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ryandrums

Getting "no job" zots? IDK why

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hi, first post, I guess ill start it with a complaint XD

http://s896.beta.pho...3729PM.png.html

^

| this is the situation with most of the no job buildings in my city. I'm not sure what's wrong. When i look at the traffic grid the volume is all green, and other buildings with a similar commute distance have short commute times.

So is this a glitch? Am i missing something? Is it because i'm using one way roads? I thought that the road system you see in the screenshot would work really well, and it has until now.

(PS I edited the arrows in because for some reason the arrows weren't there after i took the screenshot. They were green before, one was purple)

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If you don't have any problem with the commute time but you still have the unemployment problem, then the reason of that problem is the number of jobs in your city is less than 1/2 of your city's population. However, if the number of jobs in your city is more than the number of population, then your neighbor cities might become your problem.

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It's not joblessness, but more related to overbuilding and the eternal commuter bug.

Neither of these apply to this situation, although it's hard to tell exactly what the problem is.

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  • Original Poster
  • I'm not sure

    It's not joblessness, but more related to overbuilding and the eternal commuter bug.

    Just google it.

    EDIT: http://sc4devotion.c...43098#msg143098

    I'm not sure if it's the eternal commuter bug, what you see in the picture is pretty much 4/5 of the city, and there are no neighboring cities.

    Not all jobs are equal. The jobs must match the Sims skills and desires. Sims won't work if the kind of job they want is not available.

    all these buildings are low wealth and the jobs are too.. is it because the dirty industry doesnt match their skills?

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    I'm not generally a fan of one-way roads (unless used for short distances in downtown areas to alleviate congestion), because I think they make the Sims go out of their way to get to their destination - which, naturally, adds to commute times/distances. Even if a Sim has a short commute to work with one-way roads, it's bound to be longer on the way back home...and, much like in real life, people dislike that just as much as a long commute to work.

    Look at these screenshots which illustrate my point. In each screenshot, the blue box represents where the Sim lives, and the yellow box is where they work. Also in each screenshot, the red arrows are the route the Sim has to take to get to work, and the white arrows are the route home.

    Look at the first screenshot, which contains alternating one-way roads, and note the commute. Then compare that commute to the second screenshot, which are all regular two-way roads.

    onewayrds.jpg

    twowayrds.jpg

    See how much shorter the commute is when you use regular two-way roads?

    On top of that, something you'll want to remember is that R$ Sims usually prefer to take mass transit, such as subways, light rail, and buses. Do you have any of those stations in your R$ zones where you see no-job zots?

    Try two-way roads, combined with bus and subway stations, and you may start seeing those no-job zots disappear. Good luck!

    P.S. As Fatherted noted, make sure you install the NAM. It will help with the commute routes and times.

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    On top of that, something you'll want to remember is that R$ Sims usually prefer to take mass transit, such as subways, light rail, and buses.

    Although this is true, this is only a preference, not a requirement, and if there is no mass transit, Sims will simply drive. The lack of mass transit in and of itself will not cause the "no jobs" zots.

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    If you have schools, the problem may be that some of the Sims are overeducated for R$ jobs and you need to start laying down some C$$ and C$$$ spaces. An R$$ Sim won't work on farms or dirty industry, nor as a production line worker in IM either. He wants an office job.

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    On top of that, something you'll want to remember is that R$ Sims usually prefer to take mass transit, such as subways, light rail, and buses.

    Although this is true, this is only a preference, not a requirement, and if there is no mass transit, Sims will simply drive. The lack of mass transit in and of itself will not cause the "no jobs" zots.

    That's what I said...they prefer to take mass transit. I highlighted the word in my post you quoted.

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    If you have schools, the problem may be that some of the Sims are overeducated for R$ jobs and you need to start laying down some C$$ and C$$$ spaces. An R$$ Sim won't work on farms or dirty industry, nor as a production line worker in IM either. He wants an office job.

