david1314

Don't apologize! The tutorials were great. I was just saying that page 21 of a show us your thread wouldn't really be the first place I would look to find one... And for those of you still looking, he's posted them here at the bottom of the page: https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=23&threadid=75821&STARTPAGE=8

Originally posted by: Yeah_Right i think the government should spend their resources on poverty or something.quote> I think the government should spend the record company's money on poverty or something!

No, they're good tutorials...I'm saying they should be put somewhere that they'll be seen as tutorials. The mods do have a 'split thread' option, you know...

Can someone hack this thread apart? It's becomeing more a tutorial than a 'show us your...' thread. Thanks.

Ummm....still this isn't illegal. Again, copyrights apply only to intent to resell. While the provision of music (with commercial intent--add revenue or direct sale) may constitute 'piracy', the act of downloading is not at all illegal. So, when someone says 'illegal download', they're misinformed about the law. The only thing that may (and I stress may) be illegal is commercial uploading. I think we all understand the ridiculous precedent courts are avoiding by ruling in favor of music companies...that communicating an ordered string of 0s and 1s (the most basic, reducible form of human communication we are aware of...) will never be considered illegal in nations where free speech is held dear.

I've cleaned this up quite a bit and shown Bridge Station more accurately. Previously, it was not obvious which way the train would arrive at the platforms at Bridge, this allows users to see if transfers depart from the same platform or the opposite. A few more station names have been finalized. Some still show a * signifying the name is not final. Here's the original so you can see updates. (click for full size)

Originally posted by: toxicpiano For all the people screaming 'bs', another source:..quote>toxicpiano, no one doubts the legitimacy of the article, they doubt the sincerity of EA... And I applaud the community for spotting the wolf dressed (poorly) in sheep's clothing.

I wanted to see some of the Seven Sisters buildings from Moscow in SC4 for some time now, but have never come across one nor attempted to BAT one. I thought I'd dust off my old BAT and give it a try, and I was surprised with how far I got. This is what I have so far: I cannot find pictures of the street level for any side but the main entrance, or pictures showing the lowest levels where the tower comes out of the wings. Also, I cannot figure out exactly how far back the setback is on the tower.

Ok, I've had enough of this for one day. I hope to work on this some more on the weekend or next week.

Well, school and work both hit this week...progress has ground nearly to a halt...*sigh* Anyway, I have made small gains with it, here's a look at what I plan (er...have done...) for the back side of the building. And I did to a test render by rescaling the X and Y axises to about 73%. This has more to do with fitting it onto the lot size I want than getting the proportions perfect, but it certainly looks nearer the real thing. I'm thinking that scaling the Z axis down from where it is in this image about 92-94% will give nice proportions: Edit: The quality is not bad because of scale being too small, the quality is poor because I set it to low to render quickly since proportions is the important thing.

Wow... $65CAD?...er...which is actually about $65USD....weak ass dollar That's super cheap. I would drop Cable TV and Internet in a second to get this for half the price! ZOMG...this is about what I pay for my cable interweb!

I've worked a bit more on this: I'm not sure at all what the bottom of the back side of the building looks like though. With the real building, it is buried behind buildings, and isn't particularly visible. Unless someone knows of something different on the back, I'm just going to follow the same pattern from the 'wings' or corner sections without adding the additional stepback... It looks like the real thing has the tower going all the way to the ground with no stepbacks, but if I do that, the area between the wings will look very deep, and I think it will look uncomfortable in SC4.

SILUR! THANK YOU! Picture 3 shows everything I needed! #4 shows a lot of useful details too! Sipio: Yeah, that was the first time I saw anything in render too...it really looked squashed! Since I started without a good diagram and was using proportions to estimate the size of each (and now that I can see the stepback in the pics above, I've gotten it proportionally quite near). I was thinking I'd stretch it the 133% standard, but even that looks like it might be too little. I'll have to see where it comes up to other buildings in the game. I have been 'adjusting' a few proportions of the building to make it more SC4 friendly (avoiding excessive concavity and trying to minimize extended roof sections), so it's not a perfect copy of the original. El Burro and Za, thanks for dropping by, thought you two might poke your head in And El Burro: Russian buildings are becoming more popular. I really want to see more of the seven sisters and similar buildings elsewhere (I really want Moscow State Uni, Unkraina Hotel Moscow, and the Warsaw Palace of Culture); but this seems a bit more manageable than the larger projects. Hopefully, someone will follow in my footsteps!

