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monkeywater

SPAM how to get bigger farm buildings

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Hi,

 

I installed the SPAM mod, and I get tons of new farm skins.  However even when I zone huge farms, they never develop any large buildings on them, only ever 1x1 or 1x2.

Eventually farm demand drops off entirely.

Is there something I am doing wrong?  I see the building files in my plugin folder, but no idea how to make them actually grow.

 

thanks!

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9 hours ago, monkeywater said:

Hi,

 

I installed the SPAM mod, and I get tons of new farm skins.  However even when I zone huge farms, they never develop any large buildings on them, only ever 1x1 or 1x2.

Eventually farm demand drops off entirely.

Is there something I am doing wrong?  I see the building files in my plugin folder, but no idea how to make them actually grow.

 

thanks!

Well, it takes time to get "huge" farms. Just like in real life. Every city starts within Stage 1, and usually Stage 1 Farms are small. Unless you take the Lot Editor and make your own huge Stage 1 Farm. SPAMs approach here is more about the variety of new field crops and that you can zone any shape of field and even fields without a visible building on it. SPAM also uses the ingame vanilla farm buildings and took care of an error with the original ingame Barthelet Stables. Thanks again to Pegasus for all the hard work! Unfortunately he's not around anymore.
Back to the topic. Well, you need to be patient, and you need to zone a lot of low wealth R$ residential areas, because I-R (Farms) need a lot of R$-workers. Keep in mind, that the original SPAM Mod in NOT compatible with the CAM (Collossus Addon MOD, both of them). I am currently CAMifying the SPAM, because I love the idea and like rural farms around... When your city grows, you'll get bigger farms. But, there are not a lot of higher Stage farms around. If you are familiar with certain SC4 tools like iLive's Reader, you can adjust the stage in the Lot Configuration file. The exemplar is called "Growth Stage" with the Name Value "0x27812837" and the value itself is set in a hex value like "0x03", which would refer here to a Stage 3 farm. Change the hex value to "0x04" to get a stage 4 farm and so on.
The problem with your demand dropping is something different. Did you check on the pollution, the farms produce? Like water and air pollution? Garbage? Plant some trees around your farms. And the original SPAM allows you to grow farms without power and water, but only to a certain point. The demand is capped at Stage 2 for power supply and Stage 3 for water supply. So if you don't have power or water sources installed yet, you'll need to do so at a certain point. And don't forget to place an elementary school. Even the poor R$-citizens want some education. But be aware: You need to protect you R$-housings to upgrade to R$$ houses by marking the buildings as "Historical", when you query them. Unfortunaltely you have to do it one by one. There's no "I can do it all in ones" button. Otherwise in a very short time all your R$ houses will be replaced with R$$ and your poor peeps won't have a place to live in.

That's all I can think of now. Good luck and kind regards!

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9 hours ago, markussaage said:

And the original SPAM allows you to grow farms without power and water,

You probably connected power, but did you supply water? Farms suck down lots of water. Also, other development (like commercial) can curtail farm demand. I can't recall if SPAM solved that by itself, but there's a census repository vault out there that increases farm capacity when you plop it. If you think your farms are capped, then try the vault.

Finally, big farm buildings need road frontage. I use SPAM and have noticed that small road connections produce small buildings.

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5 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

Finally, big farm buildings need road frontage. I use SPAM and have noticed that small road connections produce small buildings.

I never had a problem growing a big farm on a street or SAM street even. What I noticed is, that is doesn't matter in what stage your city is, the most growing farms start with Stage 1. And for what I know, that SPAM changed the I-R caps, but I don't know in detail, how much.

Kind regards!

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How many neighbor connections do you have?  Farms need a place to ship their crops.  Also since demand and population are region wide (assuming you have neighbor connections) it also helps to have farms in neighboring cities and to have a few residential cities to create larger demand for farm products.  The region population counts for stage limits.  You have to have enough people in your region to get to the higher stages of the farm buildings.

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7 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

How many neighbor connections do you have?  Farms need a place to ship their crops.  Also since demand and population are region wide (assuming you have neighbor connections) it also helps to have farms in neighboring cities and to have a few residential cities to create larger demand for farm products.  The region population counts for stage limits.  You have to have enough people in your region to get to the higher stages of the farm buildings.

