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Emperor Li

Emperor Li's Assets: (WIP: Central Station in the style of Berlin Central Station); rotors shader problem solved

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Hallo everyone!

I'm Emperor Li and I've been making assets for CS for some time now. I've actually been following threads here ever since I start modelling and I've learned so many things from here. So I like to say thank you all!

I made this central station. It's not exactly the Berlin Central Station. It's more symmetrical (,which make it easier to make). The station has semi-transparent glasses, moving escalators and detail interior. All the platforms are numbered correctly and so are the signs. There are 4 elevated platforms and 3 underground platforms.

AOAsGI9.jpg

 

Everything looks ok so far, but I spotted something wrong with the glasses. It looks like the rendering order is wrong. As you can see in the pictures, at some viewpoint it looks ok...

KzfWW5D.jpg

..but sometime it doesn't.

ny68ZEN.jpg

 

I know the rendering order of rotor shader is reverse and I already separated them into several sub buildings.(the roof tube and the entrance glasses in the front are different sub buildings.)
Anyone know how to fix it? Otherwise the station is ready to be released. Any help is most appreciated! Comments to the station are also welcome!

 

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For rotors shader, the object which has the pivot closer to the camera will be rendered fully in front of the other ones. Hard to tell exactly what's going on there but the only solution would be to split it into more parts, but make sure they are not placed at 0 (relative to the main building) each part should have its pivot near its center. I'm guessing right now all the sub buildings are at 0.

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  • Original Poster
  • I see! That answers my question. All my sub buildings with rotors shader have the same pivot point.

    Thanks @Ronyx69 !

     

     

     

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    You should only use sub buildings for meshes that require their own footprint.  Other meshes like the glass and possibly the escalators (if they're not props) should use the new sub meshes function.  Sub meshes can have different shaders to the main mesh but do not require the additional .crp file to exist thus saving you on memory. 

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    11 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

    Sub meshes can have different shaders to the main mesh but do not require the additional .crp file to exist thus saving you on memory. 

    Using the vanilla sub building implementation, sub buildings don't require another crp as well, they get saved into the crp of the main asset.

    But yes, for decorative parts sub meshes are better because they don't count towards the building limit.

    As for saving on memory, LSM will share the textures if they are the same no matter what context they're used in, but when it comes to sharing at the crp level I'm not sure, testing should be done. I think sub buildings do share textures at the crp level, meaning if you add multiple sub buildings with the same textures, the file size wouldn't continue to grow accordingly, as it can share those textures, I would assume this is the same for sub meshes, but would need to test it to be sure.

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  • Original Poster
  • On 2018/7/23 at 10:39 PM, Bad Peanut said:

    You should only use sub buildings for meshes that require their own footprint.  Other meshes like the glass and possibly the escalators (if they're not props) should use the new sub meshes function.  Sub meshes can have different shaders to the main mesh but do not require the additional .crp file to exist thus saving you on memory. 

     

    On 2018/7/24 at 9:54 AM, Ronyx69 said:

    Using the vanilla sub building implementation, sub buildings don't require another crp as well, they get saved into the crp of the main asset.

    But yes, for decorative parts sub meshes are better because they don't count towards the building limit.

    Thanks for the tips! I thought sub meshes are only for sub buildings if you want them to appear by specific condition. But like you said, it's better to have the glasses and escalator as sub meshes, as you can import them directly.

    Another question. How can I change the shader of the sub meshes into NoBase and AnimUV? Can I use the script for rotors shader and change "Custom/Vehicles/Vehicle/Rotors" into "Custom/Buildings/Building/NoBase" or "Custom/Buildings/Building/AnimUV" ?

     

     

    On 2018/7/24 at 9:14 AM, Clus said:

    Moin Moin ... some comment about the station ;) :   this is fck*ng awesome, period !!! ... Wow... !!

    Thanks! I'm glad you like it.

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    5 minutes ago, Emperor Li said:

    Another question. How can I change the shader of the sub meshes into NoBase and AnimUV? Can I use the script for rotors shader and change "Custom/Vehicles/Vehicle/Rotors" into "Custom/Buildings/Building/NoBase" or "Custom/Buildings/Building/AnimUV" ?

    You can use this and then change the shader to anything you want, and also change it only for main or only for lod by just removing that line. https://gist.github.com/ronyx69/4856d3bb49f706281d3e0c9ce881f101

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  • Original Poster
  • @R3V0     :8)

    By the way, I extended the elevated platforms in order to accommodate your XL trains. It's now 430 m

    9wyWLd6.jpg

     

    Still have some issue with the stops and LOD. Going to replace spawn points tomorrow.

     

     

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  • Original Poster
  • They are actually split into 3 sections (136+168+128m). Is it true that the max station track is only 168m, like said in this guide:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=923495498&searchtext=long+train+station

     

    For some reason CS has difficulty to correctly find stops now, even with advanced stop selection. :???: It worked fine with the previous shorter version (with station tracks 40+168+48m).

