Jump to content

13 posts in this topic Last Reply

Recommended Posts

A curious situation happened to me with a given city. It was (is) a losing situation : high unemployment, dwindling funds, no growth, etc... So I though to nuke the city. If I choose the option from the main Region map to delete the city, everything gets erased including the topographical map. I didn't want that, of course. So I decide(d) to erase everything with the B/V options. Once that done, I reset my Moolah back to 500 000§. That's when I asked myself "Am I cheating or not". On this case, I didn't think so.

But then, changing the city/region/mayor's name, is it cheating ? I don't think so.

Using Ctlr+x to have all the techniques, then yes that's cheating. So there is a subtle from cheating or not. What do you think ?

(BTW, I think that outright cheating is a way of showing a very low opinion of yourself)

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this game is serious enough or difficult enough to label the game's "cheat" codes and debugging tools as cheating and not being true to yourself. There isn't an adventure or story to discover, no gates to pass through. No monsters to block your path. You may not get the intended experience in other games if you cheat, but SimCity doesn't work that way.

Generally speaking I wouldn't worry about it.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I only work with real tools without the wild money. Sometimes the tool "Cheats" helps me to solve problems that do not wanted to solve in the original MAXIS SC4 !

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

We use the term 'cheat' more so innocently with a sense of humor.  Its not really a cheat if you declare you are using a cheat.  

In competitive games if someone uses a cheat, conceals that they are using a cheat, and then apparantly expects others to be convinced that they have some kind of advanced skill over them, then yes, that could be frowned upon by others, or maybe not. 

In the Gamer world, your peers more often would likely figure out the cheat and enjoy informing you that they did, the Gamer world is somewhat more generally civilized than the real world. 

City-Builder games are not competitive, they engage individuals in a simulation, and individuals share their experience using the simulation.  We often share our knowledge of how to cheat, in non-competitive games, 'cheating' becomes somewhat part of the game itself.

Of course I use cheats, I cheat everyday, sometimes I cheat all day...  Its extremely rare I don't cheat, but if I'm actually not cheating, I'll probably tell you, or maybe not. :) 

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

SC4 from Maxis was done in a very crude ( and BAT Bldgs and other Addons) , and they wanted to go very fast for the money. Very soon they left us. Only Simtropolis and SC4Devotion to keep the boat on the surface. A huge thank you to them. Huge work has been done in Japan, South America, France, even PR Korea and Pegasus (but that's another planet). But today there is only Devotion and Simtropolis with hundreds of fans to keep the SC4 world. That's life. *:party:*:party:*:party:

Today I look at SC2013 and Skylines and I only see the cartoons that will not enter my heart.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, I decide when I start a city what my goal and constraints are going to be.

When I first started playing that goal was to create a successful single city tile with 100k Sims using only the ingame tools and not the cheat console. While I never went bankrupt, I was having lots of difficulties so then I did use a few cheats to play sandbox-like for practice and I learned a bit. Then I started over on my original mission. It took me several months, but I did finally achieve my goal and I was satisfied that I could do it.

After that I then decided what parts did I want to be a challenge and which parts don't I really care about. For me that was then the money part that I could toss out. I got the Money Park Gnome Towers and placed the 5k per month one in my next city. I added a 2nd when that wasn't enough. At this point the fun challenge to me was the traffic and beauty of my city. Much later I've learned to make some simple mods and the two I use in my farm region is that the Ag pays 5x the amount of the tax rate they are assigned in game and I made the open grass area park to cost negative one per month maintenance. That's sufficient for my current play style.

For a non-competitive game whatever you do is only cheating if you get that funny, icky feeling in your tummy when you do something. You are your own best judge of that.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

I play Minecraft on servers where I can enter creative mode at any time and change the world. I've learned from experience that doing so indiscriminately wipes away all of the "game" tasks of a world. It's like basketball with the basket moved to the floor: Putting something in the basket is no longer a game but a chore.

Like CM, I choose which features of SC4 I want to wrestle with, and which are "bugs" to be worked around. I want to build cities where traffic flows through reasonable networks, and I even want my budget to make a profit (I must be a black-hearted capitalist). However, I do not want to pay for all of the glitches where tricky draggable mods create rats' nests of unexpected overrides / intersections. I also do not want to pay for bridges that promised to be high enough for ferries but weren't.

Whenever some part of the game temps me to tear my hair out, even after saving something I thought was right, I just demolish the mistake and pay myself moolah to do it over until I learn how to control the tools well enough to build what I asked for. I treat the game as if it had a planning mode, an undo button, and/or a rollback feature.

