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Australian baseballer killed in Oklahoma drive-by shooting.

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Melbourne baseballer shot dead by three teens in an apparent random drive-by shooting.

Having been involved with the baseball community here and retaining a few ties, this has shocked many of us here with his passing.

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Well on behalf of the US I hope those "kids" are tried as adults and never see the light of day again. There is no reason what so ever to do what they did.

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  • Realistically I would like to see them get the death penalty (being a supporter of it in the case of murder), but I believe execution of minors is unconstitutional.

    Yet they clearly show you can't be too young to murder, and a 15 year old clearly knows the difference between right and wrong.

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    The younger ones will be sent to juvie.  When they age out of there they will probably be released, complete with a fine education in the criminal arts.

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    A very sad loss of life. It makes you wonder what kind of upbringing these people have. They must be influenced in some way. Quite often, violent video games are to blame, which can affect and change people's way of thinking.

     

    The Telegraph says the 16yr old teen (who pulled the trigger) just "wanted to kill someone", and could indeed face the death penalty.

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  • Original Poster
  • A very sad loss of life. It makes you wonder what kind of upbringing these people have. They must be influenced in some way. Quite often, violent video games are to blame, which can affect and change people's way of thinking.

    The Telegraph says the 16yr old teen (who pulled the trigger) just "wanted to kill someone", and could indeed face the death penalty.

    Not true. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons

    The part that sickens me the most is that there was apparently no motive. There was no grudge at all, he just happened to be the poor guy that was decided to be their target in this very very silly game.

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    There was a time in this poor land when you could be hung if you were over 11.  Times have changed.  Why age should have anything to do with the punishment for murder is beyond me.  This kid should get an adult sentence.

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    In my opinion, that law doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What's the theory behind it?

    Murder is murder. It was deliberate, and the teens knew perfectly well what they intended to do. What more evidence is needed than a confession? Being in control of their actions is the main thing here. Although they may not fully understand the implications, most young adults can differentiate between right and wrong. So I think age shouldn't be the determining factor for punishment. Other things should be considered, depending on each case.

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    What more evidence is needed than a confession?

     

    There is a well known phenomenon of false confessions.  Depending on the severity of the crime, and possibly other factors too, admission of guilt is not sufficient evidence to convict.

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  • Original Poster
  • In my opinion, that law doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What's the theory behind it?

    Murder is murder. It was deliberate, and the teens knew perfectly well what they intended to do. What more evidence is needed than a confession? Being in control of their actions is the main thing here. Although they may not fully understand the implications, most young adults can differentiate between right and wrong. So I think age shouldn't be the determining factor for punishment. Other things should be considered, depending on each case.

     

    There was a time in this poor land when you could be hung if you were over 11.  Times have changed.  Why age should have anything to do with the punishment for murder is beyond me.  This kid should get an adult sentence.

    Despite the age, the effects of the crime are still the same even if it were an adult. Besides unless a person suffers from mental retardation (but that's an entirely different story), they would know the different between right and wrong.

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    Surprising that this occurred in a good neighbourhood, not an estate or anything. No link to gangs or drugs either. Seems this is indeed random.

     

    I used to play softball until I was ten when I moved to Wollongong. However it hardly matters what Mr Lane did or was like, as this wasn't a targeted affair, but a random attack.

     

    Seems illogical to shoot at random? I suppose they've been playing that grand theft auto game too much lol

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    Times have changed (But not in Australia or the US).

    Fixed.

     

     

    I'm not sure what you mean by that - our (Australia's) last execution was Ronald Ryan in 1967, and it's no longer a legal punishment now. The last death sentence was in 1984, but all death sentences after Ronald Ryan's were commuted to life imprisonment.

     

    If you mean shootings, we enacted very strict gun laws after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, and murders with a firearm have fallen to a level where they're national news (there's if you want to debate gun laws).

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    Something I said was obviously taken out of context.  However speaking of fixed, that is what should happen to these boys.  The shooter has sociopathic tendencies.  How about popular songs (from a while back) "I shot a man in xxxx, just to watch him die".  Stuff like this is fairly common in modern lyrics.

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  • Original Poster
  • Something I said was obviously taken out of context. However speaking of fixed, that is what should happen to these boys. The shooter has sociopathic tendencies. How about popular songs (from a while back) "I shot a man in xxxx, just to watch him die". Stuff like this is fairly common in modern lyrics.

    I enjoy violent video games, horror films with gore and graphic violence etc. Yet I know the difference and will never kill a person. Violent media does not cause one to do this.

