Brutalist Architecture Discussion Thread!

[Glenni 1,444]

I was wondering wich style this building is.it's From My hometown Haugesund(30k),Norway it is  8 floors, and i am thinking of batting it.

So wich style is it?

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//bytur-april-5-hgt.jpg align=baseline>

[gascooker 4]

when was it built? I would guess in the 1970s - looks kinda like watered-down modernism meets softish-brutalism. Its an interesting building, but hard to judge the style. There are some definate brutalist elements, but its easier on the eye than say, the Tricorn... It would make a good BAT...

[Glenni 1,444]

hmmm im not  sure..i would guess the 70's or 60's

[Chartsengrafs 0]

This is coming together nicely!    Lots of great pictures so far everyone!  I like GaryReggae's picture collection, and the Alley Theatre is very striking!  The Barbican and Trellick Tower are something to behold as well.  Habitat 67 is an extraordinary building - would I be correct in saying that it was built in Montreal for the '67 Expo?  Lord_Bertrum:  Good catch there with Park Hill!  I found a great ariel picture of it the other day (see below).

I realise that Brutalism is a very controversial style of architecture, which many people hate passionately, but I've found myself becoming increasingly fascinated by it in the last few years.  I think it's because it usually leaves me awestruck - the sheer scale and prescence of many Brutalist buildings is simply incredible.  Also, they often have a sinister quality about them, which I think reflects the time in which they were built, and also their origins.  Many were built at the height of the cold war, when nuclear paranoia was rife, while at the same time, industry was collapsing and communities were being torn apart by Comprehensive Redevelopment schemes.  That actually sounds quite morbid, but I assure you, it's not meant to!

 

Anyway, here are a few more photos:

 

The ariel view of Park Hill Estate, Sheffield:

 

http://www.open2.net/modernity/jpgs/parkhill1_lrg.jpg align=baseline>

 

Cumbernauld town centre in Scotland:

 

http://www.open2.net/modernity/jpgs/cumber1_lrg.jpg align=baseline>

 

I believe Cumbernauld currently holds the dubious title of 'Worst town in Britain', or at least it did.  It's also the windiest urban area in western Europe, because the town centre is perched on a hilltop!

 

Roehampton's Alton East and Alton West Estates:

 

http://www.open2.net/modernity/jpgs/roehamp1_lrg.jpg align=baseline>

 

These are early examples, dating from around 1958.

 

Alexandra Road, London:

 

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That'll do for now.

 

Oh, by the way, catweazle_touchwood:  Do you know anymore about those mushroom-houses?  How are they arranged inside?  They're very unusual!  I visited the Netherlands last year on a field trip, and I was amazed by what I saw.  The Dutch are light years ahead of us in terms of urban planning and housing.  I visited the new towns of Leidsche Rijn and Ijburg, which are very impressive, and featured a number of very unusual (albeit more modern) buildings.

[GaryReggae 80]

Gascooker: I would love it if you BATted the Trellick Tower!

Chartsengrafs: I love the Alton Estate, it's so distinctive! It reminds me a bit of Le Corbusier's Unite D'Habitation:



Anyway, here's some more Brutalist buildings I've found:

London's Brunswick Centre:



Lowestoft Library: A building I recently had the pleasure of visiting. Although it's recently been refurbished, it has been done very respectfully and the Brutalist style of the building has been maintained:



Doncaster Arndale Centre (just found this, it looks lovely!!!):



Flats by Denys Lasdun in London:



Royal College of Physicians in London by Denys Lasdun:



Student housing at the University of East Anglia, Norwich:



Basildon Shopping Centre - Basil Spence -


The University of Sussex. Not particularly Brutalist but the arches remind me of St Peter's.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

I saw somepne mention the Trellick Tower, i was disgussing that with FrogFace the other day. It is the UK's Tallest 1960's Residence and a Listed building.

[gascooker 4]

Tonks - didn't you once BAT a bit of the Tricorn as a carpark, but without the helix ramps?