    Going to fix that later.

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    On 06/08/2018 at 1:25 PM, Emperor Li said:

    They are actually split into 3 sections (136+168+128m). Is it true that the max station track is only 168m, like said in this guide:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=923495498&searchtext=long+train+station

     

    For some reason CS has difficulty to correctly find stops now, even with advanced stop selection. :???: It worked fine with the previous shorter version (with station tracks 40+168+48m).

    Going to fix that later.

    Guide is not wrong but it misses certain issues. While it's true that 168m is the maximum lenght, this can be bypassed easily with 2 mods that everyone uses and must nowadays.

    I just tested my European terminus and it has 28unit long stops. That is approximately 8x28=224m, which is more than enough to create 2 stops per platform configuration. I also tested whether it accepts passengers or not, and it does. So 224m is possible and you should, in theory 215x2 platforms. 

    Meanwhile,  1 suggestion if it's still doable:

    i'd avoid adding 40m stops, it's roughly 8 units long, i believe it's a bit short even in-game station (which is shorter). There's another station in workshop that has shorter stops like that,  and it's causing issues on spawning regional trains where they can't be disabled. Therefore, I'd go with 215m x 2 config where pretty much anything can be spawned without issues.

     

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  • Original Poster
  • On 2018/8/7 at 4:40 PM, R3V0 said:

    Guide is not wrong but it misses certain issues. While it's true that 168m is the maximum lenght, this can be bypassed easily with 2 mods that everyone uses and must nowadays.

    Which mods exactly? "Advanced Stop Selection" and " Spawn Points Fix "?

    In the meantime I got the station with 3 sections (136+168+128m) platform config working.

    I also tried the 216m x 2 config, but CS failed to form a train line properly. You could find the stop using ASS, but couldn't place stops nor make a line. Maybe I miss a mod.

    I'm thinking of using the 3 sections config(, if I can't find a way to make the 2 section working). That way, people who want to use trains with standard length can use the middle 168m track to allow shorter trains stop in the middle of the station and not at the far end.

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    Just now, Emperor Li said:

    Which mods exactly? "Advanced Stop Selection" and " Spawn Points Fix "?

    In the meantime I got the station with 3 sections (136+168+128m) platform config working.

    I also tried the 216m x 2 config, but CS failed to form a train line properly. You could find the stop using ASS, but couldn't place stops nor make a line. Maybe I miss a mod.

    I'm thinking of using the 3 sections config(, if I can't find a way to make the 2 section working). That way, people who want to use trains with standard length can use the middle 168m track to allow shorter trains stop in the middle of the station and not at the far end.

    Advanced Stop Selection. Never saw the need of Spawn Point Fix, i tested without it and it's working fine.

    1. Creator needs to use "reset spawn points" option in advanced buildings editor, after stretching tracks. That's it.

    2. The workshop subscriber needs to use "Advanced Stop Selection" mod, to use extra long tracks for line assignment, otherwise he/she won't be able to click on them. 

    If it's working, it's fine. You will have to warn users beforehand since tracks will glitch during the regional spawning of most of the workshop trains. 128 meters is roughly 16 units, that is the default station length. For a user that is using non-default trains it will mostly glitch. Since it's one station, user wont get to choose which platform can be used for regional/local spawning and game assigns regional "spawn" points randomly; so it might as well end up the shortest, or the one in the middle. 

    The solution in this case would be use the station only for local spawning and asking people to create an 'inbound station' outside the map and create train line from it. 

    If you wish I can try to work on 2x215 platforms, see if i'll get the same issues as you had 

     

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  • Original Poster
  • On 2018/8/8 at 10:03 PM, R3V0 said:

    If it's working, it's fine. You will have to warn users beforehand since tracks will glitch during the regional spawning of most of the workshop trains. 128 meters is roughly 16 units, that is the default station length. For a user that is using non-default trains it will mostly glitch. Since it's one station, user wont get to choose which platform can be used for regional/local spawning and game assigns regional "spawn" points randomly; so it might as well end up the shortest, or the one in the middle. 


    The solution in this case would be use the station only for local spawning and asking people to create an 'inbound station' outside the map and create train line from it. 

    If you wish I can try to work on 2x215 platforms, see if i'll get the same issues as you had 

     

    Yes the regional trains, I totally forgot about that. Thank for mentioning.

     

    I tested a few things with longer station tracks and 2 sections platform config. Here are what I found out:

    - 2x216m (my platform is actually 432m long) still doesn't work, even with resetting the spawn points. Like I said before, you could find the stop by pressing "shift", but couldn't place stops nor make a line.

    - 1x216m doesn't work either. Same problem.

    - 1x200m works only as terminal station. If you connect the other end with train track, stop can't be placed (picture: second station track from the top). So I assume 2x200m dosen't work either.

