Give Us Your DNA!

[Boggy1 45]

Ever since the advent of DNA reading, and accurate DNA profiling in the early 90s, there have been calls for a National Database showcasing every single DNA profile of every single person in the United Kingdom.

As most of you know, the UK is the country with the most number of CCTV and general surveillance cameras in the world. It is reported that somewhere on the vast amounts of video, you are able to find a record showing almost your ever movement from leaving the house in the morning, to returning in the evening, and everything in-between. Some CCTV cameras now even have mic's attached to record your conversations too.

Just last week, the EU approved a new GPS system (The Galileo Positioning System) which will have a chip inside every car and mobile (cell) phone, so that the satellites will be able to locate your every movement, show accurate routes, and even see your position inside a building, complete with an accurate map of rooms and corridors. The system is scheduled to be completed by 2013.

A natural progression from this is to record the DNA profile of every person, and place it into a database.

Currently in the UK, our National DNA Database, which was started in 1995, is growing by approximately one person per minute, with over 4 million profiles so far on permanent record, and is already the largest DNA database in the world.

In the UK, your DNA (and fingerprint) is recorded (by taking a swab to the cheeck) if you are suspected to have committed a recordable offence. Recordable offences include drunkenness, public nuisance, and other innumerable petty offences that are extremely common.
Police officers are able to swab DNA without a superior officer's permission, and, if you refuse to take the swab, then up to ten pieces of hair is extracted from your head. This is mandatory. If you are found innocent of the offence, then your DNA is still kept on permanent record (except if you live in Scotland; where it is removed).

The DNA Database has been extremely useful in solving crimes that, without it, would be unsolved even today. It is 3x more likely for a, for instance, burglary, to be solved with a DNA profile of suspects on record.

An example where DNA has been actively used to solve a crime case in the UK of Kim Newson, who went missing in Lincoln. It just so happens that several years earlier, in 1995, Steven Hughes, a serial burglar, was the first ever person to have his DNA recorded onto the brand new UK DNA Database. Hughes was living below Kim at the time, and saliva was found that matched his DNA with the DNA recorded a number of years earlier. A body was found that matched the DNA of Kim, and Hughes was found guilty, and after confessing, sentenced to life.

Another case is that of Louise Smith, who vanished after a party in 1995. After an extensive search in which over 10,000 people assisted in, her body was found, raped and murdered, in a local quarry. DNA was found on the body, and almost the entire town's population volunteered to have their DNA recorded and tested, to clear their names. It created an almost Universal Database. After a process of elimination, a match was found, and a man, who had never committed any kind of crime before, was found and convicted of murder.

But DNA testing doesn't always work. Ray Easton, a suffer of the sever motor-neuron disease Parkinson disease, was surprised one night to have police burst into his house and accuse him of burglary in a town 200 miles away. This was of course impossible in his current condition (constant, violent muscle spasms and tremors), and was made even less unlikely by the fact he had a full-time carer who swore he had never been out of her sight. And yet the DNA found at the site of the burglary matched his.

The chance of DNA profiles that are the same is very very rare, but can happen, as is evident from Ray Easton's case. His DNA marker points matched almo

[GingerBlokey 30]

Until there is a totally fool-proof system of crime detection then I will not be happy to have DNA, fingerprints or biometric scans taken and kept.

There will always be mistakes.

[simworld2 4]

I agree and there are quite alot of CCTV cameras around.

[Duke87 1,070]

Taking DNA from suspected criminals: good idea (should be removed from record if acquitted, though)

Taking DNA from anyone who volunteers it: acceptable (so long as there's no pressure or ultimatum to do so)

Taking DNA from everyone indiscriminately, no choice given: wrong

At least, that's my opinion on the matter.

[saltandsauce 0]

CCTV is like being stalked 24/7 only for some reason its legal

DNA database will be compulsory with the stupid compulsory ID card system which will record every single thing from the type of bread you eat to how often you go to the pub and how much you drink and the case several weeks ago where two disks with 1 third of the UKs personal details went missing (everyone claiming child benefits) so hmmm do i trust them

plus there is no trust to erode if it means never having a passport i will never get an ID card

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

Im sick of people going off on one about the CCTV. It is NOT everywhere, it is not true that CCTV cameras can see you leave your house and track your entire journey. It is nowhere near that bad. Its only really in public places where crimes are often commited and on private property that people have installed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Two things leap immediately to mind:

1. Invasion of privacy
2. 1984 and a eugenics program

I am sure there are other civil liberties type objections.

[DarkEldar 6]

Police officers are able to swab DNA without a superior officer's permission, and, if you refuse to take the swab, then up to ten pieces of hair is extracted from your head.quote>

What if you have no hair?

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Duke87 Taking DNA from suspected criminals: good idea (should be removed from record if acquitted, though)

Taking DNA from anyone who volunteers it: acceptable (so long as there's no pressure or ultimatum to do so)

Taking DNA from everyone indiscriminately, no choice given: wrong

At least, that's my opinion on the matter.quote>

Indeed, and it's not only a privacy problem, it's also a problem concerning the wrong usage of such an important information, I would not trust the government for keeping it unused....

[belfastuniguy 18]

Originally posted by: ILL Tonkso Im sick of people going off on one about the CCTV. It is NOT everywhere, it is not true that CCTV cameras can see you leave your house and track your entire journey. It is nowhere near that bad. Its only really in public places where crimes are often commited and on private property that people have installed.quote>

 

I agree with you. CCTV does not 'track' me when I leave home, there is no CCTV anywhere near me, bar private houses that have them on gates etc. I'm certainly not tracked though.

