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Tarkus

Apple Phasing Out Support for 32-bit Applications in 2018; SC4, SC2013 Likely Affected

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  • Original Poster
  • 2 hours ago, skyjuice said:

    Hmm i bought SC 4 deluxe at steam today. Have a macbook pro from 2011. No problem yet. Should it be?

    Havent played Sc4 since 2009 or so.

     

    First off, welcome back!  In any case, it shouldn't be a problem just yet.  High Sierra remains the latest macOS, which still has the 32-bit support in place.  It's with the next macOS (10.14 or whatever they end up calling it) that it becomes an issue.

    -Tarkus

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    9 hours ago, Tarkus said:

    First off, welcome back!  In any case, it shouldn't be a problem just yet.  High Sierra remains the latest macOS, which still has the 32-bit support in place.  It's with the next macOS (10.14 or whatever they end up calling it) that it becomes an issue.

    -Tarkus

    Thanks. Anyone knows why Apple do this? I understand 32bit is old but some applications are old such as SimCity for example. 

    Im on high sierra. Sour apples... as most often dis days. Thanks for the heads up. 


      Edited by skyjuice  

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    On 10/02/2018 at 6:59 AM, skyjuice said:

    Thanks. Anyone knows why Apple do this?

    There could be many reasons, the obvious one is simply so they don't have to support (in terms of code in the O/S) both 32 and 64 bit. This will make the O/S lighter, faster and potentially more secure too. The timing is not terrible, 64-bit processors have existed since the Pentium D's first got introduced in the consumer segment. Support only ever lasts for so long and whilst there are some 32-bit apps that won't see a 64-bit update, I'm inclined to believe SC4 will be in this category, the impact for most users won't be a big deal.

    On 10/02/2018 at 6:59 AM, skyjuice said:

     I understand 32bit is old but some applications are old such as SimCity for example.

    Based on that logic, your O/S would still support 8-bit and 16-bit apps too. This has never been a reality, but in all likelihood an emulator of some kind will probably allow you to run 32-bit apps. Well, assuming Apple allow it in the app store in the first place. 

    In fact, using WINE and the Windows version of SC4 should work just fine, even if it's a pain to setup. Since the application being ran is 64-bit and emulates Windows, I can't foresee a problem here.

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    On 2018-02-12 at 9:06 PM, rsc204 said:

    There could be many reasons, the obvious one is simply so they don't have to support (in terms of code in the O/S) both 32 and 64 bit. This will make the O/S lighter, faster and potentially more secure too. The timing is not terrible, 64-bit processors have existed since the Pentium D's first got introduced in the consumer segment. Support only ever lasts for so long and whilst there are some 32-bit apps that won't see a 64-bit update, I'm inclined to believe SC4 will be in this category, the impact for most users won't be a big deal.

    Based on that logic, your O/S would still support 8-bit and 16-bit apps too. This has never been a reality, but in all likelihood an emulator of some kind will probably allow you to run 32-bit apps. Well, assuming Apple allow it in the app store in the first place. 

    In fact, using WINE and the Windows version of SC4 should work just fine, even if it's a pain to setup. Since the application being ran is 64-bit and emulates Windows, I can't foresee a problem here.

    Wine on Mac OS, yeah forgot bout that, thanks.

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  • Original Poster
  • Aspyr has now commented on the situation, as Apple has now added "warnings" whenever one opens up a 32-bit app.  Apparently, Aspyr is looking at bringing at least some of their 32-bit games over to 64-bit, but they also caution that they don't know yet just what those will be, or when that will happen.

    -Tarkus

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    On 12/18/2017 at 8:14 PM, rsc204 said:

    Let's face it, if you can afford a Mac, you probably don't qualify for food stamps.

    Just wanting to set the record straight: I have a Mac & I am, indeed, on food stamps. (I have been given hand-me-down Macs from friends in the past, and my current one, I bought the most current tech I could with my backpayments when I got on Disability, because I knew that this computer would have to last me as long as possible.)

    Stick to talking tech, folks, and stop with the stereotypes. It's rude & doesn't build a culture of friendliness & welcome in the community.

