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Public Transit Addendum  

210 members have voted

  1. 1. Which expansions to rail based public transit would you like me to work on?

    • Single Rail Tracks/Stations
      64
    • Rendered Rail Tunnels
      46
    • High Speed Rail (new network type)
      73
    • Above Ground Subways/Metro (pretty much new network type)
      105


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1 hour ago, Igorp133 said:

@andreharv @Tim The Terrible, I hope you haven't abandoned work at future MOM updates and soon we will build MOM tracks with catenaries. Here is the photo for some inspiration. It is Bilbao metro aqueduct with catenaries support.

 

Etxebarrirako_metro.jpg

A related project is in progress with the Los Angeles light rail vehicles. Refer back to previous pages for further details.

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  • Original Poster
  • Hi guys.  I just released a couple updates for Network Extensions 2 and I will now be jumping back on MOM (uhhhhh).  First I'm going to tackle some issues regarding placing some of the modded stations (this has driven many people crazy lately).  From there we go onto single rail.  Did you guys use the dual oneway track on One-Way Train Tracks mod?  Not sure whether to implement them but I will find out soon.  Once that is done, it will be easier to implement caternaries for one and two track pieces.  Stay tuned and like always, thanks for your patience.

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    @andreharv - I definitely use the two track one way rail, though not a tremendous amount. For metro though, I feel like I'd use it a lot more to create a Local/Express system across four tracks (provided the stations can handle it). If you were to include a 4 track MOM variant, I could probably go without two track one-way, but it'd be ideal to have both, if at all possible.

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    3 hours ago, andreharv said:

    Hi guys.  I just released a couple updates for Network Extensions 2 and I will now be jumping back on MOM (uhhhhh).  First I'm going to tackle some issues regarding placing some of the modded stations (this has driven many people crazy lately).  From there we go onto single rail.  Did you guys use the dual oneway track on One-Way Train Tracks mod?  Not sure whether to implement them but I will find out soon.  Once that is done, it will be easier to implement caternaries for one and two track pieces.  Stay tuned and like always, thanks for your patience.

    Yes, I definitely use the two-track one way rails, although the applications are a bit niche. I've had a few station setups that used them to ease transfers.

    2 hours ago, bsquiklehausen said:

    @andreharv - I definitely use the two track one way rail, though not a tremendous amount. For metro though, I feel like I'd use it a lot more to create a Local/Express system across four tracks (provided the stations can handle it). If you were to include a 4 track MOM variant, I could probably go without two track one-way, but it'd be ideal to have both, if at all possible.

    I don't think a four-track two-way could work very well. Mostly because intersections would quickly get ugly as hell, since all tracks that are capable of connecting will connect, without letting the player choose.

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    On 22/02/2017 at 6:04 AM, andreharv said:

    Hi guys.  I just released a couple updates for Network Extensions 2 and I will now be jumping back on MOM (uhhhhh).  First I'm going to tackle some issues regarding placing some of the modded stations (this has driven many people crazy lately).  From there we go onto single rail.  Did you guys use the dual oneway track on One-Way Train Tracks mod?  Not sure whether to implement them but I will find out soon.  Once that is done, it will be easier to implement caternaries for one and two track pieces.  Stay tuned and like always, thanks for your patience.

    Would be useful in through transit station concepts. Wouldn't serve any purpose in end stations since both tracks can be used. Other than that, I don't personally use one way tracks 

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    Even then, the same can be accomplished by two one-track one-ways and a non-station two-track two-way in between. In addition, this only takes up three tiles.

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    I think 4 track MOM is a good idea. It worked in CiM2, and would make express lines much easier. Although this may be niche, is there any chance of a 3-track steel elevated track, with the center bidirectional? With APT you can set up peak period expresses.

