Is there anyone out there?!

[hummer0328 6]

Who's to say that earth hasn't already spawned intelligent life sometime in our distant past? They could have been wiped out by an asteroid, devastating disease, or wiped themselves out through nuclear weapons, anti-matter weapons, ect. Or maybe they just eventually left earth after establishing themselves on other worlds. Maybe earth stopped becoming a viable home because of the aftermath of an asteroid.

If humans were suddenly wiped off the face of the earth how long would it take before there was virtually no evidence of our existence? Maybe sometime in the distant future another species would step up the evolutionary chain and become intelligent. They could easily never be aware that we ever existed. Even if they did find some evidence they probably would think it to be something from their own early civilizations.

As far as alien radio signals go, the only radio signals we could receive would be very old.  Just within our own galaxy they easily be from 80,000 years ago.  Look outside of your galaxy and they could be billions of years old.depending on how far away their galaxy is.  After thousands or even millions of years of attenuation and signal degradation the alien radio signal would be indistinguishable from background noise.  Any other more advanced forms of communication would be well beyond our current technology.  FTL signals would most likely be unidirectional anyways.

[Boggy1 45]

Long post coming up.

Just in case anyone doesn't know, here is a rough outline of the Fermi paradox, mentioned on the first page.

Scientists have recently divided up hypothetical extra-solar technological civilisation epochs into four stages. K1, K2, K3 and K4.

Here are the stages in detail:

K1: A civilisation that is manipulating matter and energy on a planetary scale; basically means drawing energy from the planet.

K2: A civilisation that is tapping into the immense energies stored in a star. Using dyson spheres or whatever, to give harnessing powers resulting in an almost unlimited supply of energy for an entire solar system.

K3: A civilisation that is able to manipulate and draw energy on a galactic scale.

K4: A civilisation that is so powerful and/or sublime that it can manipulate the fabric of space/time itself.

Now, there has been enough time for a type K3 civilisation to rise and fall over a thousand times in our galaxy alone. Yet we don't see them.

We should be able to see a K1 from 40,000 light years away, as we can already detect the basic atmospheric content of extrasolar planets. We don't see them.

We should be able to see a K2 from nearby galaxies. Stars should show abnormal readings (though if surrounded by a dyson sphere, we may not see the star itself) We don't see them.

We should be able to see a K3 from galaxies millions of light years away, nowhere near our local group. We don't see them.

(We might not actually see a K4 because they would be so advanced that they probably wouldn't even be recognizable.)

And not only that, but we don't see any ruins of them either. If they are all dead, then there might be great big hulking shapes throughout the cosmos. We don't see them either.

There have been many theories put forward as to why we cant see them. Some of the major ones I will list here:

One possibility is that we do not register them because they are so unimaginably advanced and/or different from us that our brain simply will not accept that they exist.

(This has already happened. When the first ships travelled to the Polynesian Islands, the natives would seem to not see the ships or the crew of the ships. The natives just couldn't register the fact that ships of that size could exist, which shows just how interpretive our brains are.)

Another possibility is that a very few number of species are curious. Maybe, most civilisations will reach an age that they like and stay there, be it Stone Age or Atomic Age. The human race is insanely curious, so maybe we are a rare phenomenon in the galaxy. But of course, there is a flaw, because it would take just one other alien civilisation to be curious like us and to populate the galaxy for us to be able to see them

There is also the 'zoo theory'. This theory states we are being constantly watched and studied by aliens who are concealed in what could be called a 'Duck blind'; who do not wish to be seen. This has been explored in Star Trek where they have a 'Prime Directive'; an order with prohibits the Federation members to contact younger civilisations so that they can develop into interstellar spaceflight on their own and without interference.

The 'Matrix' theory. The universe seems to be designed for our kind of life, Ifthe, around, 60 'Universal Constants' changed by a fraction at the beginning of the Universe, life as we know it could not form. Stars couldn't form. Planets couldn't form. Even atoms couldn't form.

