American Politics

[Meg 368]

I agree.

A lot of people think we are going in the wrong direction but have very different reasons as to why.

Some think we are going in the wrong direction because we are talking about doubling the interest on student loans. Others think it's because we are talking about increasing the taxes on billionaires.

Some think it's because Rick Perry managed to win some primaries. Other think it's because he didn't win more.

and so forth.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I don't think it's for any reasons like that. But I'm trying to hope that everything works out no matter what.

How did the whole conservative and liberal thing start anyway? Forgive my ignorance, I'v only possibly heard it before learning in history but I guess I was more used to hearing Republican this and Democrat that all the time.

I would most likely be classified as liberal though.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Viewed from the outside the United States appears to be in a period of confusion. The Occupy movement is a good example. How many of those participating were homeless and/or unemployed, and how many were just joiners-in?

The failure of the Occupy movement is that no leader of any kind appeared.

[Duke87 1,070]

The failure of the Occupy movement is the same as the failure of many similar liberal youth organizations. The whole thing revolves around a rebellious "fight the system" mentality, and they are more concerned with being disobedient than with actually accomplishing anything. They keep clashing with the police because for them it justifies their existence. They're the downtrodden victims and "the man" is oppressing them, after all (Sound familiar? We've seen this before...). Ultimately, it is all just a cry for attention. There is no actual there there.

The Tea Party, meanwhile, has a strong core message - but their failing has been that they've let their core message get overshadowed and overrun by unrelated crazy. So now instead of being a group against wasteful spending and high taxes as was originally the idea, they're a group against abortion, contraception, gay rights, evolution, and, oh yeah, I guess we want to see spending cuts too. But only for things those evil liberals like. God bless America!

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Isn't Occupy Wall Street still going on? I actually support it.

The Tea Party doesn't sound that pleasant....

[Larks2242 251]

I don't think the protesters had much of an idea what was going on, They seemed to be doing it cause it was popular and they could feel like they were apart of something.

Plus, alot of the people were just camping out to camp out as we saw in California and in many other cities.

I agree.

A lot of people think we are going in the wrong direction but have very different reasons as to why.

Some think we are going in the wrong direction because we are talking about doubling the interest on student loans. Others think it's because we are talking about increasing the taxes on billionaires.

Some think it's because Rick Perry managed to win some primaries. Other think it's because he didn't win more.

and so forth.

True, Finding middle ground seems to be the toughest part of the election process.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The occupy movement failed because they had no idea what they were after,they should have been occupying Congress not various banks.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Here we go again. Now the Senate can add its Homeland Security venom, and Obama can veto it.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 9, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Yes, there is no doubt about it. Feelings of vaguely against something, but nothing jells. Rebels without a cause.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

There's a cause in it for some, but I won't deny that most simply done it for the heck of it. If I was part of it, (which would be nearly impossible since nothing like that is happening in Louisiana that I know of and my Parents wouldn't allow it or frown upon it) I'd have reason and cause. But I'd most likely be ignored.

I can't believe they are trying the SOPA and PIPA thing again with a new name. Censored Internet or monitored Internet is so absurd and violation of privacy.

  Edited April 27, 2012 by Sgt Pepper  

[hym 358]

Realistically, the problem that the Occupy movement had was not having a single point of leadership. That's it.

It had more problems than that, some of them very significant. Towards the end of the major protests, reports were coming out of horrible funding management and some individuals in charge engaging in the same behavior that the OWS movement was protesting. Add in major public image problems, and you've pretty much killed the movement. (There was also the fact that the whole "we are the 99%" mindset was grossly flawed.)

The overall message, I think, has been pretty clear, though - objection to the power of corporations and bankers in government, in the economy, and in society, as a whole.

If there was an overall message, it was so mired in the overall chaos of the protests that it was lost.

It is the great fault of Progressives - we are a conglomerate of different ideas, different needs, and different perspectives. The Progressive movement is strongly individualized, not lemmings like most conservatives. It bites us in the butt every time.

That is one way to look at the situation. Another assessment is that the majority of Americans aren't liberal/progressive/whatever. They are either conservative or on their way to becoming conservative. Accordingly, the great fault of Progressives is misunderstanding the target audience.

[Duke87 1,070]

the majority of Americans aren't liberal/progressive/whatever. They are either conservative or on their way to becoming conservative.

Gallup on the matter.

This is by self-identification. Naturally, how many people fit into each club depends on how you define it.

Interestingly, despite the fact that there are twice as many self-identified conservatives as self-identified liberals, registered Democrats outnumber registered Republicans.

Registered Democrats still dominate the political playing field with more than 42 million voters, compared to 30 million Republicans and 24 million independents.

Of course, only 28 states register according to party, so this may be skewed.

[CaliGirl 0]

At my workplace in San Jose, CA talk about the Occupy Movement has fizzled out. I think in Oakland it is still an issue. Right now everyone is worried about the economy and I think that will possibly sway some people into looking at the Republican Party. However, Romney is more out of touch with the common man/woman than most politicians. It is strange how the republican party picks the least qualified people to run. I can't believe that Bush was voted into office again after the economy tanked.

[hym 358]

the majority of Americans aren't liberal/progressive/whatever. They are either conservative or on their way to becoming conservative.

Gallup on the matter.

This is by self-identification. Naturally, how many people fit into each club depends on how you define it.

Not the study I was referring to, though it does somewhat illustrate the point.

