Bottled Water

[Meg 368]

This article seems to be on-topic.

Second Garbage Patch Confirmed in Atlantic Ocean

Written by Joshua S Hill

Published on April 16th, 2010

Posted in Environmental & Climate Science

The discovery of the first garbage patch is credited to Charles Moore, an ocean researcher who discovered the large patch of plastic floating in the Pacific in 1997. Now, the Atlantic can lay claim to a human produced waste patch of its own.

Wife and husband team Anna Cummins and Marcus Eriksen sailed across the Atlantic Ocean in February between Bermuda and Portugal’s mid-Atlantic Azores Islands. In the middle of the Atlantic is the Sargasso Sea, an area surrounded by various ocean currents, including the well known Gulf Stream. The pair took samples ever 100 miles (160 kilometres) and each time they pulled up their trawl it was full of plastic.

“We found the great Atlantic garbage patch,” said Anna Cummins. “Our job now is to let people know that plastic ocean pollution is a global problem – it unfortunately is not confined to a single patch.”

Why the importance on letting people know that this is a problem? Because there is no feasible way to go about cleaning up the ocean garbage patches.

This is not a new discovery, but rather a confirmation of long held beliefs and smaller studies. One such study is that by undergraduates at the Woods Hole, Massachusetts-based Sea Education Association, who have been collecting more than 6,000 samples on trips between Canada and the Caribbean over two decades. The lead investigator, Kara Lavendar Law, said they found the highest concentrations of plastics between 22 and 38 degrees north latitude, an offshore patch equivalent to the area between roughly Cuba and Washington, D.C.

“It’s shocking to see it firsthand,” Cummins said. “Nothing compares to being out there. We’ve managed to leave our footprint really everywhere.”

Putting aside the sheer absurdity that humans believe we can just pollute the planet until it dies, these garbage patches provide a huge danger to animals, both water based and air based. Plastics entangle birds while fish unwittingly mistake small bits of plastic for plankton and other edible treats. Countless stories exist of fish being caught and their bellies being full of plastic debris.

Don’t care about the animals? Listen to Lisa DiPinto, acting director of the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. “That plastic has the potential to impact our resources and impact our economy.”

So pay attention next time there’s a recycle drive in your area, or when you’re down at the beach and finished with your bottle of water.

quote>

[Duke87 1,070]

Point of disingenuousness: this is the result of littering. Not of not recycling.

See, garbage that gets thrown in the gutter washes down the drain, into waterways, and out into the ocean. Plastics are particularly a problem since they are both non-bio-degradable and buoyant, so they can't do much but float around out there. Most other things will either sink or disintigrate/rot and thus not make such trouble.

Meanwhile, garbage that gets put in landfills stays in landfills, so don't feel too bad about throwing your empty soda from McDonalds in the trash. It isn't going to end up in one of these "garbage patches". That will only happen if it isn't properly disposed of.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Meg:  Nature snaps back.  It is not surprising that the oceans have rafts of floating garbage when you consider the length of time we have been throwing stuff into them.  It is quite natural for this stuff to wind up in the places where currents are minimal, as in the Sargasso Sea.

"The moving finger writes, and having writ, moves on ..." from the Rubyyat of Omar Khayyam.

Garbage is like Internet porn.  Once it is out there, the chances of cleaning it up are extremely poor.  In the case of ocean waste, the expense would make some of the expenses for the wars we have had look like a drop in the bucket.

It won't be long, now, before there is so much junk in the environment that we won't be able to sustain ourselves.  The invention of insoluable plastics is one of man's worst ideas.  Sheepishly, all should say, "It looked like a good idea at the time."

[Zelgadis 638]

Originally posted by: hym

The planet doesn't care what we do to it, and "Nature" is subservient to the needs of humanity. quote>

Slightly off topic, but still relevant, I think the volcano in Iceland right now is yet another indication out of many that the reverse is true.  Humans are subservient to the needs of nature.  When nature does something big, the only thing left for us to do is get out of the way.

It is good for everything all around if we were to focus on efficiency.  Let us tax bottled water and use that revenue to repair and upgrade existing municipal water supplies.  

ISF

[Meastro444 1]

Agreed. But I live in a country which already has an excellent water supply.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Considering that your country is mostly below sea level, I assume you purify your rivers rather than use any ground water.

[Meastro444 1]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

Considering that your country is mostly below sea level, I assume you purify your rivers rather than use any ground water.

quote>

Actually, no. Dunes are used to clean the water. There is some amazing physics going on. Basicly the salt water gets pushes down by the sweet water (correct term?). We do use river water, but mostly ground water.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Meastro444

Basicly the salt water gets pushes down by the sweet water (correct term?).quote>

The term you're looking for is "freshwater".

