The Official Global Warming/Climate Change Thread

[confused04 14]

Please refrain from using "American" as a negative term, its offensive and ignorant.

Second... ignorance is not limited to Americans, I have found that it is global and European policies are highly quite misleading anyway. 

I do agree that sourcing would really help any arguments made.

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy Allow me to further explain my point.  Listed below are links to two different sites on the NOAA website.  The first is a map for Air quality for the US, the second is a temperature readout, in ferenheit.  Take note of the ares with poor air quality, and those with high temperatures, and you will see quite a trend.  Ohio, North and South Carolina, and Colorado, all have fair and poor air quality today, and also abnormally high temperatures today.  I hope this drives the point home, here.

The Air Quality map:

http://www.weather.gov/aq/

The Temperature map:

http://www.weather.gov/climate/

[EDIT: When you look at the air quality map, have a looksee at the 11am reading, then mouse over to 5pm, you will notice that the Dayton/Springfield area of Ohio (southwest Ohio) as some of the highest concentrations in the nation right now, and we are setting record temperatures today]

Enjoy...quote>

Your argument actually falls flat factually. You are linking air quality as the independent variable where the temperature varies in response to air quality. If you intend otherwise, please reword your paragraph.  But as written, you are saying that the air quality causes higher temperatures.  This is not true. It works the other way around. High temperatures reduce air quality.  If you note air quality versus season, air quality decreases in the summer due to the temperature.  I don't exactly know the mechanism at this instant, but many of the chemicals that cause low air quality form at higher temperatures and in the presence of high UV (photo-oxidation of ozone).

[panthersimcity4 162]

From a spiritual perspective, I think it's stupid to pollute the earth and destroy nature. I mean, it's as if we think we know better than God, and we don't need his crappy nature. Of course humans cause it! Who else... kittens?    Come on, anyone who knows the Bible knows that humans are a giant scar on the face of the earth, and we're the reason why the Earth is so terrible!

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Originally posted by: confused04 Please refrain from using "American" as a negative term, its offensive and ignorant.

Second... ignorance is not limited to Americans, I have found that it is global and European policies are highly quite misleading anyway. 

I do agree that sourcing would really help any arguments made.

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy Allow me to further explain my point.  Listed below are links to two different sites on the NOAA website.  The first is a map for Air quality for the US, the second is a temperature readout, in ferenheit.  Take note of the ares with poor air quality, and those with high temperatures, and you will see quite a trend.  Ohio, North and South Carolina, and Colorado, all have fair and poor air quality today, and also abnormally high temperatures today.  I hope this drives the point home, here.

The Air Quality map:

http://www.weather.gov/aq/

The Temperature map:

http://www.weather.gov/climate/

[EDIT: When you look at the air quality map, have a looksee at the 11am reading, then mouse over to 5pm, you will notice that the Dayton/Springfield area of Ohio (southwest Ohio) as some of the highest concentrations in the nation right now, and we are setting record temperatures today]

Enjoy...quote>

Your argument actually falls flat factually. You are linking air quality as the independent variable where the temperature varies in response to air quality. If you intend otherwise, please reword your paragraph.  But as written, you are saying that the air quality causes higher temperatures.  This is not true. It works the other way around. High temperatures reduce air quality.  If you note air quality versus season, air quality decreases in the summer due to the temperature.  I don't exactly know the mechanism at this instant, but many of the chemicals that cause low air quality form at higher temperatures and in the presence of high UV (photo-oxidation of ozone).quote>

So if high temeratures cause the decreased air quality, and not the billions of cars on the road, then why is the air quality so low around major metropolitan centers?  Certainly, if it were temperature that causes these problems, then Arizona would be one huge slab of deep orange on that map, not light yellow and blue.

"American", whether you like it or not, has become the international laughing stalk.  Mostly because of our wonderful government. I just call it as I see it.  It is a fact, that America does not have as nearly a developed mass transit system as the rest of the world, simply because our "freedom" has made us so lazy that we refuse to use mass transit, unless absolutely necessary.