    See, I dont understand that. How can zone for C$$ and C$$$ when I can only control the density?

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    If you have schools, the problem may be that some of the Sims are overeducated for R$ jobs and you need to start laying down some C$$ and C$$$ spaces. An R$$ Sim won't work on farms or dirty industry, nor as a production line worker in IM either. He wants an office job.

    See, I dont understand that. How can zone for C$$ and C$$$ when I can only control the density?

    It's related to desirability. No, you can't zone by wealth - only by density. But certain wealth levels will only develop in the right conditions, regardless of density. For instance, if you place a high-density residential zone right next to a medium-density industrial zone where you're most likely to find dirty industry growing, then the residential zone will generally develop into a low wealth R$ zone full of apartment buildings and mobile-home parks.

    The same high-density residential zone placed away from industry, and in/close to a pollution-free environment near parks, museums, libraries, water, and high-density commercial zones will most likely turn into a high-wealth R$$$ zone.

    Try to think about where you would find the different wealth levels in a real city. What kinds of environment do you think would produce C$$ and C$$$ zones? What would influence their growth? What would make a residential neighborhood fill up with high-density, high-wealth condo towers - and where would you most likely find low-density suburbs and single-family mansions? Maybe this will help a little bit: http://strategywiki....ning_and_Demand

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    If you have schools, the problem may be that some of the Sims are overeducated for R$ jobs and you need to start laying down some C$$ and C$$$ spaces. An R$$ Sim won't work on farms or dirty industry, nor as a production line worker in IM either. He wants an office job.

    See, I dont understand that. How can zone for C$$ and C$$$ when I can only control the density?

    Maybe my short-hand confuses you. I use C$$ for "medium density commercial" and C$$$ for "high density commercial". Not to be confused with wealth, since the game has no direct controls for this. Wealth classes are controlled by the environmental factors.

    If you think this is confusing, try some higher mathematics. If you ask a physicist he'll tell you that i = (-1)0.5 while an engineer will tell you that i is for current, and j is the square root of -1. This is the most minor instance of the multiple use of symbols.

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  • Original Poster
  • Hey guys thanks for all the help

    I do have NAM, and yeah the one way roads were alternating lol. The thing i dont understand is that a building right next to one with a long commute time has a short commute time, and when i see where they work they travel pretty much the same distance in the morning and evening! And the traffic levels are good on both roads!

    But I think it might have been something to do with mass transit?? I put bus stops on every block and the job zots went away. Still confusing so idk.

    Also, i sort of use a different system for my one way roads. I only made one way roads leading from the houses to the jobs, and vice versa, and I made the cross streets roads, as you can see in the picture. That way the sims can go whichever way they want to go on the roads to get to the appropriate one way road, which will lead them pretty much directly to their job.

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    Yeah, the game can be confusing. Sometimes what seems to work in one situation doesn't work in another. Maybe that one Sim who had a short commute lived next to a lazy neighbor. HA! Actually, I wonder...have you enabled the carpooling ordinance? I wonder if maybe the Sim with the short commute was carpooling with the one who had a long commute, and now that you have bus stops in place, they are no longer carpooling together...? I mean, I know that's probably out in left field, but just a thought. It probably makes more sense in my head than it does in text. Anyway, I'm glad the no-jobs zots are gone.

    Happy gaming!

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  • Original Poster
  • Yeah, the game can be confusing. Sometimes what seems to work in one situation doesn't work in another. Maybe that one Sim who had a short commute lived next to a lazy neighbor. HA! Actually, I wonder...have you enabled the carpooling ordinance? I wonder if maybe the Sim with the short commute was carpooling with the one who had a long commute, and now that you have bus stops in place, they are no longer carpooling together...? I mean, I know that's probably out in left field, but just a thought. It probably makes more sense in my head than it does in text. Anyway, I'm glad the no-jobs zots are gone.