Yeah, that's right. Farms are considered "Industry" in the game, and the traffic is looking for the shortest route to the border of your city.

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One of the things SPAM does is help to make Farming a more viable option for later stages of game play. Maxis really only envisioned farms being used to kick-start your regions with lots of R$ jobs, but once you have decent education and I-M/I-HT demand and/or 30k of farms, demand simply ceases and never returns. SPAM does double the cap to 60k, plus keeps demands a little longer, but there is always a point where farming demand will still dry up completely. Ideally you want to have all your farms in place before you start with higher wealth industry or providing education and other high-wealth facilitating civic buildings. If you try to add the farms later, you may find it impossible if the conditions have moved beyond those that support farming. This is pretty much the nuts and bolts of the simulator and can't be worked around. That said, if you are planning rural farm-filled tiles, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have lots of high wealth industry and commercial in those areas, so it shouldn't be too constricting.

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  • Original Poster
  • On 11/15/2017 at 6:38 AM, markussaage said:


    Back to the topic. Well, you need to be patient, and you need to zone a lot of low wealth R$ residential areas, because I-R (Farms) need a lot of R$-workers. Keep in mind, that the original SPAM Mod in NOT compatible with the CAM (Collossus Addon MOD, both of them). I am currently CAMifying the SPAM, because I love the idea and like rural farms around... When your city grows, you'll get bigger farms. But, there are not a lot of higher Stage farms around. If you are familiar with certain SC4 tools like iLive's Reader, you can adjust the stage in the Lot Configuration file. The exemplar is called "Growth Stage" with the Name Value "0x27812837" and the value itself is set in a hex value like "0x03", which would refer here to a Stage 3 farm. Change the hex value to "0x04" to get a stage 4 farm and so on.


    The problem with your demand dropping is something different. Did you check on the pollution, the farms produce? Like water and air pollution? Garbage? Plant some trees around your farms. And the original SPAM allows you to grow farms without power and water, but only to a certain point. The demand is capped at Stage 2 for power supply and Stage 3 for water supply. So if you don't have power or water sources installed yet, you'll need to do so at a certain point. And don't forget to place an elementary school. Even the poor R$-citizens want some education. But be aware: You need to protect you R$-housings to upgrade to R$$ houses by marking the buildings as "Historical", when you query them. Unfortunaltely you have to do it one by one. There's no "I can do it all in ones" button. Otherwise in a very short time all your R$ houses will be replaced with R$$ and your poor peeps won't have a place to live in.

     

    Thanks for your assistance. However it does not seem to be the issue. 

    I have tons of R$ workers, almost 30 k.

    I have cheat lots, so my air and water pollution is 0

    I have tons of education.  Multiple schools, museums, college, etc.

    Right around the 45 k population mark is where all farm demand is lost.

    19 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

    You probably connected power, but did you supply water? Farms suck down lots of water. Also, other development (like commercial) can curtail farm demand. I can't recall if SPAM solved that by itself, but there's a census repository vault out there that increases farm capacity when you plop it. If you think your farms are capped, then try the vault.

    Finally, big farm buildings need road frontage. I use SPAM and have noticed that small road connections produce small buildings.

    Farms are watered, and I have at least 10 tiles of free road frontage on each farm

     

    14 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

    How many neighbor connections do you have?  Farms need a place to ship their crops.  Also since demand and population are region wide (assuming you have neighbor connections) it also helps to have farms in neighboring cities and to have a few residential cities to create larger demand for farm products.  The region population counts for stage limits.  You have to have enough people in your region to get to the higher stages of the farm buildings.

    2x highway

    8x railway

    2x subway

    2x HSR

    and a couple avenues and roads

    I have no farms in neighboring cities, and 1.9 million inhabitants of the region.

    Commute time in every city is low. (except one that is far away)

    All freight trips for farms are short.

    4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

     Ideally you want to have all your farms in place before you start with higher wealth industry or providing education and other high-wealth facilitating civic buildings. If you try to add the farms later, you may find it impossible if the conditions have moved beyond those that support farming. This is pretty much the nuts and bolts of the simulator and can't be worked around. That said, if you are planning rural farm-filled tiles, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have lots of high wealth industry and commercial in those areas, so it shouldn't be too constricting.

