Brutalist Architecture Discussion Thread!

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Anyway, back on topic, that is a very cool building RP2005, i like it!

[Compromise 1]

Date: 6/25/2005 2:49:16 PM Author: toxicpiano

<---Edited for excessive rudeness--->

Some 1950's to 1980's buildings do look bad but I think that maybe over reacting. Also don't add racisit comments.

 

Apart from that intresting buildings.

[rp2005 165]

Date: 6/25/2005 2:49:16 PM Author: toxicpiano

<---Edited for excessive rudeness--->

Great post! 

 

OK, so you've eliminated 1950-1980 from consideration - now find me a US tower (not 1950-1980)that looks better than 30 St Mary's Axe and I'll start taking you more seriously

 

However, that has absolutely nothing to do with brutalism, so I really don't see why you bothered posting.

 

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Agreed, St Mary Axe is the worlds most modern and efficiant building for the record!

[rp2005 165]

Date: 6/25/2005 3:16:07 PM Author: ILL Tonkso Anyway, back on topic, that is a very cool building RP2005, i like it!

quote>

As with most brutalist designs it is pretty much hated by most people.  From my point of view I like the stepped design that you can see in the 4th photo.  I also think the planting that is used to soften the building, both at ground level and with the trellises on the balconies (an office block with balconies - how cool is that?!!) are worth taking note of when building lots for brutalist BATs.

 

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

yes, the Landscaping is a major part in the Architecture, just look at the Gardens and Canals of the Barbican fo example! If we look at the way the gardens extend throughout the whole complex we can try and incorperate these into a modular BAT.

[toxicpiano 125]

Has anybody seen the national theater in London(UK)? That is a true example of a brutalist building. Look at google images under National theater london i think.

[wallasey 8]

Date: 6/25/2005 2:42:57 PM Author: rp2005

I love those japanese buildings - the capsule tower is a great concept and would make a great BAT.&nbsp; As for the concept 'City in the Sky', I hope the SimMars people are looking in ...

This is the Bradford and Bingley building that I mentioned earlier in the thread:

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/BradBing01.jpg align=baseline>

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing02.jpg align=baseline>

And some detail:

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing03.jpg align=baseline>

And finally:

http://www.atitlan.org.uk/otherpics/bradbing04.jpg align=baseline>

quote>

Back again! Just looking at this reply made me think of the ROyal Sunalliance building in Liverpool which is affectionally cally the Lego Building or the Kellogs building...

 

(All these pics are from liverpoolpictorial.co.uk )

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/lego.jpg align=baseline>

You can see where the nicknames came from!

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/lego1.jpg align=baseline>

The building is in the heart of Liverpool's office district and can be seen from all over!

 

Sorry that most of Rp's reply is here but i couldn't make my mind up what was important and waht wasn't!

[rp2005 165]

Interesting.  I wonder if they share an architect ...

[Emozo 0]

in reply to toxic piano's post why was my post edited? and with no notification to reason? i hardly think calling him an ignorant fool for an offensive remark can be considered worth censoring! unless i am given a worthy reason for my post being deleted or it being re instated, i do not intent to takepart anymore in anything todo with this unjust website and its forums!

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Unfortunatly the Post was considered flaming and was deleted to prevent upsets in the community. We are not an unjust site, as long as you play by the rules you will have fun. Dont leave now on the behalf of one mishap, if you dont like the brutalist Thread, then stear clear, its as simple as that!

[Emozo 0]

dont get get me wrong, i have enjoyed debating in this thread, and if you look at my past comments in it you can see that i try to keep them constuctive. however i dont think it was fair that my comment was singled out over everyone elses who condemed a wreakless comment, when it(mine) certanly wasnt vicious of threatening!

further to this the topic had since moved on and i dont see how tracing and editing comments to amend the stiuation was going to resolve this.

however nuff said, and i will like to enjoy the website more porviding there is a mature way of debate.

[p2h5 3]

Here's something else, which is truly ugly.  St. Guy's Hospital, from London, which is the tallest hospital in the world:

 

 

 

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Nothing a little renovation could fix, i think with modern glass and aluminium this could be a really nice building, however much i like the style in this case it really is a negative input to the skyline.

[deadwoods 542]

OK, so the worlds ugliest Brutalist buildings are in the UK. But seriously, these buildings often look stark in isolation, but when put in the right surroundings they look great. I love the mix of water and timber with some of these buildings. The red/orange colour used on the UK complex offsets the concrete beautifully (similar colour scheme used by FLW on Fallingwater). The upside down arches on the Barbican are great.

