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[Decision] SC4, Skylines, SC2013, in order

SC4, Skylines, SC2013, in order  

82 members have voted

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  1. 1. Should the SC4 Forums be moved on the main Forums Index?

    • SC4 Forums should be moved to the top above CSL.
      49
    • SC4 Forums should be moved to just below CSL.
      21
    • SC4 Forums should stay right where they are.
      12

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  • Poll closed on 11/09/2017 at 07:09 AM

32 posts in this topic Last Reply

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Re-arranging the order of appearance.

@Tarkus mentioned in the Folders Discussion " Also, consider the absurdity of wanting to make the SC4 community more like the SC2013 community (which is basically dead, and has been for a couple years now)."

It's high time to reorder the appearance of the different forums: it should be 1st., SC4, 2nd., Skylines and 3rd., SC2013, me thinks.
After all, SC4 is the main forum, all others, and I mean ALL, come second by along shot.
Why, just convenience in surfing around. I for one, I never go to SC2013, and just once to Skylines. So it's a bit of a drag to scroll down, and down, and... just to get to where I want to go.

In fact, from my experience, SC3000 should be promoted to second place, but that's my personal preferences. Anyway this rant should give an idea.

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Whoa, @Tarkus! That is an extremely detailed analysis. Thanks. *:thumb:

@huzman How would you feel about making this a poll? And if so, maybe have these three choices:

  • SC4 Forums should be moved to the top above CSL.
  • SC4 Forums should be moved to just under CSL.
  • SC4 Forums should stay right where they are.

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  • Original Poster
  • 3 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    Whoa, @Tarkus! That is an extremely detailed analysis. Thanks. *:thumb:

    @huzman How would you feel about making this a poll? And if so, maybe have these three choices:

    @CorinaMarie took the words out my mouth. Making a Poll? I'm all for it. Maybe expanding it a little bit? Like, where do folks go to? What's the first thread of a given forum. Or maybe that's complicating  things. One thing tho: I ain't smart enough to know to make them poll things. But be my guest.

    @Tarkus That's a great insight about who is who. Thanks a lot.

    @Haljackey Well, what about that. That's pretty good trick.

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    6 minutes ago, huzman said:

    But be my guest.

    I've added a poll and I've set the votes to be anonymous.

     

    7 minutes ago, huzman said:

    Maybe expanding it a little bit? Like, where do folks go to? What's the first thread of a given forum. Or maybe that's complicating  things.

    I believe that would complicate things. *;)

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    I think it made sense for the new games to be put at the top, but we've had enough time for each game to establish its own popularity, and it's clear that SC2013 is dead. I'm fine with either CSL or SC4 being at the top, but SC2013 imo should be moved down. 

    I would also be in favor of consolidating subforums within each game into a smaller number of logical subforums, in order to make each one more vibrant. 

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    Like the books in my bookshelf, I think, order is good for orientation. Even if the mind - violated by school and education - often thinks all things have to be in order (even friends: very best friend, best friend, good friends, common friends) and so order becomes an instrument of discipline (law and order) - one shouldn't forget order is an instrument to help organisation, not to dictate organisation. There's no need to be afraid of chaos. The fear of chaos is some kind of occultism (chaos is associated with the devil).

    About how to order/sort things it's still Aristotle's logic (chapter about definitions: genus, species and difference) the best reading to get a quick instruction. Imho.

    So first question would be - why you need to sort things on the forum starting page.

    Me, being a member since 2009, I don't need an order - I'll find my stuff anyway. Also with the many new functions to filter content - which isn't much else than giving things an order by individual criteria - the visible order on the forum's start page seems not really functional to me. Once it had a function - but with time passing it became functionally obsolete as I don't access the forums most of the time via the overview but f.e. by listing the last activities.

    But ...

    ... it seems the front page of the forums is something like the shelf in a supermarket. So the question is: how should this shelf look like. It may be important for people first time visting like for their eyes wandering along the goods shelf.

    And so the questions seems to be - where to place the products so they catch peoples eyes. To attract them.

    Well it is plausible to always place your newest product on top. You won't place your best seller on top - because it sells already it doesn't need the extra advertising instead you would like to promote the new stuff by placing it quite in front of the customers eyes. So you would use the front page not for function (the functions are somewhere else) but to attract people. Also mostly it works this way - you place your newest product on top - because it is the most prominent. There are reviews in the journals and much discussion outside in the world and spots on TV - so there is a global interest for the newest product in media, it's the news itself - while on the older products there is rarely a 'hype' simply because everybody knows. So you would use this 'hype' about new products to attract people to your shop.

