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Otaku108

Education & Unskilled Workers, Employment & Running out of Money

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OK. So joined the site a week ago when I got SimCity5 which is my 6th SimCity game (counting Societies), and so far it's what I personally expect out of a SimCity game for the most part, it's still relatively new and as expected (or at least with this era of PC games) it's got it's fair share of bugs and other issues that apparently plagued it's release... I digress

 

Issue#1: Unskilled Workers in almost all of my Industrial. A little background the city has Grade School, High School, Community College, and a University (no department building for last one yet). Population is around 30-35k, A little over 10% unfilled High Jobs, <30% unfilled Medium Jobs, and just under 50% unfilled Low Jobs. So... my question for this problem; would just getting more population and waiting until they've "schooled up" for the jobs fix this issue or am I missing something here? Why are about 80% of my industrial (none of it is more than medium density) always going under because of unskilled workers when my city (specialized in education) has arguably the best education system you can put down. 99.9-100% of my students are enrolled, it's the only city in the region atm too.

 

Issue#2:

So... as you can see from the above, my city has 0% Unemployment. Why are my Sims running out of money? Trend I've seen is they are almost always (couple of exceptions, perhaps just random number generator being mean) the furthest away from the industrial zones (thou not very far at all away, visually speaking). They are still getting jobs however so why are they running out of money? Land wealth is on par to their income bracket since I worked very hard to make sure that I had a good mix of all 3 always trying to keep unfilled jobs below 50% for each and satisfied customers at 100% (they buying too much happiness or something lol?).

 

Any help that can be provided would be awesome, also feel free to add me if you play on NAE2 under the same name here,I never turn down an opportunity to play with people whom are enjoying the same games as I am.

 

 

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In regards to #1, unskilled workers = uneducated workers. It looks like your people are just too smart for the industrial jobs. :) I try to avoid industrial, so I'm unsure how to push it to develop higher tech industrial..

 

In regards to #2.. that one has baffled me as well. :\

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  • Original Poster
  • just plopping community colleges and univercity near industrial raises their tech, I'll see about just waiting for their tech to max out then on that issue anyway

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    It sounds like your industrial city needs more $ jobs than you can provide. You need to switch to a primarily service economy if you want to continue improving your citizens' wealth.

     

    There are three things that lead me to this conclusion:

    1. $$$ jobs rely on $$ jobs which rely on $ jobs.
    2. Homes act as a savings bank for money and happiness. 
      • Money leftover from shopping is stored in the home
      • Money in the home is depleted by rent
      • If the money increases to a certain value then you upgrade, if it is depleted then the residence downgrades.
      • If the money is below a certain threshold before it's nighttime they try to go back to work
    3. Sims don't really care where they go to sleep at night - they go to the closest desirable residence they can find

     

    So let's take a typical scenario, assuming that your population breakdown of $/$$/$$$ is 60%/30%/10% respectively.

    • Shift is over; everyone heads home.
    • 90% of the time the new resident will eat into the savings of any $$$ home; 60% of the time the new resident will eat into the savings of any $$ homes.
    • Less $ residents go to work the next day than the day before; they've got shopping to do (and their home values are increasing).

     

    You were barely hitting 50% of $ jobs at the start of this cycle, but now you're probably even lower. Places probably keep shutting and reconstructing themselves skewing the numbers but the fact is that your town is making so much money that the $$$ citizens are literally turning the $ ones into $$ faster than you can keep up with.

     

    You have a few things you can do:

    1. Start diversifying with more commercial - I believe these create offices that are more favorable to higher wealth populations
    2. Create a town of peons to commute in and prop up your elite
    3. Drive out the $$$ or $$ with higher taxes
    4. Dezone some of your industrial and take the unemployment hit 

     

    You just replicated a first world problem in Sim City. Kind of cool, hunh? 

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  • Original Poster
  • You just replicated a first world problem in Sim City. Kind of cool, hunh? 