I don't care about the number of CCTV in the UK, to be honest the vast majority are placed in busy areas, city centres etc etc and I welcome that fact it does help reduce crime and make people feel safer as well as attempting to combat social disorder. 

If you fee; you are being 'stalked' then maybe you need a reality check and if you fear them, then you must be hiding something.

In regard to the DNA database, until there exists a pretty full-proof system then I will oppose it, I have no issues with collecting DNA from criminals and those arrested or those that willingly donate it. Please remember some of the longest criminal cases in the UK whether murder or rape have been recently solved with the help of DNA collection. I for one have no problems with those being arrested having their data stored, if you break the law then so what........

I trust the police, don't have a reason not to, Northern Ireland has one of the most accountable police forces in the world given our past and as such have no reason to fear misuse of information.

[BurroDiablo 222]

I don't know why people are so paranoid... so what if they know what colour your Underwear is? Its not the hard to stay inside the law... stick to the rules and you won't get in any trouble with the rozzers.

CCTV isn't really invasion of Privacy either... most CCTV camera's are in obviously Public places, not Private Places... when they start installing them in Homes, then i'll be pretty concerned.

They don't need to install CCTV in homes anyway, since their Tapping our Phones and reading our Emails.... in the next Phone conversation you have, say 'Bomb - London - Parliament - Brown - Death - Infidels' all in once sentance then count the seconds it takes for the SAS to burst through your door

[coolotter88 2]

it is a problem when someone knows what color your underwear is when you don't want them to know. not everyone needs to know all of your secrets (even dirty).

[belfastuniguy 18]

@ El Burro, the UK does not read your email, that is illegal under European Law, they may do it in America but the UK government can't do that. They also do not tap every single persons telephone, only those the intelligence services sees as a threat, otherwise that is also illegal. If someone wants to put CCTV in their own home then no-one can stop them, its personal property and I see nothing wrong with it. We don't have it in the house, we do have a camera at the gates to the house, but a large number of houses near me do, it's simply personal preference and certainly nothing to worry about.

The UK is not some 1984esque society that some think. People are far too paranoid these days.

[KingTitan 6]

Boggy...are you quoting verbatim???? LOL. I read that almost exact synopsis before.. 

It was debunked.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Originally posted by: Duke87 Taking DNA from suspected criminals: good idea (should be removed from record if acquitted, though)

Taking DNA from anyone who volunteers it: acceptable (so long as there's no pressure or ultimatum to do so)

Taking DNA from everyone indiscriminately, no choice given: wrong

At least, that's my opinion on the matter.quote>

 

That's actually a good opinion... I can definitely agree with that.  I wouldn't want my DNA out there for everyone to see, but I won't be against have a convicted felon's DNA on file.

[Frankie_Grove 32]

Wasn't there a recent leak of a lot of personal information within the UK?

...I would certainly hope this database is much better protected than the system that leaked the info, eh?

[belfastuniguy 18]

Wasn't leaked, a disc was lost, was more about incompetence

I'm pretty sure such a database would be secure than benefit records.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Duke87 Taking DNA from suspected criminals: good idea (should be removed from record if acquitted, though)

Taking DNA from anyone who volunteers it: acceptable (so long as there's no pressure or ultimatum to do so)

Taking DNA from everyone indiscriminately, no choice given: wrong

At least, that's my opinion on the matter.quote>

Sounds good for the most part.  I'm not sure if there is a need to collect DNA evidence if the person is busted for something like gambling on horses.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

I cannot believe there are those who think this is a good idea. Here's a big 'what if' based on true history:

1)Records made

2)'you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong'....

3)Sudden, catastrophic regime change, like Nazism or Bolsheviks, or even Muslim extremists....

4)'Haha suckers, we hate you and we have all your info'.

5)Firing squads and mass graves.

Just because you are doing nothing wrong right now, doesn't mean what you do won't be illegal tomorrow. You cannot take back the records once the gov't has them.

And anyone who trusts a gov't who wants to do this deserves whatever oppression they get. Too bad it will be too late for the rest of us who knew better. 

To the lefties: Would you trust GWB with your DNA record?

[belfastuniguy 18]

@manticorefan. This is in relation to the UK where we have one of the longest and most stable democracies in world history as well as not having a history of fascism, extreme nationalism or dictatorship.

Not saying such a thing would not happen but in the UK but highly unlikely as we certain systems in place, i.e a monarch....I also don't see that changing for a very very very long time.

Maybe it could happen in the US, but not in the UK or I'm sure within the EU

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: manticorefan I cannot believe there are those who think this is a good idea. Here's a big 'what if' based on true history:

1)Records made

2)'you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong'....

3)Sudden, catastrophic regime change, like Nazism or Bolsheviks, or even Muslim extremists....

4)'Haha suckers, we hate you and we have all your info'.

5)Firing squads and mass graves.

Just because you are doing nothing wrong right now, doesn't mean what you do won't be illegal tomorrow. You cannot take back the records once the gov't has them.

And anyone who trusts a gov't who wants to do this deserves whatever oppression they get. Too bad it will be too late for the rest of us who knew better. quote>

There is an unspeakable amount of wisdom here. Read that, and read it well.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Recent example from history:  All those STASI records found in east Berlin after the reunification are now in the hands of the German government.  Maybe good, maybe not.