    Doesn't matter which product the consumers buys in your shop - important is, you get him into your shop. That's why you would put your newest product on top - not to promote this product but to promote your shop. Look: we have even the brand new xxx in stock.

    I doubt you can attract people to the simtropolis forums best with SC4. Because of this. Maybe they become interested when they are inside the shop. But first you have to attract them to the shop itself. And you would do this with something actual, not old. You attract people with the brand new sewing machne, then the client asks, can I do this and that - and then on second step, you'd say, no, but I have this other model, a little older and not so shiny, that can do. There is no need to sell the product you advertise.

    But now - Simtropolis doesn't advertise and sell products itself. Simtropolis doesn't take part in the market and doesn't make up the market but can only reflect the market - reflect what is playing in the gallery, the hype in media etc.. SC4 isn't much present in media. So to put it top on shelf imho would be a mistake ignoring the situation outside.   

    My five cents.

     

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    18 minutes ago, RandyE said:

    I can discuss the issues with SC 2013 elsewhere. 

    :ohyes:

    It's a little bit disappointing, I guess, if you come here to get support for an issue with sc2013 and there's almost nobody who can give this support. Imho even community's technical support for sc3000 is better.

    So the question maybe wrong - the question isn't where to put sc4, the question is where to put SC2013. It's nothing to see it like a race - who's doing better - it's just to be serious and not to promote forums almost dead and to not disappoint people seeking for help.

    Shure it would be best if there were many successfull city builders and there were plenty of topics. It's really nothing of 'win' and 'loose' as to loose a game because being insufficient isn't success, it's something sad. But doesn't help - if community can't give support we shouldn't fake there is support. Maybe this is the crucial point about the discussion. It's not about being more or less successfull games.

    As we, hopefully, don't care for success but for the fun playing and therefore supporting the fun of the players, not the success of the games.

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    1 minute ago, Fantozzi said:

    So the question maybe wrong - the question isn't where to put sc4, the question is where to put SC2013.

    That's a good point and moving that forum down is prolly a very good idea.

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    Regarding my personal take on the ordering, I'm okay with either SC4 or C:S being at the top.  Statistically, they're fairly close, and I think a strong case can be made either way.  SC2013, however, is in third place, and a very considerable distance behind the first two.

    The one very interesting thing that caught my eye with the stats, particularly on the C:S side, is that the General Discussion board for that game lags considerably behind the corresponding CJ and modding boards in activity.  Looking at those proportions, it would appear that ST actually has a role in the C:S world that is at least somewhat analogous to the one SC4 Devotion plays in the SC4 community.  The SC4 crowd here seems to have a higher percentage of casual players, as evidenced by the General Discussion breakdown there.

    -Tarkus

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    On 11/2/2017 at 1:09 PM, huzmansaid:

    Re-arranging the order of appearance.

    @Tarkus mentioned in the Folders Discussion " Also, consider the absurdity of wanting to make the SC4 community more like the SC2013 community (which is basically dead, and has been for a couple years now)."

    It's high time to reorder the appearance of the different forums: it should be 1st., SC4, 2nd., Skylines and 3rd., SC2013, me thinks.
    After all, SC4 is the main forum, all others, and I mean ALL, come second by along shot.
    Why, just convenience in surfing around. I for one, I never go to SC2013, and just once to Skylines. So it's a bit of a drag to scroll down, and down, and... just to get to where I want to go.

    In fact, from my experience, SC3000 should be promoted to second place, but that's my personal preferences. Anyway this rant should give an idea.

    That's reply of my post of Folder Discussion. In the topic, I think we should increase the competitiveness of network modding and stopping the NAM monopoly. But, I don't have intention to hate or even stop the NAM. But, you're deciding my topic to be agreed on, so agree or denying or silent is fine.

    I think, SC4 is above the C:S, although is last minute I voted below the C:S. This is due to the activity of SC4 community. Compared to other city-building games here, SC4 is more active than C:S as @Tarkus said.

    Thanks.

     

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    As of the moment I'm writing this, it's 60% for the first choice and 40% for the other two combined. I believe we can consider the 2nd two choices together to represent peeps who feel CSL should remain at the top. Does that seem like sound reasoning?

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    5 hours ago, Chief ZDN said:

    I think we should increase the competitiveness of network modding and stopping the NAM monopoly.

    Monopoly? Seriously?

    You misunderstand, we don't control the RUL codebase, we maintain it for the benefit of the entire community. Want to contribute, no problem, anyone can add their code. For example, look at this little mod, which couldn't work sans NAM code:

    So we added the code so it could work.