    ROFL! Nice, I never thought of it like that :P

     

    I'll see what I can do about adding more commercial but then I start running into unsold goods and piss off the sales side of my sims. I could dezone some Industrial but you already pointed out it's flaw due to unemployment, I might be able to dezone a little... balancing act, one of my strong points xP

     

    Lastly, you were right about my unfilled jobs in the $ field, it's upto 60-65% but... that more looks like it's because more jobs were created than were being unfilled regularly (some commercial zones finally up'd density).

     

    Anyway, thx to both of your replies, if I get the issue fixed I'll post my findings. Any other suggestions are also welcome, I like to test theories anyway.

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  • Original Poster
  • so two things happened tonight while i was working on the problem, most of my industrial got to high tech, I also systematically eliminated a small zone of industry as they became abandoned. I can't say what the long term effects are of it are but as I'm looking at the numbers it's back to being stable enough and not crying for skilled workers (in red, infrequently in yellow however). I don't think more commercial would have helped sadly, when I took a closer look a good chunk of it was also in the yellow for skilled workers (or just workers which can be fixed easily). So adding more jobs to the equation probably would have thrown it into further chaos, or just spread the same problem to my commercial zones. *shrugs*.

     

     

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    OK. So joined the site a week ago when I got SimCity5 which is my 6th SimCity game (counting Societies), and so far it's what I personally expect out of a SimCity game for the most part, it's still relatively new and as expected (or at least with this era of PC games) it's got it's fair share of bugs and other issues that apparently plagued it's release... I digress

     

    Issue#1: Unskilled Workers in almost all of my Industrial. A little background the city has Grade School, High School, Community College, and a University (no department building for last one yet). Population is around 30-35k, A little over 10% unfilled High Jobs, <30% unfilled Medium Jobs, and just under 50% unfilled Low Jobs. So... my question for this problem; would just getting more population and waiting until they've "schooled up" for the jobs fix this issue or am I missing something here? Why are about 80% of my industrial (none of it is more than medium density) always going under because of unskilled workers when my city (specialized in education) has arguably the best education system you can put down. 99.9-100% of my students are enrolled, it's the only city in the region atm too.

     

    Issue#2:

    So... as you can see from the above, my city has 0% Unemployment. Why are my Sims running out of money? Trend I've seen is they are almost always (couple of exceptions, perhaps just random number generator being mean) the furthest away from the industrial zones (thou not very far at all away, visually speaking). They are still getting jobs however so why are they running out of money? Land wealth is on par to their income bracket since I worked very hard to make sure that I had a good mix of all 3 always trying to keep unfilled jobs below 50% for each and satisfied customers at 100% (they buying too much happiness or something lol?).

     

    Any help that can be provided would be awesome, also feel free to add me if you play on NAE2 under the same name here,I never turn down an opportunity to play with people whom are enjoying the same games as I am.

     

    keep in mind that each density has a differing amount of sims that includes Workers shoppers and kids, for example: low density residential has 8 residents at the ratio 4workers, 2shoppers and 2kids where as a medium residential has a total 60 residents but with a different ratio regarding K,S,W

    the same rule apply for shops, factory, utility and tourist attractions. but instead of supplying they demand, shops for example require a mixed $, $$ and $$$ of workers, and require "X" shoppers of a set wealth value, determined by land value, in some cases shops also require tourists.

     

    ^ is one big balancing act if you have 2000 workers 1200 kids and 1500 shoppers then you need to accommodate for all of their needs, this gets tricky because each wealth and density range have vastly differing ratio requirments, balancing all of that with utility which also require varying wealth workers isn't as easy as it might seem, it starts very easy but once u start to have the slightest traffic issues (in large citys) everything gos to crap.

     

    Schools do not provide wealth or have any impact on it, however they do help prevent fire, crime, and health issues, also i think they provide happiness each day the kids return home. the only passive bonus of colleges and university is +tech. 1 high school in a low pop city will provide 4 1/2 star education. (100 % enrollment).

     

     

    Also i am not so sure that a worker working at a $$$ job will bring home a $$$ pay packet to a $ home - my assumption would be, a simple flag "did you successful go to work today" not where did you work and much did you earn because the earned amount would be determined by the house they returned to... yes this is an assumption but so is the post assuming it works in a game breaking way.