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    hey @andreharv and @BloodyPenguin

    I've been looking into the feasibility of having a train station track with a centre platform and I think it actually works in game. 
    I played around with the m.lanetypes within Train Station Track. you can edit the m.lanes to change there position. below is the exact reverse of what is in game. the 2 m.vehicleType = pedestrain lanes that make up the platform have values of 2 and -2 (instead of 6 and -6) and the 2 m.vehicleType = train lanes have values of 6 and -6 (instead of 2 and -2). you can see how wide apart the trains split to observe the platforms in between (ignore the vanilla track texture/mesh)

    I haven't changes the m.lanes' widths so they're all still 4m wide which means the width of the overall netpath is still the same (16m) it just LOOKS wider because the trains show the outermost lanes more than cims usually do standing on the outside.
    58b6747c280ff_-2and-6.thumb.jpg.1d8ea0bb9c9867323a86f1a01d7c16a5.jpg

     

    Below I edited the values to make the netpath's width virtually narrower by changing the m.vehicleType = Pedestrian lanes to -1 and 1. and the m.vehicleType = train Lanes to -5 and 5. that resulted in this slightly less gap:

    58b67476e66ed_-1and-5.thumb.jpg.68e80391ca52d3664099dba1553d5d37.jpg

    you can also see that the props also move correctly with the lanes:

    props.thumb.jpg.d11683da0bb5de89b56571476e1c94e0.jpg

     

    the things you'd have to change would be the overhead wire's position, the mesh for the catenary poles (make it wider) and change the mesh of the netpath. I don't think you'd have to change the node texture or anything.. BloodyPenguin might this be a good addition to ETST? we could finally have train stations that have middle platforms and don't need to have a weird connection the two separate netpaths like would happen if we made the same station using the one way station tracks.

     

    You can see the cims still use the stations with the edited values:
    58b678c9e0cc7_Screenshot8.thumb.png.e64ea88fb97b22024fbfd2dc62a0f4ce.png

    the cims are on the centre platform - you can see from my old brick station mesh where the vanilla platforms usually are.

    and trains still cross over the tracks correctly:

    58b67abdc402c_Screenshot9.thumb.png.b387f4717a26e826e52c59591cab14fc.png

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    50 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    hey @andreharv and @BloodyPenguin

    I've been looking into the feasibility of having a train station track with a centre platform and I think it actually works in game. 
    I played around with the m.lanetypes within Train Station Track. you can edit the m.lanes to change there position. below is the exact reverse of what is in game. the 2 m.vehicleType = pedestrain lanes that make up the platform have values of 2 and -2 (instead of 6 and -6) and the 2 m.vehicleType = train lanes have values of 6 and -6 (instead of 2 and -2). you can see how wide apart the trains split to observe the platforms in between (ignore the vanilla track texture/mesh)

    I haven't changes the m.lanes' widths so they're all still 4m wide which means the width of the overall netpath is still the same (16m) it just LOOKS wider because the trains show the outermost lanes more than cims usually do standing on the outside.
    Below I edited the values to make the netpath's width virtually narrower by changing the m.vehicleType = Pedestrian lanes to -1 and 1. and the m.vehicleType = train Lanes to -5 and 5. that resulted in this slightly less gap:

    you can also see that the props also move correctly with the lanes:

    the things you'd have to change would be the overhead wire's position, the mesh for the catenary poles (make it wider) and change the mesh of the netpath. I don't think you'd have to change the node texture or anything.. BloodyPenguin might this be a good addition to ETST? we could finally have train stations that have middle platforms and don't need to have a weird connection the two separate netpaths like would happen if we made the same station using the one way station tracks.

    You can see the cims still use the stations with the edited values:
    the cims are on the centre platform - you can see from my old brick station mesh where the vanilla platforms usually are.

    and trains still cross over the tracks correctly:

    Is this better than two one-way station tracks?

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    27 minutes ago, boformer said:

    Is this better than two one-way station tracks?

    it would mean connecting the station to the normal train network would mean you could connect straight to normal train tracks, not fluffing around with the one-way tracks. It would also remove the hassle of setting the spawn points of the two separate one-way station tracks, it would also mean less segments created overall. I think it would be simpler than using the two one-way station tracks

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    1 hour ago, Bad Peanut said:

    it would mean connecting the station to the normal train network would mean you could connect straight to normal train tracks, not fluffing around with the one-way tracks. It would also remove the hassle of setting the spawn points of the two separate one-way station tracks, it would also mean less segments created overall. I think it would be simpler than using the two one-way station tracks

    It would also remove the problem of confused AI on one way tracks. Currently game AI doesn't behave properly on one way tracks, it usually enters the platform when there's already another train, causing the blockades on the network. (assuming there's a mid segment between station track and one way). In other case, trains still enter one lane (two way) tracks despite the presence of other trains. 

