Mark Waybill

Well in that case then I reckon it should be done. A full 3d Simcity is something I've wanted since I started playing Simcity 2000 back in 03. I guess Game Maker's speed limitations convinced me full 3d was a thing of the future for games, as I've not really played many 3d games with large map sizes

My opinion has always been that the 'unlocking difficulty' system would be the best way to make the game accessible to newbies/non city building gamers and also core players. There is nothing to stop this from being done, theoretically. However the usual reasons for not making a Simcity 5 or game that lives up to what sc would have become are: 1. Financial reasons (if developed not by a community but by EA or another game company) 2. That Simcity 4 with all the mods is apparently all we want or need. 3. That people prefer violent games and so there isn't as many people to back such a project. 4. Disagreements over how the game should be. (i.e full 3d vs pseudo 3d) 5. Computer hardware limitations if it was full 3d. All of these I would look at as challenges and obstacles but by no means barriers. Simutrans shows that a core group of gamers can create a community built game that is fo a good standard. That would put aside the issue of finance, as a core gamer would do anything necessary including unpaid work to get what he/she wants out of the game. A community built game is also 'by the people for the people' so naturally there would be less issues and concerns with how the game is made and so forth. As to the argument that Sc4 plus mods is sc5, that is a matter of opinion, but we shouldn't let the fact we've become used to sc4 for so long now and created all these wonderful mods for it distort our perspective. We might as well argue that a well built steam engine is capable of what a diesel or electric loco can do. And besides, all these sc5 threads show that there are still things that would be better. A source code would be nice obviously but I think that's going to have to wait some years until it becomes a reality. There are enough core players and interested people I believe to easily do all this, if organisation was done properly. Simutrans works. And I know plenty of people who like shooting zombies but reminisce about good ol simcity 2000. The big quesion of full 3d vs pseudo 3d is not hat important as long as the game is developed from the engine outwards as is naurally the case. The representation of the core, the simulation, can be simple at first and if technology still doesn't permit full 3d when the game is near a 'completed' stage then a decision could be made then. It would surely be possible to have simple representations of buildings during the development stage, or not develop graphics beyond a very simple system for a while. Computer limitations are no issue because they're hardly going to decline over the next few years. The oft quoted sc4 article from 03 shows how archaic those limitations are now, and I'm sure computers will get more powerful. My main suggestion for a sc5 is to get rid of grids and apparently theres a way to have roads without grids I heard although don't ask me to make such a game! In Virtucity i'll stick to grids I think. But in sc5 it would be nice to have proper realistic roads that are more organic and buildings that can face any direction. Before I discovered Simcity 2000 (a godsend it seemed at the time) I was very much into maps and town planning, and I always enjoyed designing cities on paper. One of the things I've always found a limitation with SC is the grid system. If it can be replaced I'd suggest it strongly. Another suggestion is weather/disasters. If we're to have that sort of supersimulation that isn't part of the city itself but fairly cosmetic it should be realistic and we might as well make some realistic envronmental simulation (pollution, landslides, erosion, forests that have groundcover etc etc etc) which also adds an interesting new challenge to gameplay. It couldbe kept fairly simple but also realistic. My final suggestion for such a game would be if an integration with The Sims is a bit too much, individual simulation of commutes and sim lives is still a good idea imo. It is very realistic and very power guzzling, but if it is to go in that direction one might as well make it realistic. Societies shows how not to simulate demographics. Lets do it properly this time.

Well yes I agree with Djohaal- and one from scratch rather than a source code would allow for original development ideas. One thing that imo should be done if possible is to get rid of the outdated grid system, just how that is done I would not know as in my game Virtucity I am using... grids. Free placement and turning of a full 3d object is easy enough, but for pseudo 2.5D or wtvr? A major decision would be whether to develop it in full 3D and hope computers become very powerful soon, or to have it like 4 in 2.5D.