     

    hopefully that ^ helps

     

    as for Issue#2

    on issue 1 you say "A little over 10% unfilled High Jobs, <30% unfilled Medium Jobs, and just under 50% unfilled Low Jobs."

    so if you have a demand for 10%, 30%, 50%. then you need more workers of each bracket... there is no unemployment because you are providing to many jobs...

    i have little insight as to why your sims are running out of money, at a guess you can fix it via taxes or adding a basic park to the near by zone. make sure it adds +happiness to each house as u place it, if it misses even 1 then that house will go shopping instead thus spent money, with higher than 8% taxes (low wealth) this will result in we are broke. a note to remember parks also take workers o.O

     

     

    well this took ages to write so i really hope it helps atleased someone

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    In regards to #1, unskilled workers = uneducated workers. It looks like your people are just too smart for the industrial jobs.

     i somehow missed this, but it has gotten me cruiouse

     

    with a high school Thus zero tech i have no issues with skilled\unskilled workers. One of my city's in a region by its self has a tiny pop of 30k and 100% enrollment...  i am going to guess skilled \ unskilled dont become a problem when adding a college and or university, and the only way i can think to get around this is by keeping a high school or grade school with a small pocket of unskilled workers across the map from any college or university... the only way i can think to "FIX" an already existing issue along theses lines would be to demolish 1/2 of the city :/ because of bad city planning. (maybe there is a reason to use more than 1 school type after all?)

    QUICK QUESTION. HOW THE SHIZ DO YOU INCREASE CLASSROOM SIZE IN UNIVERSITIES?! I'm stuck at 800 classroom size but i need a thousand students to attend for an upgrade..

     

    add a dorm - from memory each one has a capacity to teach and provide 1000 more students.. to provide for already existing students in your city you would need to add a specialist department "cant remember what they are called" but basically any addon will help choose the best suits your citys plan.

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    Also i am not so sure that a worker working at a $$$ job will bring home a $$$ pay packet to a $ home - my assumption would be, a simple flag "did you successful go to work today" not where did you work and much did you earn because the earned amount would be determined by the house they returned to... yes this is an assumption but so is the post assuming it works in a game breaking way.

    For the record, I don't consider this to be game breaking. On the contrary it is one of the things I enjoy about the agent based system. It works on a macro level, the mechanics are easy to understand, and it provides dynamic behavior and balance to the game.

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    Issue#2:

    So... as you can see from the above, my city has 0% Unemployment. Why are my Sims running out of money? Trend I've seen is they are almost always (couple of exceptions, perhaps just random number generator being mean) the furthest away from the industrial zones (thou not very far at all away, visually speaking). They are still getting jobs however so why are they running out of money? Land wealth is on par to their income bracket since I worked very hard to make sure that I had a good mix of all 3 always trying to keep unfilled jobs below 50% for each and satisfied customers at 100% (they buying too much happiness or something lol?).

     

    In my experience people 'run out of money' when they are trying to get to work, but are unable to get their either do to high traffic or a long commute, so they aren't actually able to earn any money even though they are technically employed.

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    Issue#2:

    So... as you can see from the above, my city has 0% Unemployment. Why are my Sims running out of money? Trend I've seen is they are almost always (couple of exceptions, perhaps just random number generator being mean) the furthest away from the industrial zones (thou not very far at all away, visually speaking). They are still getting jobs however so why are they running out of money? Land wealth is on par to their income bracket since I worked very hard to make sure that I had a good mix of all 3 always trying to keep unfilled jobs below 50% for each and satisfied customers at 100% (they buying too much happiness or something lol?).

    In my experience people 'run out of money' when they are trying to get to work, but are unable to get their either do to high traffic or a long commute, so they aren't actually able to earn any money even though they are technically employed.