[Bee21 2]

Yes, in the 60's we loved these cities in the sky, but not now.

The hospital looks ugly from the ground but the second pic looking down at an angle makes it look realy nice.

[GaryReggae 80]

How on earth could I have missed Guys Hospital, it's huge!!

Odainsaker: Yes, I am a big fan of Tange, I've seen some of his buildings in an architecture book I have and it's a great example of the style.

RP2005: I like that Bradford & Bingley building a lot! Thanks for sharing it!

Toxicpiano: Yes, London's National Theatre is Brutalist. It was designed by Denys Lasdun who designed a lot of other great Brutalist buildings.



Anyway, I took my camera to Southampton City Centre today to photograph architecture, here's some Brutalist buildings:

Norwich House:



Wyndham Court (Grade 2 Listed) Brutalist flats:



Castle House, a Brutalist tower block in the city centre:



City Walls House (vacant):



Capital House (vacant) & East Street Centre:



Part of Southampton City College:



You can view all my photos here: http://www.garyreggae.co.uk/southampton/

[wallasey 8]

Wow! I didn't know that Southampton had such a bad time (if that is right). To be honest I always thought that the heavy industrial centres had the bad share (Like Manchester, Brum ect) but I stand corrected!

EDIT= oh 'ang on, wasn't The Solent demolished badly in the 40's?

[rp2005 165]

Nice selection of photos from Southampton, Gary.  Noriwich House and City Walls House would make nice additions and that college building looks ripe for turning into an industrial...

In fact the top few storeys of City Walls House would look good above some shops in your 60s precinct.

 

[deadwoods 542]

I'm sure a lot of the Brutalist stuff wouldn't have such a bad rap if the concrete didn't look so crappy when it gets the black stains on it.

[Lord_Bertrum 3]

Date: 6/27/2005 3:13:47 AM Author: deadwoods I'm sure a lot of the Brutalist stuff wouldn't have such a bad rap if the concrete didn't look so crappy when it gets the black stains on it.

quote>

Thats the problem, I've seen a few new apartment developments that are under two years old and they have already developed stains like that. Once that happens the character of the building really takes a downward turn

[GaryReggae 80]

rp2005: Thanks, it's a good idea about using the upper storeys of City Walls House for one of my W2W shops, I will do that. 

deadwoods: Yes, that is one of the major criticisms of Brutalism.  The style was formed in France where the weather is better than Britain, unfortunately the concrete doesn't stand up too well against the British rain.  Also, if the buildings were maintained properly then the concrete wouldn't stain.  That was the main problem with The Tricorn, it was negelected so badly that the concrete got stained.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 6/27/2005 1:43:57 AM Author: wallasey

Wow! I didn't know that Southampton had such a 'bad time' (if that is right). To be honest I always thought that the heavy industrial centres had the bad share (Like Manchester, Brum ect) but I stand corrected!

EDIT= oh 'ang on, wasn't The Solent 'demolished' badly in the 40's?

The Solent was in fact demolished pretty much, the worse hit area of the Solent was Porstmouth where about 40% of the city was flattened (and resulting in a 70k population drop), this is all of course because of HMS Nelson (the dockyard). Anyway heres a picture of a long forgotton estate on Portsdown Hill next to Queen Alexandria's Hospital in Portsmouth. Demolished in 1988 this is Portsdown Park.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//portsdownpark.jpg align=baseline>

 

I was only 2 months old when this thing got 'Dropped' so i cant remember it but the pictures have always interested me with the style of the low rise block. Im also unsure how many Buildings occupied the site but i think the others are long gone in this picture as this was the last building to go.

[gascooker 4]

its the quality of the materials that degrade many brutalist buildings and consequently their maintainence costs are high. London's National Theatre was recently cleaned up but ssoner than most victorian, brick or even glass and steel buildings its already starting to decay again...

A lot of pics so far are of monumental/ landmark stuff. Can brutalism produce smaller buildings, given the nature of its discourse? I saw a small brutalist commercial next to London Bridge yesterday, I hadn't noticed before. It could've easily fitted on a 1x2 SC4 LOT....

[deadwoods 542]

Well there was the Canadian house on one of the earlier pages.