''The logic is that hardcore fans will find the money even if it's painful.'' Well that is certainly true. Back when I bought SC4 it set me back 80 dollars, and plus Rush Hour at 40 or thereabouts, and back then that was over a year's savings gone. The source code notion seems to me the most likely, as if EA did consider making a SC5 it would be controlled by EA not us and thus might turn into another societies. They'd make it profitable by hook or by crook- leading to less realism and more 'challenge' and 'mission' type gameplay like in Cityville, or Sim it up into an online multiplayer social simulation to make the cash. Zynga games at Facebook show what is popular and successful. But I doubt anyone here would want to spend an income on their cities, even if it wasn't absolutely necessary. With the source however there would still need to be a united effort to produce something good, and so a strong central core of devoted players with coding experience would have to be formed as a sort of parliament with various areas of speciality- and work together to creating something very good that could the be updated regularly. Simutrans I believe is a good example of a community built city game. The one thing that a open source internet available game lacks is publicity, the great thing about a commercial enterprise is it is advertised and in the public eye. Attracting new players to an open source game might be difficult. Simcity 2000 didn't get to prominence by lurking in some community website tucked away where nobody could find it. The advantage of a source code being made available is one can have a connection with a famous franchise. The niche issue I think is very much an issue of this era. After all back in the day people were content to play chess or cards to pass the time. The violent and quick satisfaction games available so much these days will never die, and after all theres nothing wrong with a good old shooting arcade game where you blow up space ships with lasers. But the issue I think is relativity. While most game players will play a shoot em up game or a fantasy reality game, few seem interested in playing a realistic game, even if just like a rpg it allows them to assume a fictional character and do fictional things (in many cases far more powerful things than in a rpg) The core concept of Simcity, the building of ones very own city, one having such power... Surely should appeal to these young video gamers? The problem I think does lie a certain extent in complexity and also time. If it takes a few hours to get a realistic profit earning city running a video gamer will have spent that time rather bored and wishing for his/her city to grow already. However if he/she is rewarded by realistic features and entertaining simulation of minor things he/she will not find it such a drag. I don't think anyone, even a hardcore l33t gamer who enjoys blowing up zombies day in day out, could resist the core notion of simcity if it were presented to them properly in a way they could understand and appreciate. One gets to lord it over a whole region, deciding what happens, and gets to build a city entirely by themselves. Surely these gamers must appreciate what that implies? Creating a city... When one considers how long and how difficult a real city is to create... Take New York for instance as a prime example... Surely the magnitude of this concept should appeal to a wider demographic than it does? And in my humble opinion thereason it doesn't is that people these days have presented to them options like societies that aren't essentially city building games but socially centered simulations. Social simulation is great, I say bring on the integration of Simcity and The Sims, but unless that fundamental concept is appreciated, that of creating a city- so simple yet so godly a concept... The answer in my opinion has always been to make the simulation as interesting as Simcity 2000s was. Now I know this isn't the 90s, but I first played 2000 in 2003 and it remains my favourite video game of all time. I think that we can learn a lot from this game. I think making gamelay easy is a good idea, to the extent that it is easy to understand how the basics work. Then a uninterested player can build a workable city and experiment at this or that and blow it up, whereas a more fanatic city builder can gain added tools and use their experience to do more complx things. To make the game available to a wide demographic as well as marketed to a wide demographic is the key to success. The 20,000,000 dollars mentioned before does not phase a hardcore 'we want simcity 5er' such as myself. Quoting big figures is all fine and dandy, but the game will at least break even if marketed properly. Inside all of us, even those who were tempted by the zombie killing side of the force, there is a person who would find the core concept of city building very interestin if they could appreciate it. I think if we could appreciate just what we were doing represented... when we destroyed a whole town with a hurricane... or developed a large plain into suburban sprawl... or saw our first commercial skyscraper after so many years of simulation... I think if the game was not only realistic but simply prepresented the core concepts... To get someone interested in the process of city building and of course city management (both things that to young gamers should appeal??? power on such a level as opposed to the mere handling of a semi automatic in a dungeon filled with vampires? with zoning powers you can tell said vampires where to build their dungeon! Surely this power, this importance the 'Mayor' has in the running of things, if marketed and presented properly, would attract hordes of young gamers? Or are we so full of decadent food we can not appreciate fish and chips these days? Ah well... I've ben ranting about Simcity 5 and what it should be like since 2005... But I think one day EA will give up the source code. Let's just hope it doesn't take as long as the original version did!

Well naturally the source code would be useful. Creating Simcity 5 ourselves is no stranger of a concept to me as I'm working on doing that myself. Not that I have any hope it'll ever be that good. But certainly a community built game could work well, and would have the added advantage of constant updates.

Well it's a start at any rate. I like the banner, very straightforward and simple.

I've created an account.

