thats a cool tram journey

quote>


I'm suprised...wouldn't that up the cost? It seems it'd be cheaper to build a bridge over the bay (is the bay wide? I had an impression the place it crossed was a narrow part...kind of the exit of the bay...and that there was already a bridge for cars over it....Sorry if I'm mistaken.)

quote>

It could be that a bridge is not practical because portsmouth has the navy there and the bridge would have to have a high deck, also this could be classed as a blot on the landscape by planners etc., so the tunnel would bypass all this hassel in the planning stages. As Ill Tonkso said, its still in the planning stages so whether the fulls chem will go ahead or not is yet to be seen, but it will certainly help the traffic situation clogging most cities like portsmouth.

[Compromise 1]

With goverment plans the UK is going light rail crazy. I think its great.

[NoMercyx2k3 1]

I live in San Francisco...we have the muni metro, a lightrails ystem that runs througha subway in downtown and on streetlevel in the more residential areas.



here is a train about to enter the subway





We also have a historic trolly line that runs street level showcasing trollies from major cities from across the world.

here is the yard:



woah, a septa streetcar in san francisco!!!

[organicsabre 1]

A new transport network for London is being considered by using a monorail. Heres the artical and a rendered image.



Ambitious plans for an extensive monorail system which would hang trains above the streets of London were unveiled today.

The

[halo_lover 1]

LOL San Francisco didn't repaint the SEPTA cars they bought? OMG that's hilarious.

[transitbuddie 0]

Date: 10/3/2005 6:06:15 PM
Author: halo_lover
LOL San Francisco didn't repaint the SEPTA cars they bought? OMG that's hilarious.

quote>

Muni, in the last few years has been buying PCC cars from around the country, and the world for the F Market line, a historic streetcar route. I believe Muni kept the original livery of SEPTA to show where the car was from. There are some streetcars from Boston that have the Boston Elevated symbol on the side, and same with the Milan trams; the Italian commercials and logos are still on the car.
Here's a picture of the Newark subway (NJ Transit streetcar) in San Francisco: http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?16107

The monorail idea for rapid transit in London is very interesting. I'm not a big fan of elevated trains as it can block views and it could be hard getting through some streets and might not be able to take the most direct path to get from A to B, but it is a cheaper alternative to the cross rail line, which requires a lot of underground tunnels

[slightlyslack 20]

Elevated trains are great because they eliminate the grade crossing problem much more cheaply than subways, but OH MY GOD do people hate having them built in front of their property.  It worked for the Green Line here in L.A. because once that leaves the median of I-105, it only goes through industrial areas; however, all future rail routes would not.  MTA would love to get the Exposition Boulevard light rail line elevated along most of its length so it could run it at 70 mph, and in its RFP for the project MTA has specified a couple of elevated stations over major north-south thoroughfares (Crenshaw Boulevard, La Brea Avenue), as well as a potentially elevated station at the western terminus of Phase I (Venice and Robertson Boulevards in Culver City).  However, the western part of the Phase I route happens to pass through one of the most cohesive and politically empowered middle-class African-American neighborhoods in the United States, and in 2005 you do not want to piss them off if you're MTA, so for now the Expo Line is going to be at grade level for most of the way.  Elevated rail would also have been a great way to get the Red Line subway extended west, but the homeowners' associations and commercial property owners along the proposed route would be absolutely furious about that.