So, we could actually be in a giant simulation, created by intelligent being to study us, and the reason that we cant see any extraterrestrials is that they simply haven't programmed them in. Could we really be in a giant game of The Sims?

Another possibility is that there all life is being systematically wiped out. This concept is explored in Alastair Reynolds books,[rest of post cut off in downtime]

[nazaguy 0]

As has been said before, there are trillions of habitable planets out there. The Odds are stacked against us being the only intelligent life-form in the universe. We are, however the only intelligent life form we'll have to deal with.

[jjune4991 1]

Originally posted by: Boggy1 Could we really be in a giant game of The Sims?

quote>

 

ha! that's good! oh no! there is a person in my way, what do i do? i guess i'l just i'll just shrug...*shrugs*

[belfastuniguy 18]

I agree with what you have said Boggy

I think things like Star Trek have given us false impression and ideas, but I to believe life in many forms does exist and as your rightly mentioned we have not even discovered all forms of life on earth, we are constantly finding new species of animals, insects, plant and sea life.

The earth is a very special place of course, but I seriously doubt we are alone in a universe of trillions and trillions of star systems. We must remember we are still somewhat primitive in the technology we have, given time and constant human curiosity we very well may develop the technology to discover other worlds. We are only just starting to find planets outside our solar system.

[Micah 16]

Yeah, Star Trek is completely wrong when it comes to intelligent life. The series acted like there's intelligent life all over the place.

Edit: Btw, that was more of an opinion than fact.

[Boggy1 45]

Micah: Still; why shouldn't there be intelligent life all over the Galaxy? Surely intelligence is the logical next step in a species' evolution?

[TRNSTN 0]

Originally posted by: SIMplMn9 I will just say this because someone was waiting for it..

Of course there is life out there.. they are currently looking for more artifacts... give us about 500 more years well make contact..

(Cue Halo music)

I'll actually put in my two cents (actually 5 due to inflation, and when comparing the dollor to other currently, I need to double it to make up the differece..)

Ok, I'll put my 20 cents in later..quote>

You would think that after 500 years we'd stop using projectile bullet weapons and seemingly gas powered vehicles. So no I don't think a Halo future would be very desirable.

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: Boggy1 Micah: Still; why shouldn't there be intelligent life all over the Galaxy? Surely intelligence is the logical next step in a species' evolution?quote>

 

Perhaps spread out from one point to one point somewhere in the galaxy... but not all over the place as Star Trek suggests. The theory of galactic filters (which already has a link on the first page of this thread) is pretty much where I stand on this issue. If we do find life on Mars (as I said earlier), it will raise a very important question: Why didn't Marsian life evolve into intelligent life as ours did?

[belfastuniguy 18]

Why didn't Marsian life evolve into intelligent life as ours did?quote>

They may have suffered an environmental collapse or something that halted development. I believe the planet did have life in the form of plants and animals but they never got the chance to evolve as a result of something happening to the planet.

I'm sure we'll know more as we study and research the planet further.

[Frankie_Grove 32]

    As passionate as a lot of you seem to be about the existence of intelligent life out there, the odds are actually against you. A lot of what so called "Evolutionist" theorize is that what happened on Earth (life) was a fluke, a freak of nature, something with such a slim chance of ever happening that it's a miracle it occurred on Earth. That being said, it is highly unlikely that there are heaps and heaps of other life forms out there. If we were in fact created, then maybe there is so much distance between stars for a reason. Why would God be limited to just Earth? Perhaps we were spaced out in this way so that we would never bump into other lifeforms (if any). No doubt an all-powerful being would 'experiment' a bit, right? Hell, anything is possible really, there could be a multitude of Gods who all have their own little worlds. Perhaps that is why we can never really know how everything started, we were not meant to know - There must be a reason why our minds can be 'limited' in that aspect.

[TheKakistocracy 0]

Where are these planets?

Last time I checked no scientist was able to find a planet that held all of the earth-like qualities.