In the lead up to the 2008 elections, when people were still unsure whether Hillary Clinton could win an election if nominated, some studies where done to estimate what percentage of the population she could expect to vote for her. One of the points that was mentioned was that there is a tendency for people to vote for Democrats in their younger years and switch to voting for Republicans later in life. It was also found that people's political leaning tended to shift towards the conservative side when they experienced any of the following events:

• Significant increase in income and/or taxes.
  
• Purchase of a house or other large purchases (vehicle purchases didn't seem to have an effect).
  
• Birth of children.
  
• Aging
  

In effect, the report said that Americans tended to become more conservative simply as a matter of aging, with any of the 3 previous circumstances simply accelerating that trend towards conservative leanings.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Is it possible that a majority of Americans are just plain against?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Is it possible that a majority of Americans are just plain against?

And the answer you would get is

"Against What"

last week were were against flag burning,and this week were against gay marriage.

Its hard to keep up.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Is it possible that a majority of Americans are just plain against?

And the answer you would get is

"Against What"

last week were were against flag burning,and this week were against gay marriage.

Its hard to keep up.

You've made my point. Since the 1930s Americans have been against whatever. And now, many of them are up against it.

---

Came across this in the Devil's Dictionary and thought it was to the point.

"Politics: A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.

The conduct of public affairs for private advantage."

-- Ambrose Bierce

  Edited April 28, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Larks2242 251]

Isn't everyone for and against stuff, not just "Americans"?

[astronelson 339]

The point of the comment appears to be that Americans seem to not be for anything, deciding only based on what they are against.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks, Astro. That was indeed my point. There seems to be a lot of flak against this and that, but very little positive in American press these days.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 9, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

It is truly unfortunate that the media are so good at loaded questions.

  Edited April 30, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Easy Bakes 253]

I could prove the Sky is red with statistics.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Yes, and white really is black if you parse it properly.

[Duke87 1,070]

Gallup is not known to be an organization with a particular slant. Their results are just data. Still, interpret with caution. Not everyone who self-identifies as "conservative" is going to match the stereotypical conservative viewpoint on everything. And naturally, we all know that beliefs within the beltway are not consistent with those outside of it. Politicians represent their party first, their sponsors second, and their constituents last.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

1. Education and research are important cornerstones/pillars to any economy or civilization, without them, you get a dark age.

2. US debt is unsustainable, if our government does not start running a surplus, the Union will go broke and bankrupt parties are absorbed or divided if they cannot start running in the black.

3. What would you prefer? The Divided States in America or the People's Republic of China + America (a new Chinese Empire)? If we do not fix our economy and budget, the Central branch of the Federal Government of the United States of America will dissolve. So Confederacy, loose coalition, or Chinese dictatorship (or mostly Chinese with the rest divided among the other debtors)?

4. The US needs to get with the program and enact proper austerity measures such as removing ALL subsidies on corn, lowering salaries on all federal employees in DC, and increasing taxes on coal and petrol -- based on greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I consider myself financially conservative, but taking those online tests show me as financially liberal.

Who knew.

Maybe its because i think certain parts of our society need to be well funded and not subject to budget cuts.

[hym 358]

4. The US needs to get with the program and enact proper austerity measures such as removing ALL subsidies on corn...

The federal government is retiring corn subsidies.

...lowering salaries on all federal employees in DC...

A better idea would be to run an efficiency audit on the federal bureaucracy and start firing people as appropriate. Right now, the United States Postal Workers union is waging a public relations campaign to preserve the jobs of 100,000 postal workers that should have never been hired in the first place.

...and increasing taxes on coal and petrol -- based on greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions.

When the economy takes a hit, the federal government's tax base takes a hit, and there is no surer way to kill the US economy than to start raising costs on fuel. If the government wants to generate revenue, it will keep fuel costs as low as possible.

[Odainsaker 2,135]

3. What would you prefer? The Divided States in America or the People's Republic of China + America (a new Chinese Empire)? If we do not fix our economy and budget, the Central branch of the Federal Government of the United States of America will dissolve. So Confederacy, loose coalition, or Chinese dictatorship (or mostly Chinese with the rest divided among the other debtors)?

4. The US needs to get with the program and enact proper austerity measures such as removing ALL subsidies on corn, lowering salaries on all federal employees in DC, and increasing taxes on coal and petrol -- based on greenhouse gas and pollutant emissions.

Yellow Perilism aside, as the biggest holders of U.S. public debt are still domestic holders, Fareed Zakaria on his blog recently referenced the argument that perhaps austerity is not the right medicine at this time stage:

We are four years into the financial crisis. In the United States, the government acted speedily and massively to stimulate the economy, using monetary and fiscal measures. In Europe, by contrast, governments quickly turned toward austerity programs, cutting spending across the board to reduce budget deficits.

Well, the results are in: The U.S. economy is expected to grow 2 to 3 percent this year. The euro zone is expected to contract by 0.3 percent this year; Spain and Britain have officially entered a double-dip recession, the first time major economies have done so in 40 years. IMF projections show that even Germany's average growth rate over the next five years will be only 40 percent of America's.

The leading Conservative governments of Sarkozy, Merkel, and Cameron don't have much to show for the Eurozone. Perhaps Keynes was right...allow flexibility in government policy for public stimulus during the downturns when the economy needs support and save the harsh austerity for the boom years when the economy can endure and absorb such individually cripplingly cuts on its own. We are losing our time scales: spinning off the U.S. today into 50 broke and broken Greeces in order to head off a disaster projected for 40 years down the road doesn't strike me as a rational national plan.