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BTW, at 357 MB, and with many people wanting it at the same time, these NAM releases would be decent candidates for bittorrent. By torrenting, each downloader becomes another server, relieving hosts of much bandwidth strain, especially during the initial rush.

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24 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

BTW, at 357 MB, and with many people wanting it at the same time, these NAM releases would be decent candidates for bittorrent. By torrenting, each downloader becomes another server, relieving hosts of much bandwidth strain, especially during the initial rush.

There is a good reason to avoid that: by every reciever becoming another server, the control of the available releases becomes impossible for the NAM Team, and to offer support to the current version and all of the others that are still being distributed by torrents is ostensibly more difficult.

Also, there is a better reason: there is a verbal accord to not distribute anything based on Maxis' material by peer-to-peer media, as it fringes on an illegal activity.

As you can see, the initial rush for NAM 36 came and went without plunging out any of the dedicated sites, so bandwidth issues on the supply side aren't really pressing right now.

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Indeed, in a short space of time the bandwidth issue seems to be less of a problem these days than it ever was. Partially that's because there are less people I suspect playing SC4, but also in the ever more connected world, the cost of data/bandwidth are becoming more reasonable.

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The possibility of using the "t-word" to distribute was actually discussed internally when we went to the "monolithic" NAM package for NAM 31.  We decided against it for the two reasons @matias93 described.  We became particularly invested in ensuring that old versions did not remain easily accessible, after a massive tech support headache back in 2007, when we got flooded with users trying to use brand-new NAM 21 addons with freshly-downloaded copies of NAM 20.

-Tarkus

 

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15 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Aha, that explains why an old NAM download page was updated rather than a new download created for (and labeled as) NAM 36.

Indeed--and if anyone's curious to see what the sort of fallout of that NAM 21/NAM 20 mix-and-match conflict looked like, it starts here.  It brought the dreaded "red arrow" to the forefront (which our monolithic package has virtually eliminated).  The images, when they were still there, really underscored it.

In case anyone is wondering what the stats are with the downloads, in the past week, NAM 36 has gotten just shy of 1800 downloads across all three distribution sites, presently averaging about 256 per day.  About 52% of those downloads have been off the STEX, 28% from ModDB, and 20% from the LEX.  Release day saw about 378 downloads.  ModDB is probably shouldering about an equal bandwidth load to ST, however, as it's the one site with the Mac version (which is about twice the size of the Windows version).

By comparison, in years past, we'd be between 700-1000 downloads per day right in the wake of release, and that average would fall down to about 250 per day a few months after release.  Based on current trends, we're probably going to fall to somewhere around 100-150 per day once things settle.  No one site is shouldering more than 100 per day the past couple days.

-Tarkus

 

 

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Been trying to familiarize myself with the new NAM - so is there a trick to doing ERRW (draggable, NAM 36)?  I am getting odd gaps where the elevated rail is just not being used.  I did read the docs and it said something about placing a rail piece over non-rail networks, but I've done that and I still get gaps in usage.

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I don't know where to post it but it's a tangential NAM issue : a lot of rail stations lots have been included in the NAM 36 and automatically show up with the right RRW rail textures. There is an NDEX-DuskTrooper one I like a lot and I wonder if it could be included in the next NAM iteration -- or if someone from the NAM"s team could do something for it -- if anything is possible ; somehow I doubt it, as the rail texture seems to be part of the building, but one never knows, with the miracles accomplished these days with SC4 stuff... *:ohyes:

NDEX%20Manta%20Station%20-%20copie-L.jpg

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On 12/03/2018 at 1:00 AM, RobertLM78 said:

I am getting odd gaps where the elevated rail is just not being used.

It would be helpful if you could give us a specific example where this occurs. Did you use DrawPaths to check the pathing was correct?, that's usually the most common reason for broken sections.

7 hours ago, tariely said:

a lot of rail stations lots have been included in the NAM 36 and automatically show up with the right RRW rail textures

This isn't really accurate, although that may be how things seem.