[GaryReggae 80]

Date: 6/23/2005 1:18:17 PM Author: ILL Tonkso I saw somepne mention the Trellick Tower, i was disgussing that with FrogFace the other day. It is the UK's Tallest 1960's Residence and a Listed building.

quote>

Yes you're right - although the Shakespeare and Lauderdale Towers in The Barbican Centre are the highest residential Brutalist buildings but they weren't completed until 1976.

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

these would be really cool to re-create in SC4!!!

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 6/23/2005 1:36:12 PM Author: gascooker Tonks - didn't you once BAT a bit of the Tricorn as a carpark, but without the helix ramps?

quote> No, thats Gary's.

[GaryReggae 80]

Date: 6/23/2005 3:36:12 PM
Author: ILL Tonkso

Date: 6/23/2005 1:36:12 PM Author: gascooker Tonks - didn't you once BAT a bit of the Tricorn as a carpark, but without the helix ramps?

quote> No, thats Gary's.

quote>

Yes - it's here: 60a Car Park & Bus Station .

It's not brilliant though. It's one of my earlier BATs so no modding or nightlighting but it is certainly based on The Tricorn, it's the car park element of it but no spiral ramps. I will hopefully be building the entire thing eventually although I am currently waiting for the architect's plans from Portsmouth City Council.

[deadwoods 542]

Good to see this thread still going. There's some great stuff in it. Good ideas for BATting

[gascooker 4]

Gary - the Tricorn would be a superb BAT to make - we could certain do with some CS$ shady shops in th game. There are plenty of Tricorn fansites on the web, believe it not - and sorry for thinking your BAT was Tonk's.

The new John Lewis department store they are building on the site, would've been much bolder if they just renovated the tricorn instead of knocking it down, or dissolving it in acid as alledgedly happened.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

The 'dissolving' part was for the 8 inch layer of Sea Gull Droppings in a crevace, i saw it being demolished, big cruncer crane things. Anyway, dont park in the temporary carpark on the Tricorn Site, its Expensive.

[masher 3]

I have a question...when I saw the building glenni posted..I thought it was part of the postmodernist style, since its form is geometrically simple and it also has other not-so-common shapes on its design...anyway...my question is....how can you differentiate between; postmodernism,modernism and brutalism....

[GaryReggae 80]

Modernism is generally characterised by simple geometric shapes with little or decorative features.  Modern buildings are usually constructed from materials such as steel, glass and concrete and generally (but not always) have flat roofs.

Brutalistm is characterised by the extensive use of raw, exposed concrete.  Brutalist buildings are usually strongly geometric but can feature more abstract shapes as well.  Other characteristics include narrow, slit-like windows and often lots of different layers and decks with a different layout on each floor of the building.  It goes further than Modernism but not only doing away with the use of decoration completely but by leaving surfaces untreated.

 

Postmodernism is a fusion of classical architecture and more modern styles so you might see a contemporary style shop or office block with a Roman portico.  It's often quite abstract with unusual combinatiosn of shapes and it is less governed by conventions than Modernism or Brutalism.

 

That's my interpretation of the different styles!  As for the building Glenni posted, it's late Brutalist, certainly Modernist.  THe style of the columns and curtain walls is exposed concrete but the design of the building with the fairly large windows is more in keeping with Modernism.  I would say it was late 60s/early 70s.

[gascooker 4]

Modernism and Brutalism couldn't be more different. Modernism is very difficult to summarise but in general its a very specific architectural movement, started mostly by Walter Gropius, Le Corbusier and the gang at the Bauhaus, in Germany, during the late 1920s/1930s.

In its purist form, modernism is dictated by the mantra that the building's form or design comes from its function, so you end up with simple, undecorated, pure style of architecture, that its mostly geometric. However, modernism, also has a social dimension, and shares some of the ideals often associated with socialism or communism. Large social housing projects, the post-WW1 and even post-WW2 European notion of the nation state, the democracy of the new machine age and even the new materials of the time have also been an influence on the Modernist movement.