    Shit, I think this is the issue.

    I am not slow growing, I am planning the city out in advance and then hitting start.  So while farms are developing, I have IHT and C$$$ skyscrapers going up elsewhere on the map.

    Perhaps I'll just zone some farms, and then once they are grown, grow out the res until big farm buildings show up, and then after that get going on placing the industry and commercial.  thanks!

     

    thanks again everyone!  I'll try and report back.


      Edited by monkeywater  

    Forgot to say thank you.

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    2 hours ago, monkeywater said:

    So while farms are developing, I have IHT and C$$$ skyscrapers going up elsewhere on the map.

    Yeah, having demand for both those will kill all farm demand dead very quickly. I'm not sure if this is a proper game limitation, but SPAM only addresses this somewhat.

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    23 hours ago, markussaage said:

    I never had a problem growing a big farm on a street...

    Sorry, I didn't mean "road" in the sense of excluding streets. What I meant was that the length of the road/street contact (number of cells) seems to limit the size of the building that will grow there.

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    1 minute ago, jeffryfisher said:

    Sorry, I didn't mean "road" in the sense of excluding streets. What I meant was that the length of the road/street contact (number of cells) seems to limit the size of the building that will grow there.

    Ahhhh... ok, that was just a misunderstanding on my side... And yeah, you're right, the shorter the road is in front, the smaller the farm. Goes without saying. Thanks for the clarifying anyway!

    Kind regards!

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    1 hour ago, markussaage said:

    Those are raising the I-R cap and you will hopefully get the demand for farms back.

    It's not as simple as this, because it's not the cap that's been reached. For sure the ultimate cap of 60k still applies with SPAM installed. But if you've ever tried to fill a large tile with farms, you'll soon see that's actually plenty high-enough. I never managed to reach the 30k cap before filling a tile with Maxis farms.

    The real issue is the demand simulator has a trigger when the city becomes larger/wealthier that kills all farming demand, cap or otherwise. I think this is much more deeply embedded into the simulator and would take some real digging to work around this limitation.

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  • Original Poster
  • On 11/16/2017 at 2:11 PM, rsc204 said:

    Yeah, having demand for both those will kill all farm demand dead very quickly. I'm not sure if this is a proper game limitation, but SPAM only addresses this somewhat.

    I made a new city to test this theory.

    Medium tile, simple road pattern, and I zoned it entirely with farms.  Watered and powered it and turned the simulation on. A single neighbor connection, rail.

    Not all the farms developed, so I started zoning residentials amongst the farms.

    Around 30k population I lost all farm demand, and I still did not grow any large farm buildings.  Not even all the farm zones even developed. Added residential until population hit 100k. No farm demand ever showed up again.

     

    Not sure what is going on here.

    Should I have started this on a fresh region?

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    10 hours ago, monkeywater said:

    I made a new city to test this theory.

    Medium tile, simple road pattern, and I zoned it entirely with farms.  Watered and powered it and turned the simulation on. A single neighbor connection, rail.

    Not all the farms developed, so I started zoning residentials amongst the farms.

    Around 30k population I lost all farm demand, and I still did not grow any large farm buildings.  Not even all the farm zones even developed. Added residential until population hit 100k. No farm demand ever showed up again.

     

    Not sure what is going on here.

    Should I have started this on a fresh region?

    Well, I start to think, that there is something within your Plugins, that messes around with the demand (besides the SPAM Mod). Did you start with a clean Plugins folder? What I mean is, everything gone except the SPAM? Do you use the NAM and CAM? NAM is fine, but the CAM Mods (both) are altering the same values the SPAM Mod does. And of course, it could be a totally unsuspicious weird modded building that starts all this. When I start a fresh region here, my demand is for I-R and I-D is very high, and that's how it should be, because that's were the poor R$ sims go to work. If you start on the fresh map with only farms in your plugins and the SPAM Mod you should see a difference I think.

    If not, I think you should perform this:

     

    to find out, what's going on. Goog luck testing!

    Kind regards!

