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If there were a "NAM for 2013" mod package, but EA keeps the DRM, will you still buy SimCity 2013?

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Well, a little silly discussion here, but what if the NAM Team released the NAM for SimCity 2013, but EA still keeps the DRM in, will you still buy it? Well, for me, I'd take the classic SimCity 4 version since probably the NAM Team will prioritize updates on the SC4 version than the SC2013 version. And also, even though there is a NAM for SC2013, I still won't buy SC2013 because of course, thereis already a NAM for SC4 and don't really need fancy 3D graphics. And also, the DRM could still be in place at the time the mod is released so no offline play. So, my suggestion is to just stick with SC4's NAM and move on...

-Geometry

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For there to be a NAM for SimCity 5 there would first need to be larger maps.  A cloverleaf interchange would use up half of the available space in the city tile. 

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The NAM team has no plans to make any mods for SC13.

 

Even if there were plans, it would be illegal to modify the game in such a way. Modding is currently banned for SC13. That's why most of the downloads you see for the game are simply new skins or new textures of existing content. We are not allowed to add new or content or mods to the game.

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Pardon my $%&^! post, but... what's a "NAM"?

NAM = Network Addon Mod

Basically a huge transportation upgrade for SimCity 4. It also contains numerous bug fixes and improvements, including fixing the broken traffic simulator.

 

Was there NAM for sc4 vanilla? I believe we need better traffic control player-side to be able to create a NAM.

No there wasn't. The NAM and modern SC4 custom content was only made possible from the release of the Rush Hour expansion (aka the Deluxe Edition).

With the modding scene, there are similarities between the new SimCity, and SC4. Both games initially had a limited support for modding. For example, SC4 vanilla could only support re-lots of Maxis buildings. Very few gameplay mods were possible at all, and only minor things could be altered. The Rush Hour expansion was released about a year after vanilla, along with the BAT and other modding tools. Developing them is one thing. But for mods like the NAM to even be possible, it will take some action from Maxis -- to set a foundation for potential modding. If nothing is done, nothing will happen.

To answer the question, before I'd consider buying, it would take some significant improvements to be made first. As bjl707 said, most notably with the map sizes. I could tolerate DRM if the pros outweighed the cons. However, in the game's current state of play, a NAM-style mod wouldn't even work.

For a true NAM experience, I'd much rather save the stress, and stick to good old SimCity 4.

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It wasn't until 2005 when some good mods were finally developed (I was stunned at how amazing they looked at the time, but some of them haven't aged all that well), about two and a half years after SimCity 4 was released. Sadly, with the way things are looking now, I doubt the servers would still be running two and a half years from March of this year.

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It wasn't until 2005 when some good mods were finally developed (I was stunned at how amazing they looked at the time, but some of them haven't aged all that well), about two and a half years after SimCity 4 was released. Sadly, with the way things are looking now, I doubt the servers would still be running two and a half years from March of this year.

 

I used to lurk on this site A LOT during 2004 and 2005. The creations the Modd Squad (now the NAM Team) were making were literally jaw dropping. While most projects were never finished, some made their way into the game via the first NAM releases.

 

EA/Maxis needs to give us the green light before we can mod the game. Right now any new content you want to get is only available via DLC (money maker for them).

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Simcity (classic) was released in: 1989

Version 2.0 was released in: 1990 (?)

 

Simcity 2000 was released in: 1993

SCURK was released in 1994

 

Simcity 3000 was released in: 1999

BAT was released a few months later.

 

Simcity 4 was released in: 2003

BAT was released a few month later with the Rush Hour expantion.

 

So, history tells us that modding tools are typically released a few months to a year after release of the game, usually included in another version of the game or as part of an expantion.

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I guess the main issue is that a lot of transportation mods simply wouldn't work in SC2013 because of map size limitations. Were SC2013 a more open game, I would argue that it has greater transportation modding potential because of the agent-based traffic system. In SC4, things like turning lanes are mostly cosmetic additions, with perhaps a capacity increase to represent their effects on traffic flow. In this game, every new road and intersection type would allow players to profoundly affect the gameplay by changing the way traffic moves. It becomes more than simply adding as much capacity as possible.

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I think all you'd need is a way to make one-way roads. That combined with the raising and lowering tools in update 7 would make a NAM-like package pretty redundant since you'd probably be able to draw any kind of network or interchange you wanted at that point.

 

Agreed. I can see some value in one-way roads, but I think avenues already kind of act like one-way roads (you cannot make lefts on them, unless you're at an intersection). 

