saltandsauce

actually small businesses are better at keeping jobs than big business, it's easier for the owner of a hairdressers to say "look you all know business is quiet right now, i either have to sack one of you or give you all a paycut which is it to be? and since employees know if this is true or not, they are more willing to take the paycut. on the corner shop/ chain supermarket arguement, here you have a choice of both you can go to the corner shop for eggs, milk flour, sweets whatever since it's less hassle than driving to a supermarket. on a saturday you get the other things(these are the shopping habits of the Brits btw) your situation is an oligopoly of targets, 7-11s, Wal-Marts and a few other supermarket chains and oligopolies are not good either. the reason supermarkets are cheaper is because they buy out suppliers or hammer them down as low as legally possible which isn't good for jobs. it's harder to work for yourself in the western world you always work for somebody else. plus inflation IS bad to every level because it extracts more wealth and puts it in those who already have it it's not good for employment since it can lead to strikes (over under inflation pay rises) and generally people get poorer and thus borrow ergo our situation is inevitable

just now the car industry in the USA is begging for money, do you honestly think that they'll be able to make the car industry stay there? BMW broke their contract when they got money from the UK government (rover was owned by BMW) you don't think the head of BMW or in your case general motors is going "i need to employ these people so please mr. Brown/Obama can i have some money it's my social duty" hym: do you think there is no alternative to buying groceries from 7-11 and tesco you accuse me of stupidity. there are such a thing as non chain shops you know, ones owned by some guy who isn't spectacularly wealthy but not poor that kind of shop you tend to find them in cities now when they used to be everywhere for example instead of buying your yuppie coffee at starbucks for $3 you could buy one of the same quality for only $1.80 at an individual coffee shop that also serves 1/2lb cake and pancakes and a fry up for $10 instead of $7 for some 1/2lb cake and a lousy coffee that has had extra caffiene in it to get you addicted

may i suggest not drinking coffee?

big companies don't play by rules so don't bail them out. besides the small businesses collectivley employ more people (are less efficient) than big chains the gap in the market this would create more jobs to replace the old giant chian store and is better for the economy since money moves inside the country insteaad of draining off to tax havens. any factories that employ lots of people but aren't major brands (a factory that makes widgets) if modern developed life is buying the same craply made stuff from the same crappy shops then i'll take old, undeveloped life any day i'm not saying let the big employers run into the ground i'm saying let the chains and brands close down these companies are leeches inflation is always bad why is deflation even worse you can't win on that front. deflation will get rid of huge brands which are overrated (starbucks springs to mind) really hard to get rid of and hard to start up. deflation will just pop the bubble that started in the mid 80s. better burst the boil now i'm trying to show you the benefits of deflation and your all being pessimistic. in the great depression when things picked up it was relativley quick because you do small dealings which is against modern economics eg. there is a story of a woman in th 30s who's dad got work in construction. they had enough money left ofver after buying food for 1 plank. they bought one plank from a guy who made wood he could buy stuff and it tips on it goes on and on. here it would be "i went to homebase and bought a plank of wood and it that $1 went into the homebase account and sat there

i'd think that deflation would be good fora while since nobody has savvings (in the UK) this would put some much needed cash into banks which will lessen our reliance on government bailouts to keep banks afloat btw General Motors are asking the UK government for money let them burn. BMW owned rover asked for £2,000,000 they got it and left the next year. if anything let the huge companies go bust and bail out the small businesses like the corner shop and the grocer they're more responsible than chains

the thing about Gold is that every country in the world values that for example, the original world currency was Gold, because it was pretty and didn't rust or decay since gold is scarce pretty much all over the world, people are happy to set the same price for one ounce of gold, but not everyone will agree on the price of a zimbabwean dollar and that brings up a point, there wil never be a zimbabwean dollar situation with gold

i will warn you now about the gold standard and this is the main reason why we shouldn't have a GOLD standard Gold prices are set by Mine owners and this can result in the mine company controlling the economy. having money tied to the value of something is goood but Gold is not a good idea plus countries would have to retract things like eductaion and healthcare/welfare to help pay off their debt if they have any

Originally posted by: fukuda meh, it mereley means that we can't use satnav(they go in the huff if you don't turn right on a bridge), some mobile phones, make some international calls, watch satellite TV or be spied on by governments. so what? quote> Who cares about knowing if a hurricane is going to land into your coast after all? The victims? Naaahhquote> hurricanes are forecast from sea temperature, if the sea temperature reaches some temperature (27C i think) then a hurricane can form. you don't just look at it from space since that's usually too late for warnings then. sea temperature is obtained from ships and the carribean is heavily trafficed by shipping through the Panama canal. i know there are weather ships in there since Britains weather pretty much starts there (we have one of the worlds most powerful computers dedicated to the weather and they still don't get the forecast right) and belfastuniguy, i have said that not that many people would miss government spy satellites or global communications, the only people other than militarists who would miss it are those who are in love with globalisation (more people lose out from it and they lose a lot). the only thing you have said that would be missed is the hubble telescope