There are a couple of ways to do that. To keep mine consistent, I used a circle and just hacked out 1/4 or 1/8 sections for 90* and 45* turns. You can also use the Bezier curve tool...every image program has one. Personally not familiar with 'toshop though, don't know where to point you with that. It won't be consistent, unless you copy & paste, but it should be good a smooth.

Ok, thats kinda the same page I'm on...and what I had pretty much assumed. It seems that when Maxis coded the game (and correct me if you know this to be wrong) what they have termed a 'Maximum Commute Time', is in fact a 9X% interval into which commuters will fall within a normal curve. So it is in no way an actual maximum, but rather a statistical average near an apparent maximum. If the engine is statistically based rather than mathematically based, it would stand to reason that local commute times would rate desireability based upon regional commute averages (I'm not speaking in SC4 terms here, but in real world terms). For example, Hoboken, NJ, part of the NY metro has a massive average commute (highest in nation), but it is still prime real-estate being across the Hudson from NYC. Whereas the same commute time for some tiny city would (quite legitimately) result in abandonment from the city. And here is where the theoretical issue comes in: One of the proximate causes for creation of a work-around for the SC4 path engine is the abandonment of adverse commute locations. The solution to this problem is (assuming relative figures) equalization of commute times across a city. This can be achieved through one of two methods, speeding up the slow guys, or slowing down the fast guys. By reducing the average commute of commuters to the baseline that maxis has applied (without increased statistical variation based on increased commute), you have effectively equaled out the commute times to within some minimum threshold (it appears)...the same that would apply to a brand new city or one without transit engine experience. What I have done flies in the face of what most tend to assume of SC4: The way to reduce abandonment is to increased commute times. By doing this sufficiently, we can push the distribution curve of traffic distances to longer times and thus get longer commutes with the same engine. If we use real cities as a case study, we find the most livable cities on earth, Boston, New York, London, Paris, Denver, LA...(the list goes on)...also tend to have the longest commutes. I do understand the whole range of additional issue this mod addresses, but I think all of the above is 1) overlooked regularly (if not by you than by others); 2) true; and 3) relevant to this discussion... Jplumbley... I hope this has been somewhat enlightening for you. I have put more time and effort into this than you seem to think I have. ^actually, I do understand the amount of time and effort into this (and know I do not have the motivation to do so...I can't develop stuff without breaking into playing for fun only)...I think you are guilty of underestimating my observations and time put into it with regards to this. Nothing above was particularly new or mind-blowing to me--I knew about the 6 month commute cycles, I know actual limitation of paths is a good way to limit routes...the only thing I didn't know (but assumed) was that sims are indiscriminately passed as a group to neighbor connections rather than as individuals. I also know on the Beta testing thread you directed me to, not a single person had a peak commute of greater than 60...I regularly have 90-110 and shoot to maintain about 120.

PhilsCafe: There's a lot of curves in here, you're going to have to be more specific... mkaustin: Here is a view of the region...cleverly, I have left the city boundaries off of it, but the region is 7x4 tiles...that gives an idea of the rail and street maps...and to a lesser extent the subway. https://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z316/rotaryspd/NewDenver.jpg For the subway map, the area between Plaza and Governors (oops, misspelled on map) is about 1.5 mi and stations are about every 400yds (they are geographically shown in blue with white "M"s in the street map). This pattern continues down to the Carter* terminus, which is about 1 mi from Governors. Eastmoth is about 3 mi from Bridge, and Dempsey Jcn is about 4.5 mi from Plaza

