DISCOVERY: File Formats, The Positioning formats (RUL, and Sc4path)

[DarkMatter 21]

Cool...a final spec!

[DarkMatter 21]

As everyone probably expected, RH adds a new SC4Path file version 1.2. This file seems very similar to 1.1 path files, except that there are never any of the -- car_3_1 type lines in it. Where those lines used to be, there are just numbers now.

 

Also, several of the RUL files appear to be INI files, but they have the RUL TID and GID. It seems instance ID's in the range 0x00 through 0xFF are normal RUL files, instance ID's in the 0x1000's are special RUL files that define bridge specializations, and instance ID's in the 10000000's are INI files.

 

DatGen recognizes these files as follows:

 

IID's 0x00 through 0xFF: RUL File

IID's 0x1000 through 0xFFFF: BSPEC File

IID's 0x10000000 through 0x100000FF: INI File

 

I named the files of IID's 0x1000 throgh 0xFFFF BSPEC since they are all bridge specialization files.

[Karybdis 34]

Hmm....what makes BSPEC different from normal Sc4paths? Are they all 1.2 or just different structure in general?

Man I am so left in the dust without my copy

[DarkMatter 21]

BSPEC is related to RUL files, not SC4Path files. They have a structure all of their own, which is different from RUL files. I'll post some content when I get home, to give you guys something to work with.

[Karybdis 34]

Ahhhhhh. My apologies

I'll be interested in getting a look at the new data when you get home

[GouRou 2]

these wont take much figuring at least, straight from the file itself

 

# Sections

#

# These are chunks of tiles that can be included into bridges. The

# syntax for specifying pieces:

#

# piece <instance, rotation> Simple piece

# piece <instance, rotation, htdelta, yoffset> Sloped piece with the given height change over the tile and model Y offset

# piece <instance, rotation>:depth Simple piece with support column (: syntax also works for long form)

# piece section-name Reference a section

#

# You can specify more than one piece/section in a line and you can

# also reverse a section while referencing it:

#

# piece rev(foobar)

[Karybdis 34]

Complete Spec compiled for BSpec via this info and stuff Hayly told me in chat

Waiting for sc4path 1.2 info

------BSpec specification

Maxis definitions of how to write a BSspec file combined with stuff derived from a Bspec. Saves us a lot of the trouble

Sections
--
section bridgetype_piecetype_pieceposition (IE warren_undertruss_start)
(piece definitions)
end
------------
piece Simple piece
piece Sloped piece with the given height change over the tile and model Y offset
piece :depth Simple piece with support column (: syntax also works for long form)
piece section-name Reference a section
------------

Bridge Blocks
--

length 5
piece definedsectionfromabove
piece repsofpiece*definedsectionfromabove
piece rev(definedsectionfromabove)
end

---------------------------------

That about does it

[Karybdis 34]

Here is the new SC4path 1.2 filetype


----Header

SC4PATHS
1.2 - vers
3 - Blocks in file
0 - Sim/Stop blocks in file
1- terrainvariance

---- Blocks

1 - Transport type
1 - Class/Path type.
2 - Entry side
3 - Exit Side
0 - U1
4 - Coordinate lines
8,4.093335,15.843066
4.371101,0.485801,15.843198
-2.012599,-5.977500,15.843198
-3.939568,-8,15.843173

------------------

This specification is not tested so dont take it as word of course since I dont have a copy of the game. It should be correct however based on what I've seen so far.

U1 is the only currently unknown value. Of course I've never seen it with a value of anything but 0 so I have no way of judging

[DarkMatter 21]

So aside from U1, whats different in v1.2?

[Karybdis 34]

Just the U1 as far as I can tell

The Class/Path variable may also have a different reference table than 1.0 and 1.1 though. That will remain to be seen

Sims/stop value may also not be this and may be related to the U1, though I dont have a reference file to work with since I dont have the expansion yet.

[Karybdis 34]

Confirmed. All data but U1 is the same as always

Files may contain stop and normal data

U1 is the "junction" key. This means that its put to use where paths contain a junction such as where a rail track splits and goes in 3 directions. This is only used where the path originates at a side with one exit, and exits a side with more than one possible path

This concludes our pathing thread again

[GouRou 2]

good job guys

 

given all of this information, would it be possible to make a program to generate these? I am kind of assuming that is the next step for all of this

perhaps a viewer/editor, there are a couple places in a couple tiles that I feel could use some smoother transitions. I know DM that you were working on a viewer for DatGen, I cant wait to see how it comes out

[DarkMatter 21]

I'll start working on it tonight.

[the7trumpets 10]

I have started trying to do some bugfixes on the sc4paths which have bugs (and are not allowing proper traffic flow).

 

In that process, I have noticed that the 'path class number' in our specification needs to be updated.  There are many more, for what I'm not sure, but I have noticed more than simply a, b, and c for one way roads and avenues.  When I get a better handle on it, I'll let you know.

[Karybdis 34]

Yea. there are a lot more I know

the problem is we need a visual editor in order to see visually the positions they're all in.