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I've been making overpasses and similar ways for avenues to cross and I'd REALLY like one way roads to direct people off the avenue without creating a crossing, so I can keep the traffic flow going at intersections. 

 

But SC2013 doesn't really need NAM, especially not after patch 7. It needs lots more bug-fixes, larger maps, terraform and modding tools and for some people: offline mode. But the road tool is so powerful in this game, that the need for third party developed transportation options isn't as nessecary as in SC4.

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  • Original Poster
  • Well, JackeyHal (a.k.a. Haljackey :P) said that his highways (Built by the RHW, which is a NAM mod) built in SC4 are being studied by Maxis and might include buildable highways by probably Update 8 or 9. Let's hope it's true!

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    I've been making overpasses and similar ways for avenues to cross and I'd REALLY like one way roads to direct people off the avenue without creating a crossing, so I can keep the traffic flow going at intersections. 

     

    But SC2013 doesn't really need NAM, especially not after patch 7. It needs lots more bug-fixes, larger maps, terraform and modding tools and for some people: offline mode. But the road tool is so powerful in this game, that the need for third party developed transportation options isn't as nessecary as in SC4.

     

    I wouldn't say SC13 doesn't need a NAM of it's own, but I would say that there are much higher priorities right now.

     

    For me, city size is the biggest issue I have with the game. It's really hindering my enjoyment as I'm just packing as much crap as I can into a tiny square.

    Why get DLC if there's no room to put it? Once you put roads and services in you've already used up about half the room.

     

    Well, JackeyHal (a.k.a. Haljackey :P) said that his highways (Built by the RHW, which is a NAM mod) built in SC4 are being studied by Maxis and might include buildable highways by probably Update 8 or 9. Let's hope it's true!

     

    Rumor has it 9 or 10. I can neither confirm or deny these statements however.

     

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    If there were a "NAM for 2013" mod package, but EA keeps the DRM, will you still buy SimCity 2013?

     

    No.  Absolutely not.  SC4 is the only game I will play from EA.  I have a solid boycott going on here and my boycotts last forever.  No matter what they do.  Ever since they blew Mass Effect 2's release, I swore I would never purchase another thing from EA and to that I stick.  Their business practices are the type of business practices criminals use.  Anyone who releases and incomplete product and then charges for what they call "extras" or "DLC" is a criminal in my opinion.  You know a full copy of the Sims 3 can run you about $500.00?  How is that not criminal?  If they put all the expansions together before the release of the game and then tried to market it to you for $500, would you buy it?  I will answer this for you, hell no you wouldn't(please pardon my rhetoric).  This is a perfect example of EA robbing blind it's own customers, they have no respect for you or money, their ethics and morals are flawed as far as corporations are concerned, they do not care about the quality of their games unless their bottom line is under attack.  You cannot define a person with morals, that would be too difficult, but you can define someone without morals, that definition goes something like this, a person without morals ONLY cares about the consequences of their actions, and that is exactly what we see from EA.

     

    No matter what they do to their games to make them better or how good they are upon their release, or how popular a game they make becomes or how badly I want to play it, I will never own another game from EA, so it is written so it shall be done and forever more.  An example, I so badly want to buy the new Battle front when it comes out, I played the first one nearly a decade ago on the original Xbox and it was so fun I actually purchased time for Xbox live and got a subscription to cable to play online, that was then though and this is now, no matter how badly I want this game, I just cannot have it.  That is just how it is with me, no shades of gray, no going back on my word.  I will not stoop down to their level by sacrificing my integrity for a game.  This being the way I am, I actually see everyone who buys EA products today as being just as guilty as EA is, I won't hold it against you if you do, but in reality, as long as people buy their crap they are going to keep coming with it, and that is on the consumers shoulders.

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    I've been making overpasses and similar ways for avenues to cross and I'd REALLY like one way roads to direct people off the avenue without creating a crossing, so I can keep the traffic flow going at intersections. 

     

    But SC2013 doesn't really need NAM, especially not after patch 7. It needs lots more bug-fixes, larger maps, terraform and modding tools and for some people: offline mode. But the road tool is so powerful in this game, that the need for third party developed transportation options isn't as nessecary as in SC4.

     

    I wouldn't say SC13 doesn't need a NAM of it's own, but I would say that there are much higher priorities right now.

     

    For me, city size is the biggest issue I have with the game. It's really hindering my enjoyment as I'm just packing as much crap as I can into a tiny square.