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    Agreed.  This kind of result is usually the product of poor or no parenting.  This is especially difficult when the parents had no parents to speak of.  Some children have no better ethical basis for living than the average predator in the wild.

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  • Original Poster
  • True. I listen to Bach and abhor video gaming, but if I was given authority I'd shoot or burn half the human population lol.

    Hahah take it easy there Mark...

     

    Agreed.  This kind of result is usually the product of poor or no parenting.  This is especially difficult when the parents had no parents to speak of.  Some children have no better ethical basis for living than the average predator in the wild.

    I believe they are lower than predators. Most predators only kill for food or if their victim is deemed to be a threat to them, neither of which was the case here.

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    I read this this morning and felt really sad, really sad ... my question was Why?  They killed him because they were bored and he just happened to be passing by.  My heart goes out to his family in Australia...to get that message...horrible.   Those "minors" deserve to die too.

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    I think there is too much fun these days. People are too obsessed with entertaining themselves and getting 'highs'. If people just shut up complaining and worked hard and did the right thing and were honest and decent and respectable then nobody would have anything to complain about and wouldn't decide to do this sort of thing. I think it's about high time we banned all entertainment and made having fun a crime. Well if apathy is criminal then let having fun be criminal too. Makes pseudo-sense innit.

     

    I don't even know if they actually did it from boredom. Some people like 'adventure' even if their lives aren't 'boring'. But if they truly were bored out of their mind... Why didn't they just get drunk and get into some fights like regular teenagers usually do? Why jump straight to absolute carefree Bartism? I do however note they have former criminal convictions. Hmm.

     

    I daresay once somebody has been convicted of a crime they should be shot. That ought to do the trick, what.

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  • Original Poster
  • I think there is too much fun these days. People are too obsessed with entertaining themselves and getting 'highs'. If people just shut up complaining and worked hard and did the right thing and were honest and decent and respectable then nobody would have anything to complain about and wouldn't decide to do this sort of thing. I think it's about high time we banned all entertainment and made having fun a crime. Well if apathy is criminal then let having fun be criminal too. Makes pseudo-sense innit.

     

    I don't even know if they actually did it from boredom. Some people like 'adventure' even if their lives aren't 'boring'. But if they truly were bored out of their mind... Why didn't they just get drunk and get into some fights like regular teenagers usually do? Why jump straight to absolute carefree Bartism? I do however note they have former criminal convictions. Hmm.

    I agree. One needs to find a pleasurable job or a decent hobby. I enjoy winding down the week at the pub in good company or perhaps a lazy coffee date with friends, but ultimately, life isn't just a hedonistic ride, you need to balance work, rest and play.

     

    I daresay once somebody has been convicted of a crime they should be shot. That ought to do the trick, what.

    But how far does one take this thought? Sure, most people (if not against the death penalty) would agree that it should be reserved for first-degree murder, but what about other serious felonies? Does rape or serious assault warrant execution? How about property damage such as arson or even illicit substance smuggling/dealing?

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    Violent media may not directly influence this sort of behaviour. But when mixed with a troubled (or lack of) upbringing, it can be a dangerous mix.

    I also think it depends on the types of people they befriend and socialise with. Most teens tend to keep with a core group of friends. Amongst other people, their manners and behaviour can occasionally be influenced negatively. This is because they like to impress their friends, and tag along. If one kid has an idea, the others may feel pressured to go along with it, just to remain pals and "stay cool".

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    I have just read it in the newspaper and I am angry. I am tempted to start a new topic about just how stupid united statesian gun laws are, especially with that toddler that shot himself last week, but I won't, because these teenagers are old enough to know that shooting people is not allowed, even in the US. Violent games however are not to be blamed I think, as putting the blame on the game industry is honestly only trying to camouflage the mistakes that the parents of these little asses (who should be sent to Iran for some little Shariah) made.

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  • Original Poster
  • I have just read it in the newspaper and I am angry. I am tempted to start a new topic about just how stupid united statesian gun laws are, especially with that toddler that shot himself last week, but I won't, because these teenagers are old enough to know that shooting people is not allowed, even in the US. Violent games however are not to be blamed I think, as putting the blame on the game industry is honestly only trying to camouflage the mistakes that the parents of these little asses (who should be sent to Iran for some little Shariah) made.

    We have the Second Amendment Thread for that.

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    Two of them have been charged with murder.  Adult sentences should be the order of the day.  Stupidity is its own reward.

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