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gviper

Where to go now?

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I am at a point of information overload. I have come back to SC4 and am trying to get a region up and going. I notice in my initial city (near 20k) that R$$$ are trying to overtake, along with I-HT, even though the city EQ isn't very high. I increased the tax rate a bit and now demand across the board has tanked (except for across the board low wealth). I have read many threads and looked at some mods, I have read of the awesomeness of NAM but am trying to avoid it because it seems that it may cause problems with other mods and vice versa, and it also may not remedy the problem. I'd like to stay away from any RCI mods and develop the region naturally. I know nothing is perfect but some pointers and opinions would be welcomed.

 

 

Thanks!

 

*I only have PAM mod installed and I am not seeking to keep any particular type of development out of my cities as I develop them, it just seems bizarre that high wealth wants in so early on and in places it really shouldn't be.

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There are very few mods that conflict with the NAM, except for other versions of the NAM and pretty much most traffic mods, so you're pretty much OK with installing the NAM.

A list of incompatible items that you can't run simultaneously with the NAM itself:

- Past versions of the NAM

- The traffic simulator(s) that comes with the SPAM or the CAM (the two are demand/growth stage mods, and probably not recommend for you at this point)

- Other traffic simulators

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I have read of the awesomeness of NAM but am trying to avoid it because it seems that it may cause problems with other mods and vice versa, and it also may not remedy the problem.

 

Well, there's a reason people describe the NAM as "awesome".  It raises the game to a completely new level.  Yes, it does conflict with a few older mods, but these aren't necessary with the NAM, and the latest version of the NAM uninstalls them automatically.

 

Oh Ganaram, for the second time in two days you've beat me by a few seconds.  Anyway, let me add to your conflicting mods list obsolete traffic data views.

 

As for developing the region "naturally", this merely means with all the bugs in the original version of the game.  The NAM has fixed some of the worst ones, most notably the broken behavior of the original traffic simulator, which causes all sorts of problems for larger cities.  There is nothing "unnatural" about the NAM.  If you use it, it will feel like a very natural extension of the original game.

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I highly recommend installing the NAM.  It will make the traffic in your cities behave much more realistically.  The programmers of the NAM have done an excellent job of providing a MOD that greatly improves the game.

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  • Original Poster
  • I'll give it a shot thanks everyone! Anyone know why I am seeing high wealth residents, commerce and industry at a stage of the city that I shouldn't see it where it is... 8-(

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    Anyone know why I am seeing high wealth residents, commerce and industry at a stage of the city that I shouldn't see it where it is...

    It's likely tied in with how zoning works with the game. Oftentimes, the game might build high-rises too early, so instead of a small apartment complex, you may get a tower in the wrong spot.

    It may be a mismash of both poor zoning choices and the game derping up in general, but this is where my knowledge of SC4 reaches a limit...

    Who to recommend to you for help: You'll often see a Moose (Nonny Moose) trotting around, and the moderators will also help.


      Edited by Ganaram Inukshuk  

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    I get that too if I zone too high density too soon.  Don't want tall buildings?  Don't zone high density.  I usually grow my cities out first, the advisors always telling me I need to build more commercial office....Yeah, I ignore that.  "City spread means trouble ahead."  Yeah, I ignore that too.  I usually grow out and spread out, at an appointed time, I will pick a spot and zone it high desnity, everything there gets zoned high density, residential commercieal, industrial, and THAT becomes a downtown area.  If it does not grow into sky scrapers instantly, I destroy a bunch of stuff around it to create demand and plant a bunch of parks,  not much can stop skyscarapers from growing if you do that.

     

    Something else that can cuase your stage level to increase so that you get high rises too early is connecting your city to other tiles that have decent populations.  Your growth stage is related to the totals in your entire region.  If you have multiple cties on multiple tiles and they are connected ins ome way that will increase your stage level for the map you are on and cause large buildings to grow prematurely.