'We Want Simcity 5'? lol. Well while I agree with the financial reasons EA won't undertake this, it doesn't stop a group of people from making the darn game anyway. Simutrans is getting by quite well from that system of development, so just because a big powerful company won't do it (and yes I understand they have valid reasons etc etc) doesn't mean it can't be done. I do agree on the issue of complexity/education gaming etc. While one of my favorite aspects of the Simcity series has been it's realism, indeed that is the one main thing I hate about games as they are oft unrealistic games. However a game can be realistic and thus educational without being a teacher whacking a blackboard with a cane and interrupting our daydreams. If a game happens to be realistic enough it will be subconciously educational, and it needn't be viewed as being an educational game just because it is realistic and we learn about stuff. What I mean is that doesn't have to be the reason the game exists, and the thing we get most out of it. I remember when I first played Simcity 2000, having always been interested in town planning and similar areas, it was a Godsend. I daresay had mr Wight not conceived the concept when he did I would have created this game, as it answered all that I asked for in that I liked to create 'imaginary' cities, but if I just drew them or wrote about them or mademodels they were not alive and were thus not proper cities just ideas. What Simcity did was make these ideas come alive, and also it was indeed interesing to see a basic idea of how these things actually work in real life. I don't think the issue would lie with complexity and difficulty. It's easy enough to have settings so that more laid back gamers can lose control over things and go with the flow, and allow more serious players or those with an interest in town development and so forth to have more control over precise elements of the simulation. I really can't see why that can't be achieved. Putting aside the financial perspective as if it was community built it would be built not for financial gain but as an artwork as it were- and I am sure that if enough people with the right skills got involved who had the time free... It could be done. If it was community built it would be best to make it a free game, especially during it's development. Then again that is from the perspective of the city building enthusiast, not the financial advisor. The difficulty part of Simcity to me seems unimportant, as it is easy to make a tutorial so that even the most ignorant players will know what to do. As long as the UI isn't overly complex, and laid out simply, and the complex realistic controls are toggleable (sp?) that shouldn't be an issue. It wouldn't have to sink to the level of realism of Cityville to appeal to a wider demographic, but merely be as easy to play. And besides, if you play a game and find it easy to play, and ALSO have realism as an added bonus, who's complaining? One last thing... Simcity 2000 imo was the best version so much as enjoyability is concerned, but I don't think one has to lose realism in order to make a game more enjoyable. However I think... this is after all a game not a textbook on city building... and while tip top realism should be in it, I don't see why we shouldn't have the option to build fantastic arcologies or have dinosaurs roaming the city streets either, as an option. People want to spend some time, of varying lengths, on making their dream cities come to life. That concept surely doesn't have to be challenged by 'difficulty'.

I think free hosting is fine although it looks as cheap as it is if it's obviously free hosted. However if enough people of a dedicated nature got involved so there was constant activity there any new members would be more likely to join. An official website connected with the forum too, but yes I agree a banner/logo is also important. The site needs to be graphically layed out so as to look professional, so hey take it seriously. My ideas as to features for the site would be from the homepage a link to the official one and only simcity 5 petition (I believe there's one called the official one with quite a few signatures already I signed years ago), link to the forum and link to an 'about the cause' page etc etc. If it was to be really proactive then contact details for EA, Will Wright etc on a page? Suggestions of a lobbying campaign? Naturally the only way we'll ever get Simcity 5 is to show EA it's a worthwhile investment. The way I see it, if you are the company that owns the rights to THE city sim game, and it works well and satisfies all reasonable demands from players- and is what we are all hoping for, then you are in a good financial position. Not only do you sell the game, but you have a monopoly of connected merchandise and these days the Internet/Facebook could help to spread popularity for the game to all corners of the world- Also it would be easy enough to make and sell games within the game like SimCopter/The Sims type games which would also make a profit by their connection with the main one. I am biased because Simcity is my favorite videogame but I do think there's enough fans to show EA it's a worthwhile investment. I myself am not well off but back in 04 I forked out 80 dollars for Simcity 4, back then I'd be lucky to get 5 dollars a month. I think however the method by which they can make a good profit out of the franchise isn't so much the game itself. To make it prohibitively expensive would limit the playing demographic to those who could afford it, and expensive expansion packs wouldn't be a good idea imo, rather an Internet update system like Simutrans uses. Through Facebook or an official site there could be some sort of profit making venture connected but not actually an integral part of the game, and I'm sure they could make it profitable if they wanted to. I agree Simcity 4 was rushed and released early, but having said that the whole point of this is that we now have the technology to do what we couldn't back in 03, and so I think if we are to move on from 4 it should be to 5, not to CityLife or Societies or some other rubbish excuse for a successor.

I joined all the Simcity 5 petitions and fb pages I've found, but they are all small or disconnected. What's needed is a single official page/petition/forum etc for the drive for a Simcity 5... A united effort.

I started a project in 2005 called AtoCity with Game Maker. Despite recently learning C++ this project, now VirtuCity, is still written in GML. Its eventual aim is to create a SimCity 5 like game with the features we wanted 2013 to have. At the moment it has primitive landscaping and roads, and untextured models, but is fully 3d and has a totally free roaming camera allowing views from any angle. If you play the game and like it please 'like' its Facebook page, and if you wish to join the project then contact me. The project is not for profit and so the only reward for any contributions would be credit. http://www.mediafire.com/?6qsxvnq648lj9oq ^ This is the download link. It is in Zip Rar format, so is only about 2.5 mb, containing the exe and model files. I have not included any screenshots as at present the graphics are untextured and the models fairly vertex starved to speed up development of the game, however most buildings now have models.

The file is now in Rar format so only takes up 2.5 mb download amount. All residential and commercial buildings have models now.

Changed link it should work now. Unless you enter it precisely it does do that.

If they could just update 4 and create 5 then fine, if not then create a new game- but certainly it seems silly not to make any sequel (putting aside Societies which imo does not count) at all.

Okay I've stored it at Mediafire now so the link should work now. Once again sorry about all this but I set it to public so I really don't know why it wasn't working.

Right the link should work now. Stupid me went and made the file private... Now it should be able to be downloaded.