Any stations included with the NAM were done so as part of the SLURP process. That is with the exception of updates to the Maxis stations and those selectable in the NAM installer. SLURP in essence looks to update the modding of a number of popular transit stations on the exchanges. But these updates are tightly centred on things like transit switches, to ensure optimal station usage and inter-operability in-game.

  • These updates will only be installed when users have already installed the original station.
  • Such updates do not alter the textures on the lot. I.e., if RRW textures appear, it's because other things are making that happen.
    For example, any lots that use the default Maxis ortho rail overlay will be updated the RRW using NAM included overrides. It should be noted though that the NAM overrides will only ever cover those textures included by Maxis and in the NAM. For everything else, you will need to resort to third part mods, where available.
7 hours ago, tariely said:

don't know where to post it but it's a tangential NAM issue

That's not really the case here, the NAM project simply can not cover all 3rd party stations or mods. We're a very small team, but even so, the buck has to stop somewhere.

In the specific case of rails being modded as part of a station, whilst it's technically possible to alter, it's hugely time consuming and specialised work. Also the results are rarely great, especially for lower zooms. If one had access to the original modelling files used to make it, then changing it would be much quicker. Honestly, I wish people wouldn't BAT such textures in, it makes no sense when a LE texture can do the job quicker and more flexibly. In any case, such modifications are well outside of the scope of the NAM mod.

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Some of these old lots do indeed have baked-in textures - which means until re-rendered they won't make the grade. For this one I've edited the Zoom 3,4 FSH and the station is relotted to have a RRW overlay. It looks like this - optically good until a train passes through - when you'll see weirdness because the LODs on the models are not changed.

 NDEX_MANTA.jpg.4f75bb53d339b1e186afb6f86f14222b.jpg

Unzip attached file into the same place that you have the Original NDEX Lot. Will not work without.

DTB_TR_UHP_MANTA_1x3S_RRWPatched.zip

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3 hours ago, tariely said:

I should check the list of the updated stations --must be somewhere in the NAM readme ?

Actually I doubt there is one in the documentation. It's a seamless feature, you get the updates if you have the relevant stations installed. It was not thought that users would specifically install the stations which had been updated, so listing them just never seemed hugely necessary.

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Oh. So how do we know which are "the most popular" stations ? I don't know for instance is my "populars" are yours, or rivit's or anyone else's... (And I installed NAM 36 in my Work Folder, i.e. not my Game Folder, i.e. no rail stations (or any other) installed. I got the ones I checked during the install -- mostly EL Rail and monorail -- but...)

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13 hours ago, rsc204 said:

It would be helpful if you could give us a specific example where this occurs. Did you use DrawPaths to check the pathing was correct?, that's usually the most common reason for broken sections.

Thanks for the response!  I am beginning to think it's just the nature of the city.  There is a tram system as well, built before any RW stations, that is getting good usage.  I checked the paths and with the cheat toggled on, there were complete orange lines to signify the rail paths (no breaks).  However when I tried to toggle off the cheat (i.e. 'Drawpaths off'),  the paths were still there mostly (all networks).   The interesting thing is that three ERRW bridges (two avenue crossings and a road crossing)  were missing the orange pathing.  I'm not sure if that's a result of attempting to toggle off the cheat, or if it's an indicator of a problem with the network.  After having playing around with that cheat, I'm assuming that there is no real way to turn it off, and saving even with it toggled off has the regional view all colourful from the paths XD.

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2 hours ago, RobertLM78 said:

I'm assuming that there is no real way to turn it off

to turn paths on - drawpaths,  off hidepaths  

if the paths don't link up after you have dragged the network through the ERRW viaducts they may actually be missing - do you have RUM for RRW v5 installed? this has corrections and extensions for the ERRW network made after NAM36 was released.

If the problem persists after that we'll need to check the files themselves.