Originally posted by: SkiGeek Originally posted by: duackId like to hear more from belfastuniguy, seeing as a lot of people seem to get their economic theory from their imagination, saying things like reccession last a lifetime and and outsourcing is bad. Outsourcing is good. If you want to know why, read a little on the theory of comparitive advantage because Im not going to explain it. quote> I would like to hear more from people studying economics too but I would like to address some of your points. This recession will last for some people's lifetimes and outsourcing is bad for some people. Yes, in the long run, the economy will cycle back up again and, yes, from an overall perspective, outsourcing is more efficient. But a lot of decent people are going to be screwed over in the long run. Take, for example, Harry and his 200 buddies at the widget factory. They are decent, hard working guys who have spent their adult lives manufacturing widgets. Now, their factory has closed and they need to find other work. No problem, economic theory says, they can be retrained to do whatever jobs are available. But let's be honest: the average 48 year old factory worker is not going to be retrained to work in information systems technology, for instance. A few of them might but certainly not hundreds and thousands of them. Every time the economic shifts or technology advances, good people get left behind. Zebadiah, the expert, kick-ass, carriage maker suddenly found himself without work when those darn horseless carriages became popular. Ugh, the master flint knapper, suddenly found himself without work when people learned how to make knives from steel instead of stone. It's been happening since the beginning of time and it's going to continue to happen. It's just how things work. quote> the problem now is that there are no new jobs being created as has been proven by Scotland, 1960s the heavy industry started to close they said that light manufacturing wold replace it- it kind of but never really a substitute more like a small supplement. then that left in the '80s and computer programming was supposed to replace light manufacturing, it never provided as many jobs as light manufacturing and nowehere near as much as heavy industry. that left in 1998 roughly then financial services came and replaced the same amount (roughly) of those in computer programming. and oh look that's leaving (shutting down this time not moving to China) too. Often there are no new jobs available. outsourcing is not only detrimental to the donaters economy and social fabric it's bad for the factory owner. as many have found out, China doesn't care much for patenting laws and copyright so Mr. Miller moves his widget factory to China and then somebody in China with some money works in his widget factory and then sets up his own widget factory illegally and then all the workers go from Mr. Millers factory to the new factory. putting mr. Miller out of business.

economics is a form of divination staring into a crystal ball, throwing stuff in the air and chanting strange things repetativley aka. staring at stock prices, throwing money in the air and saying "Confidence in the free market"

meh, it mereley means that we can't use satnav(they go in the huff if you don't turn right on a bridge), some mobile phones, make some international calls, watch satellite TV or be spied on by governments. so what?

personally i hate the TV switchover since it will allow the HD switchover and then some other kind of switchover, i don't care how many more channels of crap i get, i'm not getting a crappy pixelated (instead of blurred) poor signal. i'm content with the current arrangement

Another could argue that EU membership has actually benefited the United Kingdom. We could mention the hundreds of millions in farming payments to UK farmers, the money spent on infrastructure projects across the UK ..... The immense benefits being a part of the single market has been to the UK, its people and its companies.quote> what immense benefits? nothing changed when we joined the EEC in 1973, the only change came when thatcher ripped up the regulations on the banking sector and look at where that got us. as far as i've seen all of Britains infrastructure was paid for by the taxpayer not the EU. and farmers struggle because half of what they grow they can't actually sell under "quality control"(wool being one example) and the supermarkets pricing them out. (tate and lyle sugar corp. gets the same benefits as Mr. teuchter the tenant farmer)

Originally posted by: duack Well that's good, the expansion of the EU has allowed faster economic growth through the concept of comparitive advantage. the part I dont get is why they wont let Turkey in. Its just as good as any eastern Europe economy.quote> They won't let Turkey in the EU because it isn't geographically in Europe (by "they" i mean Germany And the UK) well Iceland if you want to ruin your fishing industry go ahead and take the bait prepare yourself i seem to recall Britain using this arguement of "weren't skint let's go into the EEC- it's only a trading block" we joined it and - nothing changed. other than tons of bereaucracy and legislation was dumped on us. Farming ruined and fishing stocks diminished (by Danish sand eel fishers to make some kind of biofuel - other fish used to eat those sand eels)