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    SPAM farms can develop without water and power, although you'll need them for the higher stages. Provided you've a road connection, the basic farms should appear. I wonder when you say large farm buildings what you are expecting from the mod? Farms are a two-part system, one is the Farm Building, the other part is 1x1 tiles that make up fields with crops. SPAM farms aren't necessarily bigger than the Maxis ones in terms of the Farm Building part.

    Anything demand-related will be affected by the surrounding region, even a blank tile, if there are connections to it. A true test would be to find either a blank unconnected tile or new region then zone just farms and low density residential everywhere, maybe a little commercial as demand picks up for it too. There should be no issues keeping farm demand up in such a scenario.

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  • Original Poster
  • 8 hours ago, markussaage said:

    Well, I start to think, that there is something within your Plugins, that messes around with the demand (besides the SPAM Mod). Did you start with a clean Plugins folder? What I mean is, everything gone except the SPAM? Do you use the NAM and CAM? NAM is fine, but the CAM Mods (both) are altering the same values the SPAM Mod does. And of course, it could be a totally unsuspicious weird modded building that starts all this. When I start a fresh region here, my demand is for I-R and I-D is very high, and that's how it should be, because that's were the poor R$ sims go to work. If you start on the fresh map with only farms in your plugins and the SPAM Mod you should see a difference I think.

    If not, I think you should perform this:

     

    to find out, what's going on. Goog luck testing!

    Kind regards!

    I am only using the NAM, I'll try with just the SPAM and see if anything improves.

    6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    SPAM farms can develop without water and power, although you'll need them for the higher stages. Provided you've a road connection, the basic farms should appear. I wonder when you say large farm buildings what you are expecting from the mod? Farms are a two-part system, one is the Farm Building, the other part is 1x1 tiles that make up fields with crops. SPAM farms aren't necessarily bigger than the Maxis ones in terms of the Farm Building part.

    Anything demand-related will be affected by the surrounding region, even a blank tile, if there are connections to it. A true test would be to find either a blank unconnected tile or new region then zone just farms and low density residential everywhere, maybe a little commercial as demand picks up for it too. There should be no issues keeping farm demand up in such a scenario.

    Re: large buildings

    All the spam images show farm industrials that are larger than 1x2 or 1x1. Eg in this spam video,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfB91ag5uDI

    1:24, you can see a 5x6 grow., whereas for me I only get 1x2 or 2x1, like the one across the road from the 5x6 in the above vid.

    i'm going to try in a fresh region and report back.

     

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    Well, that bring me to the question: what farms besides those that come with the SPAM do you have in your plugins? The SPAM itself comes with 34 core lots up to 6x4 lot size, and those lots are an override for the existing SimCity 4 farms, that come with the game. You sure have those in the SPAM Mod folder, do you? Have you ever used this tool:

    to detemine the loading order of your files? If not, I would recommend that you do so and check, what happens inside you plugins. Maybe some files from the SPAM Mod are overwritten by others?! That could be one explanation for your problems. This tool come with a manual, read it carefully and make yourself familiar with it. It is very useful in the future, too.

    Kind regards!

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  • Original Poster
  • I created a fresh region.

    All plugins were removed except the SPAM. Even the NAM.  The only other unique lots I kept were a money generating lot and a power plant lot.

     

    I created two linked cities, around 30 k population each, entirely surrounded by farms.

    Yet again, only 1x2 lots grew on the farms.

    Very confused about this.

     

    I do have the larger lots in the SPAM folder.

    Am I just zoning farms incorrectly?  I just make large fields and wait for buildings to grow on them?

     

     

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    How much of the area zoned has a road/street connection? The farms only develop where there is a network next to the zoning, although the fields do not need to be surrounded by roads.

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    27 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

    How much of the area zoned has a road/street connection? The farms only develop where there is a network next to the zoning, although the fields do not need to be surrounded by roads.