GingerBlokey: I'm a fan of the layout. I must admit, The angles look a bit arbitrary to me, but are nevertheless very cool. Bennedict, another fantastic work from you. It's really neat to see the evolution! Also, it's fun to see someone comment along the lines (pun indended ) of Transit Maps of the World Legalizeit: You've got a very nice color scheme there. It's a good looking map. Khorasaurus1: You're map is quite good in the information it contains, but it could use some fine tuning. If you joined all the lines up properly to the exact pixel in the image, it would look very nice. And its a shame no one else is commenting.... Oh well, we will enjoy our maps together! Now, a few from me. These are the same maps as above, but I have anti-aliased them FAR better, and they look....presentable. Streets Here for large version Subway: Rail Connections: Here for large version

^ Nothing was changed.... That is SC4's standard simulator. It's not like I modified the maximum...it's like there is no maximum.

Originally posted by: Neddiggis Originally posted by: david1314It was described as an absolute maximum. It isn't.quote> Where, can you quote Jason saying the please cos I haven't found that. He has said that it's not absolute... and that it can be exceeded. quote> the term 'maximum' is absolute unless qualified. A 'mathematical maximum' is a simply mathematical calculation and is absolute on the above....math is logical, exceeding a maximum is not logical, ergo a mathematical maximum is absolute. We can argue semantics all we want, but a maximum that can be exceeded is not a maximum...per se And finally, I never said jplumbley said it was absolute (though it does appear that was his intention), but every reference I've seen to it on the forums by others have assumed its absolute.

Originally posted by: jplumbley But anyway, back to my original point, where's this "cumulative maximum commute" from?quote> If you would like to challenge me, please read the work Mott and I did, then do the calculations and come up with your own interpretations, I will be willing to debate with you then. But I do not appreciate your comment about our theory being flawed when you havent done the research to proove that we are wrong. You have taken special cases in which both are not technically the way it works, although its the way you observe it because you have not researched it. quote> It was described as an absolute maximum. It isn't. It's not that I'm debating...I'm stating fact. And also, I don't think the theory is flawed...I agree whole-heartedly, I know it's quite a laborious task to work around the maxis imposed commute limits. But I also know it can be done. All of these are pedestrian only, and use only transit networks and not TE lots. Depending on how you count diagonals, the lengths vary, but one is certainly at least 10 tiles (not counting the second diag tile): ^ Research! Edit: Also, regarding few and far between, note that three adjacent homes all have a ped commute over 7. Edit again: I'm certain this can be regularly exceeded based on the adverse commute condition (which all of those exist in; you can see the one-ways limit close traffic). These are consistent, established commutes. But they are very localized within each city. My city has NO abandonment, and a tiny percentage of dilapidation. The average commute time is around 90. So, we come back to my original question. Where does this cumulative maximum commute come from? (Is it an EA defined variable? Was it figured out by others from game code and then named without verification from EA? Was it figured out by observation through game play?) I don't think it to be an actual maximum, but more like an average maximum...Or a deviation by which 9X% fall within...But it does not appear to be a firm maximum as it can be exceeded without concequence. Edit (once more for the second post): Originally posted by: jplumbley I have spent 2 and a half months in this Simulator and if I have done something wrong, please find it and tell me what I did wrong. I dont want you to just being stating "I think the premise of your research is wrong." Proove it, because there is noone else out there who can, and I dont doubt that we could be interpretting our findings wrong, but I do know that these Simulators have prooved to be better than those in the past. And it has nothing to do with just the simple fact that the *general rule* is that Sims will walk 7 tiles to get to a bus stop.quote> Don't put word in my mouth! I never said the general premise was wrong...I never said ANYTHING in general was wrong. I very specifically identified the cumulative maximum commute as perhaps having an error in how it was considered as an actual maximum as opposed to a statistical approximate maximum. It tends to suggest the math should be based upon a bell-curve rather than a plateau (or curved plateau) that would exist with an absolu