    Idea: Would be possible to create a mode which allows to set the width of tracks, instead of setting them fixed ? People would have more flexibility if it's the case, we could create stations independently from fixed width, we could set the width according to the platform model instead. 

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    1 hour ago, R3V0 said:

    Idea: Would be possible to create a mode which allows to set the width of tracks, instead of setting them fixed ? People would have more flexibility if it's the case, we could create stations independently from fixed width, we could set the width according to the platform model instead. 

    No. The network system of the game uses static prefabs.

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    I see there is one public transportation type missing (not in poll), and which I want to have in my cities - trolleybuses.

    IMO, it can be done modifying tram network, removing the tracks. But there comes the problem - trams ride in dedicated lane only, while trolleybuses can change lanes freely if and until trolley poles are connected to overhead wires.

    Here derives another problem for lane changing - if road models and trolleybus model are going to be static, there won't be permanent and fluent connection of trolley poles -> wires. So these should be animated and rotate according to movement of the vehicle.

     

    I would like to add, that there is a huge demand for this system from Russian community. From time to time I check CSL VKontakte page. A lot of people were a little disappointed that Mass Transit DLC is not going to feature trolleybuses.

    Trolleybuses can be found widely in the world, but are most popular in Eastern Europe  and Russia.

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    27 minutes ago, pauliaxz said:

    I see there is one public transportation type missing (not in poll), and which I want to have in my cities - trolleybuses.

    IMO, it can be done modifying tram network, removing the tracks. But there comes the problem - trams ride in dedicated lane only, while trolleybuses can change lanes freely if and until trolley poles are connected to overhead wires.

    Here derives another problem for lane changing - if road models and trolleybus model are going to be static, there won't be permanent and fluent connection of trolley poles -> wires. So these should be animated and rotate according to movement of the vehicle.

     

    I would like to add, that there is a huge demand for this system from Russian community. From time to time I check CSL VKontakte page. A lot of people were a little disappointed that Mass Transit DLC is not going to feature trolleybuses.

    Trolleybuses can be found widely in the world, but are most popular in Eastern Europe  and Russia.

    The solution could be create tram avenues which tram lines are going to be on the bus lanes. Not a good solution but better than nothing i guess. 

    They are also popular here in switzerland basically every city runs on trolleys. 

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    Yes, it still better than nothing, but far from perfect. It will only look OK when trolleybus will ride at idle speed and at the same lane.

    But once it turns to the stop, or changes the lane it will look bad because trolley poles would be static. It would be a hard work for our modders to make them dynamic (actually rotating left and right would be enough) I made an example of a situation when trolleybus is driving on 3 lane street or on 2 lane street with bus (trolley) stop. (Both buses and trolleys should use same stops).

     

    trolley network.png

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    7 hours ago, boformer said:

    Is this better than two one-way station tracks?

    Very much yes. Currently two One Way Station Track must be placed more than 8m apart to avoid the 'Path Not Found' error. Santa Barbara Station has this problem at the moment. I could fix it but making the island platform 8m wide would not make it true to the original, and 8m is quite wide for an island platform in most cases.

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  • Original Poster
  • I can easily make an island platform station track.  The problem is that I will be forced to choose the distance between the tracks and someone somewhere won't like what I come up with.  So let's discuss.  What would you guys like?

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    7 minutes ago, andreharv said:

    I can easily make an island platform station track.  The problem is that I will be forced to choose the distance between the tracks and someone somewhere won't like what I come up with.  So let's discuss.  What would you guys like?

    The minimal distance is 8m, so i would go with factors of 3;

    9m - 12m

    and less used 15m would be ok. 