Brutalism, is a break-down of Modernism's purist ideals, and almost an experimentation with the geometry, that came about from the Modernist movement. In brutalism, form equals function is less important.

 

Post-modernism is the complete opposite of Modernism - a kind of a lame capitalist back-lash against it.  Post-modernism rapes and pillages architectural forms of the past, as if history were nothing more than an aethestic supermarket. So a post-modern building will be a pastiche or muddled-plagerism of a collection of architectural styles from times gone. So you end up with a modernist skyscrapper, with Greek columns, Georgian windows and a arabian dome. Las Vegas and Disney world are the ultimate in how disturbing post-modernism can actually be...

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Brutalism is easilly distinguichable from modernist buildings because modernist buildings dont have so much of an impact as a brutalist building would. The UK's city centers are full of modernist buildings. For example Portmouth City Center is predomanantly modernist (with art deco and later additions) yet the Brutalist Tricorn Center stands out above all of these, almost a 'scar' on the landscape. This is also notable in the City of London's skyline, the (i forget the name of the building, i think its 'guys tower' or is that further along the river) stands out quite distinctiivly above St Pauls and is dark and grey on the skyline.

[EricPoehlsen 0]

I have posted pictures of my university and they vanished, what happened?

I deleted them, as they were way in excess of the image limits (800x600, if you don't know). Your post is still on the first page, if you want to edit it with appropriately sized pictures.

Thanks.
-K.F.

Oups, sorry just forgot about it

[rp2005 165]

Date: 6/24/2005 4:10:52 AM Author: gascooker

Modernism and Brutalism couldn't be more different. Modernism is very difficult to summarise but in general its a very specific architectural movement, started mostly by Walter Gropius, Le Corbusier and the gang at the Bauhaus, in Germany, during the late 1920s/1930s.

 

The values of the Bauhaus and of Mies Van der Rohe also lead to the subset of modernism labelled International Style.

 

Brutalism, is a break-down of Modernism's purist ideals, and almost an experimentation with the geometry, that 'came about' from the Modernist movement. In brutalism, form equals function is less important.

 

In brutalism architects, having surrendered expression through materials, tended to choose more abstract shapes in which to express their creativity.  There was also, I think, a looking back to monumental architecture of the past - some of the multi-platform type designs seem to me to echo the form of ziggurats and step pyramids.

 

Post-modernism is the complete opposite of Modernism - a kind of a lame capitalist back-lash against it.  Post-modernism 'rapes and pillages' architectural forms of the past, as if history were nothing more than an aethestic supermarket.

 

Much postmodern architecture is unfortunately about focus group design with corporate clients watering down and modifying the architects' vision for a project.  Sometimes it can work, but most of the time you end up with a series of nice details that looked great on the buildings they were stolen from. 

 

The real legacy of modernism and brutalism is to be found in structural expressionism.  Both the form following function ideals of modernism and the structural experimentation of brutalism find a home in structural expressionism.  What all have in common is a desire to take the materials and construction techniques of the time and be honest about both.

 

Something like the new Imperial War Museum in Manchester clearly owes a lot to brutalist ideals - in it's mass and it's bold shapes - even if the use of metal rather than concrete means that it isn't a brutalist building.

 

[GaryReggae 80]

Here's a photo of some very Brutalist flats in Manchester. Of course, they're long gone. I really must BAT some Brutalist walk-up flats like these or Park Hill at some point!

[GingerBlokey 30]

Brutalist is somthing which should be much more appreciated. Great Yarmouth Libarary, Shopping Centre, Bus Station and Office Blocks are all brutalist.