Originally posted by: jplumbleyHere is another tidbit of information I did not give you, your bus trip does not count... ... quote>*sigh* I put in there the pic was convenient and not representative of the actual ped-only commutes that I know to exist. I read through the other thread, and it certainly is consistent with many of my own observations in 5 years of playing the game. I like the premise of the mod, but see no reason for it mainly because successive versions of it have come out while I'm mid-way through a region and the maxis commute faults can be worked around (in my experience). I'm wondering where this "cumulative maximum commute" comes from though. If indeed it is a hard game variable, it is subject to modification relative to average commute time. (i.e. by raising the average commute time of a city, what were once undesirable locations due to commute time become desirable while retaining the exact same commute...) If it's a constant derived by working backwards into the de facto limit, it was not researched to the extreme. I know commutes across approximately 3 cities (from far edge of one large city, across a second, and into a third large city and to the far side of it). I'm certain of this commute because I can calculate exactly how many sims are from city 1, and city 2 as they enter city 3. Unfortunately, in city 3, because sims enter from both city 2 and 1 (via 2), I cannot track their origins. The no. of total sims travelling from 2 to 3 (including from 1 via 2) and continue to the far side is greater than the no. of sims from city 2 only to 3 (not including 1 via 2). So I'm certain some of city 1's sims make it to the far side of three. While some sims from city 2 do travel on to city 4 (via 3), the number does not exceed that of 2 only to 3, so I'm not certain sims from city 1 travel to city 4, but nor am I certain they don't. Based on the fact I know each inter-city commute is not subject to some all-encompassing regional calculation, I would assume it is aggregated from one city to the next....perhaps someone could clarify this? That's one case where I think the premise of the theory to be flawed. The other is in pedestrian commutes. Perhaps you are right they are the exception to the rule when they exceed 11 tiles (I'm certain I have seen my own cities with 12+ tile ped-only commutes)...they were far from regular in the city, but at the same time, the were not difficult to find. If they are the exception, the rule is very loosely enforced, and the exceptions are not rarities by any means (and could probably be expected to reflect real city percentages of ped-only commutes). I'm not denying they only occur in adverse commute situations, but if expediency of auto-traffic through a city is not a priority, the maxis commutes can reasonably simulate longer commutes. But anyway, back to my original point, where's this "cumulative maximum commute" from?

Originally posted by: jplumbley For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work. This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues.quote> Where did this myth about a 6/7 tile max pedestrian commute w/ maxis standard setup come from? I've heard a couple people on the forums allude to it multiple times over the years. But, it's simply not the case. I have standard maxis traffic setup (for everything, capacity, speed, and commute time), and while its definitely relative to average commute time, there are no limits to the distance individuals can commute in any mode except a) a better place of work to commute to; or b)alternative routes to the same place of work. The fact pedestrians tend to follow roads and streets tends to make car faster, but with heavy congestion and high average commute time, a long pedestrian commute becomes the optimal mode of transportation. Here's an in game pic, it has an intermediary bus commute, but I don't have one with a pedestrian only commute handy (I'm certain they exist, I've checked for this exact reason previously). I the the total pedestrian stage of the commute is about 16 tiles if you count each diagonal as 1/2 a tile. The queried building is still showing stats:

That's ridiculous. If every death site were hallowed ground, there'd be no where to build. It's not disrespectful to drive over the same road where others have died (and we can all understand the very expensive implications if this were not acceptable). To somehow suggest these 2500 dead are more valuable than any other prematurely deceased is equally as ridiculous. That's the same silly mentality that I hate.quote> The entire mentality, as Scipio unwittingly pointed out, is a pretext for hate. It is a rallying cry in the absence of true unifying forces...it's the ultimate expression of patriotism (I mean that in the worst way possible). The only drivel more incensing then the 1,776' tower, are the nostalgic calls from people who have never known New York for anything but 'ground zero' (which, if you ask me, more accurately describes nondescript locations in Nevada than the center of the financial world).

Sounds like 2 versions of the NAM are installed...The game is looking in old files for new content.

This is the rail connection map for my city. The Street map and subway map can be seen in previous posts (one pack back and two posts up respectively). The metro lines are shown for reference.