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1 hour ago, rivit said:

do you have RUM for RRW v5 installed? this has corrections and extensions for the ERRW network made after NAM36 was released

Okay, had to go check - I have downloaded it but hadn't installed it yet.  I think I was a bit intimidated so I hadn't messed with it yet - so are you saying that there is something broken with vanilla ERRW in NAM36?  I will install shortly and see how that goes.  Thanks!

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14 hours ago, tariely said:

So how do we know which are "the most popular" stations ?

The point is, you don't have to. IF you have a station we've updated installed, you get the patch for it. But if not, you don't need them.

We never thought users would be basing their decisions on which stations to install, on those which were patched. I literally don't have a list I can just copy/paste here. If you are really keen to know, take a look inside the NAM installer (You can open it with 7zip as an Archive), the following folder; $[125]\MTA Station Overrides\, contains all such fixes.

Bear in mind you'll find 4x each lot here and each file has an identical file name used in the original lot, so it won't necessarily be obvious in all cases what station/creator is might be.

14 hours ago, tariely said:

(And I installed NAM 36 in my Work Folder, i.e. not my Game Folder, i.e. no rail stations (or any other) installed. I got the ones I checked during the install -- mostly EL Rail and monorail -- but...)

If you don't use the installer as intended, you can't expect things like this to work. Indeed, if you install NAM outside of the location where such stations reside, it won't see them and will not install the patches. Similarly, it might see stations you don't have in your Game folder, but do in the Work folder. So it installs parts of lots you won't actually be using, which leads to problems. Perhaps the cause of the issue with the SG stations?

However, you can't expect the NAM team to reasonably support you if you are using such custom setups. My advice would be to move the NAM folders before installing then move them back afterwards. Bear in mind, you might need different NAM installs for different setups, it really depends on how your system works.

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12 hours ago, RobertLM78 said:

The interesting thing is that three ERRW bridges (two avenue crossings and a road crossing)  were missing the orange pathing.

Using a test setup of NAM 36, I checked the OxO ERRWxAve and ERRWxRoad crossings for both L1 and L2. Not only were the paths there (RHD tested), but automata were using them in addition to rail passengers without issue.

12 hours ago, RobertLM78 said:

However when I tried to toggle off the cheat (i.e. 'Drawpaths off')...

At this point all paths should disappear from the display. If not, try changing zoom or rotation, which should refresh your display. Some GPUs/Drivers will do this automatically better than others.

It doesn't matte which paths you see when you've toggled Drawpaths Off, only that they are correct when it's toggled On, anything else could not be trusted as data.

7 hours ago, RobertLM78 said:

so are you saying that there is something broken with vanilla ERRW in NAM36?  I will install shortly and see how that goes.  Thanks!

Pathing wise, no there shouldn't be (unless @rivit's caught something I missed [or forgot about *:???:]). Especially regarding the ERRW, I verified all pathing personally, so unless you can show me a specific example that's broken, I'd have to assume they are not. There were some tweaks, but to my knowledge most of them were cosmetic.

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1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Pathing wise, no there shouldn't be

I agree - I haven't found any missing either. The RUM question was more for info.

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2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

It doesn't matte which paths you see when you've toggled Drawpaths Off, only that they are correct when it's toggled On, anything else could not be trusted as data.

And indeed they were - so I suspect it's just the circumstances of the city.  I guess if it persists over the next couple cities then we can assume it isn't just circumstance of layout.    Before checking with drawpaths I had just built a PP viaduct instead, which was seeing usage (of course that could just be good ol' SC4 quirkiness).   I feel confident enough to move forward, and absolute worst case scenario I build PP viaducts and worry about draggle only for the (diagonal) crossing I'm working on, which I can get back to now that I feel like I've familiarized myself with RRW.  :}

Good to hear there weren't any problems 'out of the box', too.  *;)

 

Thanks @rivit - nice work on the modd - looks great!  *:thumb:

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@rsc204 You say :  If you don't use the installer as intended, you can't expect things like this to work. Indeed, if you install NAM outside of the location where such stations reside, it won't see them and will not install the patches. Similarly, it might see stations you don't have in your Game folder, but do in the Work folder. So it installs parts of lots you won't actually be using, which leads to problems. Perhaps the cause of the issue with the SG stations?