    Why get DLC if there's no room to put it? Once you put roads and services in you've already used up about half the room.

     

     

    Indeed. SC4 was mostly in need of extra flexibility with transportation. SC2013 is mostly in need of extra space, terraforming, region options and LOT'S of bug fixes. So if modders suddenly got the tools, maybe you'd get some sort of series of region-edit mods, but I don't think there's a specific theme, such as roads that needs to be adressed with mods, that's lacking in SC2013. SC2013's major problems are of a technical nature and things not being released to the public yet. Content wise, I'd say: give me patch 7, one-way streets and a subway building and I've got all the tools I need.

     

    Of course NAM was theoretically both a content pack AND an AI patch fix. So if Maxis decided to stop patching SC2013, we'd need a NAM-like project to fix the bugs there currently are.

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    According to this Article http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/08/simcity-is-built-to-be-moddable-say-maxis/ Simcity 5 was "built to be moddable" so once they release an expansion with a mod package I think that Simcity 5 will really start to shine...of course they really need to open up the city tiles or make the tiles literally right next to each other like simcity 4.

     

    Once Simcity 5 has entire regions to build on, terraforming, and is open to modding for unique ploppables.... I think it will eclipse simcity 4 completely. For now though I am playing both...even though Simcity 5 gameplay and fun factor are leaps and bounds ahead of simcity 4...building on the entire continental US is just to awesome :)

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    I wouldn't say SC13 doesn't need a NAM of it's own, but I would say that there are much higher priorities right now.

     

    True! However, with the release of updates 6 and 7, I think this game has taken big steps forward.

     

    For me, city size is the biggest issue I have with the game. It's really hindering my enjoyment as I'm just packing as much crap as I can into a tiny square. Why get DLC if there's no room to put it? Once you put roads and services in you've already used up about half the room.

     

    Depending on the tile size, services can take up a lot of space. If you're on a flat, open tile, the impact isn't felt as much. However, if you're playing in the Granite Lake region, you can really feel the squeeze after your services (police, fire, health, garbage, water, sewage) are plopped. That region is awesome, but with the mountains, you already have limited space. I can see the concern here, and you're expressing it in a constructive way. Kudos to you.

     

    I think Maxis has a difficult challenge ahead of them with the tile size. This game was designed to be played with others, and I appreciate that aspect of the game. As part of the SimNation Guild, I have the pleasure of building active regions with other mayors who enjoy this new social element.

     

    I'm empathetic with those devoted to SimCity 4, but this isn't SimCity 4. Building a city that serves all of your needs is a strategy of the past - it's the strategy of a different game entirely. I think the tough part of increasing tile size is giving people some more space, while balancing the need for other cities. This game was designed to be reliant on other cities so keeping that in is being true to the vision (imo). This is why I think 4x the size of what the game has now, 3x, maybe even 2x is too much for me. I think a slight increase is needed, but not by much. That is my opinion, however.

     

    Rumor has it 9 or 10. I can neither confirm or deny these statements however.

     

    I wouldn't be surprised. I only see hints here and there, but I understand the roadmap is very robust, and very long (lots of updates are going to come). 

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    I'm empathetic with those devoted to SimCity 4, but this isn't SimCity 4. Building a city that serves all of your needs is a strategy of the past - it's the strategy of a different game entirely.

     

     

    Eh? This may not be SimCity 4 but this is still SimCity. The reason we can't build a city 'that serves all of your needs' is because the game is half-done, even months after release. It has nothing to do with a 'strategy of the past'.

     

    Don't get me wrong, SC4 and SC13 are quite different but not that different. It's the same franchise and the needs and wants of your city are comparable to real-world cities. If SC13 can't deliver on this then you are missing an essential part of the game.

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    Eh? This may not be SimCity 4 but this is still SimCity. The reason we can't build a city 'that serves all of your needs' is because the game is half-done, even months after release. It has nothing to do with a 'strategy of the past'.

     

    Agreed, it is still SimCity. My point is, I've seen people want bigger cities, so they no longer have to rely on others to help them. In other words, people want bigger cities so that regional play is no longer necessary and isn't even thought of. This is not the vision of this game. However, I see your point in that once you place your services, you have limited room. It's a valid point. :)

     

    We will agree to disagree on whether or not it is a finished product. I believe what was released was a base product, with a robust and long-term plan to release updates. This is approach is text-book Agile, though no one at Maxis has come out and said they are using the Agile style of software development. I think it's smart, and as a company, you don't waste time developing features users may not find useful, but you put the product out and let others provide feedback to help steer where things go.