The spec is done really but these things deffinitely need to be made into an updated table and updated into the specification as we go. I daresay that RH includes some new ones also over the original types as well. No worries though. Using existing values should work fine in most situations at the moment I believe though. Its just the highly complex stuff that need the full table values.

[the7trumpets 10]

DarkMatter - concerning your editor, I have discovered some things, and was wondering if you knew any more that could help me out.

 

It has to do with one way roads/avenue tiles.  There are some avenue intersection tiles which are used for one way roads OR two way roads, which means that there is something in the programing which 'flips' or ignores some of the paths for one way roads.  I have been unable to determine how this occurs, which is what has held up my second transit bug fix, but if I find any more specifics I'll let you know.  If you know more about this, please let me know.

[Karybdis 34]

I would think that this would be done in two ways. Instance and Class

Instance would have an instance ID that is possibly dual related instead of just being for streets or one ways. Actually the path tile may just be considered Avenue for all intents and purposes which brings us to class

Using a new RH class type, they could theoretically have say m,n,o. Path m and N would show the two lanes for one ways. Path o would assume its a road and flip to the other direction.

Path is always what determines stuff like this though. For instance in a lot of files you will have a class for american right side driving, and a class for UK left side driving, which is how the game calculates the routes for both. It would make sense that this could simply be applied to an intersection like this with two network types.

The values could be exemplar based or hard coded to the exe depending. Unfortunately I'm siding to EXE

Just some random mumbling. I dont think you should take this as anything serious but hopefully it will help somehow.

Random thought that the junction key could be substituted for a situation like this too.

[DarkMatter 21]

Karybdis/7th....I'm not entirely sure what your talking about, or what the context of what your talking about is.  I'm still trying to get a deeper understanding of SC4Path files (it kinda comes as I program), but I don't have a complete and unhampered understanding of them yet.

 

By avenue intersection tiles...what do you mean? A tile can mean many things in SC4....from simply an FSH image to a collection of FSH, RUL, and SC4Path files working together, depending on the context. From what I've learned of SC4, there is very little that is explicitly hard-coded for a single thing. The games engine was designed to be extremely flexible, through exemplars primarily. So its very unlikely, at least the way I look at it from a programmers perspective, for this "flip" thing to be a hard-coded feature of the .exe. The thing about SC4Path and RUL files is they arn't really something that works alone. The transit system is extremely integrated, using all the files together, including exemplars, to make everything happen as its supposed to. That kinda makes it a difficult system to reverse-engineer, particularly pathing quirks like this.

[the7trumpets 10]

Sorry, I'll try to be more specific.

 

Example:

 

SC3path file at instanceID 0x04008800

 

This is an avenue intersection piece where a road or one way road is going through an avenue and terminates at at least one side.  The path file is written as if the connecting road is a two way road.  BUT, if you draw a one way road, it does not allow traffic in the other direction.

 

So, in this example, depending on which way the one way road is going, one of the following is either ignored or reversed:

 

Car_c_3_0

Car_a_0_1

 

 

 

edit- how's the path viewer/editor coming?  huh huh? huh huh?

[DarkMatter 21]

Oh, its comming along. I have some questions though. First, what area's worth of tiles does each path define? Just one tile, or many tiles? Second, whats the range of the coordinates in a path, and does the 0.0,0.0,0.0 coordinate represent the lower right corner of a tile or the upper left, or the very center? These are the first things I'll need to know to write a viewer. Right now I'm relearning 2D coordinate system transformation. If the 0,0,0 position of the path coordinate system represents the center of a tile, the transformation code will be a little more complex than if it were at one of the corners. But before I can plot any points at all, we need to know the range of a paths coordinate system. By that, I mean we need to know what the maximum and minimum coordinates within a single-tile constraint are. Once I know those values, transforming path coordinates into pixel coordinates is easy.

[the7trumpets 10]

----------------

On 10/3/2003 2:53:03 AM DarkMatter wrote:

Oh, its comming along.

I have some questions though. First, what area's worth of tiles does each path define? Just one tile, or many tiles? Second, whats the range of the coordinates in a path, and does the 0.0,0.0,0.0 coordinate represent the lower right corner of a tile or the upper left, or the very center? These are the first things I'll need to know to write a viewer. Right now I'm relearning 2D coordinate system transformation. If the 0,0,0 position of the path coordinate system represents the center of a tile, the transformation code will be a little more complex than if it were at one of the corners. But before I can plot any points at all, we need to know the range of a paths coordinate system. By that, I mean we need to know what the maximum and minimum coordinates within a single-tile constraint are. Once I know those values, transforming path coordinates into pixel coordinates is easy.

----------------

Sure thing, DarkMatter.  here's the specs:

X,Y - 0,0 is the center of the tile.  Range is -8 to +8 for both X and Y coordinates.

Z - 0 is ground level, or 0 height added or deleted from the terrain height.

 

SC4Paths define all FSH/Exemplar network tiles at thier corresponding instanceID for all zoom and wealth levels.  For instance:

SC4Path at instance ID 0x00004000:

Exemplar/3dm IDs:

0x00004000

FSH IDs:

no development:
0x00004000
0x00004001
0x00004002
0x00004003
0x00004004

low wealth:
0x00004010
0x00004011
0x00004012
0x00004013
0x00004014

med wealth:
0x00004020
0x00004021
0x00004022
0x00004023
0x00004024

high wealth:
0x00004030
0x00004031
0x00004032
0x00004033
0x00004034

 

Hope that helps!