    - Also, any station track longer than 200m doesn't work, not even as terminal station.

    nyiufox.jpg

     

    About the regional trains, I found out that the regional trains will only stop there, where spawn point is. I tested my station with 3 sections config (136+168+128m, which is working properly). Like you said, with spawn point placing at every station tracks, regional trains will stop at any track. Than I remove the spawn points on 136 and 128m tracks, it seems that regional trains will only stop in the middle, the 168m track with spawn point now. Maybe this is a way how to choose regional train stop? You can still place stops on the shorter track without spawn points with ASS. But you have to move the cursor at the end of the track while pressing "shift", not where the spawn points/stops should be.

    Well that's all the test for now. If you have the time, maybe you could verify it.

     

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    Are you having this trouble with ETST tracks? I've had similar problems with that mod but more specifically with the sunken tracks (not elevated as you show)

     

    It's the reason i took sotunder down because i need to make my own vanilla train track in the editor

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    11 hours ago, Emperor Li said:

    Yes the regional trains, I totally forgot about that. Thank for mentioning.

     

    I tested a few things with longer station tracks and 2 sections platform config. Here are what I found out:

    - 2x216m (my platform is actually 432m long) still doesn't work, even with resetting the spawn points. Like I said before, you could find the stop by pressing "shift", but couldn't place stops nor make a line.

    - 1x216m doesn't work either. Same problem.

    - 1x200m works only as terminal station. If you connect the other end with train track, stop can't be placed (picture: second station track from the top). So I assume 2x200m dosen't work either.

    - Also, any station track longer than 200m doesn't work, not even as terminal station.

    nyiufox.jpg

     

    About the regional trains, I found out that the regional trains will only stop there, where spawn point is. I tested my station with 3 sections config (136+168+128m, which is working properly). Like you said, with spawn point placing at every station tracks, regional trains will stop at any track. Than I remove the spawn points on 136 and 128m tracks, it seems that regional trains will only stop in the middle, the 168m track with spawn point now. Maybe this is a way how to choose regional train stop? You can still place stops on the shorter track without spawn points with ASS. But you have to move the cursor at the end of the track while pressing "shift", not where the spawn points/stops should be.

    Well that's all the test for now. If you have the time, maybe you could verify it.

     

    Alright, after reading your posts I made some tests as well; 

    1. My previous assumption that 27unit stops may work was based on the fact that, when you dont 'cut' train tracks in order to get lenght, it adds up 1unit from each end that makes 27unit total. That was false as I found out myself during the testing. 

    2. As for maximum track lenght, I can verify that 25units -that is 200m- is functional both as terminus and through stop. I was able to assign line stops with ASS, by holding down shift key. You can check screenshots here. Station track in question is vanilla stop track, perhaps it's related ? That's to be verified with an elevated train station template. Station in question is Kopfbahnhof

    3. I can't verify on how spawn works but if they are the ones that determine local/regional stops, then removing them from outmost tracks would solve the issue. Keeping mid section open to regional lines seems ideal as it will prevent congestion on shorter tracks. 

    @Bad Peanut, must be ETST then, because AFAIK vanilla doesnt have elevated tracks, which he's using right now. He should try 25unit tracks as ground see if it's the case

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  • Original Poster
  • @Bad Peanut

    Yes, those are elevated station tracks from ETST.

    What was the problem with the sunken tracks? Because this station also has ETST sunken station tracks (168m with spawn point + 40m (I think) without spawn point) and they actually work so far with ASS.  But like the elevated one, sunken track longer than 168m doesn't work anymore.

     

    @R3V0

    Thanks for the verification!

    All the test I did was conducted with ETST elevated station track, so that's why 25u track only work as terminal station. I haven't tested tracks between 25u and 21u. I assume I will get the same result.

    I'm going to test my current working 3 sections config (136+168+128m) with regional trains if I have the time. Though the regional train will stop in the middle section, it's still not perfect with XXL trains since one or two wagons will still be outside the platform. But I think I'll have to live with that. (Or I have to extend the platform again)

     

    @AmiPolizeiFunk

    Thanks! I actually want to make the interior more like the real one (the pillars, rounded elevator shaft etc.). But the tris count will be enormous so I have to simplify it.

     

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    On 16/08/2018 at 11:32 AM, Emperor Li said:

    What was the problem with the sunken tracks? Because this station also has ETST sunken station tracks (168m with spawn point + 40m (I think) without spawn point) and they actually work so far with ASS.  But like the elevated one, sunken track longer than 168m doesn't work anymore.

    It was the same as you described where you could start the line but not finish it, or if you were trying to route a line through it it would sometimes get the "no path" error, even though it certainly had what would normally constitute a path. It was only a very small audience who would have problems, but i finally had a guy send me a save in vanilla that showed it to me  (having not been able to recreate the issue) so i had to assume it was ETST as it was the ONLY mod used to place the station. 

    Now we have the editor I'm going to eventually get round to releasing my own station track sets that i will know won't be affected by any game update because they come straight from the editor. But it's gonna have to wait until christmas because i don't have any time during semester. My next stadium, modular station concept and Sydney harbour bridge are all having to wait too :(

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