[Emozo 0]

ive seen a few brutalism fan sites and from what i con tell from many points of view there seems to be quite alot of hostility between brutalist and modernist supporters, certanly post modernism does pick and mix from classical detail but i think many brutalism fans are just hacked off because their beloved buildings are being torn down to make way for new development. many brutalism fans claim it is such a shame that decaying concrete buildings are being torn down because they are no longer being used, but isnt that the case with all buildings? it certanly was the case with the victorian buildings which they were so eager to eradicate! the main problem with much of the concrete architecture of th 60s and 70s is that it was cheap, rushed, and poorly maintained, classic mistakes that are still taking place today. perhaps if time and money is spent on architecture then people wont be too eager to see the back of many origional and inspiring buildings.

this is the baltic art centre in newcastle, i think one of the best examples of how to preserve, reuse and modernise architecture for modern cities.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

That would fit under Art Deco, Cool Building tho!

[mentarman 14]

Date: 6/24/2005 1:04:30 PM
Author: ILL Tonkso
That would fit under Art Deco, Cool Building tho!

quote>

But I think his point was that older buildings can be modernized for reuse and that was an example of what can ideally be done with any number of threatened buildings, be they Victorian, Art Deco or Brutalist.


As for telling the styles apart, as someone earlier asked, sometimes this is difficult and the lines aren't always clear cut. Just like when trying to classify animals, once in awhile you run into a platypus.
I'm trying to find a photo of a community college here that looks Brutalist in some respects - the slit-like windows, service towers that are seperate but connected by catwalks to the main body of the building, other elements - but is clad in red brick. Not everything is cut and dried.

EDIT: all I could find was this close-up, but you can see a bit of what I'm saying.



This is a pretty good part of the Wikipedia article posted earlier (check it out if you haven't):

Brutalism is related and similar to (and often confused with) the Modernist, Minimalist and Internationalist styles of architecture. All of these styles make heavy use of repetition and regularity in their features, but brutalist designs also often incorporate striking, abject irregularities as well.

Another common theme in brutalist designs is the exposition of the building's functions -- ranging from their structure and services to their actual human use -- in the exterior of the building. In other words, Brutalist style is the celebration of concrete. In the Boston City Hall (illustration left), strikingly different and projected portions of the building indicate the special nature of the rooms behind those walls, such as the mayor's office or the city council chambers. From another perspective of this theme, the design of the Hunstanton Secondary School included placing the facility's water tank, a normally hidden service feature, in a prominently placed and visible tower.

Critics note that this abstract nature of Brutalism makes the style unfriendly and uncommunicative, instead of integrating and protective as its proponents intended. For example, the location of the entrance of a Brutalist structure is rarely obvious to the visitor.

Brutalism is also criticised for its disregard for the social, historic, and architectural environment of its surroundings, making the introduction of such structures in existing developed areas appear very stark, out of place, and alien.

quote>

Funny, it notes one of my pet peeves about a lot of modern architecture: it doesn't give appropriate visual clues to the people who have to interact with it. It's really true what it says about it sometimes being hard to find the entrance. Other modern styles, not just Brutalism, have this problem where there are no clues from the architecture as to where the entrance is, and in fact, some of Postmodernism's borrowed columns and arches and all that become red herrings, making it look like there's a door over here when really it was just pasted-on decoration. Eventually you ask someone where the heck the entrance is and are directed around the side to what often looks like a service entrance.


Of course *my* answer to how to tell the difference is if your soul hurts looking at it, it's probably Brutalism. But that may be a little biased.

[GaryReggae 80]

Date: 6/24/2005 11:36:42 AM
Author: GingerBlokey
Brutalist is somthing which should be much more appreciated. Great Yarmouth Libarary, Shopping Centre, Bus Station and Office Blocks are all brutalist.

quote>

I visited Great Yarmouth recently, the Market Gate shopping centre is kind of Brutalist (late Brutalist, 1970s I reckon), a bit like Fareham in Hampshire's shopping centre. It's predominantly brick faced. The bus station definitely has a Brutalist design although again, it's faced in brick. I haven't seen the Library but I know there's a Brutalist office block near ASDA. The best Brutalist building in Great Yarmouth was the tower until the Postmodernist refurbishers came along and disguised it as an ancient temple. Yuk!!!

mentarman: Yes, that building is definitely a Brutalist design - just faced with brick to tone it down a bit. A lot of late Brutalist buildings have that effect. I would say that building was late 60s/early 70s.