[DarkMatter 21]

Cool, thanks. Thats all I need for now. I have to write a brand new control for this, so it will be a few days, maybe a week before you see anything on it. Writing a control (fyi, a control, in windows terms, is a collection of visual elements that performs a task. An example is the file listing in windows explorer. It shows icons, has scrollbars, lets you arrange icons in several formats and change the viewing mode from large icons to small icons and even a detail view. Thats a control.) is a complex task, because you have to do the following:

 

write rendering code

write keyboard handling code

write mouse handling code

write code to handle possible errors

write code to fire events (an event is like a mouse click)

 

The control I'm writing is a point and line plotting system. Basically, it will allow me to input an array of items that each define a point and a connection to another point. The control will render each point and the connection as a dot and a line. I figure it should suffice for plotting paths. Eventually I will add the ability to select, move, add, and delete points and connections from a path file using this control, too.

[the7trumpets 10]

DarkMatter-

 

Reading the first part of the networks INI file,  it appears that all paths get reversed for the UK version.  But, there are separate manually reversed paths written for one way streets which the UK version uses so that when it reverses them, it's still correct.

 

 

Everyone-

 

I've been having some difficulty fixing the last known bug with avenue/one way street intersections.  I'm trying to fix the RUL files so that it will allow a T intersection between a North or Southbound one way road, and an avenue extending to the west.  Currently this cannot be built.

 

I have isolated the network tile in question, it's at instanceID 0x091a5500.  However, there is no mention of this ID anywhere in any of the RUL files, even though it can be built in other orientations.

 

I thought all network tiles had to be mentioned in the RUL file somewhere.  What am I missing???

[Karybdis 34]

It has to be in a rule if its used in the game

If its impossible to use in the game which is what I think you're saying, then that means they never created a rul entry for it accidently so you'd have to create one from scratch.

[the7trumpets 10]

sorry, I'll try to be more clear:

 

It IS possible to use in the game.  However, there is one rotation which it should be able to be used and it doesn't work properly.  The other 3 rotations work fine.

 

However, I have looked through all the RUL files, and haven't found any mention of that hex anywhere.  So, I'm confused.

[Karybdis 34]

hmm.... check the first 4 characters only of the instance

Given that its an avenue interaction section, it may not have a direct instance reference since it covers more than one tile. This happens in other places

Otherwise check the INI files under the RUL category which might have more of it. More by semi-instance than a full instance ID though I'd guess.

[the7trumpets 10]

well, I extracted all the RUL files and the INI file governing networks into text files.  Then I searched for 91, 1a, a55, and 5500 with no luck.  What is going on?

 

I actually cannot find any refference to any tiles between 0x091a0200 through 0x09aa1100.  These are all tiles which are intersections or transitions between one way roads and other network types (road, avenue, and street).  Where are these tiles controled from?  Again, the specific tile I'm looking for is 0x091a5500.

 

I suppose there could be some sort of masking going on,  using the same RUL file since the instance IDs for these tiles might have some part symilar (last 5 digits?) to road tiles, I'll have to check into this.  Any other ideas?

 

[edit] well, there doesn't seem to be any correlation that I can find.  I guess I go to bed stumped once again  [/edit]

[Karybdis 34]

This is also stumping me too... maybe by exemplar? ~_~

Fraid I'm out of ideas until we get a graphical editor up and running

[the7trumpets 10]

Well, I think I've figured at least something out, but if I'm right, the news is not good:

 

It seems that any transitions (intersections or not) between different network types (street, road, one way, avenue, rail, el train, el-freeway, ground freeway) are not handled in the RUL files or the one INI file we know about.  The previous INI file (before rush hour) handled these intersections and transitions.  However, in Rush Hour, those have been removed, and I assume placed somewhere else, but I don't know where.  There are likely MANY more transitions since there are so many new above ground transit types, so I'm not really surprised that they moved them, but I haven't found where they moved them to.

 

 

Bottom line - There must be another positioning file format established for Rush Hour.  Has anyone figured out those AB files yet?  Maybe that's what we're looking for.

 

 

 

[edit]

Does anyone know why there are several RUL files which look very symilar but are slightly different?  Why the duplicate data?

 

This set is very symilar, and governs road pices without intersections:

 

file #61 instance 0x00000003

file #121 instance 0x00000007

file #154 instance 0x0000000b

file #204 instance 0x00000013

 

This set is also symilar, and seems to govern Road-Road intersections:

 

file #81 instance 0x00000004

file #130 instance 0x00000008

file #148 instance 0x0000000a

file #159 instance 0x0000000c

file #208 instance 0x00000014

 

[/edit]

[GouRou 2]

I will throw this out simply so someone can use it work against, did they hardcode the one way roads because their system couldnt use them...?

As I said, I'm with you guys, I doubt they did that, as it would be against their whole system, what we need is a way to search all files in the data for those 4 bytes, some way to scan the dat.......I'll work on this.