    (This also goes for those who think that Macs are for stupid people. One of the most high-end techies I know (guy does TLD work, works with ARIN, etc.) runs a Mac. If you want to not have to fiddle with stuff, it works. If you want to fiddle with stuff, congrats, you've got Unix in the background and you can fiddle 'till your heart's content. And even pre-OSX, I know people who have been Mac users from the original Macintosh and knew every little bit of how the System OS worked.)

    TL;DR? If you're going to be in the Mac forums, talking about Macs, don't insult the Mac users. Srlsy. This should go without saying.

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    Well it seems I've struck a nerve there, which was never the intent behind my innocuous comment. It was an attempt a jokingly stating that Macs were an expensive or premium product, there was no deeper meaning intended. Nevertheless, I offer an unreserved apology if you took it to mean something more.

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    On 3/27/2018 at 9:09 AM, c4bl3fl4m3 said:

    Just wanting to set the record straight: I have a Mac & I am, indeed, on food stamps. (I have been given hand-me-down Macs from friends in the past, and my current one, I bought the most current tech I could with my backpayments when I got on Disability, because I knew that this computer would have to last me as long as possible.)

    Stick to talking tech, folks, and stop with the stereotypes. It's rude & doesn't build a culture of friendliness & welcome in the community.

    (This also goes for those who think that Macs are for stupid people. One of the most high-end techies I know (guy does TLD work, works with ARIN, etc.) runs a Mac. If you want to not have to fiddle with stuff, it works. If you want to fiddle with stuff, congrats, you've got Unix in the background and you can fiddle 'till your heart's content. And even pre-OSX, I know people who have been Mac users from the original Macintosh and knew every little bit of how the System OS worked.)

    TL;DR? If you're going to be in the Mac forums, talking about Macs, don't insult the Mac users. Srlsy. This should go without saying.

    100% agree.  I've never understood the condescending attitude towards Mac users, not only on this site (as I was a longtime SC4 Mac user myself) but plenty of others as well.  I eventually started running bootcamp with Windows since I started bumping up against the plugin limit on the Mac version.  But before that anytime I asked for help with my Mac version of SC4 it was basically met with "just buy a windows computer" or some other ridiculous variation of that statement.  While I certainly don't have the knowledge a lot of the other users of this site do, I have over 10 years of experience using various Mac versions of the game.  So if you have any issues or questions either about the game or running bootcamp or Wine, feel free to PM me, I'd be happy to try and help out.

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    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/04/apple-is-exploring-macs-running-its-own-cpus-but-that-dream-is-a-long-way-off/

    Not only is Apple going to drop support for Intel 32-bit programs, it looks like they're going to try to replace Intel chips outright with an in-house solution. If this ends up happening, it'll probably be an ARM-based chip like their A11 chip for iPhones, and if that's the case then those machines will have no support for even the rebuilt 64-bit applications that developers are putting out.

    I don't see this working out for anything more powerful than their entry-level Macbook line. ARM chips have lower power consumption but are far slower, and trying to push this onto their pro models is completely unviable. I also wonder if this'll just fracture their Mac ecosystem.

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  • Original Poster
  • Apple has announced the next macOS, Mojave (10.14), expected to release this fall, and it appears 32-bit apps are getting a little bit of a reprieve and should still work, albeit with stronger warnings.  The word now is that the version after Mojave will apparently kill 32-bit support once and for all.

    There's no new news on Aspyr's plans regarding conversion of their 32-bit ports to 64-bit, however.

    -Tarkus

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    I have really come to loathe how megacorporations have the power to dictate terms to the masses. I find it absurd, our entire model of continually, rapidly rendering everything prior in terms of both hardware and software extinct. This is a terrible model for sustainability and a tremendous burden on the consumer to have to perpetually be replacing hardware and software just to "have a computer." In a world where we were more focused on quality of life, we'd take more time with our changes, would work at preserving and building on the past, rather than abandoning it endlessly to force you to reinvent the wheel with your wallet.

    I'm running SC4 Deluxe on a 9 year old MacPro running Snow Leopard, the last Mac OS that I can stand to use. It's worth holding onto just to be able to enjoy SimCity 4, for that matter. That and Civilization IV (the other great game from the same era) are the only games I play any more. It'll make you crazy how the world gets all in a hype over something for a brief window and then abandons it like it never happened and looks to distract you with the next shiny thing. I like continuity. I like cherishing that which is great, and holding onto it. I don't want to be Madison Avenue's b*tch, so I resist the entire model of changing it all up at remotely the rate they want us to.