    Similarly the controller compiler allows for users to add code into the NAM, you could technically use it to create a custom set of RUL code not linked to the NAM. Whilst competing sets of code could be made, for almost every usage scenario, a single code-base which everyone can contribute towards makes a lot more sense. It prevents conflicts and ensures everything is interoperable together. Compare that to C:S modding where lots of mods won't work if you've other mods installed, it's much simpler for all if you ask me. We're not trying to be the overlords of RUL code, but by taking responsibility for it, I think a great service has been provided for all.

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    If you ask to me, SC4 should be at the very top...

    ...although I know that this is not the general "mentality" of ST, which is meant to be a catch-all site for all city-building simulation fans no matter what game they play. We all jumped hard on the SC2013 and C:S bandwagons at the time and the first bandwagon, which was noisy and chaotic at the beginning, is now empty and abandoned, while the second one keeps quite healthy. At some point, the C:S player base (and Paradox) will move on to other games, as it happens with any other games. I always believed that when the Reddit and Steam forums go progessively quiet, the hardcore fans will find their small place to meet at ST. Then, keeping C:S at the very top still makes some sense in order to "catch" those players seeking for an alternative to Reddit. 

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  • Original Poster
  • 3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    Monopoly? Seriously?

    I think this a non-issue. In fact, it shows a lack of understanding the issues and jumping to wrong conclusions.

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    7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

    Monopoly? Seriously?

    You misunderstand, we don't control the RUL codebase, we maintain it for the benefit of the entire community. Want to contribute, no problem, anyone can add their code. For example, look at this little mod, which couldn't work sans NAM code:

    So we added the code so it could work.

    Similarly the controller compiler allows for users to add code into the NAM, you could technically use it to create a custom set of RUL code not linked to the NAM. Whilst competing sets of code could be made, for almost every usage scenario, a single code-base which everyone can contribute towards makes a lot more sense. It prevents conflicts and ensures everything is interoperable together. Compare that to C:S modding where lots of mods won't work if you've other mods installed, it's much simpler for all if you ask me. We're not trying to be the overlords of RUL code, but by taking responsibility for it, I think a great service has been provided for all.

    Thanks for info. Sorry if I misunderstood.

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  • Original Poster
  • 8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    (If I didn't know better, I'd say this topic is starting to go off topic.)

    I agree. Although some people are making a point about the NAM, those points should on the NAM thread(s) or at least in a new topic.

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  • Original Poster
  • On 11/6/2017 at 6:11 AM, CorinaMarie said:

    It will end one week from the start of the topic which will be this coming Thursday at 2:09 AM EST.

    "So the polls have closed. The votes have been counted. And now, may we have the results?" (Some unknown politician in a dark and unknown country)

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    If we round off the numbers and factor them down, then add a total sample value then this is how the outcome of the poll looks to me.  The poll is a political structure, not a scientific one, but we could consider the total sample similar to the control group in science research.

    It is unknown how many would have voted 'none of the above' or 'other'.   There were 1,051 views of the page.  We can add that number of people who did not vote meaning either they were not members, they would have voted 'Other' , there are many multiple views by the same person, or they do not care either way. 

    To keep this post brief I haven't shown the math done but below are the results of my processing:

    Out of 113 votes/votes by default of no vote

    Effectively, there are 3 candidates in the election so we can just number them 1 to 3.

    1)    5 voted to put SC4 at the top   4.2%
    2)    2 voted to put SC4 below C:S.  1.8%
    3)    106 voted for either no change or some other change.  94%

    In pure direct democracy of 50% + 1 candidate 3 wins by a massive landslide.

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    5 hours ago, huzman said:

    "So the polls have closed. The votes have been counted. And now, may we have the results?" (Some unknown politician in a dark and unknown country)

    It is (and has been) in discussion among the admins and Dirk. We'll let you know once a decision is reached. Please do keep in mind a poll of this nature is advisory rather than being a referendum. *;)

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    Well, yes. Politicians ask the people what they like to have. Then they make a conference. And then they send a spokesman who will tell what the people are going to get. So, f.e. people ask for more security on the streets. And politicians decide to have more wardens walking around. And what people will get are more parking tickets.

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  • Original Poster
  • 6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

    a poll of this nature is advisory rather than being a referendum.

    Yeah, that's the truth.

    6 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

    And what people will get are more parking tickets.

    Thank God I stopped driving.