Panther: please, let's not bring religion into this discussion, read the thread rules... This is a political discussion.

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

(Continued...)

If you notice, Arizona is also the same temperature as Ohio at the current time (within 3 degrees F, which is negligible), but it doesn't have even close to the amount of poor air quality that Ohio has at the present time.  Explain that one for me?  Just a guess, but I'd say it has to do something with the density of vehicles in the region, not air and surface temperature.  In this particular religion, we have one continuous metropolitan area stretching from Cincinnatti, to Dayton, to Columbus.  This is why the readings are so high around this area.  Arizona, however, is, for the most part, a desolate wasteland, with the exception of Tuscon, and some other very small communities, not anywhere near the populatation density that we have here.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[panthersimcity4 162]

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy

Originally posted by: confused04 Please refrain from using "American" as a negative term, its offensive and ignorant.

Second... ignorance is not limited to Americans, I have found that it is global and European policies are highly quite misleading anyway. 

I do agree that sourcing would really help any arguments made.

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy Allow me to further explain my point.  Listed below are links to two different sites on the NOAA website.  The first is a map for Air quality for the US, the second is a temperature readout, in ferenheit.  Take note of the ares with poor air quality, and those with high temperatures, and you will see quite a trend.  Ohio, North and South Carolina, and Colorado, all have fair and poor air quality today, and also abnormally high temperatures today.  I hope this drives the point home, here.

The Air Quality map:

http://www.weather.gov/aq/

The Temperature map:

http://www.weather.gov/climate/

[EDIT: When you look at the air quality map, have a looksee at the 11am reading, then mouse over to 5pm, you will notice that the Dayton/Springfield area of Ohio (southwest Ohio) as some of the highest concentrations in the nation right now, and we are setting record temperatures today]

Enjoy...quote>

Your argument actually falls flat factually. You are linking air quality as the independent variable where the temperature varies in response to air quality. If you intend otherwise, please reword your paragraph.  But as written, you are saying that the air quality causes higher temperatures.  This is not true. It works the other way around. High temperatures reduce air quality.  If you note air quality versus season, air quality decreases in the summer due to the temperature.  I don't exactly know the mechanism at this instant, but many of the chemicals that cause low air quality form at higher temperatures and in the presence of high UV (photo-oxidation of ozone).quote>

So if high temeratures cause the decreased air quality, and not the billions of cars on the road, then why is the air quality so low around major metropolitan centers?  Certainly, if it were temperature that causes these problems, then Arizona would be one huge slab of deep orange on that map, not light yellow and blue.

"American", whether you like it or not, has become the international laughing stalk.  Mostly because of our wonderful government. I just call it as I see it.  It is a fact, that America does not have as nearly a developed mass transit system as the rest of the world, simply because our "freedom" has made us so lazy that we refuse to use mass transit, unless absolutely necessary.

Panther: please, let's not bring religion into this discussion, read the thread rules... This is a political discussion.quote>

Sorry!

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Its ok y'all... I just don't want the thread metamorphizing into a creation v. evolution thread, as these things tend to boil down to. ( I am religious myself, but 'm just trying to avoid a flame war about religion)

[confused04 14]

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy

So if high temeratures cause the decreased air quality, and not the billions of cars on the road, then why is the air quality so low around major metropolitan centers?  Certainly, if it were temperature that causes these problems, then Arizona would be one huge slab of deep orange on that map, not light yellow and blue.

"American", whether you like it or not, has become the international laughing stalk.  Mostly because of our wonderful government. I just call it as I see it.  It is a fact, that America does not have as nearly a developed mass transit system as the rest of the world, simply because our "freedom" has made us so lazy that we refuse to use mass transit, unless absolutely necessary.