    I hope this community continues to thrive. In fact, I'm delighted it persists 14 years after this game came out! That is tribute to what a great creation it was and has become through all the creativity, passion, and user-created content. It's a real marvel. I wish this game could be continually developed by the whole world, because it is truly a wonderful educational and fun tool to play with. I wish games and software were continually updated and improved, rather than supplanted and abandoned. Our species thrived for a million years on lifelong continuity with fellow tribe and experiences for the most part. I think it's doing really jarring things to us psychologically to have lost this sense of consistency, continuity, and security in our lives. It's so removed from what is natural for us.

    Let's keep this most wondrous game alive, one way or another. In the kind of world I'd love to see, someone would take that source code and completely rewrite it, expand the game to include all the best improvements which have been added to it over the years, and make it live on in an ever-improved format.

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    Yessss. For now... This can actually change when enough of us change our minds about what we think life is all about. Everything we know as it is now had a beginning, and it can have an end/new beginning. One reason I love to play an unusual game like SimCity is it's not violent, it's incredibly satisfying, endlessly creative, and it offers me an escape from the dull reality of a world driven by fear and greed. The greed is driven by the fear (that there is not enough). The game can bring to our attention real world problems and concerns like pollution, poverty, transportation, education, and much more. If only we could in real life create a magical ordinance or device which made all our garbage and pollution problems just go away. Yeah, that magical Black Hole waste disposal building is kind of irresistible sometimes. SimCity is a very simplified model, but it's so stimulating and so unique.

    Ironically, in real life, I don't care for cities much at all, but then again, in real life I don't get to design or control them, or keep them surrounded by lovely nature.

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    As a Long time Mac user it seems that this topic has created an undue amount of unnecessary handwringing in this community. The Mac is capable of is running Multiple OSs. Mac hardware now is physically capable of running 64 bit programs and supports the 32 bit version SimCity4 now. For example, I have once of the last of the power PC Macintoshs is and I was able to partition my hard drive and Run Tiger and Leopard in separate partitions and run SimCity4 on the Leopard partition. I still use that machine for fun. I run the original CD version of SimCity and rush-hour on my old pre-intel machine. I have a lot of older games that did not make the move to the Intel world and I run those on programs on the Tiger side and I even go to classic layer to run programs in OS9. 

    The instructions about how to  back up your Mac using Time Machine is very straight forward. (I run it automatically) Once you are backed up, you can then reinitialize your hard drive and create two partitions, in one partition run High Sierra and install and run the  the new OS. From your time machine backup, reinstal SimCity4 into the High Sierra side of the partition. Your are done and ready to zone to your hearts content.

    Alternatively, and for most people it maybe the easier method, you can create a bootable external hard drive NOW ,or sometime soon, using High Sierra (B&H Photo sells a 1 terabyte for $55 usb powered from western digital) move or reinstall SimCity4 to the bootable external drive and your are good to go.

    The future of SimCity for on the Macintosh as bright and really unlimited as long as there’s a machine out there that will run the 32 bit programs. I recently installed in the NAM36 on my current until Mac, the 27 inch iMac from 2012 and it works like a charm. 

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    Excuse my complete ignorance to computer science and how this all works.

    Couldn't a computer geek (not even a SC4 fan) create a 32-bit emulator that allows you to run emulator 'roms' on them? Practically code a shell program to make the machine think you're running any of the uploaded 32-bit games as 64-bit? I don't know how complex this would be, but I know that there are emulators out there for cross consoles (ie: N64, Gameboy, Playstation, etc. onto a PC/Mac). Would this work for running older programs that run a supposedly foreign format to what the machine runs?

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    3 hours ago, Kabinator said:

    Would this work for running older programs that run a supposedly foreign format to what the machine runs?

    Seems quite logical it could be done. For instance on my Windows comp with a 64 bit OS I use DosBox to run 8 and 16 bit games. So, there's just the non-trivial task of someone coding and releasing it.

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