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             Benefit: Gas Power Plant Efficiency increased (Experts say this does not happen at all)

        Power
        Landfill Gas Recovery Program  ($20/mo + $50 per landfill tile) (Experts say its actually $20 + $0.001 per resident)
             Requirement: Must have at least 1 operating Landfill and at least 1 Gas Power Plant
             Benefit: Air Pollution globally reduced by 3%
             Benefit: Gas Power Plant Efficiency increased (Experts say this does not happen at all)

        Power Conservation Act  ($0/mo + $0.005/mo per resident)
             Benefit: Power consumption globally reduced by 10%
             Benefit: Power Neighbor Deal Costs reduced by 10%
             Bad Effect: All Industry Demand (except Farms) reduced by 5% (Experts say its actually only 0.50%)
             Bad Effect: Mayor Rating reduced by 10pts (Experts say this does not happen at all so 0%)
             Bad Effect: Lifespan of Power Plants reduced by 10% (Experts say this does not happen at all so 0%)

        Traffic
        Carpool Incentive Program  ($50/mo + $0.01 per resident)
             Benefit: Traffic congestion (volume) decreased by 20% (Experts say this does not happen at all so 0%.)

        Commuter Shuttle Service  ($20/mo + $0.005 per resident)
             Benefit: Air Pollution globally reduced by 2%
             Benefit: Mass Transportation use increased by 5% for R$, 14% for R$$, 33% for R$$$
             Benefit: Car Traffic reduced by 25% for R$, No change for R$$, 6% for R$$$

        Water
        Water Conservation Program  ($50/mo + $0.005 per resident)
             Benefit: Water consumption globally reduced by 10%
             Bad Effect: All Industry Demand reduced by 5% (Farms by 10%) (Experts say its actually as follows on the next 4 lines:
             Bad Effect: Farms Demand reduced by 0.83%
             Bad Effect: Dirty Industry Demand reduced by 0.50%
             Bad Effect: Manufacturing Industry Demand reduced by 0.33%
             Bad Effect: High-Tech Industry Demand reduced by 0.17%)

        Note: Experts say that each of these costs the small amount of $10 or $20 to enact and $10 or $20 to retract. However, I have not experienced this.

        Available Ordinance Mods List  (7)
        - Radical Ordinance V2.0 - Extreme ordinance benefit boost (considered a cheat by most)
        - Buggi's Super Demand Ordinance - Causes serious Demand Increase to grow your city huge. (considered a cheat by most)
        - RJ - Super Demand Ordinances - Separated - Changes half the ordinances to High Demand ordinances [Learn More] (considered a cheat by most)
        - RJ - Super Demand Ordinance - Farming - Changes one ordinance into a High Farm Demand ordinance [Learn More] (considered a cheat by most)
        - RJ - Reset Maxis Ordinances - Remove all mods, put this in, and it restores all Default Ordinances [Learn More] (considered a cheat by most)
        - Lottery Program - Turns one ordinanceinto a Lottery Income Ordinance (considered a cheat by most)
        - Cousin Vinnie Ordinance - Gives $200,000/mo with no negative effects (considered a cheat by most)
        - (More coming soon...)

        EA/Maxis Unfinished Ordinances  (26)
        Aerospace Incentive
        Alternate Driving Days
        Backyard Composting
        BioTech Incentive
        Bridge Tolls (INCOME)
        Center Line Maintenance
        Clean Industry Association
        Conservation Corps
        Crossing Guards
        Earthquake Preparation
        Electronics Job Fair
        Farmers Market
        Industry Pollution Fee (INCOME)
        Industrial Waste Disposal
        Lawn Chemical Ban
        Leaf Burning Ban
        Municiple Services
        Parking Fines (INCOME)
        Police Outreach
        Public Access Cable
        Shelters
        Smoking Ban
        Stairwell Lighting
        Subsidized Transit
        Water Meters
        Water Tower Ads (INCOME)