Are these "theoretically" inhabital planets you are talking about?

Anyways the universe is finite and we are living in a gravitational timewell. Don't believe me? Google it.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Where are these planets?

Last time I checked no scientist was able to find a planet that held all of the earth-like qualities.quote>

They don't have to be 'earth-like'.

I would find it somewhat ridiculous to believe that no other planets capable of supporting life existed in this galaxy or the millions of others. We can't see them as we have not got the technology to see that far into space. That's why we have not found many. We have found some blurred planets that look similar to earth.

[teddyrised 1]

As passionate as a lot of you seem to be about the existence of intelligent life out there, the odds are actually against you. A lot of what so called "Evolutionist" theorize is that what happened on Earth (life) was a fluke, a freak of nature, something with such a slim chance of ever happening that it's a miracle it occurred on Earth.quote>

I believe this theory (and thanks for phrasing it in a very reader-friendly way, I suck at explaining theories), but I think it only applies to intelligent life. Basic organic molecules can be made from a mixture of methane, water and some other chemicals that I couldn't remember (but widely available on many planets) by zapping them with a bolt of high voltage electricity (aka lightning, when it occurs naturally). Extraterrestrial conditions may vary significantly from what we have on earth, so the evolutionary path may be completely and radically different, but there is still life out there.

However, I doubt the existence of many intelligent lifeforms. Perhaps just a few, and we are one of them. Intelligent life is most probably formed by chance (with a very slim probability of occurring).

[Something_started 5]

Edit: I looked at my post and it didn't make since.

along with North Country Dudes idea, which I’m still contemplating on the whole "God" thing, i just got the spark that maybe "image" is something like atoms or DNA or something along those lines, and who knows "God" is our "father" who knows what if we have an "uncle" and the uncle had some kids, therefore everybody’s happy we have cousins (aliens)!

We still aren’t capable of finding out a whole lot just about our “dust ball”, let alone anything outside of our solar neighborhood, the most we can do would be the equivalent of trying to examine if a bird on Mt. Everest has a runny nose and a fatal sickness from a 50x zoom camera taking one picture everyday.

[6underground 11]

One of the reasons I think Mars stunted life, was that it's core stopped being active, that meant, amongst other things that it's magnetic field ceased to be and in turn lost much of its atmosphere to space. That would have resulted in catastrophe for plants and/or organisms/animals on the surface. Also, the lack of continental plates of the planet seems somewhat... indicative that the planet was doomed from the start (of harbouring life) to me at least.

[sithlrd98 66]

As many have stated , it is very impractical - selfish that life only exists on earth and the debate of intelligent life depends on how you define intelligent. Granted , humans are in many ways more intelligent than other lifeforms on earth , but if the discovery of "human intelligent" life ever was discovered , it probably would mark the end of our society structures........  :  If God created the heavens and THE earth,(meaning only here) then created man in his image ,later  told Moses to take down the commandments ,  then man creates laws structured around Gods law , then we find out that there are "human intelligent" (or more advanced) life and that the creation story was only a story , then what is to stop someone from killing or whatever , since there no longer will  be consequences dictated by Gods law?

I ,  in no way am trying to move into the debate on If there is / isn't a God , and am not as knowledgeable as many here on such topics, just a thought that I've had for a while....

[Micah 16]

the creation story was only a storyquote>

I'm confused... how would intelligent life elsewhere prove or disprove creationism or evolution?

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Micah

I'm confused... how would intelligent life elsewhere prove or disprove creationism or evolution?quote>

I keep asking that question too.   Whatever process resulted in our being here -- evolved, created, cross-bred, whatever -- why would this be the only planet where that process happened?

[hym 358]

You're not the only one confused. I can't find see how it would disprove either.  So far as I understand, neither theory has anything wrong with life on a different world.  (That's not to say I think we'll find it, just that the theory wouldn't conflict.)