"I would like to see how Australians feel when they go to Europe where in places they don't have toilet paper." quote> don't aussies go to school? where you must rip pages of textbooks and jotters for bog roll (works quite well both symbolicly and literally as long as the pages arn't that plasticky stuff)

how hard can sex education be? if you have sex you can get pregnant DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHH how blunt must i put it it also doesn't help that so many people now have one night stands, like sex is a kind of chore, like hoovering or washing dishes i think it's degrading

i would say now that it is official that the western world is skint and in recession, China won't be able to sell us anything

i am adamant in no abortion, nobody chose their parents if abortion were legalised in 1900 about 1/3rd of you ouldn't exist there is a thought besides most would be mothers go through immense emotional trauma from effectivley losing a baby and it ruins their physical health (hormone inbalances and such can lead to cancers) and girls/women, a guy who won't wait is a guy you don't date

i would have to say, Glasgow Glasgow in all it's wisdom built the M8 motorway which slices up the city (there was also supposed to be another motorway but the city ran out of money the M74) but the motorway is the least of it's problems, all the employment was on the west side of the Clyde river with shipyards, steelworks, docks, factories everything and it pretty much closed in the 70s it demolished the 19th C. housing in the gorbals (which was originally middle class housing and then "made down") and dumped the people in schemes like Posselpark which mad no shops, factories or even schools until 10 years later, the people were then literally stuck in those schemes and couldn't have a chance of finding work. and then built rubbish 60s slums to replace the 19th C. slums in Govan

hey give the guy a break, he has done something right. so what if he is trying to change his legacy, forget the man, remember the deed. Bush should be removed from the equation plus, we treat the ocean rather strangley, as a pantry and a toilet/bin so don't say " the oceans are not worth it"

since i am midly socialist, i do think some companies neeed help (such as when a bimbo ends up controlling the sharesand runs it into the ground) but i don't like the way the whole "we give you money and you don't go bust" way of doing it i prefer bailouts to be in the form of the government buying enough shares for majority control which means the government will be determined to keep top end pensions and benefits at sane levels and actually punish incompetent employees (not give them golden goodbyes) and it means publicc money can be recouped when the government sells those shares (usually for a higher price) this is not nationalisation as the company does not have access to the public purse so even mild capitailsts could accept that way, it also stops jobs being lost and the social decay thaat follows that. during the great depression, people with money clung on to it thinking that merely "waiting it out" would work - it didn't only when the government started employing people (through projects like the hoover dam) that money started moving and production starting to climb. so the hallowed "market forces" don't solve anything.

Now, grace is another term that needs to be defined. Grace is best defined as "unmerited favour." quote> i visited my mother's cousin a few days ago (she was a nun) and she has a plaque thingy on her wall that says "Grace is when God gives us what we don't deserve" "Mercy is when God doesn't give us what we do deserve according to that plaque, grace is our talents and gifts from God and mercy is not punishing us for our sins (i know perfectly well that some people will choose to interperate that differently) although some would define grace by things like small miracles (such as the body of Saint Bernadette being "incorrupt" which merley means after being buried (with no embalming stuff) the body doesn't seem to decay anywhere near as fast as a normal corpse)

fox news has the same dilema as robert peston, robert peston made the northern rock problem public and so, caused it to collapse, the FOX network has the power of self-fulfilling prophecy, if they report it (in the usual world-coming-to-an-end fashion) then they will aggravate the problem like picking at spots

the pope only had power when countries were Monarcal there are tonnes of times when a king or queen needed to change something like who was the royal family and what countries were sovergeign (Scotland being one of them, they were an official country once they got an amupla) and there was another time when say, one country was fighting the other and one went to the pope and successfuly persuaded him that the other side was being nasty and wrong and greedy he could stop that war with the stroke of a pen (of course there were corrupt popes but there have been corrupt politicians etc.) and the cardinals will hardly put a bumbling fool in charge. of course now the pope weilds the same amount of power your local MP does since nobody cares or or even listens to the pope, half of the Catholics don't act on his decree things so i'd hardly say the pope is ruler of the world. he is the consolidated voice of the church

most christians beleive in some version of "the Creed" but this is the Catholic version "We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." bits would be cut out for Protestant churches (such as beleiving in one holy catholic apostolic church) but every catholic must beleive in all of that to the letter (so the creation story is unimportant, just as long as you beleive that God made it - somehow this is what i would say makes you a Catholic but christian would have some bits cut and a few bits pasted in but that general idea