        User-Suggested Possible New Ordinances (13)
        Agricultural Pesticide Ban  (Cost $20/mo + $0.01 per Farm Job)
             Requirement: Must have at least 1 profitable Farm.
             Benefit: Water Pollution reduced by 10%
             Benefit: Health Quotient globally increased by 5%
             Bad Effect: Farms demand reduced by 2%
        Animal Cruelty Humane Society  (Cost: $50/mo + $5 per clinic/hospital)
             Benefit: Mayor Rating increased by 5pts
             Benefit: Crime globally reduced by 5%
        City/Region Lottery  ($100/mo INCOME + $0.001 per resident)
             Benefit: Mayor Rating increased by 5pts
             Bad Effect: Crime globally increased by 10%
        Condo/Hotel/Resort Program ($200/mo INCOME + $0.015 per R$$ and R$$$ resident)
               Benefit: Mayor Rating increased by 5pts
               Benefit: All Commercial Service Demand increased by 4% (Experts may suggest it only be 0.66%)
        Clean Water Act  (Cost $20/mo + $0.005 per resident)
             Benefit: Water Pollution reduced by 10%
             Benefit: Health Quotient globally increased by 5%
             Bad Effect (or Benefit): Dirty Industry Demand reduced by 5% 
        Double Parking Fines  ($20/mo INCOME + $0.001 per resident)
             Benefit: Mass Transportation use increased by 5% for R$, 2% for R$$, 1% for R$$$
             Benefit: Car Traffic reduced by 5% for R$, 2% for R$$, 1% for R$$$
             Bad Effect: Mayor Rating reduced by 5pts
        Financial Bailout Legislation  ($100/mo + $10 per government building)
             Requirement: Must have at least 1 government building.
             Benefit: All Commercial Demand increased by 0.83%
             Benefit: All Industrial Demand increased by 0.83%
             Bad Effect: Mayor Rating reduced by 10pts
             Bad Effect: Crime globally increased by 5%
             Bad Effect: Education Quotient globally decreased by 5%
             Bad Effect: Air Pollution globally increased by 1%
        Honor System Mass Transit Fare Collection ($100/mo + $0.1 per station)
               Benefit: Mass Transportation use increased by 50% for R$, 25% for R$$, 10% for R$$$
               Benefit: Maintenance costs of Mass Transportation Networks decreased by 10%
               Bad Effect: Mass Transportation revenue decreased by 20%
               Bad Effect: Crime globally increased by 10% [Fare Evaders]
        Jewelry Tax  ($20/mo INCOME + $0.1 per R$$$ resident)
             Bad Effect: Crime globally increased by 2%
             Bad Effect: Residential $$$ Demand reduced by 5% (Experts may suggest it only be 0.33%)
        Medical Reformation Act  ($10/mo + $10 per clinic/hospital)
             Benefit: Health Quotient globally increased by 15%
             Bad Effect: Mayor Rating decreased by 5pts
             Bad Effect: Commercial $ and $$ Office Demand reduced by 15% (Nurses) (Experts may suggest it only be 1%)
             Bad Effect: Commercial $$$ Office Demand reduced by 15% (Doctors) (Experts may suggest it only be 0.5%)
        Parking Meters  ($20/mo INCOME + $0.001 per resident)
             Benefit: Mass Transportation use increased by 5% for R$, 2% for R$$, 1% for R$$$
             Benefit: Car Traffic reduced by 5% for R$, 2% for R$$, 1% for R$$$
             Bad Effect: Mayor Rating reduced by 5pts
        Space Exploration Program  (Cost: $100/mo + $0.01 per I-HT Job)
             Requirement: Must have at least 1500 High-Tech Industry Jobs.
             Benefit: High-Tech Industry Demand increased by 10% (Experts may suggest it only be 0.83%)
             Benefit: Manufacturing Industry Demand increased by 2% (Experts may suggest it only be 0.33%)
        Universal Healthcare  ($100/mo + $0.01 per resident)
            Requirement: Must have at least 2 Hospitals.
             Benefit: Mayor Rating increased by 5pts
             Benefit: Commercial $ and $$ Office Demand increased by 15% (Nurses) (Experts may suggest it only be 1%)
             Benefit: Commercial $$$ Office Demand increased by 15% (Doctors) (Experts may suggest it only be 0.5%)
             Bad Effect: Health Quotient globally decreased by 15%
      • By SharkD
        I'm interested in emulating SimCity terrain generation for a LEGO project I am working on. Could someone explain the differences between SC3K and SC4 terrain?
        IIRC, SC3K has three vertical slope levels, and can only model right angles and 45 degree angles. How are things different in SC4? Does SC4 also limit you in this way?
        Thanks.
      • By Jackson_Evans
        hi all i wanted to ask if someone is maybe willing to look into posting a new mod for SimCity 2013? i would love to see omega factory cheat and robots cheats that the building capicitys are increased and they dont run out of rrobots... i find it a pain to produce them and sadly not all mods work properly....
         
        also i woulld love you if you ccould mod a park and greatly extend the range that it "modernizes" the streets and houses to a full map if placed in the middle....
         
        i would be glad to see all roads modern without so much parks takking up needed space..... :)]
         
        thank and happy playing!
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