     

    BTW, If I never downloaded any mods I would STILL get the NAM.  I have hundreds of mods running in my plugins folder, pretty much everything out there, no issues.  It does take some getting used to though, it has taken me months to get to where I have all the dependencies I need for all the different lots and such and then to get anfile folder organization thing going on and then to know where all the mods I want are(both at Simtropolis(STEX) AND SC4Devotion(LEX)), I just did a fresh install, and it has taken me two weeks of downloading and installing mods to get all that I have.  The game looks like it released like just yesterday with all these mods installed.

     

    For a green lowdensity residential area I suggest Mattb325's residentials from SC4Devotion(all of them), CP's 19th century residential pack.

    To give your commercial areas massive variety in early stages I would suggest Jmyers', Madhatter's and simgoobers commercials(every last one from all three of them).

    To liven up your industrial area I would run either Twrecks' Industrial revolution mod(IRM) OR paengs' industrial facelift(I prefer the IRM because it has green spaces and trees and more logical parking).  I also downloaded like every single industrial lot/bat I could find on top of all that for greater variety.

     

    To increase the greeness of your residential nieghborhoods I would also suggest getting Either paengs' or Peg's street side mod, this will bring automatic trees tot he side of your streets so when your maxis lots grow they do not look so plain.  I also got the avenue tree mod as well but I could live without that one.

     

    NAM NAM NAM NAM NAM, I can't stress it enough, even though NAM 31 is quite buggy still, I still recomend it, it comes with the network widening mod(NAM), the rail addon mod(RAM), the street addon mod(SAM), the bridge leveler, additional bridges, the list goes on and on, the new NAM 31 replaces about a  billion(exagerrated) downloads and improves gameplay all throughout the game from the top down and the bottom up.

     

    It took me forever to learn how to use all those.  There are STILL things I don't know how to use very well, like the pond kit, the the water front kits, and much more.

     

    Sorry, I get carried away sometimes.  Goodluck.

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    I'll give it a shot thanks everyone! Anyone know why I am seeing high wealth residents, commerce and industry at a stage of the city that I shouldn't see it where it is... 8-(

    What do you mean by a stage where you should not see high wealth? Don't you mean you shouldn't see high density? In that case I don't have an answer but I have seen high density R$ develop with a city population of about 18.000 sims. Aren't they supposed to develop at a population of 26.000? That's a general question for the community.

    To answer your question, wealth levels $-$$-$$$ respond to demand. Decent ground schools, health care and parks are usually enough to create a demand for R$$$ but this demand can be kept in check by monitoring taxes (raising taxes for higher wealth levels before they move in). I can't remember if they require water supply but you'll often find that their early entrance is difficult to maintain as their general demands are hard to fund with a limited tax base.

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    All I can tell you is that pretty much all mansions need water. No water, no mansions.

    Once again, it's also a matter of zone management, and additionally, while desirability attracts certain occupants, taxes are still the number-one deterrent. Maximum taxes (20%) on a specific occupant (dirty industry, for example) will keep all development from developing.

    NAM NAM NAM NAM NAM, I can't stress it enough, even though NAM 31 is quite buggy still, I still recomend it, it comes with the network widening mod(NAM), the rail addon mod(RAM), the street addon mod(SAM), the bridge leveler, additional bridges, the list goes on and on, the new NAM 31 replaces about a  billion(exagerrated) downloads and improves gameplay all throughout the game from the top down and the bottom up.

    For those playing at home, a lot of the bug reports we've been getting have pretty much been resolved. No ETA on a release of NAM 31.1. (Best to leave it that way, if you know what I mean.)

    Oh and most of the bugs are RHW. If you don't wanna use RHW, or would like to hold off on RHW, then yes, NAM 31.

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    Hnnnn--nn.  It is I the Moose.

     

    Your post shows symptoms of too much zoning at the start of a city.  Also, is your game current (1,1,640 or 1,1,641)?