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  • Original Poster
  • @R3V0 Multiple versions of platform width sounds like a novel idea.

    @boformer and @Tim The Terrible I would tend to agree with boformer.  The Santa Barbara station center platform is characteristically narrow.  If I developed a platform station this narrow, it would be merely for the sake of making this one station.  Most stations I have seen look like they have platforms that are at least 6m wide.  This looks like it is barely 2.  Do people use it IRL?

     Image result for santa barbara station

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    5 hours ago, andreharv said:

    @R3V0 Multiple versions of platform width sounds like a novel idea.

    @boformer and @Tim The Terrible I would tend to agree with boformer.  The Santa Barbara station center platform is characteristically narrow.  If I developed a platform station this narrow, it would be merely for the sake of making this one station.  Most stations I have seen look like they have platforms that are at least 6m wide.  This looks like it is barely 2.  Do people use it IRL?

     Image result for santa barbara station

    I think 6 is great.  At most 8. Remember you should try and keep within the 16m width of the original track. The first picture i used shows an 8m platform (the trains widest apart) the rest of the images show a 6m platform. I think that it should actually be 8m platform because you have to remember that modelling on a 6m platform does not allow that much space for escalators/stairs. If i modeled an up and down escalator that would take up a good 2/2.5m space in the middle which would leave another 2 or so for cims to get around them on either side. Visually i think the 6m platform looks good but practically i think it shpuld be 8. It's the exact opposite of the normal station track. It maintains the same width. And it'll give more room for placing pedestrian paths to access the station.

    In a nut shell: minimum 6m maximum 8m. I'd prefer 8m

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    8m (or above) is a pretty common platform width. But Anything above 8m can be done with two separate single Station Tracks. That's why I think 4m or 6m is nice for an island platform prefab. Of course I know Santa Barbara is insanely narrow, but I'd be happy to widen it to 4 or even 6m, but 8 is too much.

    And yes, most platforms nowadays are a lot wider, but they didn't used to be. A lot, if not all stations, have sacrificed tracks to make the platforms wider for the amount of commuters we have in modern day. A 4 or 6m Island Platform prefab would be ideal to make these older, characteristic station. Those 11-13m German station can once again be done with two separate station tracks without getting the pathfinding issue.

    5 hours ago, andreharv said:

    This looks like it is barely 2.  Do people use it IRL?

    Yes, if you want to catch the southbound train.

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    2 hours ago, Tim The Terrible said:

    8m (or above) is a pretty common platform width. But Anything above 8m can be done with two separate single Station Tracks. That's why I think 4m or 6m is nice for an island platform prefab. Of course I know Santa Barbara is insanely narrow, but I'd be happy to widen it to 4 or even 6m, but 8 is too much.

    And yes, most platforms nowadays are a lot wider, but they didn't used to be. A lot, if not all stations, have sacrificed tracks to make the platforms wider for the amount of commuters we have in modern day. A 4 or 6m Island Platform prefab would be ideal to make these older, characteristic station. Those 11-13m German station can once again be done with two separate station tracks without getting the pathfinding issue.

    Yes, if you want to catch the southbound train.

    if you make it wider than 8m then you are making the overall prefab's width larger than the vanilla one - for continuity this shouldn't happen. Scaling in game has to remain the same

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    I have a question about those fancy tracks with got on MoM tracks. Didn't someone convert them so normal rails also use them? Or did I dream that, because I cannot find it.

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  • Original Poster
  • Sad to say it was just a dream; albeit a good dream.  However, @Tim The Terrible and I have been flirting with the idea of a Rail Overhaul Mod which will use all new models and textures...so dream come true?  It will be a while out though.

    @Tim The Terrible Re: Southbound traffic, Touche.  Didn't see the station from that angle.  

    @BadPeanut: From a development standpoint, width doesn't really matter (think of how tram widths are variable based on the road.  However, each width would have to have a flag associated with it so I would rather not make a ton of them or it will just be another thing that breaks if CO starts making new tram roads or something. 

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