BTW, It would be really nice if I could commit rights-of-way to highways, interchanges, rails etc without actually building them and owing maintenance. Then I could drag out certain networks long before my cities needed them or could afford them, helping me to build my early-days towns around their future needs.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, with a video game, cheating would involve gaining an advantage towards fixed objectives. As SC4 has no end goals, these should really be considered standard tools of the trade. It's completely your choice how to play, whether in sandbox style or managing city finances and trying to maintain a surplus profit. Also since the game is clearly single player, without online leaderboards or achievements, this means no one else is affected by your choices.

If using the Extra DLL, some of the commands still have unknown functionality. They were apparently used by Maxis for debugging purposes prior to the game's release. There's also a few new codes @simmaster07 added in an Extra (Extra) DLL. So really, dev tools they are just that.

The same thing could be applied to 'radical' mods/lots. Things like money trees, mega power stations, and garbage reducers. There are no limits in SC4. *;)

All these are simply additional tools to use at your mayoral discretion, so don't worry about it.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well games are done for fun and to fail in a game - other than in real life - shouldn't cause much worries. If you knew Major Fantozzi - his prefered game strategy is bulldozing. One could say, he zones and bulldozes until a short amount is left over he is satisfied with. 

On cheats in my opinion the rule is simple: if they break your gaming fun, they are bad cheats. Everything that enhances the fun is good.

Take CJ artists f.e. they plop and replop and all this costs money. So to get the look they want - why not use a money cheat to have endless plopping possibilites?

Me, I play a little bit a mixture of all the possibilites the community gave through the years. I can spent a lot of money creating interchanges and destroy them - and then I use moolah for this. On the other hand I want to have finances/growth and desire in balance - as without challenge it would be less fun to me.

So even if the challenge is your fun - you didn't kill the fun - you just settled the conditions you want to play with. You know, you can mod content in both ways - to make things harder and to make things easier. Most of the downloads make things easier but you could mod your game also to make it ultra difficult.

Not shure how to name that - would it be cheating too? The umbrella term is 'manipulation'. And that's what you might consider - not every manipulation is cheating.

Manipulating the game - well, that's what offers the possibilities to have new experiences. And that's a great part of the fun, imho.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • I love the feedback. But I'm talking about morality. This is a personally personal attitude . It shows the author's personality.

    6 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

    cheating would involve gaining an advantage towards fixed objectives

    But there are objectives ! "The biggest Region/City, The most amount of money, etc...", again the morality is not about obtaining those goals, but how YOU feel about it and how other people perceive you.


    5 hours ago, Fantozzi said:

    On cheats in my opinion the rule is simple: if they break your gaming fun, they are bad cheats. Everything that enhances the fun is good.

    Thus there's a difference between good and bad cheats. That's my whole point.

    Share this post

    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    To Cheat, or Not to Cheat, that is the Question.   In the simulator we are playing a role of Mayor, and how we play that role could be pure fun, it could be a form of therapy, it could be mostly educational, artistic or technical, and what role or different roles the individual chooses reflect their personality and character, their experiences and dreams. 

    In terms of SC4 as an example, the game also already has its own ethics and morals, personality and character established by Maxis and the programmers who designed the game, as well the game is a family-friendly game with a mostly positive view of life and the world, so it allows us to take a break from the real world that can sometimes be a constant negative.

    I use SC4 for all the above, so I can flip through all the files and CJs on Simtropolis and relate to most of the material generated by others, sometimes I'm challenged by others to evaluate myself in how I respond, and as I go along I become a better human being by learning more social skill and experience.    I thoroughly enjoy the city builder/simulator and all what we can do with it, and as well enjoy participating socially in the community.   

    From a psychology point of view, yes, to some degree what we project onto a fantasy can say a lot about our personal condition, but human beings can be far more complex.   I think the answers given here have a clear consensus that its all about free choice and personal enjoyment.   

    What I have are several different Plugins folder setups, each with a different approach and design of the simulator.  I can do different things, explore, practice, express, learn different things or play different roles.  The community provides many examples to take from...  As the banner at the top of the front page of Simtropolis says...

    Many Cities, One Community.

    Share this post

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
  • Original Poster
  • 19 hours ago, RandyE said:

    To Cheat, or Not to Cheat, that is the Question.

    @RandyE: That's what I am asking about. To use a certain "cheat" and feel a little disturbed, then that's one answer. Just like I said in the first post, those are another answer. I loved your post.

    Well, I have learned a lot and a little about morality. But these are wonderful insights about SimCity and its players. So thanks for all the input.

    Share this post

    Link to post
    Share on other sites
    On 21/03/2017 at 5:40 PM, huzman said:

    But there are objectives ! "The biggest Region/City, The most amount of money, etc...", again the morality is not about obtaining those goals, but how YOU feel about it and how other people perceive you.