    This is correct. The population chart which show how many workers, jobs, shoppers, and goods you have per class is only a count of the maximum possible of each in your city. It is NOT a running total of how many Sims actually made it to work that day or bought goods that day. You need to watch the population data layer to see if the homes having money problems are actually even leaving their homes to find work and then if they are making it to work and back.

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  • Original Poster
  • man, that's a lot of replies, too many to really respond to effectively, so really, I wana at least thank everyone that's replied so far.

     

    Here's some SS to help to inform everyone at least a little better. Please forgive me, I don't know how to do thumbnails so you all get the full sized pics :P

    Spark_2013-03-26_22-30-14_zps91eee37b.jpSpark_2013-03-26_22-30-02_zps0d821a91.jpSpark_2013-03-26_22-29-45_zps7d50ed67.jp

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  • Original Poster
  • I dunno why that center low $ building isn't getting any money, it's always that one too. it also like to swap with the smaller density buildings just a couple blocks to the left. so sometimes it's the one that runs out of money and goes red happiness, then sometimes it's the smaller density one.

     

    My traffic isn't heavy, meaning the way I have the roads setup, even if it's slow it flows constantly. there's never a traffic jam in the NY sense. I'm nearly at 85% approval rating, my tax rate is 7/7/9% R/C/I, not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. Promotes growth without destroying my simolians/hr.

     

    I also have my recycling center exporting all the alloys it can make, so nice little bonus "free" simolians there. I still like the idea that my sims are upgrading too quickly xP but I don't think that's actually the case here.

     

    If anyone wants more info don't hesistate to ask... best I can figure is the sims are glitching out on a corner (seen a fire truck do this in the same area, going in circles next to a burning building)

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    Ok, first of all, your Grade School is redundant with your High School. This version of Simcity does not track the individual ages of Sim kids, so you are better off just bulldozing the Grade School(s) and expanding the High School to accomodate all of the kids (High School is more effective and cheaper on a per-student basis than Grade School).

     

    The same goes for the Community College vs. the University. You can just add dormitories to your University in order to expand its capacity, and then bulldoze the Community College. In fact, you should also do this because the University allows you to upgrade it with additional schools (Law, Engineering, Science, etc.) based on how many students attend it, so it is in your interest to move all of those Community College students over to the University.

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    Ok, first of all, your Grade School is redundant with your High School. This version of Simcity does not track the individual ages of Sim kids, so you are better off just bulldozing the Grade School(s) and expanding the High School to accomodate all of the kids (High School is more effective and cheaper on a per-student basis than Grade School).

     

    The same goes for the Community College vs. the University. You can just add dormitories to your University in order to expand its capacity, and then bulldoze the Community College. In fact, you should also do this because the University allows you to upgrade it with additional schools (Law, Engineering, Science, etc.) based on how many students attend it, so it is in your interest to move all of those Community College students over to the University.

    I found that a great caution is required when upgrading from college to university. The reason is that, if your education level of the city is not high enough, by upgrading to university, your factories will upgrade to high tech, but you can't supply skilled workers yet (increasing education level takes time, but upgrading factories to high tech is pretty much instant). So you may end up with angry I because there's no skilled workers, and angry R because there's no job they can do.

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    I dunno why that center low $ building isn't getting any money, it's always that one too. it also like to swap with the smaller density buildings just a couple blocks to the left. so sometimes it's the one that runs out of money and goes red happiness, then sometimes it's the smaller density one.

     

    My traffic isn't heavy, meaning the way I have the roads setup, even if it's slow it flows constantly. there's never a traffic jam in the NY sense. I'm nearly at 85% approval rating, my tax rate is 7/7/9% R/C/I, not horrible by any stretch of the imagination. Promotes growth without destroying my simolians/hr.

     

    I also have my recycling center exporting all the alloys it can make, so nice little bonus "free" simolians there. I still like the idea that my sims are upgrading too quickly xP but I don't think that's actually the case here.

     

    If anyone wants more info don't hesistate to ask... best I can figure is the sims are glitching out on a corner (seen a fire truck do this in the same area, going in circles next to a burning building)

    On a given morning try to follow a sim worker who lives in the building to their job. My guess is that you'll probably find out that a lot of the residents who live in that building never actually make it to work, even if you don't have traffic issues. Seeing that the residential building is in the corner of the map only helps to make the case that the residents in that building never make it anywhere.