[teddyrised 1]

Same here. Discovering extraterrestrial life has really no effect on the creationism theory. They are neither complementary nor antagonistic. Anyway regarding the question of why other terrestrial (ie solid) planets in the solar system couldn't have possibly support life:

1. Mercury - no atmosphere and extremely high temperature

2. Venus - excessively high atmospheric pressure. Although some might quote that the sulphuric-acid based atmosphere helps to prevent lifeforms from existing, remember that we are assuming that life needs oxygen and water to survive.

3. Mars - thanks 6undeground for the headsup! Mars has no atmosphere due to it's weak magnetic field, causing the atmosphere to be literally 'blown' away by solar wind.

[Boggy1 45]

But again, your using life on Earth as a starting point, trying to extrapolate from it how life on other planets might evolve. There is no 'rule' that life needs oxygen or water to survive, since we only have experience with life on a single planet, its exceedingly egocentric of us to assume that whats on Earth, must be the same throughout the cosmos. You just can't assume in situations like this, as we have zero outside knowledge or experience.

[teddyrised 1]

Boggy I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I've made no assumptions that life needs oxygen or water to survive.

On a side note, in the universe where liquid methane is in abundance, and since it is a source of organic carbon, there is a high possibility that life may evolve to be adapted on liquid methane and for the satellites of Jupiter and Saturn, some of them shows volcanic activity (thus an internal source of heat) and a possible liquid ocean underneath the frozen surface - there might be life there, or if not, some basic organic molecules than can eventually evolve into lifeforms.

[Yeah_Right 2]

greetings underlings.

if we find a tiny little bacterial strain on mars, I still think the answer to 'alone in the universe?' is no.

if we find a 3 eyed, plasma guns, ufo kinda things, then the answer is yes.

with so many theoretical planets in the universe, there must be a planet similar to ours that houses intelligient life.

but they could be very primitive, or extremely developed, which reduces the chance of successful communication.

once we find life, then what?

it is likely to be too far to travel to, and travelling at the speed of light is almost out of the question.

even if we did travel at the speed of light, it will take a helluva time to travel.

well i contradicted myself about 3 times then...

but ponder those thoughts.

farewell mortals.

[TheTitanicExpert 0]

I beleive in aliens. I do beleive the government knows all about them, but doesn't tell us. I've seen many strange things in my life, and I still do. It's narrow minded to think aliens are not real.

[belfastuniguy 18]

But again, your using life on Earth as a starting point, trying to extrapolate from it how life on other planets might evolve. There is no 'rule' that life needs oxygen or water to survive, since we only have experience with life on a single planet, its exceedingly egocentric of us to assume that whats on Earth, must be the same throughout the cosmos. You just can't assume in situations like this, as we have zero outside knowledge or experience.quote>

Exactly.

[Boggy1 45]

Ah, sorry, I missunderstood your point.

[sithlrd98 66]

Originally posted by: Micah

the creation story was only a storyquote>

I'm confused... how would intelligent life elsewhere prove or disprove creationism or evolution?quote>

I think I was mis understood. I'm not saying that finding intelligent life would prove or disprove creation , I was basically saying that if it was found , there is a great possibility that because of the large amount of people believe that God only created life here and man in his image, there is a great possibility of unrest throughout the world (more than what we already have). It 's like the series Stargate , if the general public found out that there were actual intelligent lifeforms anywhere else , the circumstances would mostly prove to be dire.I know that it is just science fiction , just saying that we are not ready to find out !

Just as a side note ,I'm very open minded and do entertain the idea that life as we know it may have been brought here ,  I don't know how (have no clue ).

Also , when talking about the subject of E.T.s' and if they've been here / are here , how else did we advance so far so fast within a short period of time?  JK

[Micah 16]

God only created life herequote>

Where does it say that in the Bible?

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Micah

God only created life herequote>

Where does it say that in the Bible?quote>

He said that "a large amount of people believe that God only created life here".

As far as I know, there is no biblical basis for that belief.

But then, I know of no biblical basis for "the rapture" and lots of people believe that too.