    That's the question, how did you zone?! Like this maybe?!

    image.thumb.jpeg.6cb7d74a79c11632ae7d2fa7ca82f557.jpeg

    This is a Test Region... 0 (zero) residents in the pic above... At the start only small farms like 1x2 or 2x1 develop, sometimes a 2x3 or 3x2 farm, but that's normal. When I reach roughly 3300 residents I get already a stage 4 farm, size 5x6 (next pic) No problem at all... SP(C)AM, NAM, you name it in the Plugins... No industry though... No I-D or I-M zoned here... Farms only...

    image.thumb.jpeg.7e111e2769d1da04017d528436abf2df.jpeg

    And as you can see, the first year of existence isn't even over yet...

    image.thumb.jpeg.91159fd074ca91fb569143e436d1404b.jpeg

    So, even with just the SPAM farms in it, you should develop bigger farms pretty fast... The 5x6 here farm is now a SPAM Stage 4 farm, was a Non-SPAM Stage 3 farm before. I remodded it to my taste and to get more variety in farms growing. Don't have any idea, what's going on in your city... Maybe somebody else has another idea...

    Kind regards!

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  • Original Poster
  • The farms are entirely surrounded by roads.

     

    Very strange, you get larger buildings almost immediately.

     

    Also, I have realized I do not have the dirt roads in my menus like I should.

     

    I wonder if it is my game version, I am using the 1.1.610 version.

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    1 minute ago, monkeywater said:

    The farms are entirely surrounded by roads.

     

    Very strange, you get larger buildings almost immediately.

     

    Also, I have realized I do not have the dirt roads in my menus like I should.

     

    I wonder if it is my game version, I am using the 1.1.610 version.

    The dirt roads come with the NAM... but, do you really have the 1.1.610 version? Do you use the Vanilla version of SimCity4? No Rush Hour Addon? Is it the CD Version? Almost all MODs and customs buildings need the Rush Hour Addon to function properly... Hope you didn't by the digital Origin version?!

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    1 minute ago, monkeywater said:

    I wonder if it is my game version, I am using the 1.1.610 version.

    I can't say for SPAM, but even in 1.1.610 you can get the larger farms in vanilla as soon as stage 3 are ready to grow.

     

    Are you, by any chance, using the Pedriana Plants Killer Modd? That one is poorly modded and does the blocking by restricting all the larger farm footprints. If you do want to block that particular farm, you could try Cori's Friendly Pedriana's Plants Killer.

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    1 minute ago, CorinaMarie said:

    I can't say for SPAM, but even in 1.1.610 you can get the larger farms in vanilla as soon as stage 3 are ready to grow.

     

    Are you, by any chance, using the Pedriana Plants Killer Modd? That one is poorly modded and does the blocking by restricting all the larger farm footprints. If you do want to block that particular farm, you could try Cori's Friendly Pedriana's Plants Killer.

    Well, the SPAM farms are modded ingame farms plus a few new ones, if you don't have any other farms in your plugins... Haven't played Vanilla in years... *:D

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  • Original Poster
  • 2 minutes ago, markussaage said:

     Hope you didn't by the digital Origin version?!

    Yup. Unpatchable

    My NAM installation is also weird. Had to unpack the exe instead of installing it thanks to the version check.

     

    lets say I wanted to buy the new version again, where would I get it (Not Steam, I'm not putting bloatware on my computer just to play this)?  Amazon?

     

    I do get the large farm buildings when not using the SPAM.  I do not block Pendrianna plants

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    5 minutes ago, monkeywater said:

    Yup. Unpatchable

    My NAM installation is also weird. Had to unpack the exe instead of installing it thanks to the version check.

     

    lets say I wanted to buy the new version again, where would I get it (Not Steam, I'm not putting bloatware on my computer just to play this)?  Amazon?

     

    I do get the large farm buildings when not using the SPAM.  I do not block Pendrianna plants

    Oh my... Sorry to hear that... That's a pain the butt... You should check this thread out:

    Maybe you can return the game, get your money back and then a fully patched version from Amazon or GOG (was on sale there for $5 on Black Friday or so) with NO DRM... And the patches are really a MUST have for custom content....
    I guess we found the culprit here...

    Kind regards!

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    If you use this linky for the Gog version: https://www.gog.com/game/simcity_4_deluxe_edition/?pp=d764b9a532adfcd5a105af71e7278787b60fd43a then as an affiliate, Simtropolis gets a teeny, tiny faction of the price you pay. We consider this the best digital version there is, but any except Origin will be fine.

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