Panther: please, let's not bring religion into this discussion, read the thread rules... This is a political discussion.quote>

The reason why it occurs in metropolitan areas and not in the stifling desert south west is because you need a SOURCE of pollution to create the bad air quality, temperatures just make it worse. As the desert southwest is for the most part relatively empty, there isn't much in the way of source pollution to be exacerbated by high temperatures. As I said earlier, UV and temperatures can cause the creation of toxic chemicals, but they need reactants to make a product. In the clean air of the desert south west, you only have natural ingredients such as nitrogen, oxygen, CO2 and other trace gases to work with where in Ohio, you have many chemicals such as methane, sulfuric acid, other sulfates and many many many more that kinda create a soup of sorts for temperatures to make a little home made chemistry set out of. If you flipped the population density, it would easily occur in the middle of the desert.

Although you might be correct about the lack of mass transit in America, using the nationality as an insult is still highly offensive and we'd like to move beyond that at Simtropolis, especially since it doesn't help solve the greater threat of environmental degradation and global warming.  And to be fair, Europe's density is condusive to mass transit.  No one wants to take a 4 hour train ride in the US which in American terms is actually a "short ride" where in the UK, 4 hours can get you from London to Middlesbrough clear across the country. In terms of urban mass  transit, yea, I agree, we suck at it but we are improving. It all had to do with dollars and cents and because the US and room to expand its cities beyond reasonable limits by building cheaper highways and have ridiculously low gas prices, it only made economic sense.  By the time we realized we might have a huge problem, the interstate system had already been completed and in use.

[ShortStraw 1]

If you feel really strongly about the global warming issue you could always try Freeganism.  Dumpster diving to save the planet.  Heady stuff

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: confused04

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy

So if high temeratures cause the decreased air quality, and not the billions of cars on the road, then why is the air quality so low around major metropolitan centers?  Certainly, if it were temperature that causes these problems, then Arizona would be one huge slab of deep orange on that map, not light yellow and blue.

"American", whether you like it or not, has become the international laughing stalk.  Mostly because of our wonderful government. I just call it as I see it.  It is a fact, that America does not have as nearly a developed mass transit system as the rest of the world, simply because our "freedom" has made us so lazy that we refuse to use mass transit, unless absolutely necessary.

Panther: please, let's not bring religion into this discussion, read the thread rules... This is a political discussion.quote>

The reason why it occurs in metropolitan areas and not in the stifling desert south west is because you need a SOURCE of pollution to create the bad air quality, temperatures just make it worse. As the desert southwest is for the most part relatively empty, there isn't much in the way of source pollution to be exacerbated by high temperatures. As I said earlier, UV and temperatures can cause the creation of toxic chemicals, but they need reactants to make a product. In the clean air of the desert south west, you only have natural ingredients such as nitrogen, oxygen, CO2 and other trace gases to work with where in Ohio, you have many chemicals such as methane, sulfuric acid, other sulfates and many many many more that kinda create a soup of sorts for temperatures to make a little home made chemistry set out of. If you flipped the population density, it would easily occur in the middle of the desert.

Although you might be correct about the lack of mass transit in America, using the nationality as an insult is still highly offensive and we'd like to move beyond that at Simtropolis, especially since it doesn't help solve the greater threat of environmental degradation and global warming.  And to be fair, Europe's density is condusive to mass transit.  No one wants to take a 4 hour train ride in the US which in American terms is actually a "short ride" where in the UK, 4 hours can get you from London to Middlesbrough clear across the country. In terms of urban mass  transit, yea, I agree, we suck at it but we are improving. It all had to do with dollars and cents and because the US and room to expand its cities beyond reasonable limits by building cheaper highways and have ridiculously low gas prices, it only made economic sense.  By the time we realized we might have a huge problem, the interstate system had already been completed and in use.quote>

 

Another factor is the amount of concrete or better a lack of green spaces that would absorb some of the heat and not reflect it back. Concentration of the polutants is another, the vast number of cars and such compared to rural areas were the # of cars/ Sq Mile is much much lower then in metro areas.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: ShortStraw If you feel really strongly about the global warming issue you could always try Freeganism.  Dumpster diving to save the planet.  Heady stuff quote>

 

How very funny! To be so rebellious against society that one would garbage picking for food when they don't have to!  They are really trivializing those who do this out of necessity, i.e. the homeless. Remember the Simpsons episode where Ed Begley jr. drives a car powered by his own self-righteousness? These people could start a filling station! I wonder if they can dumpster-dive some healthcare when they get food poisoning? These people are  living by the sayings of Lisa Simpson lol.