     

    Don't get me wrong, SC4 and SC13 are quite different but not that different. It's the same franchise and the needs and wants of your city are comparable to real-world cities. If SC13 can't deliver on this then you are missing an essential part of the game.

     

    Exactly. This is why I think a slight increase in tile size would be helpful, but I don't think it needs to be doubled, tripled, or quadrupled. While it should resemble needs an actual city has, at the end of the day, it is still a game. I think for now, regional play is a big focus. If I don't have room in this city I'm in, perhaps I can buy from another city. That's a different strategy than how I saw SimCity 4 played. Perhaps others played SC4 using a regional strategy. I know with this new SimCity, that's the angle it should be played it - or at least that's my understanding. This concept is not too far fetched, as I think (and I may be wrong), some AZ cities purchase and transport water from CA.

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    Once Simcity 5 has entire regions to build on, terraforming, and is open to modding for unique ploppables.... I think it will eclipse simcity 4 completely. For now though I am playing both...even though Simcity 5 gameplay and fun factor are leaps and bounds ahead of simcity 4...building on the entire continental US is just to awesome :)

     

    My thoughts word for word. 

     

    I think for now, regional play is a big focus. If I don't have room in this city I'm in, perhaps I can buy from another city. That's a different strategy than how I saw SimCity 4 played. Perhaps others played SC4 using a regional strategy. I know with this new SimCity, that's the angle it should be played it - or at least that's my understanding. This concept is not too far fetched, as I think (and I may be wrong), some AZ cities purchase and transport water from CA.

    Eh? This may not be SimCity 4 but this is still SimCity. The reason we can't build a city 'that serves all of your needs' is because the game is half-done, even months after release. It has nothing to do with a 'strategy of the past'.

     

     

    I think the whole interdependant cities was a goal the developpers have worked towards. Though with leaderboards and such, splitting up services will always be the theoratical 'best' way to play if you want to min-max. (Of course that means Maxis will have to get to work on regional commuting for the next patch asap!) I'd like to get the urban sprawl feeling back in Simcity some day though. This idea that you don't have to build upwards but just can keep expanding and expanding ever outwards, not having to worry about running out of space. Especially because this game allows us such BEAUTIFUL curved roads that are just begging to inefficiently full up your region. I wouldn't care if that was achieved through bigger maps or adjecent city tiles though.

     

    But regional stuff was also important in SC4. I can't be the only one who heavily abused the airpolution/ trash across the border trick. 

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    OK, I have a few words to mention regarding the NAM and SimCity 2013:

    • First of all, the entire team has no interest in making a NAM for SimCity 2013. It's not our focus and most of all: we don't even have the game itself! Haljackey is the only NAM Team member who has bought SimCity 2013; the rest doesn't own the game or was disappointed after playing the Beta (like me). For me, the beta convinced me even more to let this game stand there on the shelves...
    • Second, the game's architecture is completely different compared to SimCity 4. This means that all our modding knowledge of SimCity 4 is useless here.
    • Third, if we don't have compatible modeling tools to insert our own models, we can't do our jobs. Considering this game is full 3D based, we need models for our stuff.

    So, it's highly unlikely that there will be a NAM from us for SimCity 2013. Furthermore as stated above, there are more fundamental problems that need to be solved.



    As for regional play: I like the SimCity 4 style region play. It allows you to grow your city virtually endlessly: you had a coherent region, allowing you to create an illusion of a realistic huge sprawling metropolis, giving the game a feel of massiveness (while the SC2013 cities feel crammed and incoherent). But as it spreads, it becomes harder to manage it. Sharing resources between cities was pretty primitive and therefore not used that much, but it was Maxis' intention (even back in 2003) that the region would allow you to specialize cities as residential, commercial and industrial cities. In theory, it was possible, but in reality it gave some unreliable results. The specialisation doesn't work all the time, but I have some times that it works out for me to have a specialised industrial city linked with a RES-COM city.
     
    However, if the region system DID work better in SimCity 4, then region play would've played a bigger role. If they would implement a coherent region in SimCity 2013, where you can place your neighbour links as you like and maybe with a "buy plot"-system to expand your city, then I think a lot less people will complain. Because the small city tiles and the incoherent regions combined were the foremost game breaking aspects for me.