    Sure, I guess it can be viewed either way.

    Just like there's numerous play styles, there's also various mindsets. You can define your own objectives and no one is there to dictate the path you take to reach them. It's great there is this freedom, without being judged on every step you take. SC4 is a creative process. Being such an open-ended game means others are more likely interested seeing how your city turns out, rather than precisely how you get from A to B. As you're the mayor, you decide the rulebook.

    Well, maybe Neil Fairbanks and co. would have another opinion.

    From this statement it sounds like they prefer slightly different financial strategies...


    "Last time I was in such a tight budget situation, I shredded my socks - just to ease the tension!"


    So whatever works I suppose... *;)

    Share this post

    Link to post
    Share on other sites

    Create an account or sign in to comment

    You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

    Create an Account  

    Sign up to join our friendly community. It's easy!  

    Register a New Account

    Sign In  

    Already have an account? Sign in here.

    Sign In Now

    • Similar Content

      • By Belfastsocrates
        @Bipin requested I upload these concrete retaining walls as he no longer has access to the files. These walls are solely the creative output of Bipin and I take no credit whatsoever nor assume responsibility for them. 
        Please bear in mind these walls were never released as a 'final version' and should be considered a test/draft version and treated as such by members.
        The walls contain a variety of retaining wall pieces as you can see from the images. I have only tested them with 10, 12 and 14 metre-high embankments and as you can see from the image the 'boutiques' entrance is best suited to use at 10m. Placing the corners can take a bit of trial and error so be patient, remember these are not a final release. 
        Walls should appear in the Misc Transport menu
        Redistribution of these files is forbidden without the express permission of @Bipin
        Lot Files include;
        bipin_retainConcreteSD_1_1ee99f0a bipin_retainConcreteSD_1_sidewalk_1ee9f7d2 bipin_retainConcreteSD_2_9ee99fd4 bipin_retainConcreteSD_3_9ee99ff7 bipin_retainConcreteSD_bee98991 bipin_retainConcreteSD_corner_bee9a93d bipin_retainConcreteSD_corner_sidewalk_5ee9f84a bipin_retainConcreteSD_corner_sidewalk2_fee9f8f8 bipin_retainConcreteSD_UB_dee9e094 bipin_retainConcreteSD_UB_sidewalk_1ee9f76c bipinboutique_2_5eebe300  
        Dependencies required  - 
        PEG-MTP Texture Pack Volume 2
      • By tariely
        TL-Obelisk Place 4x5 (seasonal)
        This one is all my own – but couldn’t have been without Vnaoned beautiful obelisk. And it is for Dreadnought, who loves the Needle. (Bonus : it can be combined with several other of my parks and plazas using the same pavement texture).
        Many thanks to my technical gurus, Rsc204, Kosc and Dreadnought. And especially Rivit, who lighted my SC4world. Also the willing victims of the beta-tests, RobertLM78, Handyman and, again, Dreadnought. And the guys and gals on the forums (Twalsh, Matias93, Fantozzi…). We need help when we begin sneaking a peek under the hood of SC4. That the community is always willing to lend a hand is a constant and pleasant reassurance for us noobies.
        Stats :
        Plopcost :  500 (come on, all that water, and all those trees ?)
        Park Effect : mag.20 rad. 40
        Pollution : Air -16
        Landmark effect : mag.100 ; radius 10
        And this is for SC4 Rush Hour...
        Dependencies : (again, mostly the same as my other park & plazas...but so much less !)
        BSC MegaProps_CP_Vol01.dat
        BSC MegaProps_swi21_Vol01.dat
        BSC Textures vol.02.dat
        DEL_People MMP.dat
        in VIP Delecto Ploppable People
        FrankU General Essentials v1.dat :
        in BNL essentials v.1.2
        Nams Props Pack Vol.1.dat
        Nams Props Pack Vol.2.dat
        In Nams Props Pack 1 & 2 :
        NDEX Base Texture Set 1.dat
        PEG PPond Kit 102
        VIP-Vnaoned Propspack vol01
        wmp_garden_props02.dat : see down the list on
        in WMP Power Lots :
        RVT_ParkLights2.dat (included)
        zLightCones_RVTNite.dat (included)
         Depending on your using or not a Light Replacement Mod, the lighting will be slightly different, but There Will Be Light. (If using LRM and finding your own lights too dim, take out zLightCones_RVTNite.dat).
        And NB : to see the trees, you must let the game run for a few months
        Entry 1:
        So I've been playing SC4 for about ten years now and most of that time was spent with the vanilla version of the game. Then a year ago I saw videos of various mods and whilst aware of their existence I was rather discouraged about using them for fear of their complexity.
        Well after some disasters I finally learnt the art of building up a portofolio of plugins as well as managing them correctly. Over the last three months (after I had to remove all the plugins because I did a bad job with the management) I've downloaded about 3.6 GB of plugins: thousands of buildings, thousands more of props, NAM, SAM, X-ports, slope mods, maps, tree controllers, terrains, more utilities plus civic facilities, parks and all sorts.
        It's almost overwhelming the choices you have and I've only explored at most a third of all the content I have downloaded. So as such I am still experimenting with my new toys and this is why this CJ is going to be more like a scrapbook. There is no coherent narrative just various pictures of my cities, furthermore there will be all kinds of quirks, oddities, blips and bloopers as I mess around with this huge palette.
        I had various requests from my SimCity 2013 CJ about starting a SC4 CJ so here it goes. May I introduce the city of Tamboria (in bits and pieces!).