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4    Come on, anyone who knows the Bible knows that humans are a giant scar on the face of the earth, and we're the reason why the Earth is so terrible!quote>

Um, the Bible says that The Son of God died for us. I don't see Him doing that for a 'scar'.  I have as much contempt for humanity as the next guy, but there's nothing Biblical about misanthropy. It is the nonbelievers who consider humanity a 'plague', 'infestation', or *insert favorite unfavorable metaphor here*. If you hate mankind that much, my advice is to stay away from mirrors.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

Oh god, it's happened... This is why, people, the thread rules say not to discuss religion... We are getting horrendously off-topic here.  If you would like to discuss religion and global warming, please, by all means, make your own thread about it, I may even join in on the conversation, but there are rules in this thread...

Anyways, confused04, this makes sense now, I had it all confused... I did some research afterwards (no, not wikipedia ) and found that you were right.  I just found it a bit more than a cowinkydink that the air quality was worse over the major metropolitan areas, and better over the deserts. I concede... (*runs away with tail between legs*)

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

I guess going off-topic for a post or two is a good way to get a thread fired up...

To pull it back towards energy and pollution issues; Former Chrysler Chairman Bob Lutz says automobiles will ultimately be powered by fuel cells, and that electrics and hybrids are just a transition toward that.

[Micah 16]

So about that Global Warming....

[Easy Bakes 253]

Does anyone besides me think this push to ramp up ethanol and biodiesel

production will just make things worse then they already are?

when they start choping down more trees to clear land for soy and corn to make it?

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Does anyone besides me think this push to ramp up ethanol and biodiesel

production will just make things worse then they already are?

when they start choping down more trees to clear land for soy and corn to make it?

quote>

 

It's already affecting world food prices...

[Easy Bakes 253]

Pplus the fact they wont be doing this here in the US

Since it would be much cheaper to do it in Honduras or Brazil were labor and land are cheep.

[Micah 16]

It's also causing the rainforest to fall apart at an even quicker rate.

[Bluebeard 0]

I get a bang out of folks talking about the enviroment problems like it just happened yesterday and how you think 1 country can solve this problem.

       Folks talk is cheap so instead of flapping your lips do something about it.Also remember the old mighty dollar is more important then clear air and water.

[ShortStraw 1]

Originally posted by: Bluebeard I get a bang out of folks talking about the enviroment problems like it just happened yesterday and how you think 1 country can solve this problem.

       Folks talk is cheap so instead of flapping your lips do something about it.Also remember the old mighty dollar is more important then clear air and water.quote>

I don't think anyone has stated here that one country can solve this problem.  I think most folks agree that it's a global issue regardless of how they may feel about how important the issue is or how valid.

Talk may indeed be cheap (though I personally don't think so) but you have to start somewhere eh?  Action has to start with awareness.  The fact that this is a topic in a gaming forum is a good sign.  It means people are noticing, paying attention, waking up.  Talk is maybe the most important thing we can do to keep this issue at the forefront of our minds and threads such as this one are really handy for that.  The discussion about ethanol and biodiesels affecting the world food supply for example, I hadn't considered that angle before.  It makes me realize that those options are not really solutions at all but just oil companies and politicos "throwing the dog a bone". As far as actually doing something, did you see my earlier post with the link to Freeganism?  Now those folks are doing something.