[GingerBlokey 30]

Date: 6/24/2005 2:29:12 PM
Author: GaryReggae

Date: 6/24/2005 11:36:42 AM

Author: GingerBlokey

Brutalist is somthing which should be much more appreciated. Great Yarmouth Libarary, Shopping Centre, Bus Station and Office Blocks are all brutalist.

quote>


I visited Great Yarmouth recently, the Market Gate shopping centre is kind of Brutalist (late Brutalist, 1970s I reckon), a bit like Fareham in Hampshire's shopping centre. It's predominantly brick faced. The bus station definitely has a Brutalist design although again, it's faced in brick. I haven't seen the Library but I know there's a Brutalist office block near ASDA. The best Brutalist building in Great Yarmouth was the tower until the Postmodernist refurbishers came along and disguised it as an ancient temple. Yuk!!!


mentarman: Yes, that building is definitely a Brutalist design - just faced with brick to tone it down a bit. A lot of late Brutalist buildings have that effect. I would say that building was late 60s/early 70s.

quote>


I completly agree about the Oasis Tower, the building near Asda is certainly Brutalist:

[gascooker 4]

Chartsand grafs - you have started an interesting thread that has been entirely ruined by Forserk and his over-zealous ediiting - We have requested that the thread be moved to the BSC forum so such childish moderation can be handed over to grown-ups who see that the flow of information and debate is not tainted with irrelevant ST posting politics. This has yet to happen. Unfortunetley for some, posting for the sake of posting is far more important than debate.

It is highly likely that not much of this thread will remain in the forseeable future, so can all participants in the debate save their posts incase Forserk deletes them all or tuens them blue. If the worse comes to the worse, Chartsengrafs, start a new thread in the BSC forum, where it will be allowed to thrive - This thread will now NOT be about Brutalism but abouts ST egos and posting etiquete. Sorry about this, but its beyond my control and is one example of the iminent downfall of this site...

[Chartsengrafs 0]

Those are good definitions of modernism, post-modernism and brutalism that GaryReggae and gascooker gave.  Sometimes the styles can blend into one another a little, making some buildings tricky to classify.

 

I have to say, a BAT of Park Hill would be incredible!  Maybe those Dutch mushroom-houses would be BAT-worthy too - they'd certainly make an interesting alternative to the usual semis!

 

Shakespeare, Lauderdale and Trellick Towers and The Barbican, were all mentioned above as potential candidates for the tallest Brutalist residential buildings, but I'm not 100% sure.  How tall are they?  I ask, because the Red Road flats were supposed to be the tallest flat blocks in Europe in their day.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Date: 6/24/2005 2:29:12 PM Author: GaryReggae

Date: 6/24/2005 11:36:42 AM Author: GingerBlokey Brutalist is somthing which should be much more appreciated. Great Yarmouth Libarary, Shopping Centre, Bus Station and Office Blocks are all brutalist.

quote> I visited Great Yarmouth recently, the Market Gate shopping centre is kind of Brutalist (late Brutalist, 1970s I reckon), a bit like Fareham in Hampshire's shopping centre.  It's predominantly brick faced.  The bus station definitely has a Brutalist design although again, it's faced in brick.  I haven't seen the Library but I know there's a Brutalist office block near ASDA.  The best Brutalist building in Great Yarmouth was the tower until the Postmodernist refurbishers came along and disguised it as an ancient temple.  Yuk!!! mentarman: Yes, that building is definitely a Brutalist design - just faced with brick to tone it down a bit.  A lot of late Brutalist buildings have that effect.  I would say that building was late 60s/early 70s.

quote> Fareham Shopping Center has been completly redone, brought up to date, an example of how renovation can help rather than demolishon.