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    On a given morning try to follow a sim worker who lives in the building to their job. My guess is that you'll probably find out that a lot of the residents who live in that building never actually make it to work, even if you don't have traffic issues. Seeing that the residential building is in the corner of the map only helps to make the case that the residents in that building never make it anywhere.

    you could also try placing 1 low density shop in that area, personally i would see how it went, however i suspect that it may ruin traffic flow because all the sims within X radius might attempt to work there before setting out to their usual locations. still might be worth a shot. "side\direction of road travel matters alot"... if it fails a side affect could also be, being able to pinpoint if its related to the sims not making it to work, a bit of a guess but if this was the case i would expect to see even more sims having money issues because they wasted to much time traveling to the closer shop that already had workers. just a thought

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  • Original Poster
  • Again, I wana thank everyone that took the time to read and post their own findings and information they've gleaned so far. Seriously, it's a major help. Thank you.

    So many information here and I didn't read it all, but I think this may be useful.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aox0IWxZalS2dGN0N2J6aUVFRVJwU21DeDVhbnBVdHc#gid=1
    It basically tells how many jobs at which tier each building provides.

    That, is, awesome. Information for a min/max balancing nut like myself... love it. bookmarked and will be used heavily ;)

     

    Ok, first of all, your Grade School is redundant with your High School. This version of Simcity does not track the individual ages of Sim kids, so you are better off just bulldozing the Grade School(s) and expanding the High School to accomodate all of the kids (High School is more effective and cheaper on a per-student basis than Grade School).

     

    The same goes for the Community College vs. the University. You can just add dormitories to your University in order to expand its capacity, and then bulldoze the Community College. In fact, you should also do this because the University allows you to upgrade it with additional schools (Law, Engineering, Science, etc.) based on how many students attend it, so it is in your interest to move all of those Community College students over to the University.

    That I didn't know... All I knew for sure is that HS level education increases a lot of base stats to sims (IE health, crime, recycling, etc) and that both the community college and the university increases tech level (knew that much at least lol). I didn't realize they didn't complement each other.

     

    Ok, first of all, your Grade School is redundant with your High School. This version of Simcity does not track the individual ages of Sim kids, so you are better off just bulldozing the Grade School(s) and expanding the High School to accomodate all of the kids (High School is more effective and cheaper on a per-student basis than Grade School).

     

    The same goes for the Community College vs. the University. You can just add dormitories to your University in order to expand its capacity, and then bulldoze the Community College. In fact, you should also do this because the University allows you to upgrade it with additional schools (Law, Engineering, Science, etc.) based on how many students attend it, so it is in your interest to move all of those Community College students over to the University.

    I found that a great caution is required when upgrading from college to university. The reason is that, if your education level of the city is not high enough, by upgrading to university, your factories will upgrade to high tech, but you can't supply skilled workers yet (increasing education level takes time, but upgrading factories to high tech is pretty much instant). So you may end up with angry I because there's no skilled workers, and angry R because there's no job they can do.

    This is the exact problem I'm running into now, Mid Tech Industrial is doing awesome but you can't force it to stop there (or at least I haven't figured out how) it continues to upgrade itself (depending on profits I think) to High Tech Industrial. Then I see the problem you are talking about, unskilled workers. Now you state that it takes a while for the sims to get educated up to the level that is needed... my question then, "how much time?"

     

    Either way I'm guessing once I implement Ijuin's suggestions of removing the redundancy in my schools that'll increase the students in my University which in turn will increase the education level to the majority of the students, and eventually filling said jobs... hopefully.

     

    Now, onto this running out of money issue... I still haven't figured it out, I will follow the sims living in it today and see where they are going. I'm with you all on that it's most likely that they aren't getting to jobs in time to make enough money and get back home, I just can't figure out why, there are way more jobs than sims so they should have very little issues getting to the jobs.

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