    Happy gaming!

    haha that idea idea would probably work but no i didnt have carpooling on

    and thanks!

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    It's best to alternate directions when using one way roads. That's the way that cities do it IRL; it shortens the distance that commuters have to travel in order to double back. I find that trying to "optimize" my transportation system tends to lengthen commute times and increase congestion. Make sure that there is a complete loop from each residence to a workplace. Additionally, it is better to use bidirectional networks whenever possible. If the transportation situation is kosher, and you are using the NAM, then your problem is merely that there are not enough jobs in your city (in this case, commute time is infinite, because the Sims drive around all day looking for work and find none). Increasing industrial and commercial development will make these zots disappear.

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    The problem I always get is when I rezone my low density residental zones into mid density I always get no-job zots all around my city almost immediately and there's very low demand for any industrial or commercial so there's little I can do about it. And looking at the data views for the most part it's not a traffic problem.

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    It is all a matter of striving for balance. There are so many variables it is nearly impossible to keep everyone in an equally disgruntled state. This game is really an exercise in problem solving, and if you don't inadvertently create a problem to solve, the game will create one for you.

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    There is a number of reasons thar can be causing no-job zots:

    - Improperly connected zones (making several routes impossible), eg one-way roads without a return path, highways with enter- or exit-only ramps etc.

    - Traffic (commute time exceeding the set threshold). The graph is not much of a help, as it shows the average commute time, not commute time for the buildings affected. You need to provide faster routes.

    - Not enough jobs. In such a case you should also have negative R demand (for the wealth level in question). If so, you need to provide more jobs.

    - R demand "extrapolated" from another city. If the injected R demand has caused R development, but there's no way to reach those jobs (ie commute to another city), this will be causing no-job zots.

    - Uneven tax levels. If you have lowered the R taxes, you will get more R demand, and therefore R development, but there may be no jobs available. There's a lot of discussion about taxes, but my suggestion is just set all taxes to the for your city size (9% for a city of up to 150000), reduced tax rates cause strange effects.

    - Having inaccessible jobs. A power plant (of the ones that provide jobs, not the windmills) not connected to the R area can be causing no-job zots. Also "double" networks like avenues, if not properly connected, or zones served by one-way roads with no way to return can cause no job zots too. I remember I had a CO$$ with 20 jobs served by an avenue leading to the border. It caused no-job zots throughout my R$$ area! Then I put a short section of street, thus providing a return path, and the problem was solved immediately! Take a look

    You may also find useful.

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    Maybe my short-hand confuses you. I use C$$ for "medium density commercial" and C$$$ for "high density commercial". Not to be confused with wealth, since the game has no direct controls for this. Wealth classes are controlled by the environmental factors.

    But this is not how these symbols are used in the game. Any wealth level can grow in any density zone, so for example, you can have low-density R§§§ mansions or high-density R§§§ skyscrapers. From the Prima Guide (p. 127):

    Wealth: Indicates the developer type of the structure (see Chapter 7) and is represented by a number of § signs (§=low, §§=medium, §§§=high). For Residential and Commercial structures, if the wealth indicator contains any grayed-out § signs, it means that the structure is of one wealth level but (due to a downturn in circumstances) its current inhabitants are of a lower level. In the case of most Industry, buildings don't change wealth levels (§=ID, §§=IM, §§§=IHT).

    Note though, that even with industry, these different wealth levels can all appear in the same zone type.

    This definition of wealth levels and their symbolic representation can be found not only in the Prima guide, but throughout the internals of the game.

    If you think this is confusing, try some higher mathematics. If you ask a physicist he'll tell you that i = (-1)0.5 while an engineer will tell you that i is for current, and j is the square root of -1. This is the most minor instance of the multiple use of symbols.

    Yes, but these examples are of widespread conventions. There is no contrary widespread convention in SC4, and to avoid confusion, it's best to use '§' to represent wealth level, as the game and its documentation does.

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