        This is part of Eastern Tamboria.

        Here is Tamboria's primary power plant, this is also an important regional power plant as well.

        And of course no city can function without an oil terminal...

        ... or function without substations either. It took me a while but I finally found a substation prop configuration which I found aesthetically pleasing.

        While NAM is pretty darn cool, I think the rail catenaries are totally awesome!

        Tamboria's main hospital, centre right..

        Of course no city is complete without its recreational facilities. Behold Eastern Tamboria's sport's arena which serves both for American football and for track athletics as well.

        Complimenting the mayor's generous provision of recreational areas are the mini-parks.

        Whilst designated green areas are yet another means for overworked Sims to stretch their feet.

        Last, but not least, is the downtown WTC area.
        Well that is it for this first entry. The next couple of entries will explore Tamboria more deeply, so stay tuned!
        Apologies if the interface appears in some pictures or the grid is present, this is because in my enthusiasm to take snapshots I sometimes forget to minimize the interface. Please note that I will only be posting ONE entry per week for this CJ as I have very little spare time.
        Special thanks to all those batters, lotters and modders who have given hardcore SC4 players a mind-blowing plethora of new features. Finally God bless grunge concrete and the grunge roads of paeng's!
      • By MushyMushy
        I present to you Kogyo Waste Services, a neat little waste-handling company. If you need some trash gone, you know who to call....
        KWS is a fully-batted building/lot combo that fills a 3x3 I-D lot. It can help break up the monotony with its characteristic yellow roof and parking lot filled with yellow trucks. The building is a partially accurate rendition of this small industrial building in Osaka:

        Maxisnite and Darknite are both supported, and the bat features TruNite lights. Download the appropriate version depending on whether you use SimFox's Day and Nite Mod (or an equivalent) or not.
        -Installation: Simply unzip the the downloaded .zip file into your plugins folder. The aren't any extraneous files in the folder (like images) so you don't have to worry about deleting anything.
        -Building Plop: The building is listed as MM_JPN_ID_3x3_KogyoWaste in the Building Plop window. This requires Buggi's Extra Cheats DLL. Keep in mind that plopped industrial buildings will not generate freight truck automata.
        All stats automatically generated by PIMX.

        Many thanks to the various people who have helped me along the way, and I hope you enjoy this!
      • By huzman
        Re-arranging the order of appearance.
        @Tarkus mentioned in the Folders Discussion " Also, consider the absurdity of wanting to make the SC4 community more like the SC2013 community (which is basically dead, and has been for a couple years now)."
        It's high time to reorder the appearance of the different forums: it should be 1st., SC4, 2nd., Skylines and 3rd., SC2013, me thinks.
        After all, SC4 is the main forum, all others, and I mean ALL, come second by along shot.
        Why, just convenience in surfing around. I for one, I never go to SC2013, and just once to Skylines. So it's a bit of a drag to scroll down, and down, and... just to get to where I want to go.
        In fact, from my experience, SC3000 should be promoted to second place, but that's my personal preferences. Anyway this rant should give an idea.
    • Recently Browsing   0 members

      No registered users viewing this page.


    Help Keep Simtropolis Online, Open & Free!


    Get the best of the best from the STEX!

    Expand your city with the best from the Simtropolis Echange. Make a donation and get one or all three discs today!

    Make a Donation, Get a Gift!

    We need to continue to raise enough money each month to pay for expenses which includes hardware, bandwidth, software licenses, support licenses and other necessary 3rd party costs.

    By way of a "Thank You" gift, we'd like to send you our STEX Collector's DVD. It's some of the best buildings, lots, maps and mods collected for you over the years. Check out the STEX Collections for more info.

    Each donation helps keep Simtropolis online, open and free!

    Thank you for reading and enjoy the site!

    More About STEX Collections