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Meastro444

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

Considering that your country is mostly below sea level, I assume you purify your rivers rather than use any ground water.

quote>

Actually, no. Dunes are used to clean the water. There is some amazing physics going on. Basicly the salt water gets pushes down by the sweet water (correct term?). We do use river water, but mostly ground water.

quote>

Fascinating.  Sand is a wonderful filtration plant if you have enough of it.  You get purification and desalination at the same time.  Is it necessary to chlorinate this water to finally sterilize it?

[fukuda 351]

Fascinating. Sand is a wonderful filtration plant if you have enough of it. You get purification and desalination at the same time. Is it necessary to chlorinate this water to finally sterilize it?quote>

While sand filters are the standard procedure to filter out big particles, you will never be able to desalinate water using sand. It will not filter out toxins, colloids or pathogens either. Seawater is unable to get underground thanks to the aquifer freshwater pushing against it and the fact that freshwater is less dense than seawater, which impedes the flow of seawater underground.

[Meastro444 1]

Originally posted by: fukuda

Fascinating. Sand is a wonderful filtration plant if you have enough of it. You get purification and desalination at the same time. Is it necessary to chlorinate this water to finally sterilize it?quote>

While sand filters are the standard procedure to filter out big particles, you will never be able to desalinate water using sand. It will not filter out toxins, colloids or pathogens either. Seawater is unable to get underground thanks to the aquifer freshwater pushing against it and the fact that freshwater is less dense than seawater, which impedes the flow of seawater underground.quote>

Correct.

And now, we don't have to chlorinate it. At least, the countries I have visited the water allways tasted chlorinated.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Meastro444

Originally posted by: fukuda

Fascinating. Sand is a wonderful filtration plant if you have enough of it. You get purification and desalination at the same time. Is it necessary to chlorinate this water to finally sterilize it?quote>

While sand filters are the standard procedure to filter out big particles, you will never be able to desalinate water using sand. It will not filter out toxins, colloids or pathogens either. Seawater is unable to get underground thanks to the aquifer freshwater pushing against it and the fact that freshwater is less dense than seawater, which impedes the flow of seawater underground.quote>

Correct.

And now, we don't have to chlorinate it. At least, the countries I have visited the water allways tasted chlorinated.

quote>

Ah!  Isn't osmotic filtering wonderful.  Your aquifer must be pretty good.  How deep do you have to go to hit it?

[Meastro444 1]

Not more then a few dozen meters I think. But it's an educated guess.

You should come over N_O_Body and taste the water.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I'd love to, but means fail.  My Dutch is non-existant, so I would have to rely on broken French or English.

[Meastro444 1]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

I'd love to, but means fail.  My Dutch is non-existant, so I would have to rely on broken French or English.

quote>

Since English is mandatory for at least 6 years in the Dutch education system, most of us (if not all) will understand you and reply. Language is not a problem.

[Duke87 1,070]

I'm just going to add here that over in Europe most places do not chlorinate their drinking water. Instead, they use ozone as a disinfectant.

There are pluses and minuses to both.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The big advantage to Ozone is that it breaks down quickly to gaseous Oxygen while doing its job as an oxidizer on pathogens.  Chlorine is more persistent and has an acid taste that I dislike.

BTW, the Univerity of Ottawa is going to ban sales of bottled water on campus.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

The big advantage to Ozone is that it breaks down quickly to gaseous Oxygen while doing its job as an oxidizer on pathogens.  Chlorine is more persistent and has an acid taste that I dislike.quote>

The fact that ozone breaks down quickly is, from an engineering standpoint, actually a disadvantage to its use. Because, you see, once it breaks down, it no longer has any disinfectant effect. Chlorine, by hanging around, continues helping to kill pathogens all the way to the tap.

On the other hand, chlorine also reacts with other things and creates poisonous "disinfection byproducts"... not in concentrations the US EPA would consider harmful, but greater than the zero produced by ozone.

From a practical standpoint, another key disadvantage to ozone is that you have to generate it on site, whereas chlorine you can just have delivered. This isn't a problem for large treatment plants, but it's quite the inconvenience for small ones.

And then there's the taste. Yes, you're not alone in disliking the chlorine taste. A lot of people don't. And ozone doesn't have the same problem.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

There are home ozonators for attachment to the water supply.  I wonder if the sales have justified the effort.  If used on chlorinated water, what kind of hypochorates would result, if any?  Great caution seems to be needed here.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

There are home ozonators for attachment to the water supply.  I wonder if the sales have justified the effort.  If used on chlorinated water, what kind of hypochorates would result, if any?quote>

None, considering there's no such thing as a hypochlorate. Hypochlorite, on the other hand....