     

    To start a city and keep it under control, you should not layout a lot of roads and zoning.  Run in turtle mode.  Pick a likely spot and put in a couple of crossed streets, not very long (about 15 grids is about right).  At this crossroads, put in a clean power plant (windmill) and a water source (water tower)  {I have other things, but that's another story.}

     

    Now, zone about half a dozen 2 x 1 low density commercial and be sure they have water.  They should start growing pretty quickly.  When you have some of them completely built, lay in about twice the number of 2 x 1 low density residential.  You might have to add some side streets to make this happen.  Keep watering everyone.  If you don't water the building choice is limited.

     

    Now, continue in this way until you make your "nut", that is income exceeds expenses, also known as being in the black.  Don't rush it. 

     

    You can enhance your village by adding four or five farms, again making sure they are on municipal water.  Maxis farms will pollute your water so don't put them anywhere near your water tower or it will be shut down.  You might need to earn enough income to afford a water purification plant.  Keep an eye on your pollution displays.  Parks, trees and cemeteries are air pollution fighters.

     

    If you go in the red add more residential.  Check your demand graph.  There is nothing wrong with 2 x 1 residential of any density.  Blocks of these prevent those 4 x 4 mansions (R$$$).

     

    When you are making a good profit, extend a road over the edge of the city to create a neighbour connection.  This edge is a good place for a bigger power plant and some industry.  Zone medium density only for I-D and I-M.  When your city is more than four years old, set the I-D tax to 20%.  This invites any I-D to leave (slowly) and encourages I-M to replace it.  You will need more water supplies but don't put them too close to the industrial area or they will be shut down by the pollution.  Make sure everything is watered.

     

    Best place for medium density commercial (2 x 1, 2 x 2) is on the borders of the industrial pod, then you can put residential in behind this to get your workers.  Stick to blocks of 2 x 1 low density for residential.

     

    By the way, all this pretty much requires hand zoning.  The CTRL key is your friend.  It is slow, methodical, and you should always increase residential to stay in the black.  Don't rush!

     

    Add civic services as you deem needed.  Industrial will need a fire station, and a police station or two never hurts.  Do not adjust the funding of these.  Schools and hospitals are another matter.  Adjust the funding on these to just more than the occupancy, and adjust the bus/ambulance budgets to only include populated areas (residential only).

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    Moose as usual is indeed giving excellent advice. It is something many SC enthusiasts forget: take your time and take it slow.

    Now here's another thing.

    I may have failed to notice it in all the years of reading and studying  :yes: the manuals and forums, but 

    as far as I know, no one has ever mentioned the following:

    To have a close-to-real-life gaming experience, play in zoom mode 4 or 5 !

    Most people play in zoom level 3, which is fine if you want to lay tracks or roads, or level 4 if you want to have some kind of map (over)view...

    but in real life, when you walk or drive around a city - all you actually see are close shots (to use a movie term). Which btw is also the default UDI

    It's not like we live in a bell tower with a view that stretches for miles... And cities don't really zone whole blocks of 137 houses at the time. (I know - I'm exaggerating a teeny bit. :D )

    Using closer zoom-levels has one enormous advantage: You will be drawn much more to the detail of the surroundings and one will pay a lot more attention to dressing up the place.

    For example: One empty tile in zoom 5 will stand out like a pair of pliers on a pig and a simple Mayor's Statue will seem totally out of place in between a couple of housing blocks. One will automatically feel the need for a park or a trail leading to this statue -definitely, the need for open space around it will become much more obvious. 

    Anyway I may have ignited a new spark with this out-of-the-box approach, but it has helped me many times developing my cities.

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    Good point.  I generally play in Zoom level 4.  I only back off if I am doing something over a large area like laying tracks.  I use level 5 when laying puzzle pieces and I always take saves before I start with them, and if I am doing something extensive, I may save part way along.  I always save if I do something fancy.

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    Correction:

    Most people play in zoom level 3, which is fine if you want to lay tracks or roads, or level 4 if you want to have some kind of map (over)view...

    Should read:

    Most people play in zoom level 3, which is fine if you want to lay tracks or roads, or level 2 if you want to have some kind of map (over)view...

    Sorry

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