Finally, as important as the Almighty dollar is, it'll eventually have to take a back seat to air we can breathe and water we can drink.

[Bluebeard 0]

Shortstraw,

   It's a little late to be waking up the damage has been done.The day when folks start using public transportation,stop chopping forest down for another housing development or big box store then I'll agree that folks are waking up.

    The sign has been on the wall for a long time and it's just now that folks are reading it.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Instead of finding other things to burn to power our vehicles

mabey another type of engine is needed.

not that theres anything out there to right now replace combustion engines but we need to find it.

[Bluebeard 0]

Easybakes,

    Your theory sounds good but do the American auto makers really want to cut there ties to the big oil companies and do you really think a affordable auto with a different engine is really possible?.

   When the gas shortage happened that was the wake up call to dump the oil companies.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Bluebeard 0]

Do you think the UAW cares about global problems?.Everytime the UAW wants more of this or that it's the American consumer that pays the price thus it's nearly impossible to match Toyota or Honda on a affordable auto.
      Remember it was Honda who built the first Hydrogen auto.

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Bluebeard 0]

What need to happened is joint effort between the Government and the Auto Makers.Remember money talks so some sort of tax break for Auto Makers who build cleaner autos and a tax break for consumers buying these new cleaner autos.

     Plus the Insurance industry can offer breaks on auto insurance for driving clean autos.

[schm0 27]

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy Allow me to further explain my point.  Listed below are links to two different sites on the NOAA website.  The first is a map for Air quality for the US, the second is a temperature readout, in ferenheit.  Take note of the ares with poor air quality, and those with high temperatures, and you will see quite a trend.  Ohio, North and South Carolina, and Colorado, all have fair and poor air quality today, and also abnormally high temperatures today.  I hope this drives the point home, here.

The Air Quality map:

http://www.weather.gov/aq/

The Temperature map:

http://www.weather.gov/climate/

[EDIT: When you look at the air quality map, have a looksee at the 11am reading, then mouse over to 5pm, you will notice that the Dayton/Springfield area of Ohio (southwest Ohio) as some of the highest concentrations in the nation right now, and we are setting record temperatures today]

Enjoy...quote>

Global mean temperatures have increased since temperatures were recorded.  Perhaps this is not an isolated event, just relegated to Ohio, North and South Carolina and Colorado? I live in Detroit, and last week we had temperatures in the 80's which set records as well. They had to abort the Chicago Marathon because of over-exerted racers due to the record-high temperatures, and one man died of heart failure during the race. 250+ people had to hospitalized because of this phenomenon.

Originally posted by: saltandsauce the way it has been is temperature increases for whatever reason then carbon dioxide follows it due to the increased number of animals and such this is the same case now temperature goes up first THEN carbon dioxide emissions

plus hybrid cars are the leading polluter of smug

take the bus like a scaffquote>

If you could cite a source, I would gladly look into this completely ridiculous falsehood.

Originally posted by: confused04 Please refrain from using "American" as a negative term, its offensive and ignorant.

Second... ignorance is not limited to Americans, I have found that it is global and European policies are highly quite misleading anyway.quote>

I second this motion. Not all Americans are bumbling idiots who believe in destroying the environment. (Not so sure about your comments on Europeans, however. I believe that Europe has it's own share of environmental pundits on both sides of the issue.)

I do agree that sourcing would really help any arguments made.

...High temperatures reduce air quality.  If you note air quality versus season, air quality decreases in the summer due to the temperature.  I don't exactly know the mechanism at this instant, but many of the chemicals that cause low air quality form at higher temperatures and in the presence of high UV (photo-oxidation of ozone).quote>

Higher temperatures mean more people using their car and home air conditioners, which in turn demands more energy to be produced, both of which release more smog and other toxins into the air. [SOURCE][SOURCE]

(Here's an excellent non-profit dedicated to such air-quality issues.)

Originally posted by: Psycho_Teddy

So if high temeratures cause the decreased air quality, an