     

    Best,

    Maarten

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    OK, I have a few words to mention regarding the NAM and SimCity 2013:

    • First of all, the entire team has no interest in making a NAM for SimCity 2013. It's not our focus and most of all: we don't even have the game itself! Haljackey is the only NAM Team member who has bought SimCity 2013; the rest doesn't own the game or was disappointed after playing the Beta (like me). For me, the beta convinced me even more to let this game stand there on the shelves...
    • Second, the game's architecture is completely different compared to SimCity 4. This means that all our modding knowledge of SimCity 4 is useless here.
    • Third, if we don't have compatible modeling tools to insert our own models, we can't do our jobs. Considering this game is full 3D based, we need models for our stuff.
    So, it's highly unlikely that there will be a NAM from us for SimCity 2013. Furthermore as stated above, there are more fundamental problems that need to be solved.


    As for regional play: I like the SimCity 4 style region play. It allows you to grow your city virtually endlessly: you had a coherent region, allowing you to create an illusion of a realistic huge sprawling metropolis, giving the game a feel of massiveness (while the SC2013 cities feel crammed and incoherent). But as it spreads, it becomes harder to manage it. Sharing resources between cities was pretty primitive and therefore not used that much, but it was Maxis' intention (even back in 2003) that the region would allow you to specialize cities as residential, commercial and industrial cities. In theory, it was possible, but in reality it gave some unreliable results. The specialisation doesn't work all the time, but I have some times that it works out for me to have a specialised industrial city linked with a RES-COM city.

    However, if the region system DID work better in SimCity 4, then region play would've played a bigger role. If they would implement a coherent region in SimCity 2013, where you can place your neighbour links as you like and maybe with a "buy plot"-system to expand your city, then I think a lot less people will complain. Because the small city tiles and the incoherent regions combined were the foremost game breaking aspects for me.

    Best,

    Maarten

    Would the team develop a NAM if tile sizes were increased and the game was opened up to modders?

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    Probably not, for the three reasons stated above. Maybe somebody else will, but not us...

    One final question, where do you think this game is leading then? Do you think it will be another societies and die off? Or so you think maxis will deliver what the fans want?

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    I think as it currently is, it will not be city simulator most of us have hoped for. SimCity 2013 makes quite little sense when it comes to simulating cities, let alone re-creating real life cities, which is impossible with this game up to this date. It feels like SimCity 2013 doesn't fit in the rest of the series...

     

    However, I don't see it as a city simulator, but more like a Real Time Strategy game. If people start to look at the game in that context, then you could actually say that Maxis did come up with a good game. If only this game wasn't linked to the SimCity franchise (the name has quite a load when it comes to realism and actual simulating reality), I think there would be less complaints that "Maxis/EA fooled us".

     

    Some people may have fun with the game, but for me, who goes for realism, it's not my type of game...

     

    Best,

    Maarten

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    One final question, where do you think this game is leading then? Do you think it will be another societies and die off? Or so you think maxis will deliver what the fans want?

     

     

     

    Once place I will give EA credit is their commitment to patch / update the game. I think they realized how unfinished the game was at launch due to the backlash they received from fans, reviewers and customers. However this content should have already been in the game at launch so much of the praise they are receiving with their updates is unfounded in my opinion.

     

    As far as where the game is leading, that all depends how long EA is committed to patching the game and how long the servers stay up. I'm hoping that the 'SimCity Launch Disaster', along with the fact that EA was named the worst company in the US two years in a row (unheard of) represents a turning point in the company. They could have chose to not patch the game at all as they probably already made a profit from launch sales and pre-orders, for example.

     

    Due to fact that the game is not stable and it's long term future is in jeopardy, we may never see mods like the NAM come to SC13. I hope I am wrong however.

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    Maybe a bit off topic but I have to ask: what do you mean with unrealistic?

     

    Obviously, cities in real life are often the size of entire SC4 regions and the combination of small city tiles and lack of adjecent ones makes SC2013 not look like a real city at all. And this is enough reason not to want to play the game now. But other then that I feel the new game is more realistic in almost every aspect of the game. So what am I missing here?

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    Well, I've seen how the simulator works with people skipping homes and jobs everyday, emergency vehicles getting stuck behind a red light and vehicles not giving them priority, all fire trucks heading to the same fire etc. and on top of that, I have the feeling that the cities all going to look the same due to the bland architecture style and that the scale is quite off here and there (like bus stop signs that are like 8 meters tall, but the interchange right next to the city looks like it's only 150x100m. Seriously?), no matter what road pattern you will use. So that makes me feel...

    But let's not get sidetracked any further ;)

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