...well, I wouldn't worry about it. See, the chlorine in chlorinated water is already half in hypochlorite form. The gas doesn't simply dissolve, it reacts with the water.

Cl_2(g) + H₂O_(l) → 2H⁺_(aq) + OCl^-_(aq) + Cl^-_(aq)

The hypochlorite ion (OCl^-) is actualy the disinfecting agent!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

There are home ozonators for attachment to the water supply.  I wonder if the sales have justified the effort.  If used on chlorinated water, what kind of hypochorates would result, if any?quote>

None, considering there's no such thing as a hypochlorate. Hypochlorite, on the other hand....

...well, I wouldn't worry about it. See, the chlorine in chlorinated water is already half in hypochlorite form. The gas doesn't simply dissolve, it reacts with the water.

Cl_2(g) + H₂O_(l) → 2H⁺_(aq) + OCl^-_(aq) + Cl^-_(aq)

The hypochlorite ion (OCl^-) is actualy the disinfecting agent!

quote>

Y'know, its been quite a while since I was involved in high-school chemistry.  You are quite right, since I got the valence state wrong and should have known better... Or maybe it was just a typo.

Now, I wonder what a few free oxygen radicals from the ozone would do to all this?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

Originally posted by: Duke87

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

There are home ozonators for attachment to the water supply.  I wonder if the sales have justified the effort.  If used on chlorinated water, what kind of hypochorates would result, if any?quote>

None, considering there's no such thing as a hypochlorate. Hypochlorite, on the other hand....

...well, I wouldn't worry about it. See, the chlorine in chlorinated water is already half in hypochlorite form. The gas doesn't simply dissolve, it reacts with the water.

Cl_2(g) + H₂O_(l) → 2H⁺_(aq) + OCl^-_(aq) + Cl^-_(aq)

The hypochlorite ion (OCl^-) is actualy the disinfecting agent!

quote>

Y'know, its been quite a while since I was involved in high-school chemistry.  You are quite right, since I got the valence state wrong and should have known better... Or maybe it was just a typo.

Now, I wonder what a few free oxygen radicals from the ozone would do to all this?quote>

Probably this

Or mabey not.

[Meastro444 1]

That would be most interesting. I imagine we would've been destroyed a hundred times over if that should happen.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Hmmmm.  A false colour picture of the sun from the new telescope.  How interesting.  Hot stuff, in fact.

[Eastwinn 6]

I'm not a huge fan of tap water. I don't like the taste. I don't know if it's the chlorine, the fluorine, both, or some additive that makes it taste the way it does but I don't like it. I prefer my well water -- some combination of dissolved copper (through the acidity of the water) and various copper compounds (Copper Carbonate, Copper Sulfide) makes it takes like pure joy to my well conditioned tongue.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Eastwinn

I'm not a huge fan of tap water. I don't like the taste. I don't know if it's the chlorine, the fluorine, both, or some additive that makes it taste the way it does but I don't like it. I prefer my well water -- some combination of dissolved copper (through the acidity of the water) and various copper compounds (Copper Carbonate, Copper Sulfide) makes it takes like pure joy to my well conditioned tongue.quote>

Copper salts, eh?  I hope they are in only trace amounts.  If the pH of the water is much above 7 it would only be good for putting on French fries.  Acid copper salts will kill you if you get too much of them.  Keep well.  Copper for health.  This UK article may enlighten you.

[Eastwinn 6]

Oh no, not too much. Our water is actually very clean, but the old copper pipes do have presence. If you run the bath water too hot at first it will knock of all sorts of tarnish off (guessing from the green color, Copper Carbonate, I think). The pH of the water is around 5.5 which contributes to the decay of the copper, but as far as I know does little to the PVC. It is a problem with the fish tank though -- most fish require a pH above 7.7 or so. If you put them in even slightly acidic water they will lose their color pretty quickly.

[Shadow Assassin 336]

...How much longer will it be before the garbage becomes solid enough as a landmass in its own right... that is, it becomes a gigantic floating continent that can support people?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Shadow_Assassin

...How much longer will it be before the garbage becomes solid enough as a landmass in its own right... that is, it becomes a gigantic floating continent that can support people? quote>

If you are postulating a new Atlantis, I think it might be several decades.  Pehaps we could exile major polluters there.

[Meastro444 1]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

Originally posted by: Shadow_Assassin

...How much longer will it be before the garbage becomes solid enough as a landmass in its own right... that is, it becomes a gigantic floating continent that can support people? quote>

If you are postulating a new Atlantis, I think it might be several decades.  Pehaps we could exile major polluters there.

quote>

I think we would be sending it off to the universe before it becomes it's own continent.