[GaryReggae 80]

Great photo of Portsdown Park, I don't remember it either but it was notorious and only existed for about 20 years.  I think there were severe structural problems with it.

I can't think of any smaller Brutalist buildings to hand, generally the style is about huge and complex megastructures but if I think of any smaller buildings, I'll post them.

[wallasey 8]

Wow, I didn't know that Portsmouth lost such a high population. Mind you, Liverpool suffered terribly with a population of around 800,000. Since the 50's, the cities population has more than halfed due to one thing or another.

One of the main reasons was the demolition of terraces and the start of the brutalist age I suppose.

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/scottierdflts.jpg align=baseline>

These flats are ok but the following has now been demolished and it's not suprising to see why...

 

http://www.imgcity.net/server/primary/cornrith1.jpg align=baseline>

This forbiding block was demolished live on Cityfm. The dust from this covered everything and the whole area looked as if someone had sprinkled icing sugar over the everything. The only good thing to be said about these flats are the view. Sea ward you can see North Wales and the isle of Man. Northward you can see the Lake District Mountains, Southward the City Centre and the Mersey sweep. Finally Eastward you can see the Pennines and the South Lancashire Plains before hand.

 

The ironic thing is, flats like these were built all over the UK to replace the terraces. Now, the terraces are still standing but the flats are being buldozed!

 

well I hope that this post has been enjoyable and not dragged a bit!

 

PS that portsdown Estate looks very much like the Hulme Estate in Manchester.

[Chartsengrafs 0]

I'm really glad that this thread is still going!!    Some of the photos that have been added since I last posted are great!  Lots of interesting buildings.  I agree with what a lot of you are saying about Brutalist buildings looking scruffy due to weathering, though.  The unfortunate irony there is that a lot of Local Authorities use that as an excuse to brand them 'eyesores' and tear them down, when many Victorian (and earlier) buildings are listed, despite being black as coal from soot and smog back in the day!  There are many buildings in Glasgow that are in such a condition, but they can't be (or at least haven't been) cleaned, because the stone is too soft and would be damaged in the process, or because the cost is simply too great.  Regardless, they are listed and all sorts of measures are taken to protect them.  A perfect example was the former church that housed 'The Shack' nightclub.  It was a listed building, stained black with soot, but even after it burned down rather spectacularly at the end of last year, every effort was made to save what was left.  Go figure!

 

Another thing that people forget is that a lot of people like living in high flats.  Usually this is dependant on the security arrangements in the entire building, but a lot of people feel secure locked away at night in their little capsule in the sky - especially in rough areas.

 

I'm personally concerned that by demolishing buildings of this nature, we are erasing historical 'documents' and an important part of our urban heritage.  I know that in Glasgow, hundreds (possibly thousands) of tenement blocks (many designed by Alexander 'Greek' Thomson) were demolished under the 'Comprehensive Development Area' (CDA) schemes of the '50s and '60s, then twenty or thirty years later, people realised what a mistake that had been and began to call for renovation, rather than replacement.  I can't help but wonder if the same thing will happen with the high rises and Brutalist estates once it's too late.  Trellick Tower and the Barbican have demonstrated how well these buildings can function when they are renovated, and proper security arrangements are put in place.

[gascooker 4]

I totally aggree charsengrafs. Many local authorities are partly to blame in the demise of such buildings. The barbican is a good example. When the blocks are occupied by wealthy inhabitants the block will have a consierge, well maintained gardens, lifts and interior common parts. Lack of investment and maintainence by some local authorities have deprived many of these buildings of such pleausres. They are effectively bad landlords. Consequently the buildings then look awful and decaying and have almost become a symbol of poverty.

This is changing slowly. For example my local authority of Southwark, which has one of the highest density of residential populations in the UK is now improving and looking after their brutalist beauties. Many of the estates are well pruned and consequently such architecture is seen less of an eyesore to its local residents.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 6/28/2005 7:43:00 AM Author: wallasey

Wow, I didn't know that Portsmouth lost such a high population. Mind you, Liverpool suffered terribly with a population of around 800,000. Since the 50's, the cities population has more than halfed due to one thing or another.

quote>

I think a lot of Portsmouths Population decline can be put down to Havant. Its Part of the City but it has its own council so it counts as a seperate Population. This is significant because before the war it was a small town/large village, then they built Leigh Park, europes largest Council Estate! The City's Paulsgrove and Wymering Estate (why do i have to live there) is also on a large scale.