Indeed. After I posted my question, I arrived (belatedly, but better late than never) at the right conclusion : I should (re)Install NAM 36 in my game folder.  And you confirm it.*:)

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Further work with the draggable ERRW network has convinced me that there is indeed something wrong.... further, I think more specifically it is the draggable crossings that are the culprit. 

I had built a completely draggable network which, unlike the last place, was a network which lent itself to reasonable usage.  As soon as I tore down (most of) the draggable network and rebuilt it with puzzle pieces the network was seeing very good usage.   I purposely left a small section near the edge with a draggable crossing.   No sim yet is using the track with the crossing, though I plan on replacing it momentarily to see if that changes things. 

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I'm trying to rack my brains as to why there would be a problem, despite the pathing and other related parts all being in place. This is frankly beyond my skills with transport modding to explain, perhaps @Tarkus or @Eggman121 may have some ideas given their better understanding of the inner workings.

I did extensively test the pathing, because I was heavily involved in a major RRW overhaul, but by testing, I only visually checked they all existed. Any actual traffic/UDI testing was rather minimal by comparison. However, if you can use the UDI and drive a train along the problematic sections, they should in theory work as a rail network. But I would also have thought by now if there were some deep functional issues, we'd have received more reports of them. As such, I have to ask:

  • What version of SC4 are you running, Disk or Digital?
    • If Disk do you have both the official patches and run from the disk itself?
    • If Digital, is it the borked Origin version or a properly patched 641 edition?

I'm sure you can understand that before spending ages poking down the rabbit hole, we need to be certain your game is working properly first.

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6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

However, if you can use the UDI and drive a train along the problematic sections, they should in theory work as a rail network. But I would also have thought by now if there were some deep functional issues, we'd have received more reports of them

Unfortunately, I'd never tried UDI with a draggable network, but I can attest to automata not having any difficulties, as I have freight and passenger rail automata generators which I used in the first city with a draggable network.  Other than the usual necessity to save and exit before the trains will actually travel through the stations, the automata generators and resulting automata work fine, crossing all crossings without issue.  However, as we know, actual usage was zero. 

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

What version of SC4 are you running, Disk or Digital?

  • If Disk do you have both the official patches and run from the disk itself?
  • If Digital, is it the borked Origin version or a properly patched 641 edition?

 

I run Disk version, fully patched to 640 (so working nightlights). 

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I'm sure you can understand that before spending ages poking down the rabbit hole, we need to be certain your game is working properly first.

Definitely understand *:D

 

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20 hours ago, RobertLM78 said:

Further work with the draggable ERRW network has convinced me that there is indeed something wrong.... further, I think more specifically it is the draggable crossings that are the culprit. 

I had built a completely draggable network which, unlike the last place, was a network which lent itself to reasonable usage.  As soon as I tore down (most of) the draggable network and rebuilt it with puzzle pieces the network was seeing very good usage.   I purposely left a small section near the edge with a draggable crossing.   No sim yet is using the track with the crossing, though I plan on replacing it momentarily to see if that changes things. 

You have to use the rail tool and click on the crossings for the automata to use the ERRW. This is due to needing a rail code in the piece.... Just like the level crossings.

So all you have to do is place a blank rail tile on the crossing networks and the passenger automata will start using the network.

Please Refer to this video...

-eggman121 (NAM Team member)

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4 hours ago, Eggman121 said:

So all you have to do is place a blank rail tile on the crossing networks and the passenger automata will start using the network

I thought that was the case - it may well be I missed some odd road or street crossing.    I'll keep faffing with it *;)

Thanks!  :thumb:

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Hello,

I am new to this forum but was wondering where I could purchase a copy of SimCity 4 Deluxe that will be compatible with the NAM?,

I understand that the Steam version no longer supports the NAM,

Please do let me know as I am unsure and really want to play the game without the terrible traffic issues,

Thanks

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